Caught Speeding

[WarpSpeed]

^My wife doesn't drive but she owns our cars, I drive, how's that going to work out??

In Scandinavia a letter is sendt to car owner asked to identify driver. If no ID, Police investigate by checking DL photos on same adress or other links. They even come home or to your workplace in uniform to visit owner until driver has been found

Well were not talking about the efficiency of Scandinavia here which goes way back to the initial infrastructure & system installed which will take the Thai's decades to properly institute. For me it's certain I'll be dead or well out of this country before they can effectively implement and police this sort of policy..

[WarpSpeed]

^My wife doesn't drive but she owns our cars, I drive, how's that going to work out??

You will lose the cars in a divorce.

Now, back on topic please.

First off, she bought em and secondly, not likely, they'll be liquidated by then.. I don't have a vindictive Thai wife like so many others here but rather an appreciative, loving, loyal and demure Chinese one ..

[transam]

^My wife doesn't drive but she owns our cars, I drive, how's that going to work out??

You will lose the cars in a divorce.

Now, back on topic please.

First off, she bought em and secondly, not likely, they'll be liquidated by then.. I don't have a vindictive Thai wife like so many others here but rather an appreciative, loving, loyal and demure Chinese one ..

Glad you could be ''bothered'' to answer this one Warpy.

[WarpSpeed]

As we can see, more and more traffic fines in TH are automated, and there should be no problem to adress them to driver rather than owner of vehicle

How?

Once you have to positively identify the driver rather than the owner the system is no longer automated, plus you have the additional problem that rather less cars in Scandanavia have tinted windows than do in Thailand. In cases where a car's registration number has been cloned, for example, the Thai police have already been shown to be unable to even identify whether or not there was a passenger in the car - the Yaris-driving starlet whose car was caught jumping the red lights when it was parked on a movie set, who successfully contested her fine, was a prime example in the Thai papers some time ago.

Given that it will be next to impossible to identify any drivers here from the photos, the end result if it ever does get introduced will inevitably be a lot of cars driven by those with little or no declared income.

I am in no way planning to design this system for Thai Government, simply informing TV readers they are working on it, and it should be simple to copy what other countries have successfully done for decades.

Yes, one would think so but yet they had numerous well established, successful and well organized models of road system & highway system they could emulate in the first place and well...............TiT............

Edited June 25, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[LeCharivari]

The new plate law states fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year. ..

I already know you do not believe this law exists, but it does

I am increasingly confused about the "new plate law" as here you say that "fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year" while in the Biker Forum you said that "non registered/plated vehicle on public road ... is six months to five years imprisonment " and "non plated/non reg bikes up to 5 year imprisonment". There is a world of difference between having no plates and having fake plates and registration, and there always has been; fake registration has always been a serious offence in Thailand long before you came here.

I am not questioning the law concerning fake vehicle registrations, but the "new plate law" concerning imprisonment for driving an unplated car or bike; it doesn't appear to be documented and no-one has been able to provide a link to it. Like others here, I was waiting for some details from your "GF's uncle" the judge who was waiting to pass sentence on several people for "lack of plate".

[LeCharivari]

As we can see, more and more traffic fines in TH are automated, and there should be no problem to adress them to driver rather than owner of vehicle

How?

.......

Given that it will be next to impossible to identify any drivers here from the photos, the end result if it ever does get introduced will inevitably be a lot of cars driven by those with little or no declared income.

Today only the speedchecks are automated. Every photo, plate number has to be looked up in DLT computer manually.

making windscreen prohibited to tint, would make Thai law on window tint closer to the rest of the world. Making the fine 10.000 baht with 1/3 to officer would make this a windscreen no tint country in a few months

Making speed fines 5.000 baht for car owner when driver no ID, and lowering it to max 4.000 baht of high income ID, and as low as 250 baht for non income ID could work. Speed photo compared with DL photo isnt difficult.

.......

