American Curriculum Mixed With Thai

[t36ony]

Hi

A friend of mine was thinking of taking his daughter to Saint John Mary's International School in Saraburi. Even though he has to be in Thailand, he wants her to study GCSE and A level to give her the best chance for any University around the world but namely England. He also appreciates that in England they have 'Key Stages' of learning which makes sure each student is up to the level for that year. I told him Saint John Mary have an American curriculum but i think its mixed with Thai. I was wondering though, does Saint John Mary or any other of these curriculums just use some of the American books and do not really follow the American curriculum and end up just doing enough just to pass Thai Ministry of Education standards. It easy to say little Johny got 95% in a test and be content in an International school but if he took the same school year test in England he would only get 55%. Are some of these International school fooling the parents to think they are regemently following the same American or English standards? I guess some of it has to do with the teachers. If you have an American or English teacher who taught in their respective countries you could kind of guarentee they do the same here???

Cheers for any idea!!

[vont]

that you would have to personally visit each of those mentioned schools, to ascertain for your own satisfaction that, if any, would measure up.

it is my observation that qualified, certified and practising teachers from native speaking countries are far and few in between, in thailand.

just how could a farang school in thailand claim educational quality equivalency with homeland schools.... is beyond me, really....

however, on the other hand, most thai students in thailand schools are studying a lot harder and longer hours than their overseas contemporaries.

one would never see students in primary grades carrying backpack full of school materials and what not.... to school every day.... in our own countries, would we?

ahhh yes, most educated farang would argue that thai students are mostly on their trip to rote memorization.... unmatched with our own homeland education.... L O L

we just can't help it, can we? we are always winners no matter where we are.... are we not?....

if and when, which is rarely, we can not win intellectually, we'll just have to introduce you to our military arsenals....

Edited June 10, 2011 by vont

[lomatopo]

From their website, under high-school academic program....

Welcome to Saint John Mary International School, "A Smart and Good School".

'Nuff said.

Seriously, your friend needs to do a bit more research, and visit the schools. A true International school might be the best option?

There have been quite a few great threads here over the years, maybe have a look through some of those to narrow the field?

[Kilgore Trout]

just how could a farang school in thailand claim educational quality equivalency with homeland schools.... is beyond me, really....

Err, I think you mean "Western school, or schools with a Western curriculum" .......

Anyway, simple; accreditation. I take it you have not heard of WASC, CIS, NEASC etc.?

Then the question is; is the school accredited?

[jonclark]

just how could a farang school in thailand claim educational quality equivalency with homeland schools.... is beyond me, really....

Err, I think you mean "Western school, or schools with a Western curriculum" .......

Anyway, simple; accreditation. I take it you have not heard of WASC, CIS, NEASC etc.?

Then the question is; is the school accredited?

I would have to agree with this - Is the school accredited and with which organizations? (as some have less rigorous standards than others.) There are some very good international schools in Thailand.

[vont]

just how could a farang school in thailand claim educational quality equivalency with homeland schools.... is beyond me, really....

Err, I think you mean "Western school, or schools with a Western curriculum" .......

Anyway, simple; accreditation. I take it you have not heard of WASC, CIS, NEASC etc.?

Then the question is; is the school accredited?

oh yes, accreditation.... why not?

an accredited school by western standards out to do it, in terms of equivalency of quality of education between and amongst their properly accredited sisters.... brilliant idea indeed....

that surely would make many parents breathe a lot easier now, won't it? teachers, core leaders and principals?

of course it surely will....

now let's see.... what we can use as an example to further illustrate this accreditation point which is so important.... in the field of education and perhaps also in science.... correct?

i just wonder, if those nuclear power plants in japan before they started to melt down to their cores, have been properly and appropriately accredited and certified by the nuclear commission....?

what do you think my learned friend, kilgore....?

Edited June 11, 2011 by vont

[lomatopo]

just how could a farang school in thailand claim educational quality equivalency with homeland schools.... is beyond me, really....

