Size Does Matter

[katabeachbum]

The American "Insurance Institute for Highway Safety" has released real world stats for fatal accidents. Conclusion is, the larger vehicle, the less chance of fatalaty in vehicle.

Recent years crash tests have more and more often ranked small cars as safe with 4 and 5 stars in barrier crash tests. However the above stats from real world driving say, in general, the larger vehicle the less chance of occupants die.

In each vehicle class, the lighter vehicles has highest number of fatalities

Vehicles available in TH at the very low end of the rankings are Nissan 350Z, Chev Aveo, Chev Colorado/Izu Dmax. A Nissan pickup is also unabale to protect its occupants, but not sure this is Navara. Navara performed terrible in EuroNPCAP.

[seriouseats]

lol Aveo.

know 3 people with one and they're in my top 5 of dumbest persons i have ever met.

[transam]

lol Aveo.

know 3 people with one and they're in my top 5 of dumbest persons i have ever met.

Have l missed something here. Please explain a little further.

[seriouseats]

Even the women who work at chevrelot with 0 knowledge of cars can't hold a straight face when they're trying to sell an aveo.

But seriously, the 2 people i have met they all have built up their small business the worst way possible and are making as little as they could on it. The last one is just you random idiot who water his office chair in the street while wearing nothing but underwear

[MoonRiverOasis]

Seeing as this started off about crash safety, then sort of moved into a Chev bashing episode, I think this video is topical from both sides

[Atmos]

Could the OP please supply a link to this report.

I did not see this report at the organisation's website www.iihs.org

Thanks

The most recent report would appear to say something quite different to the OP

May 26, 2011

New crash tests: small cars improve and the top performers also are fuel sippers

ARLINGTON, VA — Six of 13 small cars recently evaluated by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety earn the TOP SAFETY PICK award, and none earns a poor rating in any of 4 tests. This is a turnaround from a few years ago when small cars struggled to earn top safety ratings. The new tests include hybrids and gasoline-only models that are among the most fuel-efficient vehicles available in the U.S. market.

The ratings are based on performance in front, side, rollover, and rear impact evaluations. Cars that earn the top rating of good in each test and have available electronic stability control (ESC) qualify for TOP SAFETY PICK. Winners are the 2012 Ford Focus and Honda Civic, along with the 2011 Hyundai Elantra, Lexus CT 200h hybrid, Nissan Juke, and Toyota Prius hybrid. The Civic, CT 200h, Elantra, Focus, and Prius have at least one version with a government fuel economy rating of at least 40 miles per gallon on the highway. The Dodge Caliber, Honda CR-Z and Insight hybrids, Nissan Sentra and Versa, Scion xD, and Suzuki SX4 also were rated but didn't earn TOP SAFETY PICK.

"The list of cars with the best fuel economy now includes those with the highest crash test ratings in their class, too," says David Zuby, the Institute's chief research officer. "At a time of high gasoline prices, consumers have never had a bigger selection of small cars that earnTOP SAFETY PICK."

[richard_smith237]

I drive both a 4x4 and a Merc A class in Thailand.

I feel significantly safer in the 4x4.

Being of the 'Never in the Wrong while driving' variety of drivers... If I have a car accident it will be someone else's fault...

Or more to the point - I suspect its highly likely that if I have an accident it will be because someone has pulled out in front of me. In my 4x4 this is less likely to happen simply because my vehicle is more visible.

BUT... I suspect that if ALL cars on the Road were Merc A classes or cars of similar weight and size, there would be fewer deaths than if ALL cars on the Road were Big heavy Range Rovers.

The issue here is that in an accident between a modern large car and a modern small car the occupants of the larger car will be safer... I can't see this being a surprise to anyone.

[Atmos]

Since it was quoted as 'world wide stats' - another factor can be age of the vehicles; must be people here who have been to New Zealand and noticed the old cars on the road there (not as bad as Cuba, but getting there).

