FF, since you ask: I think the article that SD2 has kindly offered (In the Calcim thread) has some good points. And the Dog has obviously put some major thought and care into his plants and property and I value his observations. I just think the mango pruning paper is very over-intellectualized and more technical than it needs to be for the everyday guy like you and me. But that's the nature of scientist-speak. (No I'm not a PhD, far from it, just an old tree doctor with a nickname from friends) I don't say it's wrong, but I'm sure that many people who read it will have a hard time going out into the field and putting it into practice. Some will love to dig in and try to understand, because they love that technical stuff. I couldn't even read the whole thing. But then I've been practicing and teaching pruning for a long time and have developed a simplified approach.

As a climber, and owner of long handled pruning and harvesting tools, I will never agree that it is necessary to head back a tree heavily in order to make the fruit more accessible, and I believe that crown reduction is best achieved by "drop crotching" (thinning cuts that take out the tallest leaders back into the crown, leaving the shorter ones) rather than heading. But then I'm not a commercial grower looking at only the product and profit; and I understand that sometimes the economics and practical issues of production agriculture prevail. I work mostly with landscape fruit trees and small home orchards and I value the natural form and beauty of trees along with the productivity, and I believe you can have both. In that respect, landscape-ornamental and fruit tree pruning can be approached in much the same way.

I don't have the final word and I don't want to hog the open discussion on pruning. But I do have more practical experience than most and I am happy to share my experience, for what it's worth. There have been several discussions on this subject so maybe it's time to have a thread on pruning of it's own, it's such an important aspect of PHC (plant health care), home garden, landscape and orchard maintenance. I don't have lot of time because I'm back in the US and bustin butt trying to meet the high cost of living. But I'll start a new thread in continuation of this discussion and contribute as time permits. Please help with your input and to find and consolodate previous discussions.

For starters, attached is a paper from Hong Kong that I helped put together. (No I didn't write the Chinese).

ATP Explanation of Pruning Terms.pdf

Out of interest how does one top bamboo about 14 foot high?

Is it OK with regular topping?

You can top or shear, but it looks hedged/matted and un-natural. If you want a more natural look, take out the tallest canes, all the way to the base and leave the shorter ones. With this approach you achieve thinning and height reduction at the same time.

If you head it (top), cut back to a lateral leaf node to avoid the ugly dead stub that will result from random shearing.

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/howtos/ht_prune/prun001.htm

Out of interest how does one top bamboo about 14 foot high?

Is it OK with regular topping?

You can top or shear, but it looks hedged/matted and un-natural. If you want a more natural look, take out the tallest canes, all the way to the base and leave the shorter ones. With this approach you achieve thinning and height reduction at the same time.

If you head it (top), cut back to a lateral leaf node to avoid the ugly dead stub that will result from random shearing.

Re bamboo thinning: Visually locate the tallest canes. Follow it down to where it comes out of the clump near the ground (follow by sight or by getting hold of it and pulling, shaking, so that you know you have a hold of the tall one you want). Then cut it off just above ground level with a saw or loppers. The before and after photos below are not from the same bamboo clump or even the same species, but used to illustrate the potential of thinning. . This applies most if you are after an ornamental, artistic visual effect, especially nice if you have a species with beautiful stems like that pictured and in a location where you can see it. If you want screening for privacy/security then leave it thick and reduce by heading. I don't have pics of height reduction

So I'm not sure of the proceedure to having a pinned subject but I agree that it is extremely critical aspect of any kind of plant care. For farmers it is very important as it is difference of putting money in the bank or having to take it out. I'm not sure who the moderator is but I think they have to be the one to pin it and then I guess others can suggest (?) to the moderator old posts to put in it or just put them in I would think. Off to the farm today so won't be on-line for a while I would imagine. Don't really know what's broke down more, me or the tractor but got to keep on keepin' on. Feet Forward Fords Forever

Out of interest how does one top bamboo about 14 foot high?

Is it OK with regular topping?

You can top or shear, but it looks hedged/matted and un-natural. If you want a more natural look, take out the tallest canes, all the way to the base and leave the shorter ones. With this approach you achieve thinning and height reduction at the same time.

If you head it (top), cut back to a lateral leaf node to avoid the ugly dead stub that will result from random shearing.

Re bamboo thinning: Visually locate the tallest canes. Follow it down to where it comes out of the clump near the ground (follow by sight or by getting hold of it and pulling, shaking, so that you know you have a hold of the tall one you want). Then cut it off just above ground level with a saw or loppers. The before and after photos below are not from the same bamboo clump or even the same species, but used to illustrate the potential of thinning. . This applies most if you are after an ornamental, artistic visual effect, especially nice if you have a species with beautiful stems like that pictured and in a location where you can see it. If you want screening for privacy/security then leave it thick and reduce by heading. I don't have pics of height reduction

A key to tree pruning is to respect and work with the natural structure of the tree. Look at it and try to get a sense of the natural form and structure. If you work against nature ... well you know how that goes.

Look at the outer, foliar form, but fundamental is to look inside at the woody structure of the tree. There are two basic types of stucture. Excurrent and decurrent.

As the doctor says, not to get involved in a long winded conversation.

In defense of the paper I uploaded here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=140170

In my mango farm there are 300 trees of about 6/7 varieties. Most years I do my best to prune them myself or at least supervise with tight instructions.

Not entirely commercial; we do have a good following in the area because our mangoes are selectively picked only when ripe; we also do not stress the trees by inducing two seasons a year as all commercial growers must do to make a profit.

The doctor's pruning concerns are esthetic & ethical.

In the commercial world other standards apply. Ease of harvest & abundant yield are most important.

It happens that young mango trees respond really well to pruning; forming the desired shape and canopy size in the first 3 or 4 years.

A properly cared for tree does not need any large structural branches removed. Yearly or by-yearly maintenance basically just removes last years growth and makes room for new fruiting branches to develop.

The paper explains the tree's growth mechanism and how to maximize synchronized flowering in order to attain maximum yield in a commercial operation.

Extremely interesting and immediately familiar to anyone handling mango trees.

It's stated pruning principles work an all types of mango trees.

Some types grow more vigorous than others; you must choose how much to increase canopy radius (with the type of cuts made)according to growth patterns.

This paper will give you the understanding on how to do that. Hard to come by printed knowledge.

Best to all.