Err, I think you mean "Western school, or schools with a Western curriculum" .......

Anyway, simple; accreditation. I take it you have not heard of WASC, CIS, NEASC etc.?

Then the question is; is the school accredited?

I would have to agree with this - Is the school accredited and with which organizations? (as some have less rigorous standards than others.) There are some very good international schools in Thailand.

Also agree, Saint John Mary is WASC-accredited.

[Kilgore Trout]

just how could a farang school in thailand claim educational quality equivalency with homeland schools.... is beyond me, really....

Err, I think you mean "Western school, or schools with a Western curriculum" .......

Anyway, simple; accreditation. I take it you have not heard of WASC, CIS, NEASC etc.?

Then the question is; is the school accredited?

oh yes, accreditation.... why not?

an accredited school by western standards out to do it, in terms of equivalency of quality of education between and amongst their properly accredited sisters.... brilliant idea indeed....

that surely would make many parents breathe a lot easier now, won't it? teachers, core leaders and principals?

of course it surely will....

now let's see.... what we can use as an example to further illustrate this accreditation point which is so important.... in the field of education and perhaps also in science.... correct?

i just wonder, if those nuclear power plants in japan before they started to melt down to their cores, have been properly and appropriately accredited and certified by the nuclear commission....?

what do you think my learned friend, kilgore....?

As a longtime teacher in int. schools here who has gone through the accreditaion process and has seen what is required to receive full accreditation (approx. a 5-7 year process)I would say the system works as good as it should; all things considered.

I have also worked in schools in the US that I would be more concerned about compared to some int. schools in Thailand.

And come on; comparing this to nuclear plants in Japan

I get the feeling you don't know or understand much about educational theory or practice or what is even required for a school to provide a quality education.

Advice: Make assertions and arguments about things you actually know about; or at least do some research

[vont]

just how could a farang school in thailand claim educational quality equivalency with homeland schools.... is beyond me, really....

Err, I think you mean "Western school, or schools with a Western curriculum" .......

Anyway, simple; accreditation. I take it you have not heard of WASC, CIS, NEASC etc.?

Then the question is; is the school accredited?

oh yes, accreditation.... why not?

an accredited school by western standards out to do it, in terms of equivalency of quality of education between and amongst their properly accredited sisters.... brilliant idea indeed....

that surely would make many parents breathe a lot easier now, won't it? teachers, core leaders and principals?

of course it surely will....

now let's see.... what we can use as an example to further illustrate this accreditation point which is so important.... in the field of education and perhaps also in science.... correct?

i just wonder, if those nuclear power plants in japan before they started to melt down to their cores, have been properly and appropriately accredited and certified by the nuclear commission....?

what do you think my learned friend, kilgore....?

As a longtime teacher in int. schools here who has gone through the accreditaion process and has seen what is required to receive full accreditation (approx. a 5-7 year process)I would say the system works as good as it should; all things considered.

I have also worked in schools in the US that I would be more concerned about compared to some int. schools in Thailand.

And come on; comparing this to nuclear plants in Japan

I get the feeling you don't know or understand much about educational theory or practice or what is even required for a school to provide a quality education.

Advice: Make assertions and arguments about things you actually know about; or at least do some research

little kilgore dear

just last week, a self-acclaimed learned and educated person across several universities on multinational campus, was just being buried live here

because of his self-importance....

now this week, you showed up declaring someone whom you did not know much about that person's background in education or professional training....

that the person ought to.... to quote you....

....Make assertions and arguments about things you actually know about; or at least do some research....