Would you rather be in a big 1990 car - no airbags, limited safety features/design, probably been patched up from a few accidents already - or in a small modern car with all the safety aspects?

19 JANUARY 2011 Average age of a NZ car now exceeds 13 years

- abnormally large number of 1995, 1996 and 1997 vehicles (which represent 21% of the total market).

- there are more 1990 aged vehicles on our roads than vehicles registered new in 2010.

- aging fleet must be of concern to the likes of MOT, ACC (Accident Compensation Commission) , Ministry of Health, local authorities and others who have responsibility for the health and safety of New Zealanders

[MoonRiverOasis]

Could the OP please supply a link to this report.

I did not see this report at the organisation's website www.iihs.org

I'm not the OP, and not sure if this is the right doc, but it appears to be in basic support of the OP's post: http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4605.pdf

The issue here is that in an accident between a modern large car and a modern small car the occupants of the larger car will be safer... I can't see this being a surprise to anyone.

Yep, it's simple inertia - the smaller/lighter car's crumple zones and structure simply has to deal with more of it coming at it.

Since it was quoted as 'world wide stats'

I beleive the OP said "real world"..

As for NZ, it's one of the few countries in the world without any domestic auto industry at all to speak of, and so doesn't have a taxation regime that imposes limits on imports. The market there has been flooded with dirt-cheap used Japanese imports, that are pretty hard to pass up on given the price differential with new cars there. Also, just like countries such as the USA and Australia, New Zealand has a lot of younger (read: teenage), car buyers who are by definition less affluent, and less concerned by things such as safety or refinement - which always help the skew the average vehicle age figures..

[katabeachbum]

Could the OP please supply a link to this report.

I did not see this report at the organisation's website www.iihs.org

I'm not the OP, and not sure if this is the right doc, but it appears to be in basic support of the OP's post: http://www.iihs.org/...docs/sr4605.pdf

The issue here is that in an accident between a modern large car and a modern small car the occupants of the larger car will be safer... I can't see this being a surprise to anyone.

Yep, it's simple inertia - the smaller/lighter car's crumple zones and structure simply has to deal with more of it coming at it.

Since it was quoted as 'world wide stats'

I beleive the OP said "real world"..

Thanks MRO :jap:

Didnt have the link as my info is from printed reading, and to windy in Phuket today to open link, frequent dc, so still cant confirm.

yes, I said "real world", during 2006-2009. Stats based on 2005-2008 vehicles in the US only, as thats where IIHS works.

Some of my point is that many small cars have performed well in studio crash tests past decade, making us believe small cars are safe. Choosing between being in a Chevy Aveo with airbags, crashing a Vigo without airbags, I am in no doubt I would prefere the Vigo.

[transam]

[

I beleive the OP said "real world"..

Thanks MRO :jap:

Didnt have the link as my info is from printed reading, and to windy in Phuket today to open link, frequent dc, so still cant confirm.

yes, I said "real world", during 2006-2009. Stats based on 2005-2008 vehicles in the US only, as thats where IIHS works.

Some of my point is that many small cars have performed well in studio crash tests past decade, making us believe small cars are safe. Choosing between being in a Chevy Aveo with airbags, crashing a Vigo without airbags, I am in no doubt I would prefere the Vigo.

+1.

[Atmos]

hi - my error, not here to provoke an argument!

looked at the pdf link - the statement : "today's SUV drivers are among the least likely to die in a crash" was the point I was interested in, making the differentiation between simply big v small and bringing into account 'today' - ascompared to being hit by an old banger in NZ with few safety features.

Now I just need the loot to buy an Audi A6 4-door 4WD l which (if I read it right) from the list appears to be one of seven vehicles with nil recorded deaths against their name.

Though of course few would be owned/driven by the high-risk group of young males.

Me - I'm a cyclist and motorcyclist - and will always lose v a car, of any age.

[transam]

Me - I'm a cyclist and motorcyclist - and will always lose v a car, of any age.

