Democrat Party Says Provoking 'Red Shirts' Is Not Plan For Rally At Bangkok's Ratchaprasong

[MrChangers]

Abhisit has been harping on reconciliation and now why this provocation..and to explain why 90+ civilians were slaughtered..

Simply because of lies like the one above 90+ civilians were not slaughtered.

Yes they were you are in denial. To try and deny this goes against any human logic

[samurai]

It's fairly obvious now the reds/Pheu Thai/Thaksin/Shinawatras will win this election. Then what? Does anyone seriously believe that victory will lead to peace and reconciliation?

PT don't make a secret out of it who thinks for them. All the smaller parties, beside the Dems, keep the option open to join a coalition with them. Time to get over it is the message.

Another porky! BJT ring a bell?

BJT?

BJT never claimed that they would not join a PT coalition under no circumstances.

Newin already explained all the details how this could work out and made to be possible.

Rejected by PT during the pre-election time. With the election results the stance might change. Time to compromise for the sake peace and its the country that needs them now working together .... It are politicians, what you expect?

[MrChangers]

Abhisit has been harping on reconciliation and now why this provocation..and to explain why 90+ civilians were slaughtered..

Simply because of lies like the one above 90+ civilians were not slaughtered.

ok you going to settle for 70, 71, 82? Try and get a grip. 1 human being is 1 too many. You are in denial.

Would that be the one Thai soldier murdered on video after surrendering? Or one of the other soldiers murdered while just doing their lawful job? Perhaps the lady waiting for her train when some (confessed red-shirt) fired a M-79 grenade at her? Perhaps we should consider all those who escaped a fiery death when the (confessed red-shirt) RPG didn't set fire to the fuel tank farm. How many lives were OK to settle a (confessed red-shirt) political point of view?Who is in bloody denial?

Thai soldier .see above.. as an ex paramedic I have reservations over that video and I want to see different camera angles before commenting, as for the other comments please place before me the evidence not hearsay. Lots of brackets, well done you have found that on your keyboard

[MrChangers]

It's fairly obvious now the reds/Pheu Thai/Thaksin/Shinawatras will win this election. Then what? Does anyone seriously believe that victory will lead to peace and reconciliation?

PT don't make a secret out of it who thinks for them. All the smaller parties, beside the Dems, keep the option open to join a coalition with them. Time to get over it is the message.

So it will be a question of who has the greatest influence over the smaller parties - Thaksin and his millions or the Dems and their millions. Plus the army. I'm forecasting PTP gets the most votes but Dems to form government with money plus (smaller parties influenced by) guns. Democracy Thai style. It's exotic, but isn't that why we live here?

Yep with you there and screw the rest

[Rinrada]

If you were Thai which one would you vote for. :jap:

[jonclark]

OK, alleged. Who's playing the FEAR card now?

The Dems playing the Fear card. PT wants to bring *Thaksin back*, they say. to appeal those people who fear/hate Thaksin.

Problem: Thaksin was the most popular PM ever, during his days as PM. And it is only a tiny minority who actually hate him or hate the reds. Many people still support Thaksin and/or the reds. And probably much more don't care, don't hate Thaksin and don't mind if he would come back or not.

The Dems playing a game that they cannot really win, alleged target are the undecided voters, but they have probably those in mind who would choose the NO Vote option. For that ultra wing they are now trying to look a little bit like tough girls.

So you are saying he is, or was popular? Ok, then let's have a look at the Proportional votes of the 2007 election by comparing the valid votes of all adult citizens who were eligible to participate.

In 2007 TRT Party received 14,071,799 of the Proportional votes, and the Dems received 14,084,265 of the Proportional votes.

Can we say that in 2007 Abhisit was more popular than Thaksin (Samak)?

Luckily, now the Proportional votes are becoming more important then that they were in 2005. In 2005 it was all about the Constituency votes.

Or let's look at it this way. From all the 38,981,412 Thai People that were eligible to vote in 2007, TRT Party received 14,071,799 votes.

Why the huge decline in votes in 2007 from the landslide wins in 2001 and 2005? Because people were fed up with over-the-top corruption and started voting for the Dems.

