Post Election Outlook Worries PM Abhisit

[bungalownights]

Unless they changed their stance, I think the Amnesty didn't include those responsible for the deaths of 90+ protesters.

But it doe's include an Amnesty for Thaksin, the one that was responsible for the Deaths of 2500 to 3000 Alleged Drug Dealers,

Doe's this refresh your memory a little? or does it not count?

Be careful - a potentially libelous statement considering responsibility had not yet been determined/proven in a court of law

Edited June 15, 2011 by bungalownights

[samurai]

Go on. Bring evidence. Any *justice* happened yet?

No, and if you expect justice once the next government is formed (PTP or Dem) you're only deluding yourself. If PTP form the next government do you really think the Dead red shorts will get justice. They were pawns to be sacrificed, the Army has swept away, cleared up and burnt any evidence linking it, other then circumstantial - No court in the Thailand is going to rule against the army. The army runs the country, governments come and go, but the army always remains. Look at your history books!! The UDD will be bitterly disappointed, then watch the factions split in PTP and the dance begins again.

You are probably right with that.

That is the answer to the question who is responsible and why we don't saw any *justice* happened yet.

What the reds can expect is to get some status like the "Hok Tulaa" the October people, but no further question ask or anyone convicted or the full story told in the Thai history books.

That is something what the UDD knows because they are, partly, the "Hok Tulaa" generation.

[samurai]

Unless they changed their stance, I think the Amnesty didn't include those responsible for the deaths of 90+ protesters.

But it doe's include an Amnesty for Thaksin, the one that was responsible for the Deaths of 2500 to 3000 Alleged Drug Dealers,

Doe's this refresh your memory a little? or doe's it not count as unlawful?

No. It doesn't include an amnesty for the ones who are responsible for the death in the war on drug.

Who said that it would be the case?

[ginjag]

Unless they changed their stance, I think the Amnesty didn't include those responsible for the deaths of 90+ protesters.

But it doe's include an Amnesty for Thaksin, the one that was responsible for the Deaths of 2500 to 3000 Alleged Drug Dealers,

Doe's this refresh your memory a little? or does it not count?

Be careful - a potentially libelous statement considering responsibility had not yet been determined/proven in a court of law

Suppose being in DENIAL about the convictions-guilty verdicts re Thaksin, doesn't give you a very secure pedestal. for all the people that were killed in the war on drugs, who would you say was responsible. CAN you give an honest answer???

[metisdead]

Some posts proposing making wagers have been removed as per:

16) Not to post about gambling, betting, pornography, illegal drugs, fake goods/clothing etc and other activities that are officially illegal in Thailand.

Allegations as to some posters being paid to post are not welcome here. If you have any proof, please forward the actual evidence to support(at)thaivisa.com.

It might be a good idea for some of you to back away from your keyboards and cool down for a while.

[timekeeper]

Some posts proposing making wagers have been removed as per:

16) Not to post about gambling, betting, pornography, illegal drugs, fake goods/clothing etc and other activities that are officially illegal in Thailand.

Allegations as to some posters being paid to post are not welcome here. If you have any proof, please forward the actual evidence to support(at)thaivisa.com.

It might be a good idea for some of you to back away from your keyboards and cool down for a while.

good idea!

i am going to go get a beer and some grub

happy days.........

[Siripon]

Go on. Bring evidence. Any *justice* happened yet?

No, and if you expect justice once the next government is formed (PTP or Dem) you're only deluding yourself. If PTP form the next government do you really think the Dead red shorts will get justice. They were pawns to be sacrificed, the Army has swept away, cleared up and burnt any evidence linking it, other then circumstantial - No court in the Thailand is going to rule against the army. The army runs the country, governments come and go, but the army always remains. Look at your history books!! The UDD will be bitterly disappointed, then watch the factions split in PTP and the dance begins again.

You are probably right with that.

That is the answer to the question who is responsible and why we don't saw any *justice* happened yet.

What the reds can expect is to get some status like the "Hok Tulaa" the October people, but no further question ask or anyone convicted or the full story told in the Thai history books.

