Tires

[transam]

Moisture can be easily removed from compressed air.

The primary reason that aircraft tyres are inflated with nitrogen (mandated by Airworthiness Directive FAA AD 87-08-09) is that, because large commercial aircraft have tyre pressures in the order of 200psi, the oxygen content in air inflated tyres can cause explosions when other factors such as grease or sudden pressure change or overheated brakes occur.

Although moisture content and pressure stability etc are also factors.

J.

Not only factors, but moisture is NOT removed from pump air making it not practical in application nor relevant for the purposes of this discussion.

Why ?

[WarpSpeed]

Why what??? There are other threads that detail this dead horse topic at great length, I'll not be drawn into it again..

Edited June 26, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[thunder30101]

Best way for a novice to make claims without any scientific data or proof to prove thier point is to say Im not saying anymore lol Im surprised you didnt claim to be a tire engineer with 50 years exp. using nitrogen. Sorry but your wrong and all you have to do is google tires and nitrogen to prove you dont know what you are talking about. " My Mrs little car I was pumping air every week, I took to ' Cockpit ' they took the wheels off cleaned the rims and tyres refitted and gassed them up charged me 300bath" They cleaned your rims and beads the source of your loss of air !!! nothing to do with the makeup of the gas in your tires !!!

[transam]

Why what??? There are other threads that detail this dead horse topic at great length, I'll not be drawn into it again..

Hmmmmmm, easy way out Warps.

Your use of 'your' words is quite confusing for me, and perhaps for the non tech minded might be even more confusing.

[WarpSpeed]

Best way for a novice to make claims without any scientific data or proof to prove thier point is to say Im not saying anymore lol Im surprised you didnt claim to be a tire engineer with 50 years exp. using nitrogen. Sorry but your wrong and all you have to do is google tires and nitrogen to prove you dont know what you are talking about. " My Mrs little car I was pumping air every week, I took to ' Cockpit ' they took the wheels off cleaned the rims and tyres refitted and gassed them up charged me 300bath" They cleaned your rims and beads the source of your loss of air !!! nothing to do with the makeup of the gas in your tires !!!

Yep and that's why I won't discuss it ... Silly plonkers like yourself....Unlike you I don't need to Google anything I leave that to guys of your ilk.

I have more then 25 years practical experience and just because you tried in vain to preempt a similar statement on my part by mentioning your silly tire engineer analogy, the fact remains that in spite of your multiple exclamation points like my mother always uses, the experience is valid, legitimate and directly relates.

Edited June 26, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[thunder30101]

What is your 25 years exp in ? Im sure I can come up with a better one than you lol I mean this is the internet. But you still dont know what you are talking about my friend.

[WarpSpeed]

Why what??? There are other threads that detail this dead horse topic at great length, I'll not be drawn into it again..

Hmmmmmm, easy way out Warps.

Your use of 'your' words is quite confusing for me, and perhaps for the non tech minded might be even more confusing.

Sorry I don't use "my" words, I hadn't thought that English would be so confusing for an Englishman I can't speak any other languages except maybe a little bit of Espanol maybe that would better suit you?? Still you wasted another post and didn't clarify what it is that has so confused you..

I also am not in practice to take the hard way out of anything when the easy way out is always the best way.. Work smarter, not harder..

Edited June 26, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

What is your 25 years exp in ? Im sure I can come up with a better one than you lol I mean this is the internet. But you still dont know what you are talking about my friend.

What are you 15 years old with the "lol"?? Check around the board you're not a newbie, there's plenty enough threads which state my experience...I'm not one dimensional like so many others so I have a wealth of experience on a wide range of topics..

JFYI it takes a special person to refer to me as "my friend" and based on your displayed intellect, you don't qualify..

Edited June 26, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[John 1]

Come on WS don't go out in the wind to-day all your ticket's will blow off.

[thunder30101]

The greatest thing about the internet is the wealth of information available to call BS when you see it and being able to backup that call with facts. Claiming BS with BS credentials dont cut it these days. Getting angry with me for saying lol because of your failure to backup your claim on nitrogen in CAR TIRES is quite lame friendo (like that better ? I didnt really ever consider you a friend in any capacity)

[transam]

What is your 25 years exp in ? Im sure I can come up with a better one than you lol I mean this is the internet. But you still dont know what you are talking about my friend.

What are you 15 years old with the "lol"?? Check around the board you're not a newbie, there's plenty enough threads which state my experience...I'm not one dimensional like so many others so I have a wealth of experience on a wide range of topics..

JFYI it takes a special person to refer to me as "my friend" and based on your displayed intellect, you don't qualify..

Your wealth of other ''experience'' certainly didn't apply to how a toilet pan works on the stinky drains thread.

As an ex ''racer'' you should have been first on board to point out the ups and downs of different tyre gas, you spent loads of time being proved wrong by many on how a toilet works.

[John 1]

Come on TA you have now put WS in the shit.

[transam]

Come on TA you have now put WS in the shit.

Oooooooooooops.

[Kwasaki]

Best way for a novice to make claims without any scientific data or proof to prove thier point is to say Im not saying anymore lol Im surprised you didnt claim to be a tire engineer with 50 years exp. using nitrogen. Sorry but your wrong and all you have to do is google tires and nitrogen to prove you dont know what you are talking about. " My Mrs little car I was pumping air every week, I took to ' Cockpit ' they took the wheels off cleaned the rims and tyres refitted and gassed them up charged me 300bath" They cleaned your rims and beads the source of your loss of air !!! nothing to do with the makeup of the gas in your tires !!!

If your directing that at me, " without scientific data, your typing like a troll " :lol: what a ridiculous thing to quote, your be telling us Wilki is a 100% info next.

I have changed motorcycle tyres for over fifty years using air but I would use nitrogen on larger bikes now especially in this climate.

Like I have already said the proof of the pudding is in the eating, if you are losing air it will make a difference if you get the tyres taken off and cleaned up etc and refitted, and pump air back in if you want, fine.

Quote " nothing to do with the makeup of gas in your tyres " unquote. Nitrogen is something which you have obviously never tried is it ? If they are filled with nitrogen they lose psi much slower than pumped air, nothing scientific about that, it's a fact.

[thunder30101]

Oh yes now Im a troll for calling BS, I never quoted anything wiki as wiki is not scientific data and is about as reliable as your 50 years of exp. Instead of beating your chest and spouting 50 years of this or that please show me any reliable data that states your claims ermm excuse me facts !!!

[Naam]

Come on TA you have now put WS in the shit.

Oooooooooooops.

ah sez... V12 rules!

by the way, what do the learned experts say to my plan to fill the tires of my car with hydrogen which will result in an uplift and therefore an increase of acceleration and top speed?

Edited June 27, 2011 by Naam

[richard_smith237]

Come on TA you have now put WS in the shit.

Oooooooooooops.

ah sez... V12 rules!

by the way, what do the learned experts say to my plan to fill the tires of my car with hydrogen which will result in an uplift and therefore an increase of acceleration and top speed?

Go for helium, it's safer and if you get bored you can suck on the valve as a party trick....

No one has commented on how much safer air is in tires.... If one is forced off the road into a lake or river by gun wielding villains you can suck on the air in the tires to breath thus fooling the hardy villains of your demise. I have 25 years experience of watching James Bond movies BTW.....

[katabeachbum]

Come on TA you have now put WS in the shit.

Oooooooooooops.

ah sez... V12 rules!

by the way, what do the learned experts say to my plan to fill the tires of my car with hydrogen which will result in an uplift and therefore an increase of acceleration and top speed?

helium should provide some uplift, but usually downforce is desired to increase traction

[John 1]

Sorry Richard only 25 years of experience just wait someone will be on here soon with 26 years of experience.

[richard_smith237]

Sorry Richard only 25 years of experience just wait someone will be on here soon with 26 years of experience.

Someone will probably be on here claiming to be Ian Fleming himself.... I think we all know who that might be.....

[wandrinstar]

Thanks for all the replies. So, what's the verdict? Air or nitrogen? I think I will stick with air since you have to pay for the nitrogen and it seems not to be much if any better and it not easily available.

FWIW I think that sort of reasoning could have been done without a thread honestly, another reason I was steering clear...

Well you didn't steer to clear as you made 3 posts to the question. Thanks for your input.

Yo Ho. the Old Spaniel sure sniffed that one out.

[Milo]

Sorry, bit rushed to read all the posts but can add my two-penn'orth?<br><br>Wouldn't use Nitrogen on the truck as I'm forever altering pressures due to load.<br><br>It's great on the bikes though! ER6n's/f's & Versys'. I used to have to add 4-5PSI/week when using air, now only a couple of PSI/month with the Nitrogen. Prices vary wildly, the local guy charged me 50b for initial fill, now 20b per top-up. Per bike, not per tyre. There's a bloke a couple of K's down the road gives it to me free every time? Believe he's trying to gain my trust, then try to screw me on some new pickup tyres <img class="bbc_emoticon" alt="" src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif"><br><br>Fazer was really low up in Mae Sai as we'd been away for a good 8 weeks. Asked around & found a dodgy-looking character (sometimes you just <i>know</i> you should have asked the price first?!?!), monkey charged me 100b/tyre! Nearly told him to bladdy well take it out again <img class="bbc_emoticon" alt="" src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif"><br>Kawasaki Cm INSIST on adding air to the tyres each time they service, unless I literally stand over them? Plaster flaming lube-spray all over the chain they do too, even though there's an oiler on it <img class="bbc_emoticon" alt="" src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif"> Idiots.<br><br>That's the only trouble with the Nitrogen; when you're bannering around the country as we are, finding somewhere quickly for a top-up? My personal belief is that air here has masses of water in the form of humidity, which expands far more than we're used to back in UK etc? This causes over-inflation on a much larger scale and literally blows the wind out of any weak seals? <br>A simple de-humidifier on the compressor intake would probably solve this problem?<br><br>The one great point about the Nitrogen in bike tyres is it doesn't half make them stick like sh*t to a blanket once warmed up! <img class="bbc_emoticon" alt="" src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif"> Once warm they keep their footprint, which decreases if you're using air as the pressure rises. All of a sudden you become a riding GOD, boots & footpegs don't last long!! I can only highly recommend it for any sports/touring enthusiasts out there, has to be tried to be believed.<br><br>Apologies if I'm repeating other posts.<br>

Edited June 27, 2011 by Milo

[Kwasaki]

Oh yes now Im a troll for calling BS, I never quoted anything wiki as wiki is not scientific data and is about as reliable as your 50 years of exp. Instead of beating your chest and spouting 50 years of this or that please show me any reliable data that states your claims ermm excuse me facts !!!

Seems your the one getting to beat your chest your sounding really funny now. :lol: here's a little something I had on file.

Nitrogen is all around us and in " Cockpit " outlets. When used to replace oxygen and other gases in tyre inflation, it enhances handling, improves fuel efficiency, extends tyre life, protects the mother Earth and, most importantly, keeps you safer on the road. If you are one of the 85% of people who don't regularly check tire pressure, you need nitrogen. The large size, nitrogen molecules are the least permeable and stay in your tyre longer. By reducing the percentage of oxygen, water vapor and other gases in your tyres from 22% to 7% or lower, your tyres will maintain proper pressure longer than if you use "plain old air." For example, with 95% nitrogen in your tyres, they retain optimal pressure three to four times longer. Proper tyre pressure is a big deal. Maintain it with nitrogen, and you'll see these three primary benefits:

Increased Fuel Efficiency Correct tyre pressure keeps the manufacturer's recommended "contact patch" on the road. This lessens the rolling resistance

and maximizes fuel efficiency.

Longer Tire Life When it comes in contact with other materials, oxygen causes oxidation. Oxidation can make rubber brittle and cause it to lose tensile strength.

In addition, at high temperatures and pressures, oxygen reacts and damages

inner tyre liners and belt packages; nitrogen does not.

Increased Safety -- Increased Safety Under-inflated tyres cause 90% of blowouts. Nitrogen provides more reliable pressure for reduced blowout potential.

Improved TPMS Performance A good point to make if you have a new car, you likely are plagued by a flashing light telling you your tyre pressure is low. e.g. one woman's light was going off every four to five weeks. After inflating with nitrogen, her light didn't reappear for 53 weeks!

More Predictable Pressure Fluctuation NASCAR teams use nitrogen so they can more accurately predict tyre pressure fluctuation. Regular compressed air can fluctuate considerably when water vapor is present.

Want to read on :-

Longer Rim Life Rim rust caused by condensation from water vapor and other gases can get caught in valves and create slow leaks in tires. Nitrogen is completely dry, so it eliminates the potential for condensation. For those who say you don't get 100% nitrogen put in your tyres. Why not eliminate all oxygen and water vapor? What's right for me 95% or 98%?

Numerous studies have proven that nitrogen in tyres reduces the volume of gases that escape more quickly and cause damaging oxidation. However, research also has shown that nitrogen purity beyond a certain point does not provide additional benefits. In fact, with a nitrogen purity above 93.4%? in passenger tyres, oxygen actually begins to migrate back into the tire. You can get all the benefits of nitrogen with a purity level between 93-98%.

Bridgestone / Firestone tyre researchers say that 93-95% nitrogen is all you need.

According to Ford Motor Co., there is no difference between 96% and 99% nitrogen purity.

You bored yet with the scientific facts. :lol:

Who Else Is Using Nitrogen?

NASCAR teams use nitrogen because it allows them to more accurately predict tire pressure fluctuation. Nitrogen fluctuates with temperature change, but it does so less than when water vapor is present. In addition, higher nitrogen levels eliminate the explosive properties of oxygen (oxygen loses its explosive properties at around 9% or less) . NASCAR uses bottled nitrogen for portability. The bottles are delivered to the track by Praxair.

Oh dear there's more !!

Commercial Airlines The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) requires nitrogen in all commercial aircraft tires to eliminate the potential for water vapor (inherent in normal compressed air) from freezing at high altitudes. In addition, aircraft manufacturers such as Boeing use nitrogen membranes in their On-Board Inert Gas Generation Systems i.e. (OBIGGS) to "top" fuel tanks with nitrogen - an inert gas that does not support combustion.

U.S. Government NASA and the U.S. military use nitrogen for many of the same reasons it used in commercial aircraft.

Thailand's Food Processors and Packagers Oxygen hastens both the chemical breakdown and microbial spoilage of many foods. Think meat, potato chips, cookies, etc. To help preserve foods longer, processors and packagers often use modified atmosphere packaging (MAP) and controlled atmosphere packaging (CAP) that replaces some or all of the oxygen in the air inside the

package with nitrogen.

How is nitrogen separated from other gases in air?

Membranes are the heart of any nitrogen system. Just like a tyre, the membranes are permeable. When thousands of these permeable tubes are filled with air at high pressures, smaller molecules leak out while the larger nitrogen molecules travel through the tubes into a holding tank to fill your tyres or for other uses.

Glad I kept that, ' wandering star ' will like this, good read ain't it.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Naam]

Longer Tire Life – When it comes in contact with other materials, oxygen causes oxidation. Oxidation can make rubber brittle and cause it to lose tensile strength.

now you are overdoing it Kwasaki-San no matter how much Nitrogen you fill inside the tires their outsides are still exposed to the average 28% oxygen normal air contains. what really hurts tires and makes the compound brittle is the ultraviolet spectrum of our sun.

correct tire pressure does indeed enhance fuel efficiency and reduces wear and tear. but that does not mean that i have to follow the manufacturers recommendations and suffer discomfort when using Thai roads. in my wife's shitty Benz it feels like sitting in a jeep at correct pressure (30-32psi). that's why the car is driven with 26psi (all four tires) except when going once i a blue moon to Suvarnabhumi or downtown Bangkok.

[wandrinstar]

Bloody Good Read,i don't know how I've got through life without it..More interesting than the Toyota Fan Clubs constant lists.Do Tunas use Nitrous Oxide, because i laugh whenever one cuts me up. You mind you don't get banned introducing a Chuckle into Truckers Daily.!!.

[thunder30101]

Too funny (is that better than lol ?) Not one of your claims is valid or coherent, I wont cut and paste them all but to name a few "According to Ford Motor Co., there is no difference between 96% and 99% nitrogen purity.

Bridgestone / Firestone tyre researchers say that 93-95% nitrogen is all you need." thats good stuff to know ? How about "Increased Fuel Efficiency – Correct tyre pressure keeps the manufacturer's recommended "contact patch" on the road. This lessens the rolling resistance

and maximizes fuel efficiency" Air or nitrogen on that one ? I give up, I really do.

[Kwasaki]

The OP asked about Nitrogen in tyres he got answers from people who have used it, if someone tries putting it down without having experience of it's use what is the good of that. I will not give up using it here in hot climate of Thailand.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Bkkorupcountry]

Longer Tire Life – When it comes in contact with other materials, oxygen causes oxidation. Oxidation can make rubber brittle and cause it to lose tensile strength.

now you are overdoing it Kwasaki-San no matter how much Nitrogen you fill inside the tires their outsides are still exposed to the average 28% oxygen normal air contains. what really hurts tires and makes the compound brittle is the ultraviolet spectrum of our sun.

correct tire pressure does indeed enhance fuel efficiency and reduces wear and tear. but that does not mean that i have to follow the manufacturers recommendations and suffer discomfort when using Thai roads. in my wife's shitty Benz it feels like sitting in a jeep at correct pressure (30-32psi). that's why the car is driven with 26psi (all four tires) except when going once i a blue moon to Suvarnabhumi or downtown Bangkok.

Doesn't that bring down fuel economy significantly?

[richard_smith237]

I suppose the quick answer here is.... Has someone used nitrogen in the past and now chooses not to? If so, why?

I've never used it, but I have had a blowout a few years back due to what I suspect was low pressure.

Now I check my pressures more regularly (every couple of months or so) and am rarely more than 1-2 psi out using normal air. That's good enough for me.

So IMO: far more critical than what we choose to fill our tyres with is how often we check the pressures, air or nitrogen.

[transam]

My drag race ''street'' tyres always deteriorated, visibly after a very short time from the outside, as Naam says.

Take them off the rims to replace and the insides were like new. Thats with air. Drive to the track on 22, deflate to 10 to race, inflate to 22 to go home.