I am in no way planning to design this system for Thai Government, simply informing TV readers they are working on it, and it should be simple to copy what other countries have successfully done for decades.

"looking into it", "working on it" or someone has proposed it whose brother-in-law-'s wife's uncle just happens to have a contact who can supply a bunch of speed cameras at a good price? These sort of proposals happen every day, but 99% of the time they are never more than proposals.

Banning windscreen tint would have no relevance to this law, as it would still be difficult to make a positive identification of the driver and the shade in the car from the side and rear tints would make it more difficult.

I am amazed that the Scandanavians haven't realised that a "high income ID" vehicle owner who nominated one of his "non income ID" staff or their relatives to be the "driver" and pay the fine would pay less - it would take the Thais about 10 seconds to see this (as it did me, above, and other countries that have rejected this system).

[Shocktreatment]

The new plate law states fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year. ..

I already know you do not believe this law exists, but it does

I am increasingly confused about the "new plate law" as here you say that "fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year" while in the Biker Forum you said that "non registered/plated vehicle on public road ... is six months to five years imprisonment " and "non plated/non reg bikes up to 5 year imprisonment". There is a world of difference between having no plates and having fake plates and registration, and there always has been; fake registration has always been a serious offence in Thailand long before you came here.

I am not questioning the law concerning fake vehicle registrations, but the "new plate law" concerning imprisonment for driving an unplated car or bike; it doesn't appear to be documented and no-one has been able to provide a link to it. Like others here, I was waiting for some details from your "GF's uncle" the judge who was waiting to pass sentence on several people for "lack of plate".

Thats because its not true

To think that they are letting every one, even farangs slid on this law is bullshit, There is no new plate law concerning bikes with excise tax and there is no cracked down with 1000s of bike being taken and people put in jail for riding them.

[katabeachbum]

The new plate law states fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year. ..

I already know you do not believe this law exists, but it does

I am increasingly confused about the "new plate law" as here you say that "fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year" while in the Biker Forum you said that "non registered/plated vehicle on public road ... is six months to five years imprisonment " and "non plated/non reg bikes up to 5 year imprisonment". There is a world of difference between having no plates and having fake plates and registration, and there always has been; fake registration has always been a serious offence in Thailand long before you came here.

I am not questioning the law concerning fake vehicle registrations, but the "new plate law" concerning imprisonment for driving an unplated car or bike; it doesn't appear to be documented and no-one has been able to provide a link to it. Like others here, I was waiting for some details from your "GF's uncle" the judge who was waiting to pass sentence on several people for "lack of plate".

the print I read of the plate law a year or so ago, says 6 months to 5 years imprisonment for

no plated/no registered 30 days/3.000km after delivery/1st Insurance

covered plate/stickers on plate

Modified plate

Fake plate, as in real numbers but no lower right corner seal, or also fake number

BTW when I came her in 1970, there where not many plated cars around

I may have used incorrect legal terms on why people are up for court, fact remains, they are, due to enforcement of plate law. Picking quotes from different posts, I assume you do this to confuse other readers.

[katabeachbum]

As we can see, more and more traffic fines in TH are automated, and there should be no problem to adress them to driver rather than owner of vehicle

How?

.......

Given that it will be next to impossible to identify any drivers here from the photos, the end result if it ever does get introduced will inevitably be a lot of cars driven by those with little or no declared income.

Today only the speedchecks are automated. Every photo, plate number has to be looked up in DLT computer manually.

making windscreen prohibited to tint, would make Thai law on window tint closer to the rest of the world. Making the fine 10.000 baht with 1/3 to officer would make this a windscreen no tint country in a few months

Making speed fines 5.000 baht for car owner when driver no ID, and lowering it to max 4.000 baht of high income ID, and as low as 250 baht for non income ID could work. Speed photo compared with DL photo isnt difficult.

.......

I am in no way planning to design this system for Thai Government, simply informing TV readers they are working on it, and it should be simple to copy what other countries have successfully done for decades.