That is something what the UDD knows because they are, partly, the "Hok Tulaa" generation.

The only status they will get is as victims of Thaksin and the red shirt leadership.

The October 6th 1976 victims were almost all students who died at the hands of right wing military thugs in militias and the army.

They were in Thammasart University at Tha Prajan and were surrounded and brutally killed.

The red shirt protestors who died last year had seized a central part of Bangkok and refused to go home in spite of several days of urgings. They had weapons which they used. How many students died? Why did so few students join the red shirts?.

Because they could see protest was just a ploy to let Thaksin come home.

[samurai]

Ahh, the "protesters died as they ran into bullets" theory. Blame the victims.

After the PT win there will be a new independent committee, investigating all these death and we might see finally some results.

Who will be leading this investigation?

Maybe it should be the same commitee that will be investigating Thaksin's killing of 2500 people within 90 days? Mostly innocent people got killed (without a warning, when they were sleeping).

Was it a war on drugs or just an excuse to kill anybody that doesn't support this Thaksin criminal?

UN and many other NGOs called Thaksin "a human rights abuser of its worst kind".

You must be a proud man supporting Thaksin (or just un-educated).

Thaksin killed how many people? In their sleep?

Was/is that an issue for the Democrats or was it a reason for the military to stage the coup?

And you might wanna also check what these people who condemn Thaksin say about Abhisit.

I am not proud of Thaksin, what makes you think that? Because i have some doubts on the "protesters died as they ran into bullets" theory?

I just don't like uneducated rants.

[ianf]

Unless they changed their stance, I think the Amnesty didn't include those responsible for the deaths of 90+ protesters.

I think you'll find the reds and their shady backers were responsible for most of these deaths. You have to look at the bigger picture. Even before the demos took place the reds made many threatening noises about bringing empty bottles, burning the city and so on. Seh Daeng made it clear that he had 300 armed men at his beck and call and so it goes on. The red propaganda machine is very powerful and includes organisations like Freedom House who are hardly independent being linked, as they are, to Thaksin through Robert Amsterdam. Its a huge con trick on the Thai people to lay the blame at the door of the Government. I even found a red supporting website who claimed there were hundreds of deaths. There is no end to their lies and manipulation and I genuinely feel sorry for Khun Abhisit to have all this stuff heaped on his shoulders. He is probably one of the best prime ministers Thailand has ever had. A decent man. anti corruption and so on. But Thaksin's Global forces are difficult to counteract. When those who know nothing post gibberish on Farang websites, well that doesn't help either. Open your eyes and see how the powerful are manipulating you.

[janverbeem]

Unless they changed their stance, I think the Amnesty didn't include those responsible for the deaths of 90+ protesters.

I can not believe I'm replying to a troll,but ok lets give it a go.

As you seem well enaged with the Thaksin camp I'm sure you can give us the the exact number of the people that died in the Tak Bai incident and also how many innocent people were murdered in the so called drug clean up by your boss.If you count up those numbers I guess 90+ will look like a everyday event.

[jonclark]

Go on. Bring evidence. Any *justice* happened yet?

No, and if you expect justice once the next government is formed (PTP or Dem) you're only deluding yourself. If PTP form the next government do you really think the Dead red shorts will get justice. They were pawns to be sacrificed, the Army has swept away, cleared up and burnt any evidence linking it, other then circumstantial - No court in the Thailand is going to rule against the army. The army runs the country, governments come and go, but the army always remains. Look at your history books!! The UDD will be bitterly disappointed, then watch the factions split in PTP and the dance begins again.

You are probably right with that.

That is the answer to the question who is responsible and why we don't saw any *justice* happened yet.

What the reds can expect is to get some status like the "Hok Tulaa" the October people, but no further question ask or anyone convicted or the full story told in the Thai history books.

That is something what the UDD knows because they are, partly, the "Hok Tulaa" generation.

Indeed, it is sad for all people involved, the reds, the businesses, the innocents, hospital patients and to a lesser degree most of the Bangkok residents as it is just a repetition of past injustices. UNfortunatly due to the past, present and future 'longevity' of the Armies involvement in politics. Thailand is slowly dying on a sharp double edged sword. All the PTP and Dems do is twist the sword through their political words, dis inform the public as they both scramble for power and money.

The only solution is bringing the army tightly and permanently under civilian 'political' control, plenty of time for the memories to fade the hatred to dull, a new untainted leader and a bit of luck.

[samurai]

2001 Thaksin Shinawatra won the elections. Allegations of vote-buying forced partial re-run of poll. Thaksin formed a coalition government.

2008 8 July - Former parliamentary speaker and deputy leader, Yongyut Tiyapairat was stripped of his seat by Thai election officials for vote buying in northern Thailand during last December elections.

December 2 - A Constitutional Court ruled that the People Power Party (PPP) be disbanded because one of their party executives was convicted of vote buying during the December 2007 elections.

Answer this question here:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4488080

And how many people exactly sold their vote?

that's not for me to say, you called a previous post ''nonsense'' that said Thaksin bought votes

a little research states otherwise so that makes your red defense ''nonsense''

however it follows that where there are sellers, there will be buyers

so if there were no sellers there could be no conviction for buying

there were convictions for vote buying so obviously there were sellers of votes

simple enough for you...........?

No, its too much simplification and stupification for me. A nonsense debate.

Vote buying is not the reason why so many people voted for TRT, PPP or will vote for PT.

[jonclark]

2001 Thaksin Shinawatra won the elections. Allegations of vote-buying forced partial re-run of poll. Thaksin formed a coalition government.

2008 8 July - Former parliamentary speaker and deputy leader, Yongyut Tiyapairat was stripped of his seat by Thai election officials for vote buying in northern Thailand during last December elections.

December 2 - A Constitutional Court ruled that the People Power Party (PPP) be disbanded because one of their party executives was convicted of vote buying during the December 2007 elections.

Answer this question here:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4488080

And how many people exactly sold their vote?

that's not for me to say, you called a previous post ''nonsense'' that said Thaksin bought votes

a little research states otherwise so that makes your red defense ''nonsense''

however it follows that where there are sellers, there will be buyers

so if there were no sellers there could be no conviction for buying

there were convictions for vote buying so obviously there were sellers of votes

simple enough for you...........?

No, its too much simplification and stupification for me. A nonsense debate.

Vote buying is not the reason why so many people voted for TRT, PPP or will vote for PT.

Probably not the only reason, but the provision of money for placing an X on a ballot paper is a reason, and in some cases a welcome (additional) reason for many poorer Thai families. Poverty and corruption are bedfellows.

[Soi Sauce]

This election is about establishing a dictatorship. and nothing else, and the Thai people will lose out very quickly.

Lack of knowledge, global ignorance, and a belief that democracy = wealth will be their ruin.

Ex; Pol Pot, who the hell is he? only the guy next door.

Stalin; Who?

Mao? That's drunk, isn't it.

Hitler; We wear nazi T-shirts and love the hitler video. This guy also had his shirt colors and look what you got.

Mix in the West's total lack of concern to what is happening in arabia, bar lybia, , and the more disaffected parts of europe,if you had half a brain, you'd see here is next for gov. killings. Tak bai and krue say, more died there than in all the red riots put together.Thais killing THais, no problem, they do it in the hundreds on amonthly basis on the roads.

Nobody cares, nobody thinks, and they all will suffer. But, despite the collapse of the global economy, someone's brother will make all Thais rich.

Education is key. Knowledge is power.

Problem is, neither is easily found in Thailand.

RIP.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Soi Sauce

[trisailer]

Instead of worrying about what will happen when Taksin's party wins, which everyone seems to agree will happen, why doesn't he DO SOMETHING now!

He is the PM after all and if he is capable of solving any of these problems, how about getting it done. The best way to defeat the reds is to demonstrate that he can do something besides make promises.

When the reds win and Taksin's running the show he will get stuff done. That's what the people want. I don't worry about him being back in power because he did a very good job during his last 2 terms. The economy will love him and he'll throw the poor people a bone to shut them up for awhile.

Yes he did some bad things, but what politician hasn't george bush invaded Iraq and millions of civilians and solders have died. If we're going to deny people who get rich in office and kill a bunch of other bad people han it's going to become very hard to find anyone.

When Obama comes up for election next year he's going to have to convince people that he's actually accomplished something. That's the way it works.

[hanuman1]

Not all people who vote for the PTP will be ardent Thaksin lovers.

Anyone who thinks the Dems haven't been effective, anyone who wants constitutional change, anyone who dislikes the army's current role in politics, anyone who thinks censorship is on the increase, anyone who thinks prior governments have been unjustly ousted etc etc may choose PTP simply as a protest vote showing their dissatisfaction with the current situation.

In a way I feel sorry for Abhisit because he's going to lose votes on issues over which he has had little or no control.

I'm not saying a PTP government will bring sweetness and light, but think back yourselves to times when you've voted in your countries for an opposition party. Were you 'pushed' away from the incumbent party because you thought they were crap, or were you 'pulled' by the promises of the opposition?

Edited June 15, 2011 by hanuman1

[rubl]

Not all people who vote for the PTP will be ardent Thaksin lovers.

Anyone who thinks the Dems haven't been effective, anyone who wants constitutional change, anyone who dislikes the army's current role in politics, anyone who thinks censorship is on the increase, anyone who thinks prior governments have been unjustly ousted etc etc may choose PTP simply as a protest vote showing their dissatisfaction with the current situation.

In a way I feel sorry for Abhisit because he's going to lose votes on issues over which he has had little or no control.

I'm not saying a PTP government will bring sweetness and light, but think back yourselves to times when you've voted in your countries for an opposition party. Were you 'pushed' away from the incumbent party because you thought they were crap, or were you 'pulled' by the promises of the opposition?

Hear, hear!

Of course in Thailand there are also some who simply think Ms. Yingluck looks nice enough to vote for. In a way as good a reason for voting as many others I've read about

[somo]

The Democrats have not won an election for 20 years yet find themselves in power.

Installed by the army they have lost credibility and if the polls are corect the Thai people are once again about to reject them. How long this alliance of armed forces and a rejected party can continue to rule is an unknown but hopefully it won't be too long.

Say what you like about the PTP but if they turn out to be the peoples choice then accept it or else democracy in Thailand will take a backward step. If the Democrats once again collude with the army to thwart the wish of the electorate Thailand will be taking a dangerous step forward towards violent opposition to the dictatorship of the elite.

[rubl]

The Democrats have not won an election for 20 years yet find themselves in power.

Installed by the army they have lost credibility and if the polls are corect the Thai people are once again about to reject them. How long this alliance of armed forces and a rejected party can continue to rule is an unknown but hopefully it won't be too long.

Say what you like about the PTP but if they turn out to be the peoples choice then accept it or else democracy in Thailand will take a backward step. If the Democrats once again collude with the army to thwart the wish of the electorate Thailand will be taking a dangerous step forward towards violent opposition to the dictatorship of the elite.

With k. Thaksin activities in 2006 it seemed history might repeat itself. Snap elections, boycot, return as PM, step down, annulment, come back, as somewhat caretaker PM try to move family, relatives and cronies in important positions. Corruption, Taxsin 'no tax for me' S.. A year or two before 'democracy is not my goal'. 1933 rings a bell again.

As for 'Thai people reject the Dem's', interesting statement. If 37% vote Dem's, 40% PTP, would that be called 'rejected by Thais' ? What if it's closer to 40/42? Still 'Thais reject Dem's'?

All MP's in parliament elected, none rejected. Majority of MP's choose MP Abhisit as PM.

Say what you want, but try to stick to facts.

[Exsexyman]

Poor old deluded Bungalow nights. He with the picture of of the fragrant Miss Yingluck as his avatar. I hope he has shares in kleenex, he must have got through a few boxes in the past few weeks! Does he really believe what he is posting here? Is he a Thai or a Falang? My guess is a Falang who is being pussy whipped by his red shirt wife/ girlfriend. Whatever, maybe he should look at his dictionary,( if he has one), look up the word 'Gullible', then go and look in the mirror!. All will then become clear. Maybe!