I believe that today his propaganda machine is trying to make him very popular again by portraying him as the "warrior for justice". Our own Super Hero. And it might work.

Remember, the best way to confuse (and then brain-wash) people, is by making them believe the exact opposite.

.

PPP won 199 of possible 400 seats in the constituencies. they won 34 seats of possible 80 seats in the proportional voting.

And that after the gerrymandering of the constituencies and the voting system by the military.

This election will have different constituencies again.

For the proportional vote there isn't any Samak anymore, but Yingluck and she is very popular according to the polls.

The promising new comer - 'lets give it a try' - bonus for Abhisit in 2007 don't exist anymore and people have seen how is under the Dems. Check the latest polls how convincing it was.

Though you didn't check polls??

[OzMick]

ok you going to settle for 70, 71, 82? Try and get a grip. 1 human being is 1 too many. You are in denial.

You missed the point ------ if it were all civilians it would have been tragic. Instead it was civilians, soldiers,reporters etc .... many killed by weapons the military didn't have such as M-79 grenade launchers. That puts the ROE into a different place. It wasn't a slaughter nor a massacre --- it was a prolonged engagement against an armed insurgency in an urban environment who were mingled with protesters and using war weapons. People putting this on the army and using emotive words like "slaughtered" and "massacre" are the ones in denial.

Missed the point? So civilians, reporters -not civilians??? look you are faltering and as for grenade launchers you have no idea. You do not even know what one looks like and yes the Thai military do have them and any other weapons the US/UK can sell them before the French and Italians. Go back to school.

Well I know what one looks like, and from 50m could hit you square up your RRs with one, having had quite a bit of practice. Components for launchers were found being made in BKK and the RTA specifically stated that they were 1/ likely to appear and 2/ they would NOT be used by the RTA. As they are quite distinctive in appearance, ANY RTA soldier seen/pictured carrying one would have given the lie to that statement - but it didn't happen.

One red shirt caught with M79 and RPG rounds has confessed to firing them in BKK.

[timekeeper]

Abhisit has been harping on reconciliation and now why this provocation..and to explain why 90+ civilians were slaughtered..

Simply because of lies like the one above 90+ civilians were not slaughtered.

ok you going to settle for 70, 71, 82? Try and get a grip. 1 human being is 1 too many. You are in denial.

red shirts sponsored black mercenaries drew first blood by murdering army personel simply doing their job

the red shirts embraced and celebrated them for doing so

Sae Daeng was a celebrity with many red shirts wanting his autograph and a picture with him

you want to celebrate a murderer so why the double standards over the Army when they too returned fire with live ammo ?

reds started it, army finished it.

now the reds are crying in their tom yung goong

the reds were Thaksins paid for cannon fodder

they needed red martyrs and they got them and my god they have been worth every penny

i hope they are still on the payroll as they are still working for the red cause harder than most of the living reds

theres hardly a minute goes by on TV without someone referring to them, maybe they should get repeat fees?

fact is they were there vountarily, illegally and were gladly harbouring and taking care of violent criminals and murderers in their midst

so they died for the red cause,so what? many said they would be willing to do so, they got their wish

som nom na

give it a rest

who cries for the soldiers and civilains the reds maimed and killed

they were Thais too, some just doing their job..............

oh forgot, double standards.

[OzMick]

]

ok you going to settle for 70, 71, 82? Try and get a grip. 1 human being is 1 too many. You are in denial.

Would that be the one Thai soldier murdered on video after surrendering? Or one of the other soldiers murdered while just doing their lawful job? Perhaps the lady waiting for her train when some (confessed red-shirt) fired a M-79 grenade at her? Perhaps we should consider all those who escaped a fiery death when the (confessed red-shirt) RPG didn't set fire to the fuel tank farm. How many lives were OK to settle a (confessed red-shirt) political point of view?Who is in bloody denial?