-------------------

i always hold teachers and educators in high esteem, because i believe they come to thailand to help thai to progress toward a better future....

even though a minority of them never ever even stepped into a classroom to teach.... even one day in their entire life....

but because they express their current desire to impart something to the thai educational system, they should be acclaimed, shouldn't they?

now, kilgore, you are a little different.... you claimed you have worked in the u.s. schools.... isn't that what you claimed?

in the field of education.... to proclaim that you have worked in the u.s. schools.... surely does not necessarily mean that you have taught in the u.s. schools.... does it?

now did you actually work in the u.s. schools, or did you teach in the u.s. schools, pls?

a janitor also works but not necessarily being certified to teach in a subject area.... am i correct or not?

actually, i do not really care whether you worked or taught before....

what irked me to no end is your obnoxious attitude....

attempting to put down others whom you know nothing about....

besides, you, as an educator, really ought to find someway to improve your rate of comprehension....

i thought the comparison of a nuclear power generator plant being certified and accredited to operate....

that very process of certifying is much much more stringent than in the field of education....

how you, as an educator, missed this point is another one big unanswered question....

-------------------

now.... perhaps, you never thought possible that....

all the fellow farang teachers and educators around the province address me as doctor v....

does that say anything to you at all.... kilgore?

try to be a little more humble.... live a little less aggressively.... is my humble suggestion for you.... cheers....

Edited June 12, 2011 by vont

[Kilgore Trout]

I've never heard someone talk so much and say so little....

and of course I taught in the US; don't be daft

Apologies to the OP for Vont getting off topic.......

[Kuruzovich]

While I cannot comment on other international schools in Thailand, I can definitively affirm that my own school does follow the American curriculum closely. More specifically, we originally used the California standards as a base, and over the course of several years have systematically adapted them to suit the needs of our students. In regard to whether or not our students receive the same quality education that they would receive in public schools--or even many private schools--in the United States, the answer is definitely yes. As to how I reach this conclusion, it is not because of tests or other assessments that we create and administer, but rather through external indicators:

• All of our students from Grade 3 to Grade 12 take the Stanford Achievement Test (SAT 10) at the end of each school year, as do the majority of American-curriculum schools. The composite results over the past three years indicate that our students exceed their U.S. counterparts in mathematics and science by an average of one to two grade levels, and though they lag behind in English (which is to be expected in a predominantly ESL population), the trends indicate they they will surpass U.S. students in those areas within three years.
• Many of our students at the high school level take the SAT Reasoning Test (used in the United States for university admissions), and their scores again indicate that they exceed U.S. averages in mathematics and science, and our most recent results show that our top students have also done exceptionally well in the English sections.
• Each year several of our students receive invitations to join the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth (CTY) program and the Global Young Leaders Conference (GYLC).
• Our students participate in national and international debate tournaments, as well as international scholastic competitions such as the World Scholar's Cup, and they typically place highly in such events. (Note that they are competing against schools from all parts of the world, including the United States and Europe.)
• Graduates from our school have been accepted into institutions such as Purdue University, Nottingham University, Colorado State University, University of California - Davis, and several other prestigious universities. Our 2011 valedictorian received the Presidential Scholarship (worth US $36,000) from Colorado State University.
• In regard to the quality of the teachers, all of our hires are qualified to teach in their respective subjects, and approximately 70% possess or are pursuing graduate degrees in education or their subject areas.

Again, while I can only state this about my own school, I cannot say whether this is the case elsewhere. However, having worked in the international education field several years, I do believe that many other high-profile international schools in Thailand could provide similar evidence regarding their academic programs. In short, it is entirely possible to get a Western-quality education in Bangkok.

[vont]

kuruzovich,

thx. very informative indeed.

would you care to provide a little more details for those who are not in the field of teaching or education, per se, pls?

if you have time, pls provide more specificities to the questions in blue color, ok? just like to know more about your school, ok? thx much in advance, mate.

While I cannot comment on other international schools in Thailand, I can definitively affirm that my own school does follow the American curriculum closely. More specifically, we originally used the California standards as a base, and over the course of several years have systematically adapted them to suit the needs of our students. In regard to whether or not our students receive the same quality education that they would receive in public schools--or even many private schools--in the United States, the answer is definitely yes. As to how I reach this conclusion, it is not because of tests or other assessments that we create and administer, but rather through external indicators:

• All of our students from Grade 3 to Grade 12 take the Stanford Achievement Test (SAT 10) at the end of each school year, as do the majority of American-curriculum schools. The composite results over the past three years indicate that our students exceed their U.S. counterparts in mathematics and science by an average of one to two grade levels, and though they lag behind in English (which is to be expected in a predominantly ESL population), the trends indicate they they will surpass U.S. students in those areas within three years.