"looking into it", "working on it" or someone has proposed it whose brother-in-law-'s wife's uncle just happens to have a contact who can supply a bunch of speed cameras at a good price? These sort of proposals happen every day, but 99% of the time they are never more than proposals.

Banning windscreen tint would have no relevance to this law, as it would still be difficult to make a positive identification of the driver and the shade in the car from the side and rear tints would make it more difficult.

I am amazed that the Scandanavians haven't realised that a "high income ID" vehicle owner who nominated one of his "non income ID" staff or their relatives to be the "driver" and pay the fine would pay less - it would take the Thais about 10 seconds to see this (as it did me, above, and other countries that have rejected this system).

I do hope you are right, as I really dislike automated speedchecks, and prefere fines to remain at 200 baht

[Shocktreatment]

Will getting one of those Highway Police stickers help?

Looking up your cars plate, find your ID number, looking you up in Highwaypolice register and then not finding you listed, I assume they would double the fine for pretending to be a Police :lol:

What I mean is that I have a connection in the Highway Police that might be able to get me one. At any rate, I reckon the chances of just getting waved on at road blocks will increase.

I am a Big Bike Highwaypolice Volunteer, and my vehicles are marked front and rear with HWP stickers. Out on the Highways, Police are so used to seeing "fake" stickers they pull me over anyway. They do not believe I am a HWP until they have checked my badge and ID card.

About me being HWP, relax. I do not take part in fine collecting Police activities. Do not want to.

Volunteer HWP

I to was offered free badge ID and stickers but thought what a joke, dont like Thai police as it is, why would someone volunteer to be part of Thailands biggest crime gang

[Shocktreatment]

The new plate law states fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year. ..

I already know you do not believe this law exists, but it does

I am increasingly confused about the "new plate law" as here you say that "fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year" while in the Biker Forum you said that "non registered/plated vehicle on public road ... is six months to five years imprisonment " and "non plated/non reg bikes up to 5 year imprisonment". There is a world of difference between having no plates and having fake plates and registration, and there always has been; fake registration has always been a serious offence in Thailand long before you came here.

I am not questioning the law concerning fake vehicle registrations, but the "new plate law" concerning imprisonment for driving an unplated car or bike; it doesn't appear to be documented and no-one has been able to provide a link to it. Like others here, I was waiting for some details from your "GF's uncle" the judge who was waiting to pass sentence on several people for "lack of plate".

the print I read of the plate law a year or so ago, says 6 months to 5 years imprisonment for

no plated/no registered 30 days/3.000km after delivery/1st Insurance

covered plate/stickers on plate

Modified plate

Fake plate, as in real numbers but no lower right corner seal, or also fake number

BTW when I came her in 1970, there where not many plated cars around

I may have used incorrect legal terms on why people are up for court, fact remains, they are, due to enforcement of plate law. Picking quotes from different posts, I assume you do this to confuse other readers.

No more confusing than you posting about a Thai law that no one at Khon kaen police station, Khon kaen excise guys, Khon kaen and changmai bike importers, Udon excise guys and the transport department have ever heard of.

Then there is not one single thing on the net or a experince from a single non plated bike rider on the net. But carry on :jap:

[katabeachbum]

Volunteer HWP

I to was offered free badge ID and stickers but thought what a joke, dont like Thai police as it is, why would someone volunteer to be part of Thailands biggest crime gang

keep on bashing

Class 5 Big Bike Highway Police Volunteer in Phuket April 2010, was like 160 graduates, less than 10 female, perhaps 1/3 foreigners. All bikers of course, from all segments of society. Its a bit more than badge and stickers which can be purchased at every bike week, I doubt you where offered a Police ID with your picture, passportnumber, photo and HWxxxx number listed by National HWP, but as you r not interested we leave it there. Being a graduate from class 5, my HWP ID is 5xxxx.

I have always been the kind of guy who likes to assist on accident scenes, either simply pulling vehicles out of the ditch, assisting with medical, or leading accident scene. Being a Highwaypolice Volunteer enables me to do so in TH. I also enjoy marshalling rides to improve safety for riders and others on the roads. I do not take part in fine collecting activities

By your posting I figured out long time ago you do not like laws or police, no problem with me

[Shocktreatment]

Was offered by a female HWP offical in Pattaya and yes she wanted details as above and passport photos, One thing you guys are good for is stopping the traffic

[LeCharivari]

The new plate law states fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year. ..

I already know you do not believe this law exists, but it does

I am increasingly confused about the "new plate law" as here you say that "fake plate is punished with imprisonment 6 months to 5 year" while in the Biker Forum you said that "non registered/plated vehicle on public road ... is six months to five years imprisonment" and "non plated/non reg bikes up to 5 year imprisonment". There is a world of difference between having no plates and having fake plates and registration, and there always has been; fake registration has always been a serious offence in Thailand long before you came here.

I am not questioning the law concerning fake vehicle registrations, but the "new plate law" concerning imprisonment for driving an unplated car or bike; it doesn't appear to be documented and no-one has been able to provide a link to it. Like others here, I was waiting for some details from your "GF's uncle" the judge who was waiting to pass sentence on several people for "lack of plate".

the print I read of the plate law a year or so ago, says 6 months to 5 years imprisonment for

no plated/no registered 30 days/3.000km after delivery/1st Insurance

covered plate/stickers on plate

Modified plate

Fake plate, as in real numbers but no lower right corner seal, or also fake number

BTW when I came her in 1970, there where not many plated cars around

I may have used incorrect legal terms on why people are up for court, fact remains, they are, due to enforcement of plate law. Picking quotes from different posts, I assume you do this to confuse other readers.

No, I am "picking quotes from different posts" because I am confused. Fake plates/registration is NOT the same as no plates/registration.

This has nothing to do with "legal terms" - they are totally different circumstances and totally different offences.

If you are talking about fake plates and registration (as you are in this thread) that was a serious, imprisonable offence long before 1970 so little would appear to have changed. That offence comes under the Organised Crime Unit and is taken particularly seriously with vehicle cloning (as in the Joy Pongchoke case I mentioned above, with the OCU investigating two such cases a month) and the terrorist threat with false plates being used on cars used as car bombs in Songkhla.

If you are talking about no plates and registration being an equally serious imprisonable offence (as you were in a number of other threads) even after taxes have been paid, an official red plate issued, etc, that is a totally different matter, although if that is the case it is the penalty that has changed, not the regulation as even prior to 2010 red plates were only officially allowed to be used for 30 days/3,000 kms (although this was seldom if ever enforced).

I have no interest in "bashing" but I am simply asking for clarification of which offence you are talking about: fake plates/registration or no plates/registration. It seems a simple enough question and one which, if you can't answer it, your "GF's uncle" the judge should be able to.

[Johnniey]

During +8 years fulltime living in Thailand and +450k km on the roads all over the country, I can not see foreigners beeing fined differently than Thai nationals.

However the government is looking into European fining calculations, called day-salary-fine. One day fine is one days salary according to tax payments or other records. For no/ low income it will most likely start at 250 baht/day, For a foreigner with WP we are looking at 2.000 baht/day upwards, and retirementvisa holders 2.500 baht/day. And of course Thai high earners are looking at much higher fines

and please dont ask me for a link, cause as so often it comes from reading printed stuff, and source forgotten, only content memorized

I also memorize max fine for speeding and a bunch of other traffic offenses was supposed to be raised from 1.000 baht, but cant confirm if this has happend yet

Interesting. In over 20 years of driving in Thailand, I agree that foreigners are not treated different to Thais. However, stupid people might be taken advantage of, like the expat that can't speak the language and don't know what to say when pulled over, or the Thai that can't be bothered arguing.

I am a Big Bike Highwaypolice Volunteer, and my vehicles are marked front and rear with HWP stickers. Out on the Highways, Police are so used to seeing "fake" stickers they pull me over anyway. They do not believe I am a HWP until they have checked my badge and ID card.

About me being HWP, relax. I do not take part in fine collecting Police activities. Do not want to.

You'll find that you'll never be asked. The police don't want volunteers but have to take a certain number in each province due to the head guy's orders in Bangkok. Generally, in the provinces I know, only the volunteers fluent in Thai welcome.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Johnniey

[katabeachbum]

You'll find that you'll never be asked. The police don't want volunteers but have to take a certain number in each province due to the head guy's orders in Bangkok.

Od comment, as I, and several of my friends who do not speak Thai at all, have just recieved request to volunteer more often. Are you really talking about Highwaypolice, and do you have any knowledge about division Krabi, Pangnah and Phuket?

[LeCharivari]

They do not believe I am a HWP until they have checked my badge and ID card.

About me being HWP, relax. I do not take part in fine collecting Police activities. Do not want to.

You'll find that you'll never be asked. The police don't want volunteers but have to take a certain number in each province due to the head guy's orders in Bangkok. Generally, in the provinces I know, only the volunteers fluent in Thai welcome.

That is my experience too.

Certainly in Pattaya/Chonburi the BBHWP Volunteers are "recruited" only during and pretty well for Pattaya Bike Week; I know a number and they have never been asked to perform any duties other than at the Bike Week and their "training" is very much ad-hoc with occasional voluntary training sessions run in conjunction with the regular and Tourist Police Volunteers and no "graduation" as in Phuket. In Chonburi, at least, putting Police or HWP stickers on vehicles by volunteers (Thai or farang) is frowned on as it is technically illegal except when the volunteers are on duty (when they would be driving their "Big Bikes", not their pick-ups or cars).

I have never known farangs to be either involved or present when "fining" is in progress, although Thai volunteers are present all too often. Around Pattaya there has been an increasing number of road-blocks manned by volunteers with one token regular policeman present (the volunteers have no powers and are not allowed to be uniformed apart from when on duty and with regular police). Some are, at best, "unofficial" and the regular police have taken action against these.

I have no problem with the Police volunteers when doing their job, alongside the regular police. Those in and around Pattaya, Thai and farang, gained a very bad reputation very quickly after they were established but the worst elements have now gone, fortunately. I was asked to help with one specialist branch of the Pattaya police when it was first set up (I had to decline for a number of reasons), so I know some of those involved; some were experienced retired police or law-enforcement specialists and I think it would be unfair to condemn all those who volunteer their time as just doing so for their ego and the badges.

[katabeachbum]

They do not believe I am a HWP until they have checked my badge and ID card.

About me being HWP, relax. I do not take part in fine collecting Police activities. Do not want to.

You'll find that you'll never be asked. The police don't want volunteers but have to take a certain number in each province due to the head guy's orders in Bangkok. Generally, in the provinces I know, only the volunteers fluent in Thai welcome.

That is my experience too.

Certainly in Pattaya/Chonburi the BBHWP Volunteers are "recruited" only during and pretty well for Pattaya Bike Week; I know a number and they have never been asked to perform any duties other than at the Bike Week and their "training" is very much ad-hoc with occasional voluntary training sessions run in conjunction with the regular and Tourist Police Volunteers and no "graduation" as in Phuket. In Chonburi, at least, putting Police or HWP stickers on vehicles by volunteers (Thai or farang) is frowned on as it is technically illegal except when the volunteers are on duty (when they would be driving their "Big Bikes", not their pick-ups or cars).

I have never known farangs to be either involved or present when "fining" is in progress, although Thai volunteers are present all too often. Around Pattaya there has been an increasing number of road-blocks manned by volunteers with one token regular policeman present (the volunteers have no powers and are not allowed to be uniformed apart from when on duty and with regular police). Some are, at best, "unofficial" and the regular police have taken action against these.