Thai soldier .see above.. as an ex paramedic I have reservations over that video and I want to see different camera angles before commenting, as for the other comments please place before me the evidence not hearsay. Lots of brackets, well done you have found that on your keyboard

In case you missed it the first time I replied to this inanity:

What do you expect, multi-cameras, slo-mo and close-ups? As an ex-paramedic, can you appreciate that a living man put his hands up and ended up a corpse thanks to a bullet?

All the other events which you dismiss as hearsay, and a red-shirt confessing, are in the public domain. Do your own bloody homework.

You stated "1 human being is 1 too many", yet when clear evidence is given that MANY were killed by your team, you can't admit it. Were their lives worth a political point?

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? "

Mohandas Gandhi

A pity he can't comment on the red cause, getting a billionaire his few dollars back.

Edited June 19, 2011 by OzMick

[timekeeper]

thats besto ne ive heard to date no one except Taksin and reds even as a total red hater i had to laugh at that one. Well done for best joke of year

BANGKOK, June 18 -- The Democrat Party is planning to hold a major election campaign at Bangkok's Ratchaprasong intersection on June 23 while the party's leaders said they would explain the facts to the public on involved incidents.

No this has to be the best sick joke of the decade

the police always run re-enactments of the crime

this is perfect place to expose the red conspirators.........

[timekeeper]

It's fairly obvious now the reds/Pheu Thai/Thaksin/Shinawatras will win this election. Then what? Does anyone seriously believe that victory will lead to peace and reconciliation?

you think?

not seen any fat ladies singing yet.........

Edited June 19, 2011 by timekeeper

[OzMick]

I find it strange that we've had 3 pages of this thread and no one has yet complained - as they did when the red shirt movement held rallies there - about the total lack of consideration given to the ordinary people who work in or use the Ratchprasong area to commute through on a daily basis, and the disruption and loss this event will doubtless bring them.

Did I miss the thread dedicated to the Dems' traffic-easing contingency plans and compensation scheme for time or money lost due to this event?

Or does everyone automatically think that the number of people in attendance is hardly going to raise such concerns?

Just seems strange, that's all.

"....the number of people in attendance ........" is not the issue, rather it is the duration. One day will not cripple a small business like the prior disaster, and strangely, the only compensation offered for the prior event came from those holding the latter. Has there been an apology, let alone a compensation offer made by the red shirt movement? Or are the snivelling, grasping subsidised poor above that?

I was poor once. My fathers advice was "Get a haircut and get a real job" which translates to "Stop whining that you don't get enough money for your rice and find employment that pays better."

So you were a long haired rice farmer in a previous life and that experience has produced this "wisdom". Or perhaps, less tongue in cheek,we could assume you are approaching this with a western mindset? Lets take this a little further, say all rice farmers stop whining, move to Bangkok to work as labourers or tuk yuk drivers, as per your advice, just who is going to feed the nation? I'm sure the "snivelling, grasping subsidised poor" are waiting for your advice, not to mention the democrats who I'm sure are glad to have your support - They're welcome to it.

The democrats are paying B50,000,000,000 per season to prop up the price of rice. PTP are offering B115,000,000,000. Why, because 15 odd million out of around 39 million workers are employed in an industry which is labour intensive and produces proportionately little wealth. If 2/3 moved to another industry, and the remainder farmed more efficiently, they might all get a reasonable income.

If Isaan seceded, the rest of Thailand could buy rice at B6,000/t from Viet Nam, rather than the B11,000 they pay now, or B15,000 PTP propose. Yingluk agreed to B20,000, but that was only a campaign promise.

How many schools and hospitals could be built each year for B50 billion? How long do you prop up an uncompetitive industry? Do you let the country fall apart to do it?

I've never been a rice farmer, never will. But I've spent enough time with them though to know the hours are great but the money sux.

[whybother]

If you were Thai which one would you vote for. :jap:

What election are the two of them standing for?

[Who, me ?]

If you were Thai which one would you vote for. :jap:

How about we put Abhisit picture next to Arisman asking reds to burn Bangkok and ask the same question ?

Your post is an absolute non sense....

[jackdawson]

note to self ; don't go anywhere near ratchaprasong this thursday

[samurai]

This is the video you are referring to.