Yep,

[katabeachbum]

hi - my error, not here to provoke an argument!

looked at the pdf link - the statement : "today's SUV drivers are among the least likely to die in a crash" was the point I was interested in, making the differentiation between simply big v small and bringing into account 'today' - ascompared to being hit by an old banger in NZ with few safety features.

Now I just need the loot to buy an Audi A6 4-door 4WD l which (if I read it right) from the list appears to be one of seven vehicles with nil recorded deaths against their name.

Though of course few would be owned/driven by the high-risk group of young males.

Me - I'm a cyclist and motorcyclist - and will always lose v a car, of any age.

yepp

Audi A6, Benz E, Disco3, Range Rover Sport, from the top of my head. Nil recorded deaths against their vehicles during 3 years.

Dont know age of high risk young males, but the above are in US fairly popular successfull +30 y o, and commonly seen at high speeds

My ex wife back home used to come off the road (snow and ice) and have minor accidents now and then, until I got her a 1993 Range Rover with ESP. Nil incidents in 3 years

and she was 27 years young at that time and bloody fast

[transam]

hi - my error, not here to provoke an argument!

looked at the pdf link - the statement : "today's SUV drivers are among the least likely to die in a crash" was the point I was interested in, making the differentiation between simply big v small and bringing into account 'today' - ascompared to being hit by an old banger in NZ with few safety features.

Now I just need the loot to buy an Audi A6 4-door 4WD l which (if I read it right) from the list appears to be one of seven vehicles with nil recorded deaths against their name.

Though of course few would be owned/driven by the high-risk group of young males.

Me - I'm a cyclist and motorcyclist - and will always lose v a car, of any age.

yepp

Audi A6, Benz E, Disco3, Range Rover Sport, from the top of my head. Nil recorded deaths against their vehicles during 3 years.

Dont know age of high risk young males, but the above are in US fairly popular successfull +30 y o, and commonly seen at high speeds

My ex wife back home used to come off the road (snow and ice) and have minor accidents now and then, until I got her a 1993 Range Rover with ESP. Nil incidents in 3 years

and she was 27 years young at that time and bloody fast

Cool.

[MoonRiverOasis]

hi - my error, not here to provoke an argument!

Wasn't going to happen - there's just a couple of us here which are somewhat pragmatic

Anyway, I was looking for this the other day but couldn't find then - it should help with the debate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GySSKPz3oR8

[Semper]

OP. It's called kinetic energy. The larger/heavier vehicle will win.

[transam]

OP. It's called kinetic energy. The larger/heavier vehicle will win.

Tend to agree. One must forget yester year, big yank cars with no safety, today ALL rides have some sort of passenger safety, crumple zones etc, so think 99.9% of the time the big guy wins.

[katabeachbum]

hi - my error, not here to provoke an argument!

Wasn't going to happen - there's just a couple of us here which are somewhat pragmatic

Anyway, I was looking for this the other day but couldn't find then - it should help with the debate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GySSKPz3oR8

Says it all

I would be drawing an even finer line

Looking at 6-800k baht 5 seat cars, I have compared Vios/City 650-700k top models with Focus/Altis/Civic/Cruze low end models. Altis comes without airbags at 800k baht, but I still consider it safer for 5 people than Vios

[seriouseats]

I would take a pumpui squirrel against a vios.

Some idiot woman drove her 'modded sport' vios onto my car's front bumper..

Her dent was 10cm deep and quite large..

My bumper was just detached on the side. i pushed a little and voila. Fixed. not a scratch. she had to get a whole new bumper.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Please remember this is Thailand and not America. The cars, as well as the safety devices in the cars are not the same. Neither are the drivers or road conditions.

I am happy with my small car. My friend with their big double cab has been in 3 accidents in 6 months. It just too large and hard to drive and turn as sharp

[katabeachbum]

Please remember this is Thailand and not America. The cars, as well as the safety devices in the cars are not the same. Neither are the drivers or road conditions.