<1>.... our students exceed their U.S. counterparts in mathematics and science by an average of one to two grade levels....

are you saying that your above statement of scoring an average of one to two grade levels better than their u.s. counterparts.... is in fact.... a statistically significant improvement, pls? or the differences could also be attributable to other factors than schooling matters....? wanna give us a little more precise analyses, pls?

<2>....the trends indicate they they will surpass U.S. students in those areas within three years....

does the administrator's manual accompanying the SAT 10 test booklets.... stated that as fact or that the statement was not made nor inferred by the test maker....? .

Many of our students at the high school level take the SAT Reasoning Test (used in the United States for university admissions), and their scores again indicate that they exceed U.S. averages in mathematics and science, and our most recent results show that our top students have also done exceptionally well in the English sections.

<3>....i am very much impressed with the aforementioned claims, indeed.

<4>....specifically, how much did your students' scores exceed those scored by the u.s. students in terms of raw scores and stanine, pls?

<5>....as i vaguely recalled.... those raw scores, standard scores and stanine were surely reported back to the individual schools, were they not?

<5>....furthermore, did the test manual also mention that the differences that you attributed favorably, were not the results of some randomization non-measurable by the testing instrument itself....?

many a time, educators are very much like politicians in many respects, they like to over generalize the resultant findings to some other areas or something else that might or might not be relevant nor remotely related....

<6>....the main reason that i brought this up is to enlightening up the superiority claim a little.... so OTHER ALSO OUTSTANDING INTERNATIONAL SCHOOLS IN THAILAND that choose to remain and maintain an exclusively thai MAI-PAN-RAI attitude.... would not feel being too neglected one way or the other....

Each year several of our students receive invitations to join the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth (CTY) program and the Global Young Leaders Conference (GYLC).

• Our students participate in national and international debate tournaments, as well as international scholastic competitions such as the World Scholar's Cup, and they typically place highly in such events. (Note that they are competing against schools from all parts of the world, including the United States and Europe.)
• Graduates from our school have been accepted into institutions such as Purdue University, Nottingham University, Colorado State University, University of California - Davis, and several other prestigious universities. Our 2011 valedictorian received the Presidential Scholarship (worth US $36,000) from Colorado State University.
• In regard to the quality of the teachers, all of our hires are qualified to teach in their respective subjects, and approximately 70% possess or are pursuing graduate degrees in education or their subject areas.

<7>.... approximately 70% are pursuing graduate degrees.... now that is impressive by itself....

and per chance, in your reputable school, did you or the principal actually hire a third unbias entity to verify each teacher qualification and certification doc with the primary source without exception, pls?

Cheers....

.... Again, while I can only state this about my own school, I cannot say whether this is the case elsewhere. However, having worked in the international education field several years, I do believe that many other high-profile international schools in Thailand could provide similar evidence regarding their academic programs. In short, it is entirely possible to get a Western-quality education in Bangkok.

Edited June 23, 2011 by vont

[Kuruzovich]

I'd be more than happy to elaborate when someone is interested, though keep in mind that my own background in teaching is in the humanities (specifically language arts and social studies), and I thus do not feel fully qualified to go into statistical analysis. However, the headmaster of my school is a statistician, and he mentioned that you'd be welcome to stop by if you really would like to discuss some of the data more in-depth.