There's really no need for reconcilliation. If the Reds stand for anything other than Thaksin and his largess, they should abandon him and form a new movement seeking whatever it was that Thaksin gave them (other than the cost of their votes) and return to civilised norms. The criminal element are thus marginalised and for everyone else, it's win-win. There's no reason to negotiate with them except to demand their disbandment.

There is something drastically wrong with this video and not speaking from a political party but as an ex-paramedic. Something is not right, if anyone can show me the camera from a different angle then please do so

That soldier isn't dead, so he wasn't killed and murdered by the reds as some say here.

If you were in Thailand at that time, watched and listened to Thai news on TV or read the newspaper you would know.

Don't try to distort the truth with some short clips from youtube. You just fool yourself into false beliefs.

[whybother]

That soldier isn't dead, so he wasn't killed and murdered by the reds as some say here.

If you were in Thailand at that time, watched and listened to Thai news on TV or read the newspaper you would know.

Don't try to distort the truth with some short clips from youtube. You just fool yourself into false beliefs.

He was shot and looks badly injured in that he's not moving around much. Isn't that bad enough?

[samurai]

That soldier isn't dead, so he wasn't killed and murdered by the reds as some say here.

If you were in Thailand at that time, watched and listened to Thai news on TV or read the newspaper you would know.

Don't try to distort the truth with some short clips from youtube. You just fool yourself into false beliefs.

He was shot and looks badly injured in that he's not moving around much. Isn't that bad enough?

Looking knocked out on a youtube video and being carried to a med van or killed and murdered by a mob is quite a difference, right?

[whybother]

That soldier isn't dead, so he wasn't killed and murdered by the reds as some say here.

If you were in Thailand at that time, watched and listened to Thai news on TV or read the newspaper you would know.

Don't try to distort the truth with some short clips from youtube. You just fool yourself into false beliefs.

He was shot and looks badly injured in that he's not moving around much. Isn't that bad enough?

Looking knocked out on a youtube video and being carried to a med van or killed and murdered by a mob is quite a difference, right?

A shot gets fired and everyone clears away from him. Suddenly the people who were attacking him are seeing if he's OK. Would people clear away from him if he was only knocked out?

Being knocked out and being shot (I don't know whether he lived or not) is quite different. But it is quite clear from everyone's reaction that he was shot.

[trisailer]

The democrats are paying B50,000,000,000 per season to prop up the price of rice. PTP are offering B115,000,000,000. Why, because 15 odd million out of around 39 million workers are employed in an industry which is labour intensive and produces proportionately little wealth. If 2/3 moved to another industry, and the remainder farmed more efficiently, they might all get a reasonable income.

If Isaan seceded, the rest of Thailand could buy rice at B6,000/t from Viet Nam, rather than the B11,000 they pay now, or B15,000 PTP propose. Yingluk agreed to B20,000, but that was only a campaign promise.

How many schools and hospitals could be built each year for B50 billion? How long do you prop up an uncompetitive industry? Do you let the country fall apart to do it?

I've never been a rice farmer, never will. But I've spent enough time with them though to know the hours are great but the money sux.

You make a good point. The subsidies are a short term fix, but are ruinous in the long term. Some areas of Thailand grow premium strains of rice which have a higher value than Vietnam or Chinese rice. They should focus on the "value added" products and rather than prop up the prices, which seems to only benefit the millers, they should invest in growing value added rice. In addition, Thailand has a perfect growing environment for many value added fruits and vegetables. The government should be investing in supporting the transition to these more profitable crops.

The US has subsidies that pay farmers not to plant wheat which keeps the price high. There are many things that can be done to improve the lives of the farmers and give them hope and every one of them are also beneficial to the countries economy. This road has been "gone down" by most agricultural countries.

I also agree with your point about training people for other industries. This is another area that can benefit the economy and the people. Thailand has over 800 vocational schools and many that teach English. Many more are needed. Most of the people you see working in 7-11 have college degrees, they have invested all that time for nothing because the demand isn't there and the quality is poor. The country could assist it's citizens find work overseas. The US has a summer work visa and most of the resorts where I am from employ thousands of eastern Europeans. They make more money in 3 months than the average Thai in a year, but they need to get English skills. They need to stop talking about investing in education and do something visible.