I have no problem with the Police volunteers when doing their job, alongside the regular police. Those in and around Pattaya, Thai and farang, gained a very bad reputation very quickly after they were established but the worst elements have now gone, fortunately. I was asked to help with one specialist branch of the Pattaya police when it was first set up (I had to decline for a number of reasons), so I know some of those involved; some were experienced retired police or law-enforcement specialists and I think it would be unfair to condemn all those who volunteer their time as just doing so for their ego and the badges.

Seems like with everything else in TH, each division recruits and handles its Volunteers differently. Phuket Governor and a bunch of leaders where present during the last part of class 5.

I travel all over Thailand, but have not been to Chonbury for over 40 years, and no plan to go there.

As for stickers on vehicles, only on the ones used for HWP, which includes 2 of my bikes, car, SUV and pickup. Basicly we are always "on duty" as we are supposed to assist or take control on every bike accident scene.

I mention my lack of assisting in fine collecting Police work as I have been accused of doing so and someone even stated they had a video of me doing so, which is untrue. Some farang Volunteers do assist fining.

[LeCharivari]

Seems like with everything else in TH, each division recruits and handles its Volunteers differently.

This has nothing necessarily to do with Thailand or its policing system as it is standard practice in most countries. Different areas or districts face different policing problems (trans-border, urban, rural, terrorist, etc) and so they have to deal with them in different ways.

Basicly we are always "on duty" as we are supposed to assist or take control on every bike accident scene.

I think you are confusing two different things here and possibly taking a comment that was meant as motivation too literally. The term "on duty" means that time when volunteer police can act with some of the same authority as police - unless accompanied by regular Thai police they have no such authority at any time (even in Phuket). End of story. Assisting at RTAs is an entirely different matter.

I, and several of my friends who do not speak Thai at all, have just recieved request to volunteer more often.

While many of the volunteer police I know are far from "fluent" in Thai the only ones I know who were accepted who "speak no Thai at all" are in the Tourist or Immigration Police where, when on duty, they will be with English-speaking Thai police. Unless the Phuket Highway Police are far better linguists than those others I have met I can't imagine what possible use these people can be to them. More to the point, how can they be "supposed to assist or take control on every bike accident scene" when they can't converse with any or most of the people there? Are these people also "always "on duty""?? I can only imagine the scene in the UK if a foreigner turned up who tried to "control" anything by waving a police badge around but who couldn't speak any English!

Maybe you could shed some light on what duties these people have just been asked to do?

[NanLaew]

Well this thread has been royally hijacked hasn't it?

Who cares if some foreigners volunteer with law enforcement and who cares if some foreigners don't like it?

I reckon the OP's question has been answered anyway.

[katabeachbum]

Well this thread has been royally hijacked hasn't it?

Who cares if some foreigners volunteer with law enforcement and who cares if some foreigners don't like it?

I reckon the OP's question has been answered anyway.

agreed. totally off topic, and I will not reply to Le Charivari assumptions on Highwaypolice Volunteers

[LeCharivari]

Well this thread has been royally hijacked hasn't it?

Who cares if some foreigners volunteer with law enforcement and who cares if some foreigners don't like it?

I reckon the OP's question has been answered anyway.

"Who cares" what you "reckon"?

Please do not imply that I said something I did not or hold views I do not.

For the record, since you have misrepresented what I said, I made my views on foreign police volunteers very clear: "I have no problem with the Police volunteers when doing their job, alongside the regular police".

I also never made any "assumptions" about the Highway Police Volunteers; I asked one simple question ("what duties these people have just been asked to do?") of the person who first mentioned and raised the subject of "Volunteers" in this thread.

[NanLaew]

OK, alright already!

Now, do you have ANYTHING to say about the OP and speeding fines?

No?

[Captain Haddock]

There are 120kph zones? And the speed limit is enforced? Really?! Will wonders never cease? TIT!

[LeCharivari]

... Now, do you have ANYTHING to say about the OP and speeding fines?

No?

No.

( I would hate you to think I was avoiding a question!)