In regard to your questions:

• "are you saying that your above statement of scoring an average of one to two grade levels better than their u.s. counterparts.... is in fact.... a statistically significant improvement, pls? or the differences could also be attributable to other factors than schooling matters....? wanna give us a little more precise analyses, pls? "
  • I'm unsure as to whether you're asking if our students demonstrate improvement from year to year, or whether the gap between their performances and those of U.S. students grows from year to year. If the former, it's a given that students do improve each year. If the latter, the gap appears to remain constant based on our current data from the past three years. As to the possibility of other factors playing a role, that's simply the nature of standardized testing; other factors will always play a role. However, considering the uniformity with which these improvements take place, it is unlikely that any other common factor could be influencing the scores, as our students come from diverse backgrounds. To give one example, among our current incoming grade 10 students, all but two scored at the post-high school level on the SAT 10 mathematics section at the end of their grade 8 year. To have these results across the board in a class of 36 makes it unlikely that other external factors beyond the school play a statistically significant role, a point supported by the fact that such above-average results are common at all grade levels in our school (in mathematics specifically).

  [*]"does the administrator's manual accompanying the SAT 10 test booklets.... stated that as fact or that the statement was not made nor inferred by the test maker....?" (referring to the possibility of our students exceeding U.S. standards in the English sections of the SAT 10 within three years)

  • Pearson did not infer that; we did so ourselves based on the trends of the past three years, which showed that the Classes of 2010 and 2011 exceeded U.S. averages in the English language sections upon reaching their senior years, and that the improvement rates of lower grade levels are exceeding those of the equivalent grade levels in the U.S. The reason we feel safe in making this inference is that we've had few changes occur in regard to our fundamental educational approach, low turnover and increasingly qualified instructors in the language arts department. Is it definitive proof that it will happen? Certainly not. But it is a valid indicator that is is likely to occur.

  [*]"....specifically, how much did your students' scores exceed those scored by the u.s. students in terms of raw scores and stanine, pls?"

  • I do not feel personally qualified to address this question or the others that immediately followed it, as it involved analysis that I haven't personally studied since high school. Again, however, you're welcome to stop by for a visit with the headmaster, who can provide such a detailed analysis. I can simply state that the scores received by many of our students on the SAT were higher than the average scores indicated here and on many other sites. They posted the highest results in mathematics, as they did on the SAT 10, and a few had scores higher than the reported U.S. averages in English, though most were simply average in that respect.

  [*]".... approximately 70% are pursuing graduate degrees.... now that is impressive by itself....

  and per chance, in your reputable school, did you or the principal actually hire a third unbias entity to verify each teacher qualification and certification doc with the primary source without exception, pls"

  • This is actually not uncommon among most of the top international schools here in Thailand, many of which require that all new hires be certified to teach in their home countries. While we do not require that of all new hires at our school, we do require that they possess or be undergoing the credentials necessary to receive a teaching license from the Thai Ministry of Education, which itself established that requirement for all teachers working in international schools. In order to receive the license, we must submit all official transcripts and university diplomas from the teachers we hire, and the MOE verifies that those documents are genuine. I should emphasize that they are quite strict and have turned down several B.Ed. and M.Ed. programs both in Thailand and abroad as being invalid. Virtually all of our Western teachers who do not yet possess teaching certification from a Western country typically enroll in the on-site Framingham M.Ed. program, which is accredited and does encompass all that would be required of any other teaching candidate in the U.S. (This obviously makes it easier for us to ensure that their training is valid.)

Finally, in addition to the invitation to visit our school if you really would like to know more about the educational system and data, I encourage you to visit our website to find more information about some of the test results I mentioned and our most recent accreditation documents. I hope this helped, and please let me know if I can provide you with any other information.

Best regards.

kuruzovich,

thx. very informative indeed.

would you care to provide a little more details for those who are not in the field of teaching or education, per se, pls?

if you have time, pls provide more specificities to the questions in blue color, ok? just like to know more about your school, ok? thx much in advance, mate.

