Need Advice On The Local Norm

[ray23]

We have a housekeeper of one year does a good job, but we need to change her day and she will not do that. So what would be reasonable severence pay?

[barryofthailand]

No need to pay severance since it is her that is unable to acomadate your needs.

Barry

[Tywais]

No need to pay severance since it is her that is unable to acomadate your needs.

Barry

That was my thought also. However if you feel you must then 1-month's should be enough.

[Thai Chi]

We have a housekeeper of one year does a good job, but we need to change her day and she will not do that.  So what would be reasonable severence pay?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may (or may not) find this intresting

May 07, 2004

Thailand: Employees' rights at job termination

"Employers and employees are normally bound by an employment contract, be it oral, written or implied. Employment agreements that violate the Labour Protection Act are void."

Employers may terminate employees with or without cause unless required by law to follow certain procedures, as in the case of employee representatives in a registered employee committee protected under the Labour Relations Act. According to the said Act, employers proposing to punish or terminate such employees must first obtain court approval, otherwise they risk being charged with a criminal offence.

To terminate employment of unspecified duration without cause, employers must give advance notice at or before any time of wage payment, to take effect in the next period of wage payment. Section 17 of the Labour Protection Act and Section 582 of the Civil and Commercial Code stipulate that employers may terminate employees without advance notice, provided that they pay advance wages in lieu of such notice.

Such ``payment in lieu'' of notice would consist of all wages due from the date of termination through the next wage payment date. If termination occurs within a payment cycle (i.e. termination occurs between wage payment dates), then such payment would have to include (a) the wages due through the next ensuing payment date plus ( one additional payment period's wages beyond that. In sum, the payment in lieu of advance notice can in no case be less than the sum of one full pay period's wages.

For example, an employer pays monthly wages on the 27th of each month. An employee is terminated without notice effective April 1. That employee would be entitled to his wages through May 30 as payment in lieu of ad This would be in addition to any severance payment or other benefits to which he would be entitled.

Employees terminated without cause are also entitled to receive severance pay if they have worked at least 120 days. Severance pay varies depending on the length of employment:

u120 days but less than one year: 30 days' wages;uOne year but less than three years: 90 days' wages;

uThree years but less than six years: 180 days' wages;

uSix years but less than 10 years: 240 days' wages;

uTen years and upward: 300 days' wages.

Also, terminated employees are entitled to payment for unused annual leave except when terminated with cause.

Employers may be taken to the Labour Court for not paying statutory compensation and returning a security deposit and could be ordered to pay such compensation plus 15% interest per year. Nevertheless, employers need not pay compensation to employees terminated for one of the following:

Performing duties dishonestly or intentionally committing a criminal offence against the employer.

Intentionally causing damage to the employer.

Acting with gross negligence resulting in serious damage to the employer.

Violating legitimate and fair orders and policies of the employer after having already been issued a written warning. For serious violations, employers need not give a written warning. A written warning is valid for not more than one year from the commitment of the offence.

Neglecting duties for three consecutive workdays without a valid reason, whether or not there is an intervening holiday in that period.

Being imprisoned by a final judgment, unless it is for a negligent act or petty crime.

Furthermore, for serious violations of work rules and regulations, employers are not required to give advance written notice, but they must indicate the cause for termination in the termination notice.

Nevertheless, if the wrongdoing does not reach a certain degree of severity, employers are still required to pay severance pay. Severity will be measured based not only on the employer's standards, but also on general workplace practices. For example, an employer may deem an employee's occasional tardiness a serious violation, but it may not be deemed so in normal practice. The Court will take into account the normal practice in other workplaces in making its decision.

In addition, the Court may consider termination as unfair if done without justifiable cause. An example is a firm cutting its workforce to save costs. This is considered unfair termination, and employers may be ordered to reinstate the employees. However, if the employer-employee relationship has turned hostile, the employees may instead be awarded damages in addition to severance pay.

Employees can pursue legal action against employers for unfair termination and other labour issues through the Labour Court. Unlike in other civil courts, employees are not required to pay court fees to the Labour Court.

Finally, to hopefully settle labour disputes before they advance any further, the Labour Court has introduced mediation early in the proceedings. The judge mediates between the parties to try to reach an amicable solution, saving all parties time and money.

Source: Sasirusm B. Chunhakasikarn and Noppramart Prasitmonthon, "Employees' rights at job termination," Bangkok Post, 07 May 2004.