All this will cost a lot of money for sure, but what will be the cost if they don't? The SET has already lost 10%. The failure to act, whoever is elected, will likely produce a economic disaster that will take decades to fix.

[rixalex]

If you were Thai which one would you vote for. :jap:

Guess it depends on whether her interviews in Thai are anything like as nonsensical as this:

[Ricardo]

It's fairly obvious now the reds/Pheu Thai/Thaksin/Shinawatras will win this election. Then what? Does anyone seriously believe that victory will lead to peace and reconciliation?

If you swallow Thaksin's line wholesale, PTP/Red-Shirts will win a serious majority, and then seek an (unnecessary) coalition with one or two tiny-parties, probably to make it harder for the Dems to form a counter-coalition later-on to unseat them again.

But I repeat, this is what Thaksin & Ms Yingluck & the other PTP-leaders say, and want the voters to believe, however I would suggest that they're over-stating their case to try to keep momentum, but that the likely result remains no-overall-majority but instead two large minority-parties both looking to build a coalition in order to govern.

I would definitely agree that due to the lacklustre-campaign run by the Dems thus far, and the fresh face & family-name of Ms Yingluck, I would expect PTP to be the larger of the two minority-parties. All purely IMO of course.

It isn't misleading to count the seats that were actually won. Its a representative democracy and what matters are the number of seats in the House of Representatives.

But okay the 48.5% seats are a result of the 2007 voting system. 2011 is it very different.

Did they lost the proportional vote?

Adam Carr's Election Archive has two different results

http://psephos.adam-...ies/t/thailand/

ELECTION COMMISSION OF THAILAND FIGURES
====================================================================

PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION SEATS
=============================================================================
Party                                      Votes       %        Seats    
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thai Nation Party (PCT)                     1,440,287  04.4       4
Neutral Democratic Party (PMT)                480,893  01.5       -
People's Power Party (PPP)                 13,166,335  40.3      34
Royalist People's Party (PPR)                 580,768  01.8       1
Democrat Party (PP)                        12,765,281  39.1      33
For the Motherland Party (PPP)              1,863,156  05.7       7
Thais United Nat Dev Party (PRJTCP)           894,391  02.7       1
Others                                      1,495,630  04.6       -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total                                      32,686,741            80
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

MCOT MEDIA WEBSITE VOTING FIGURES
================================================================
PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION SEATS
=============================================================================
Party                                      Votes       %        
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thai Nation Party (PCT)                     1,545,282  04.4       
Neutral Democratic Party (PMT)                528,464  01.5       
People's Power Party (PPP)                 14,071,799  39.6      
Royalist People's Party (PPR)                 750,158  02.1       
Democrat Party (PP)                        14,084,265  39.6      
For the Motherland Party (PPP)              1,981,021  05.6       
Thais United Nat Dev Party (PRJTCP)           948,544  02.7       
Others                                      1,626,234  04.6
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total                                      35,535,767
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are your sources to speak of a defeat?

We are getting close. You finally start to realise that the Proportional votes might be the most important in judging a person's or party's popularity.

If you look at the trend between 2001, 2005 and 2007, you might think that 2011 might be even worse for Thaksin.

My source is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007

Wikipedia

It is misleading to quote only the percentage of seats, which I agree with Samurai does determine who takes power, but without also quoting the proportional-vote, which gives as clearer view of the relative-popularity of the two parties at that last election. Those are two slightly-different things.

Nobody would deny that PM-Samak as Thaksin's nominee ("A vote for me is a vote for Thaksin" ?) ran a strong campaign in December-2007, and that PPP got most seats, due partly to their success in the constituency-votes, where voters can get more-than-one vote each.

It also shows that they were actually neck-and-neck at-that-time, on a one-man/one-vote basis, since when many things have happened.