I am happy with my small car. My friend with their big double cab has been in 3 accidents in 6 months. It just too large and hard to drive and turn as sharp

Indeed remember this is Thailand

50% of all new vehicles is a pickup or larger

70% of the vehicles on the Highways are +2.500kg (5.500 pound) pickups or larger.

Crashing with one of them I want at least the same protection they have.

But I agree, if you are unable to drive a 5 meter pickup, get a smaller car

[Atmos]

^ once I asked my partner about the give way rules in Thailand - she said 'bigger' - and I think she's right!

As we live semi-rural there are many unmarked/un-signposted intersections, always pays to pause and check for anything 'bigger' before entering the intersection area.

[Indegestion]

All this Safety Talk,then most of the Know it All Posters boast about their Motorbikes in the back of ununstable workmans Truck. Seems to me dumping those Scooters they call Motorbikes might save your life.

[katabeachbum]

All this Safety Talk,then most of the Know it All Posters boast about their Motorbikes in the back of ununstable workmans Truck. Seems to me dumping those Scooters they call Motorbikes might save your life.

Dont know how much you know about riding and scoots, but this scooter goes 0-100kmh in 3,x seconds, brakes from 100-0kmh in one third distance of an excellent car, and its 200kg allows it to handle to avoid most dangers on the road. With a bike there is usually an opening to avoid a crash. In addition, riding scooter I am extremely alert and pumped up on adrenaline. My GF rides the same model scooter, and her strong believe in Buddha on occasions makes her faster than me.

However these wokmans/farmer trucks, seating 5 and carrying stuff/bikes/dogs, going long distance covering 700-1000km/day, usually not cruising above 160kmh, there is often no way to avoid a crash due to its size, handling and brakes. Takes 43 meter to stop from 100kmh, and need a 1,8 meter hole to escape accident.

I have found the escape hole on numerous occasions, on snow and ice, on Thai Highways, on German Autobanh, but one day the hole will be to small, and then

Size Does matter

[Indegestion]

Interesting, do you walk round with a Tape Mesure and a Stopwatch..

[Kwasaki]

All this Safety Talk,then most of the Know it All Posters boast about their Motorbikes in the back of ununstable workmans Truck. Seems to me dumping those Scooters they call Motorbikes might save your life.

This is a topic many people like and the information that goes with it.

I would hardly call a Vigo 4x4 auto with VSC a workmans truck and a Kawasaki 650 ain't a scooter.

Go take some Eno's.

[katabeachbum]

Interesting, do you walk round with a Tape Mesure and a Stopwatch..

Always, and I do notice when mirrors ore more is knocked off

[transam]

All this Safety Talk,then most of the Know it All Posters boast about their Motorbikes in the back of ununstable workmans Truck. Seems to me dumping those Scooters they call Motorbikes might save your life.

This is a topic many people like and the information that goes with it.

I would hardly call a Vigo 4x4 auto with VSC a workmans truck and a Kawasaki 650 ain't a scooter.

Go take some Eno's.

Yep, think Eno, as a newbie, should read a lot more here before making daft comments eh.

PS. The know it all here have helped many.

[katabeachbum]

All this Safety Talk,then most of the Know it All Posters boast about their Motorbikes in the back of ununstable workmans Truck. Seems to me dumping those Scooters they call Motorbikes might save your life.

This is a topic many people like and the information that goes with it.

I would hardly call a Vigo 4x4 auto with VSC a workmans truck and a Kawasaki 650 ain't a scooter.

Go take some Eno's.

Yep, think Eno, as a newbie, should read a lot more here before making daft comments eh.

PS. The know it all here have helped many.

Thanks for the support guys :jap:

Name calling just peels off, and says more about poster than me.

Every workman and farmer in Europe will soon have VSC/ESP as its been decided to make it mandatory for every vehicle below 3,5 ton. its been found, in the US and in Europe, to be the single most important safety equipment to save lives, more important than airbags and ABS.

Some workmen will still have to manage without cream leatherseats and cruisecontrol, and some scoots are still not for the masses :lol: