Thai Democrats Go For Broke

[ianbaggie]

I think that the Bloomberg article was spot on as you Brit's would say.

Every election is a choice between the lessor of two evils but this one has some serious passion behind it. At this point I don't think you could pay red supporter 5,000 baht to vote for Abhist and to suggest that 500 baht payments is behind this movement is insulting

What do any of you think that happens when people get fed up and it reaches critical mass. Imagine the horrors of revolution or civil war. These things happen because leaders underestimate the anger of the people. All it takes is a leader to exploit that anger. I agree that Thalsin gave lip service to the problems of the poor, but none the less THEY believe that he's their guy. They believe that because they are desperate for change and leadership. Abhist and his yellows are not taking them seriously.

The Thai's watch the news. They see other people around the world rising up against their failed leaders.

Expectations are a very dangerous thing. China is managing things with a iron fist at the moment, but that strategy will not last long. People see their neighbors getting new cars and such and they want them too.

If the either Thaksin or Abhist or the real power in Thailand made a intelligent effort to reduce corruption they would get an overnight benefit of 5% of GDP. I'm guessing the underground economy is around 20% of GDP.The problem is that the people making all the money are the corrupt ones. When the King and Queen built the medical schools it sparked the medical tourism industry. Investing in schools and providing opportunity for the future gives people hope.

This government has had enough time to make some meaningful changes and lock up the red leaders who advocate violence. They could have prevented the BKK riots if they would have just prevented any weapons from entering the city. It is almost as though someone is working behind the curtain to cause failure. Maybe it's Thaksin. If that's the case let him back and let's see him solve the problems.

China has accomplished in a few years what took decades in other countries. Thailand demonstrates the perils of failing to adapt to that pace of change. It's falling further behind, becoming less competitive and slipping deeper into political dysfunction.

It would be better to see Thailand moving in the direction of South Korea, with an economy that can hold its own against China. That won't happen if Thaksinomics is reinstated.

Read more:

Given that quote - how can you praise thee article as being "spot on as you brits would say" and at the same time call for Thaksins return?? The article is vehemently opposed to Thaksins return!!

I dont think the anti red shirt fraternity of TV.com need to worry about Thaksisn return OR a PTP win. Inflation and its implied trade off with unemployment will destroy the PTP Governmnet in 2 years!! Just the same as Italy. Thailand isnt exempt from economic effects just because its the land of smiles.

Its best if PTP win the election - Thais MAY just learn something from that hard lesson - shame some of us have to be here with our wifes and children to face the hardship with them - when we have enough about us to see whats coming. Thaksins ego will prove to be Thailands undoing!!

[ianbaggie]

i dont know how you all see it......................but the most funny thing this days is that the DEMOCRATS say NO VOTE over propaganda papers they hand out everywhere in the city but still

call themselve democrats - this is such soooooooo funny and then call thaksin the thief or chinese is even more funny.

abisith is and was always far away of beeing democratic, he is a set up puppet by a interest groupe that only plan to play around with the needings of thai people

but never planed to realy fillfull them, luckely thais are awake this days and many so called "yellow" shirts get pissed of by this kind of agressive fooling tactics.

Ummm... Which Democrats are handing out No Vote leaflets?

paul43 is seriously misinformed. the PAD (or the "For heaven and earth party"), who are calling for a "No" vote, is not the Democrat party. The PAD are in fact taking votes away from the Democrat party.

paul43 is therefore not a credible member to be engaged with in a discussion on Thai politics.

might be a bit more polite to have a word off the group postings if you have a few words you need to say?

Personally - Im happy for him to express his views to another poster!! But then I always did believe in fair play and a right to voice opinions!!

[metisdead]

A number of posts have been removed as a poster made his reply to a post inside the quote tags. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature:

Replies to those posts have been removed as well.

Quoted posts that have had change of font colors have been edited as well:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[animatic]

'paul43' timestamp='1308387219' post='4497352'

i dont know how you all see it......................but the most funny thing this days is that the DEMOCRATS say NO VOTE over propaganda papers they hand out everywhere in the city but still

call themselve democrats - this is such soooooooo funny and then call thaksin the thief or chinese is even more funny.

abisith is and was always far away of beeing democratic, he is a set up puppet by a interest groupe that only plan to play around with the needings of thai people

but never planed to realy fillfull them, luckely thais are awake this days and many so called "yellow" shirts get pissed of by this kind of agressive fooling tactics.

Ummm... Which Democrats are handing out No Vote leaflets?

paul43 is seriously misinformed. the PAD (or the "For heaven and earth party"), who are calling for a "No" vote, is not the Democrat party. The PAD are in fact taking votes away from the Democrat party.

paul43 is therefore not a credible member to be engaged with in a discussion on Thai politics.

might be a bit more polite to have a word off the group postings if you have a few words you need to say?

Personally - Im happy for him to express his views to another poster!! But then I always did believe in fair play and a right to voice opinions!!

He can show he is misinformed at his own discretion. Or indiscretion.

But that lack of true understanding on a subject can also be pointed out.

Lack of understanding is a sound basis for not being thought credible to post on a subject, It doesn't mean they can't, just that there is little reason to listen, whether they find their misconceptions funny or not...

( font edited to maintain context, not emphasize something)

Edited June 19, 2011 by animatic

[whybother]

That must have been an interesting selection process that the reds did, deciding who was going to die for the cause. You can't be serious. Can you?

I don't know the exact timeline of events, but what I do know and is plain to everyone but you is that the violence didn't start until well into the protest. Many people believe that the weapons were brought to the protest after their people started getting killed by the government forces.

That a country would not protect it's people and property for fear of it appearing "undemocratic is, well, just plain foolish. The citizens of every country expect it's government to stop violence by any means possible. It is the law of the land. The Thai Army is almost 700,000 strong I think they could have managed it. Waiting until after people are incited to violence is incompetent. The more I learn about this event the more I believe that the Abhist government purposely incited the violence to make the reds look like a bunch of thugs. Apparently they convinced you.

I think you need to do a little learning history and facts before you engage in conversations that you know little about.

If YOU don't know the timeline of events, you have no idea when the violence started and when the killing started.

Maybe you should do some research and find out the timeline of events so you don't have to base your statements on your assumptions.

I stated my understanding of the timeline in a previous post. If you believe that's wrong, maybe you can point which part is wrong. Then you might be able to point out where the violence and killing started.

Can you point out what the government did to incite violence? Maybe they shouldn't have allowed the protest in the first place. Is that what you would suggest?

It's nice that you could co-ordinate with police when you were organising your protests. It's also good that you have full control over the people attending your protests to make sure that they don't get out of hand. Do you have the same problem with countries like England and France when their protests get out of hand?

This is a political fight. Having 700,000 army personnel on the streets during a "peaceful protest" wouldn't do anything for the government. Who would they be "protecting" anyway?

You're living in a dream world if you think the government could have stopped or controlled the protests without committing political suicide. I suppose that's what the red shirts wanted.

[trisailer]

China has accomplished in a few years what took decades in other countries. Thailand demonstrates the perils of failing to adapt to that pace of change. It's falling further behind, becoming less competitive and slipping deeper into political dysfunction.

It would be better to see Thailand moving in the direction of South Korea, with an economy that can hold its own against China. That won't happen if Thaksinomics is reinstated.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/sister-act-means-thailand-risks-a-return-to-dark-days-of-thaksinomics-20110617-1g7p3.html#ixzz1Pi80Gkf4

Given that quote - how can you praise thee article as being "spot on as you brits would say" and at the same time call for Thaksins return?? The article is vehemently opposed to Thaksins return!!

I don't think the anti red shirt fraternity of TV.com need to worry about Thaksisn return OR a PTP win. Inflation and its implied trade off with unemployment will destroy the PTP Government in 2 years!! Just the same as Italy. Thailand isn't exempt from economic effects just because its the land of smiles.

Its best if PTP win the election - Thais MAY just learn something from that hard lesson - shame some of us have to be here with our wifes and children to face the hardship with them - when we have enough about us to see whats coming. Thaksins ego will prove to be Thailand's undoing!!

I agree with the whole article, not just the one sentence you point out. The article also say that Abhisit "is trying so hard to keep his job that he is failing to do it" It said that Abhisit "has failed to attack corruption" and "cleaning things up appear to be beyond the abilities of Abhisit" "that a PTP win might encounter resistance from the generals who ousted Thaksin" and "an election loss for PTP might trigger mass protests" and "neither scenario would be positive for the Thai economy"

I don't know where you got the idea that I'm "calling for Thaksin's return" What I said was that he is the lessor of two evils. Abhisit is failing to do the job. The biggest challenge is corruption and who better to get a grip on it that a master at it?

Hear's another article you need to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksinomics

"There has been considerable controversy over the role Thaksinomics has played in Thailand's recovery from the 1997 Asian financial crisis. Among the most prominent advocates of Thaksin's economic policies is Morgan Stanley economist, Daniel Lian"

" The strong performance of the Thai economy beginning in 2002 was the immediate impact of Thaksinomics. In 2002, Thailand posted GDP growth of 5.3%, the fastest rate since 1996. The economy grew by another 7.1% in 2003. In 2004, in spite of a volatile external environment and rising oil prices, Thailand still managed a GDP growth rate of 6.3%

It appears that the PTP will win and I agree tha if they do than Thaksin will have to get the job done. I think he has a much better shot at reducing the corruption that is holding the country back and like I have said all along the Thai people, even his supporters are not going to give him a pass just because they like him. If you are so sure that he will fail than make some investments and profit from it.

I completely agree that Thailand is between a rock and a hard place. The question is who is most capable of fixing it. Thaksin's ego will be a benefit because he will not want to be the head of a failing economy and the people will be more likely to support his efforts. The more likely outcome is another takeover by the Army and another unconstitutional appointment of yet another experimental leader. If PTP loses than there will be blood in the streets for sure.

If your so sure "of what's coming" why don't you get out now while the gettings good?

This is politics. This is human stuff, happening all over the world. Soon it will be happening in the west, so where are you going to go to?

Don't be afraid. This is change, change is good. Your a part of history.

[animatic]

If you can't convince them with simple facts and logic.

Overload the senses with useless facts and distract form the point at hand.

Doesn't win the argument, but it DOES side track it.

The Dems need to point out how the Red Leaders took advantage of democratic rights to protest,

and used them in pushing for a way to topple the government through street violence causing an army response... which is is a coup d'etate by a different door, but the same end goal. Government falls their friends take over.

[sbk]

Defamatory posts will not be tolerated

Abusive posts will not be tolerated

Inflammatory posts will not be tolerated

And yet in one such post we've managed to break all three rules.

This nonsense will cease in these threads. Members will find their posting rights suspended if they cannot maintain civility and follow forum rules and this will be done without any prior notification other than the warn. This IS your notification.

TONE IT DOWN NOW