The return & departure again of Thaksin, the conviction & seizure of part of his assets, the departure from PPP/PTP of a faction of some 40 MPs & the expulsion for lack-of-loyalty (or whatever) of another handful of MPs, the PAD's protests at Thaksin's return & PPP's attempts to whitewash him, two years of UDD/DAAD trouble on the streets culminating in last year's tragic events, the limited-achievements of two-and-a-half years of a Democrat-led coalition-government, all these things will have an impact on the relative-votes this time round.

Only two weeks to go, before we see who gains & who loses, and just how true Thaksin's 'spin'-forecast of a landslide 300-seats is.

Interesting times.

[koosdeboer]

A good move by the democrats.

My prediction:

Both Pheu Thai and the democrats will be disqualified because of bullying. No double standards any more.

Miss Thailand will be the next minister president because we only want a nice face.

The government will be formed by the only party that didn't buy votes, the no vote party.

Thaksin will be allowed to be at the wedding of his daughter at the Prae Vear temple and will kiss the dirty soil in the disputed territory.

[Ricardo]

So it will be a question of who has the greatest influence over the smaller parties - Thaksin and his millions or the Dems and their millions. Plus the army. I'm forecasting PTP gets the most votes but Dems to form government with money plus (smaller parties influenced by) guns. Democracy Thai style. It's exotic, but isn't that why we live here?

Yep with you there and screw the rest

I think hanuman1 is spot-on with this summary ! Well said, including the after-thought !

As to "screw the rest", well whoever wins, a large minority will not see their party in-power. That's democracy for you.

[xminator]

If they didnt want to provoke they wouldnt chose this venue for a political rally. Maybe PT should hold a political rally at Suvarnabhumi to "explain things". My guess is that the democrats are a bit desperate because the opposition strategy is a very different one from what the democrat campaigners expected it to be. Or they just keep going for their scripted strategy where they expected the opposition to attack them from every possible angle every day for a month. Instead their message have been reconsiliation and a silence about what happened since 2007 that is no coincidence.

[jdinasia]

ok you going to settle for 70, 71, 82? Try and get a grip. 1 human being is 1 too many. You are in denial.

You missed the point ------ if it were all civilians it would have been tragic. Instead it was civilians, soldiers,reporters etc .... many killed by weapons the military didn't have such as M-79 grenade launchers. That puts the ROE into a different place. It wasn't a slaughter nor a massacre --- it was a prolonged engagement against an armed insurgency in an urban environment who were mingled with protesters and using war weapons. People putting this on the army and using emotive words like "slaughtered" and "massacre" are the ones in denial.

Missed the point? So civilians, reporters -not civilians??? look you are faltering and as for grenade launchers you have no idea. You do not even know what one looks like and yes the Thai military do have them and any other weapons the US/UK can sell them before the French and Italians. Go back to school.

Yeppers missed the point and now are making it personal. I find it telling that when you replied you didn't mention soldiers. The fact is people on both sides (and worse (people on no side!) died. I have finished school ... I don't think there is any reason for me to "go back to school" .. do you?

The point is, as stated, the army was dealing with a heavily armed insurgency that had m79's and used them. (The army has them in their arsenal, there is not a single report of them being issued to the security forces, nor a single instance where they were seen to be carrying them) ---- "You do not even know what they look like" --- I understand that you may be new to all this but there are plenty of pictures of them here on TVF. What I know is obviously beyond your limited scope of knowledge. (Think about that ... how could you possibly know what I know or do not know?) The fact that even a casual reader of TVF during the time period from 2008 until May 2010 probably knows what one looks like.

So yes, not only do I have an idea, I actually know. You are still missing the point that the reds were heavily armed and that they used the grenade launchers to kill military, reporters etc ... What we don't know is how many civilians were killed by each side. We do know that the military did NOT kill 90+ civilians.

[whybother]

If they didnt want to provoke they wouldnt chose this venue for a political rally. Maybe PT should hold a political rally at Suvarnabhumi to "explain things". My guess is that the democrats are a bit desperate because the opposition strategy is a very different one from what the democrat campaigners expected it to be. Or they just keep going for their scripted strategy where they expected the opposition to attack them from every possible angle every day for a month. Instead their message have been reconsiliation and a silence about what happened since 2007 that is no coincidence.