[WeeGB]

Perhaps Mr Abhisit's failure to bring any of the "yellow shirts" to justice, will come back to haunt him in the election results. Plus the contemptible minimum wage rise given to Thailands poorest, while MPs (amongst others), were given double digit percentage increases. I, too, think Mr Abhisit seems to be a decent man, possibly too decent for the task at hand. There can only be two ways forward for any country, evolution or revolution. Evolution requires a well educated population, a corruption free society, and a fairer distribution of the wealth a country creates. Thailands biggest problem is, that with each year that passes, these aims seem to get further away.

[rubl]

K. Abhisit should be worried. He's being slandered again by k. Thaksin's PR-man Robert Amsterdam.

"Mark Abhisit, Creature of Habit

In his most recent interview with the Financial Times, the British-born Prime Minister of Thailand Mark Abhisit once again demonstrated that he is fundamentally a creature of habit, and that habit is lying.

On several occasions throughout the long discussion with journalists David Pilling and Tim Johnston, the Prime Minister was cornered, confronted, interrupted, and panicked, squirming out from under the weight of ... ..."

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/

Of course what Robert A. calls lying others would call the truth. Read the FT article and judge for yourself

[brd]

Monitoring the Thai Land for 4 decades it is unbelievable to witness so much non sense mostly to the detriment of the first PM acting as a real CIVIL SERVANT to benefit THAILAND not selfishly to himself neither to any one in his entourage and certainly not playing games, shuffling cars perpetually, as so many did previously once elected.

It is boring NOT to have the eyes wide open to SEE that PM Abhisit is walking on eggs in front of the evidences available that should put in jail all the culprits whom have used so much unrestrained violence to kill more than 90 Thai all of them innocent for being there at the wrong moment.

Mr. PM Abhisit has learnt in UK from the PM Mrs.Thatcher days when herself had to fight every one around, Irish terrorism included, to enforce her policies to grow Great Britain domestically and Internationally.

This is a pleasure to be able to understand PM Abhisit speeches translated in English ( smile ) expressing COMMON SENSE, PATIENCE, ACTIONS, DEDICATION and a LOT of RESPECT for his enemies.

In Thailand Our Majesty the King is The Highest Master of ALL Ceremonies deserving the Highest respect with every one assisting of course with the protection of The Royal Thai Army.

Let the people who want to work do their job and the talkers to shut up.

A return to the Thaksin days can only emulate an elite of corrupters to enrich themselves once more certainly NOT to enrich those manipulated called his followers.

Put up of shut up said Ronald Reagan.

Enough is enough VOTE Abhisit for all the Thai population well being and do NOT give a chance to the losers whom are looking for their own revenge.

end

[themockrat]

Abhisit's biggest post-election worry is probably finding an exile location.

[MAJIC]

Unless they changed their stance, I think the Amnesty didn't include those responsible for the deaths of 90+ protesters.

But it doe's include an Amnesty for Thaksin, the one that was responsible for the Deaths of 2500 to 3000 Alleged Drug Dealers,

Doe's this refresh your memory a little? or does it not count?

Be careful - a potentially libelous statement considering responsibility had not yet been determined/proven in a court of law

Alleged!

[samurai]

K. Abhisit should be worried. He's being slandered again by k. Thaksin's PR-man Robert Amsterdam.

"Mark Abhisit, Creature of Habit

In his most recent interview with the Financial Times, the British-born Prime Minister of Thailand Mark Abhisit once again demonstrated that he is fundamentally a creature of habit, and that habit is lying.

On several occasions throughout the long discussion with journalists David Pilling and Tim Johnston, the Prime Minister was cornered, confronted, interrupted, and panicked, squirming out from under the weight of ... ..."

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/

Of course what Robert A. calls lying others would call the truth. Read the FT article and judge for yourself

FT: Do you think it is acceptable to use snipers as crowd control? Human Rights Watch said this was not a conflict zone …

AV: Do we have now a clear case where snipers were used?

FT: We have pictures of people with sniper rifles and spotters?

AV: I have explained what they were doing. You’ve seen the footage. There was a guy who was about to set fire to a vehicle, he was shot in the foot.

FT: So none of the head shots were from snipers?

AV: We can’t say 100 per cent, but just getting a still picture of people up there trying to control the crowd and to conclude that these were snipers that kill people just isn’t quite what we have evidence for and we’ve had clear demonstrations of the footage of what I just said happened and if I wanted to shoot that man dead he could have done, but he shot him in the foot just to stop him setting fire to a vehicle.

Anyone with even basic familiarity of the facts of April 10th and May 19th must be breathless with amazement over Abhisit’s comments above. Notice how he handles these serious questions as though it were a lying game among children: “Oh, you can prove there were snipers? (shown evidence) OK, there were snipers, but they were only shooting people’s feet. (shown evidence that 77% of bullet wounds were “kill shots”) Well alright, so it happened, but I didn’t order them to kill, although my Deputy Prime Minister will continue to claim that the protesters ‘ran into bullets.’”

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/?p=788

[anotheruser]

Instead of worrying about what will happen when Taksin's party wins, which everyone seems to agree will happen, why doesn't he DO SOMETHING now!

He is the PM after all and if he is capable of solving any of these problems, how about getting it done. The best way to defeat the reds is to demonstrate that he can do something besides make promises.

When the reds win and Taksin's running the show he will get stuff done. That's what the people want. I don't worry about him being back in power because he did a very good job during his last 2 terms. The economy will love him and he'll throw the poor people a bone to shut them up for awhile.

Yes he did some bad things, but what politician hasn't george bush invaded Iraq and millions of civilians and solders have died. If we're going to deny people who get rich in office and kill a bunch of other bad people han it's going to become very hard to find anyone.

When Obama comes up for election next year he's going to have to convince people that he's actually accomplished something. That's the way it works.

He should perhaps buy more votes?

[Ricardo]

Abhisit's biggest post-election worry is probably finding an exile location.

But Thaksin promises no revenge, and Ms Yingluck promises an amnesty for all, so why would anyone need to go/stay in-exile ?

Meanwhile the polls still show two large minority-parties, with some smaller ones, as the likely outcome, so it is likely to be the usual haggling to form a coalition, as even Thaksin confesses that one-party politics was bad for the country in-the-past.

Perhaps PM-Abhisit worries that the Red-Shirt supporters of the PTP will not be content, even with some of their leaders safely elected as party-list MPs, if the landslide fails to materialise, and may not be willing to accept the result ? I don't blame him for worrying about this, all Thais should worry about it, the current divisions may well continue despite the election.

[timekeeper]

2001 Thaksin Shinawatra won the elections. Allegations of vote-buying forced partial re-run of poll. Thaksin formed a coalition government.

2008 8 July - Former parliamentary speaker and deputy leader, Yongyut Tiyapairat was stripped of his seat by Thai election officials for vote buying in northern Thailand during last December elections.

December 2 - A Constitutional Court ruled that the People Power Party (PPP) be disbanded because one of their party executives was convicted of vote buying during the December 2007 elections.

Answer this question here:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4488080

And how many people exactly sold their vote?

that's not for me to say, you called a previous post ''nonsense'' that said Thaksin bought votes

a little research states otherwise so that makes your red defense ''nonsense''

however it follows that where there are sellers, there will be buyers

so if there were no sellers there could be no conviction for buying

there were convictions for vote buying so obviously there were sellers of votes

simple enough for you...........?

No, its too much simplification and stupification for me. A nonsense debate.

Vote buying is not the reason why so many people voted for TRT, PPP or will vote for PT.

in your simple opinion only.........

[JurgenG]

I just noticed, reading the big tittles in the "News" forum, that on the 13 Abhisit is 'Very Optimistic' About Winning Election but two days later is now "very worried".

Does he suffer from bipolar disorder, which would explain his mood swings or is it the perspective that he is soon going to be unemployed that has finally hit home ? Because whatever the result of the election, he's going to give his position to Korn. IMO, the only reason this hasn't been done before is that Korn doesn't want to be the one associated with (one more) electoral defeat. Since they were classmates, Korn has always been the smart one.