But another source reveals this tidbit

An employer is not required to pay severance pay to an employee whose employment has been terminated for any of the following reasons:

Resignation,

Dishonest performance of his duties or the intentional commission of a criminal act against the employer;

Intentionally causing loss to the employer;

Performance of gross negligence which result in severe loss to the employer;

Violation of the employer's work rules or regulations or order which are both lawful and equitable when the employer has already issued the employee with a prior written warning, except in a serious instance when the employer is not required to give a warning. The written warning shall be effective for a period of one year as from the date of the commission of the violation by the employee;

Neglect of his duties for a period of three consecutive work days without reasonable cause, whether or not a holiday intervenes;

Imprisonment by reason of a final judgment.

An employment contract shall be terminated when the specified period in the employment contract expires, the works related are as follows:

Employment on a special project, which is not in the normal way of business or trade of the employer, where there is a fixed schedule for commencement and completion of work.

Work of a temporary nature with a fixed schedule for its commencement or completion.

Seasonal work in respect of which employees are only engaged during that season; provided that the work most be completed within a period of two years and the employer and employee have entered into a written agreement at or prior to the commencement of employment.

And from another angle My next door neighbours (Thai) hired a local girl to look after their 3 month old baby. 5000bht per month, 6 days a week and about 7 hours each day. She worked for 2 weeks and then left to go to a better paying job. Her pay for the 2 weeks was.......0 bht

[Thai Chi]

Stuffed how that Smiley got into the copied and pasted text ??????

[Lusifer]

No need to pay severance since it is her that is unable to acomadate your needs.

Barry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was my thought also. However if you feel you must then 1-month's should be enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good Morning

Good point here, but having by my self 7 full, 5 part-time employeer's, i have written contract what is staited and again werbally explaned together Me+Co-Owner and Sr.Supervisor(as witness) and after every single point has been gone throught contract will be signed by all parties, Small process to cover ones back.

and so far no worries, thai people specally oung ones have tendencey to stay in one place only short time.

[ray23]

We have a housekeeper of one year does a good job, but we need to change her day and she will not do that.  So what would be reasonable severence pay?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may (or may not) find this intresting

May 07, 2004

Thailand: Employees' rights at job termination

"Employers and employees are normally bound by an employment contract, be it oral, written or implied. Employment agreements that violate the Labour Protection Act are void."

Employers may terminate employees with or without cause unless required by law to follow certain procedures, as in the case of employee representatives in a registered employee committee protected under the Labour Relations Act. According to the said Act, employers proposing to punish or terminate such employees must first obtain court approval, otherwise they risk being charged with a criminal offence.

To terminate employment of unspecified duration without cause, employers must give advance notice at or before any time of wage payment, to take effect in the next period of wage payment. Section 17 of the Labour Protection Act and Section 582 of the Civil and Commercial Code stipulate that employers may terminate employees without advance notice, provided that they pay advance wages in lieu of such notice.

Such ``payment in lieu'' of notice would consist of all wages due from the date of termination through the next wage payment date. If termination occurs within a payment cycle (i.e. termination occurs between wage payment dates), then such payment would have to include (a) the wages due through the next ensuing payment date plus ( one additional payment period's wages beyond that. In sum, the payment in lieu of advance notice can in no case be less than the sum of one full pay period's wages.

For example, an employer pays monthly wages on the 27th of each month. An employee is terminated without notice effective April 1. That employee would be entitled to his wages through May 30 as payment in lieu of ad This would be in addition to any severance payment or other benefits to which he would be entitled.

Employees terminated without cause are also entitled to receive severance pay if they have worked at least 120 days. Severance pay varies depending on the length of employment:

u120 days but less than one year: 30 days' wages;uOne year but less than three years: 90 days' wages;

uThree years but less than six years: 180 days' wages;

uSix years but less than 10 years: 240 days' wages;

uTen years and upward: 300 days' wages.

Also, terminated employees are entitled to payment for unused annual leave except when terminated with cause.

Employers may be taken to the Labour Court for not paying statutory compensation and returning a security deposit and could be ordered to pay such compensation plus 15% interest per year. Nevertheless, employers need not pay compensation to employees terminated for one of the following:

Performing duties dishonestly or intentionally committing a criminal offence against the employer.

Intentionally causing damage to the employer.

Acting with gross negligence resulting in serious damage to the employer.

Violating legitimate and fair orders and policies of the employer after having already been issued a written warning. For serious violations, employers need not give a written warning. A written warning is valid for not more than one year from the commitment of the offence.

Neglecting duties for three consecutive workdays without a valid reason, whether or not there is an intervening holiday in that period.

Being imprisoned by a final judgment, unless it is for a negligent act or petty crime.

Furthermore, for serious violations of work rules and regulations, employers are not required to give advance written notice, but they must indicate the cause for termination in the termination notice.

Nevertheless, if the wrongdoing does not reach a certain degree of severity, employers are still required to pay severance pay. Severity will be measured based not only on the employer's standards, but also on general workplace practices. For example, an employer may deem an employee's occasional tardiness a serious violation, but it may not be deemed so in normal practice. The Court will take into account the normal practice in other workplaces in making its decision.

In addition, the Court may consider termination as unfair if done without justifiable cause. An example is a firm cutting its workforce to save costs. This is considered unfair termination, and employers may be ordered to reinstate the employees. However, if the employer-employee relationship has turned hostile, the employees may instead be awarded damages in addition to severance pay.

Employees can pursue legal action against employers for unfair termination and other labour issues through the Labour Court. Unlike in other civil courts, employees are not required to pay court fees to the Labour Court.

Finally, to hopefully settle labour disputes before they advance any further, the Labour Court has introduced mediation early in the proceedings. The judge mediates between the parties to try to reach an amicable solution, saving all parties time and money.

Source: Sasirusm B. Chunhakasikarn and Noppramart Prasitmonthon, "Employees' rights at job termination," Bangkok Post, 07 May 2004.

But another source reveals this tidbit

An employer is not required to pay severance pay to an employee whose employment has been terminated for any of the following reasons:

Resignation,

Dishonest performance of his duties or the intentional commission of a criminal act against the employer;

Intentionally causing loss to the employer;

Performance of gross negligence which result in severe loss to the employer;

Violation of the employer's work rules or regulations or order which are both lawful and equitable when the employer has already issued the employee with a prior written warning, except in a serious instance when the employer is not required to give a warning. The written warning shall be effective for a period of one year as from the date of the commission of the violation by the employee;

Neglect of his duties for a period of three consecutive work days without reasonable cause, whether or not a holiday intervenes;

Imprisonment by reason of a final judgment.

An employment contract shall be terminated when the specified period in the employment contract expires, the works related are as follows:

Employment on a special project, which is not in the normal way of business or trade of the employer, where there is a fixed schedule for commencement and completion of work.

Work of a temporary nature with a fixed schedule for its commencement or completion.

Seasonal work in respect of which employees are only engaged during that season; provided that the work most be completed within a period of two years and the employer and employee have entered into a written agreement at or prior to the commencement of employment.

And from another angle My next door neighbours (Thai) hired a local girl to look after their 3 month old baby. 5000bht per month, 6 days a week and about 7 hours each day. She worked for 2 weeks and then left to go to a better paying job. Her pay for the 2 weeks was.......0 bht

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that is good information, thank you. My situation seems to be resolving itself. Really hated to see this person go and I think she had to think a bit too, she make about 500 a week more then other housekeepers in the area as I help her two daughters with school costs. They are nice people and trustworthy. But the truth is the reason we have a housekeeper is so we have the freedom to go when we want to. There are only two of us and a two bedroom house, so not much to do anyway. This was the second I can't work in about three days when we had things planned.

Part of the problem was the wife I think she was more interested in making sure the housekeeper was happy, like I said really nice people. So I had to step in that really is not my job, the household is my wifes. She is given a budget to run it and I try not to interfere.

I thought two weeks was what I would give her I think I underestimated so I will keep thirty days in mind, if it should arise again.

The other thing I believe I need to do is get a written contract so everyone know what to expect.

I have more or less been a house mouse for about a year now, but now it's time for some travleing.

The sad thing this wa a very happy household until this arised now you can feel the tension in the air, hopefully that will pass.

[Lusifer]

I have more or less been a house mouse for about a year now, but now it's time for some travleing.

The sad thing this wa a very happy household until this arised now you can feel the tension in the air, hopefully that will pass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what alvays arise, when it become either change or termination of employeer, but like in all business, you cant be too kind to your hose keeper, or she will start to run in the family business, keep it professional level.

Hope u solve it and if there is any disagreement and she is going avay, remember change ALL locks in your house,i dont need to tell you why...do i??

[ray23]

I have more or less been a house mouse for about a year now, but now it's time for some travleing.

The sad thing this wa a very happy household until this arised now you can feel the tension in the air, hopefully that will pass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what alvays arise, when it become either change or termination of employeer, but like in all business, you cant be too kind to your hose keeper, or she will start to run in the family business, keep it professional level.

Hope u solve it and if there is any disagreement and she is going avay, remember change ALL locks in your house,i dont need to tell you why...do i??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No don't need to tell me why. Isn't to bad that people can perceive kindness as weakness, but I suppose that is human nature,