While I cannot comment on other international schools in Thailand, I can definitively affirm that my own school does follow the American curriculum closely. More specifically, we originally used the California standards as a base, and over the course of several years have systematically adapted them to suit the needs of our students. In regard to whether or not our students receive the same quality education that they would receive in public schools--or even many private schools--in the United States, the answer is definitely yes. As to how I reach this conclusion, it is not because of tests or other assessments that we create and administer, but rather through external indicators:

• All of our students from Grade 3 to Grade 12 take the Stanford Achievement Test (SAT 10) at the end of each school year, as do the majority of American-curriculum schools. The composite results over the past three years indicate that our students exceed their U.S. counterparts in mathematics and science by an average of one to two grade levels, and though they lag behind in English (which is to be expected in a predominantly ESL population), the trends indicate they they will surpass U.S. students in those areas within three years.

<1>.... our students exceed their U.S. counterparts in mathematics and science by an average of one to two grade levels....

are you saying that your above statement of scoring an average of one to two grade levels better than their u.s. counterparts.... is in fact.... a statistically significant improvement, pls? or the differences could also be attributable to other factors than schooling matters....? wanna give us a little more precise analyses, pls?

<2>....the trends indicate they they will surpass U.S. students in those areas within three years....

does the administrator's manual accompanying the SAT 10 test booklets.... stated that as fact or that the statement was not made nor inferred by the test maker....? .

Many of our students at the high school level take the SAT Reasoning Test (used in the United States for university admissions), and their scores again indicate that they exceed U.S. averages in mathematics and science, and our most recent results show that our top students have also done exceptionally well in the English sections.

<3>....i am very much impressed with the aforementioned claims, indeed.

<4>....specifically, how much did your students' scores exceed those scored by the u.s. students in terms of raw scores and stanine, pls?

<5>....as i vaguely recalled.... those raw scores, standard scores and stanine were surely reported back to the individual schools, were they not?

<5>....furthermore, did the test manual also mention that the differences that you attributed favorably, were not the results of some randomization non-measurable by the testing instrument itself....?

many a time, educators are very much like politicians in many respects, they like to over generalize the resultant findings to some other areas or something else that might or might not be relevant nor remotely related....

<6>....the main reason that i brought this up is to enlightening up the superiority claim a little.... so OTHER ALSO OUTSTANDING INTERNATIONAL SCHOOLS IN THAILAND that choose to remain and maintain an exclusively thai MAI-PAN-RAI attitude.... would not feel being too neglected one way or the other....

Each year several of our students receive invitations to join the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth (CTY) program and the Global Young Leaders Conference (GYLC).

• Our students participate in national and international debate tournaments, as well as international scholastic competitions such as the World Scholar's Cup, and they typically place highly in such events. (Note that they are competing against schools from all parts of the world, including the United States and Europe.)
• Graduates from our school have been accepted into institutions such as Purdue University, Nottingham University, Colorado State University, University of California - Davis, and several other prestigious universities. Our 2011 valedictorian received the Presidential Scholarship (worth US $36,000) from Colorado State University.
• In regard to the quality of the teachers, all of our hires are qualified to teach in their respective subjects, and approximately 70% possess or are pursuing graduate degrees in education or their subject areas.

<7>.... approximately 70% are pursuing graduate degrees.... now that is impressive by itself....

and per chance, in your reputable school, did you or the principal actually hire a third unbias entity to verify each teacher qualification and certification doc with the primary source without exception, pls?

Cheers....

.... Again, while I can only state this about my own school, I cannot say whether this is the case elsewhere. However, having worked in the international education field several years, I do believe that many other high-profile international schools in Thailand could provide similar evidence regarding their academic programs. In short, it is entirely possible to get a Western-quality education in Bangkok.

Edited June 24, 2011 by Kuruzovich

[p_brownstone]

I am open to contradiction by Members in the field of education but I believe your friends' child may be better advised to study for the International Baccalaureate rather than the (somewhat discredited?) GCSE's.

My daughter did the I.B. course at ISB here in Bangkok and was considered – and offered places at – various Universities in both U.K. and the U.S.A.. She eventually attended the London School of Economics.

Patrick

[sparebox2]

I believe Thailand current only have 4 great internation schools. This is just my opinion.

They are (alpabetically)

Bangkok Patana

Harrow

ISB

Shrewsbury