What would PT gain by "explaining things" about the airport siege? Do you think a "look what the yellow shirts did" will work against the Democrats? Maybe it's more likely to work FOR the Democrats, since the yellow shirt party are advocating a "No Vote".

[lannarebirth]

This is the video you are referring to.

There's really no need for reconcilliation. If the Reds stand for anything other than Thaksin and his largess, they should abandon him and form a new movement seeking whatever it was that Thaksin gave them (other than the cost of their votes) and return to civilised norms. The criminal element are thus marginalised and for everyone else, it's win-win. There's no reason to negotiate with them except to demand their disbandment.

There is something drastically wrong with this video and not speaking from a political party but as an ex-paramedic. Something is not right, if anyone can show me the camera from a different angle then please do so

That soldier isn't dead, so he wasn't killed and murdered by the reds as some say here.

If you were in Thailand at that time, watched and listened to Thai news on TV or read the newspaper you would know.

Don't try to distort the truth with some short clips from youtube. You just fool yourself into false beliefs.

Thai news reported him as being killed. Are you saying they were wrong about that? I'm prepared to believe you, show your evidence.

[hyperdimension]

Correct! The glovers have to come off over the final two weeks. Thaksin's propaganda machine is running too fast. It is doing exactly what it is sopposed to be doing; turning Thaskin en the reds from aggressors into victims.

You have to admit that the guy is good.

He has enough money to hire some of the "best" perception management / public relations people in the world for propaganda and strategy. e.g. Amsterdam & Peroff, who outsource their campaign work to K Social Media Consulting LLC:

About KSM

K Social Media Consulting LLC (KSM) is a social media, public relations, and issues advocacy company founded in New York, NY by James T. Kimer on Jan. 1, 2008, relocated to Washington DC in 2010. Services include media relations, social media campaigns, business and issues advocacy blog creation and maintenance, content development, and corporate communications initiatives. KSM is specialized in handling international political and business issues, with experience in Europe, Latin America, Africa, and Asia.

With several years experience running full-scale social media campaigns, KSM is one of a new breed of public relations agencies that look beyond traditional print and broadcast media to focus on establishing a strong presence in online communities. Our strategy is to achieve authenticity and credibility by contributing real value to the conversation; the goal is to avoid the tired and easily ignored vocabulary of marketing by bringing a transparent voice to connect you with the desired audience.

With a focus on high-quality, personal service and committed partnerships, KSM services a select group of clients, including the law firm Amsterdam & Peroff and its Founding Partner Robert Amsterdam. Our role is not just limited to online activities and coordination of press relations, but rather the contribution and innovation of ideas and strategies to help clients achieve their goals.

James Kimer formerly worked as a Senior Account Executive at the award-winning New York public relations agency LVM Group (2005-2007), and got his start in the industry at the Madrid, Spain office of global firm Fleishman-Hillard (2000-2003). Past clients have included Rolls-Royce, Lockheed Martin, 3M, and a number of major law firms. He has built and maintained successful blogs and social media campaigns on behalf of various clients since 2006.

James holds a Bachelor of Arts in psychology from Lewis & Clark College (Portland, OR) and a Joint Master of Arts in journalism and Latin American studies from New York University. A native of Minneapolis, MN, he is a published writer, active blogger, and fluent Spanish speaker.

The operations of K Social Media Consulting LLC are guided by the Code of Professional Standards for the practice of public relations as adopted by the Public Relations Society of America (PRSA).

[SkyHigh]

I wonder what's the point doing a rally at this junction. To point out once again the the Red shirt burned Bangkok ? that the black men killed people ? that the reds were actually armed and acted as a terrorist ? Bangkokians has known all of this already. Whether they believe or not will result on July 3. And it's looking like gonna be an epic fail for them if they continue to stick with Thaksin-this, Thaksin-that, Thaksin-those. At this point there is no one to blaim but themselve. The dems has run an incredibly poor rally.