Vote-Buying And Graft Undermine Thailand's Competitiveness

[tmd5855]

I think you miss the point. Thaksin succes is not about this or that policy. That's the old Thaksin, the one that Sondhi helped to kill.

The new Thaksin is about challenging the establishment. He appeals to everybody. From the poor guy in his rice field to the successful businessman who is tired to be restrain by dumb civil servants whose only qualification is to be born in the right family.

The old Thaksin would have probably disappeared by now. The new Thaksin will probably remembered as the political leader who helped the Thai democracy in the 21st century.

Totally agree, 100%

Thaksin would have dug a big hole for himself, shot himself in the foot and tripped over his own ego.

Having a coup and getting rid of him in that way transformed his image. I think if he had been left alone he would be a forgotten man.

His transformation was not of his own making, but the stupidity of others who thought he would fade away.

Thaksin has not changed, how people see him has. The majority of the voters see him as a hero who is fighting ingrained cheating and corruption. He must be laughing up his sleeve at how it has all turned out. 5 years later his sister stands to gain power and he will be the power maker behind all the smoke and mirrors.

As ye sow, ye shall reap. Quite apt for those that thought they were smart and he would slowly dissapear.

My fear is if he ever gets back into Thailand, he will have a number of scores to settle.

That is why some people are sitting on the fence these days.

They are ready and preparing for Thaksin having a say in Thai affairs again.

[rubl]

The OP is about 'vote-buying and graft undermining Thailand's competitiveness'.

It's interesting to see lots of remarks regarding k. Thaksin who's a fugitive on the run and is not involved in the coming elections. He's still banned from actively playing part in politics and secondly he's convicted which means he couldn't run as candidate even if he wanted. The suggestion that k. Thaksin will help Thailand is absurd. To have people say 'wait till he's back' seems a bit ludicrous and certainly very sad

[lungmi]

A link for information. no personal comment .

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/MF17Ae01.html

[Mitker]

I think you miss the point. Thaksin succes is not about this or that policy. That's the old Thaksin, the one that Sondhi helped to kill.

The new Thaksin is about challenging the establishment. He appeals to everybody. From the poor guy in his rice field to the successful businessman who is tired to be restrain by dumb civil servants whose only qualification is to be born in the right family.

The old Thaksin would have probably disappeared by now. The new Thaksin will probably remembered as the political leader who helped the Thai democracy in the 21st century.

Totally agree, 100%

Thaksin would have dug a big hole for himself, shot himself in the foot and tripped over his own ego.

Having a coup and getting rid of him in that way transformed his image. I think if he had been left alone he would be a forgotten man.

His transformation was not of his own making, but the stupidity of others who thought he would fade away.

Thaksin has not changed, how people see him has. The majority of the voters see him as a hero who is fighting ingrained cheating and corruption. He must be laughing up his sleeve at how it has all turned out. 5 years later his sister stands to gain power and he will be the power maker behind all the smoke and mirrors.

As ye sow, ye shall reap. Quite apt for those that thought they were smart and he would slowly dissapear.

My fear is if he ever gets back into Thailand, he will have a number of scores to settle.

That is why some people are sitting on the fence these days.

They are ready and preparing for Thaksin having a say in Thai affairs again.

You are right.

He didn't change. He just learned.

That's why it's going to be even worse than before if he somehow gets back.

Capital + interest + revenge (and with a far firmer grip given the lesson).

[lungmi]

An other good link.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/MF16Ae01.html

[lannarebirth]

I think you miss the point. Thaksin succes is not about this or that policy. That's the old Thaksin, the one that Sondhi helped to kill.

The new Thaksin is about challenging the establishment. He appeals to everybody. From the poor guy in his rice field to the successful businessman who is tired to be restrain by dumb civil servants whose only qualification is to be born in the right family.

The old Thaksin would have probably disappeared by now. The new Thaksin will probably remembered as the political leader who helped the Thai democracy in the 21st century.

Totally agree, 100%

Thaksin would have dug a big hole for himself, shot himself in the foot and tripped over his own ego.

Having a coup and getting rid of him in that way transformed his image. I think if he had been left alone he would be a forgotten man.

His transformation was not of his own making, but the stupidity of others who thought he would fade away.

Thaksin has not changed, how people see him has. The majority of the voters see him as a hero who is fighting ingrained cheating and corruption. He must be laughing up his sleeve at how it has all turned out. 5 years later his sister stands to gain power and he will be the power maker behind all the smoke and mirrors.

As ye sow, ye shall reap. Quite apt for those that thought they were smart and he would slowly dissapear.

My fear is if he ever gets back into Thailand, he will have a number of scores to settle.

That is why some people are sitting on the fence these days.

They are ready and preparing for Thaksin having a say in Thai affairs again.

What you outline is one scenario that might have happened, but I don't think it was as likely as his becoming a despot. His actions to load the police force and the army with his relations would have cemented his power regardless of what the people may have come to believe about him. Maybe Thailand should have let that happen. It would be in the dumpster now but it might emerge from there a little wiser. Or maybe not.

[bkk_mike]

Out of curiosity, how do you buy a vote?

In the West you go into a polling booth & no-one can see what you write on that card. Your name isn't on it either.

You then put the card into the ballot box with thousands of others, so there's no way of knowing which one's yours.

As an individual voter, I think you probably would be able to, quite easily, take money from one candidate, while voting for another.

It might be problematic to take money from all the parties as they could conspire after the election (especially if they go into coalition) and cross-check the ID numbers of the people who've taken money.

However when it comes to whole villages being bribed by giving the money to a head-man to pass around. As it would become a large number of ballots in a single ballot box, that could be verifiable if they attended the counting.

At least that's one thing about Thailand. It's better than countries where they do ballot-stuffing, or simply announce the result without actually counting the ballots... The fact they pay for votes means the votes must actually count...

[hyperdimension]

Those who have been found to have received money should be fined many multiples of the amount that they received. I think this would reduce vote buying.

[JetsetBkk]

Out of curiosity, how do you buy a vote?

In the West you go into a polling booth & no-one can see what you write on that card. Your name isn't on it either.

You then put the card into the ballot box with thousands of others, so there's no way of knowing which one's yours.

If I recall correctly, in England your voting slip has a number on it that relates directly to you. But it takes a court order or similar for someone to check who you voted for.

re. vote buying: today, a friend of mine told me his wife was going back to Petchabun to vote Democrat. She was given 1,500 baht - 1,000 for the bus, 500 for the vote. Apparently it is a Red area, so the Dems need all the votes they can get.

[tartempion]

Out of curiosity, how do you buy a vote?

In the West you go into a polling booth & no-one can see what you write on that card. Your name isn't on it either.

You then put the card into the ballot box with thousands of others, so there's no way of knowing which one's yours.

In the villages here voters are led to believe that there are ways to find out for who you voted, small brother is watching you.

Also reminds me at church when I was a kid: the preacher priest warning voters they would go to hell if the did not vote for the Catholic party.

More worrisome is what happened to GF's brother, went to vote last elections and was told he was registered in a town 100kms away and thus could not vote!

He went to the tessabaan last week to have this changed, hope for him he won't experience identity theft again

[prakhonchai nick]

The cash has started flowing in my area.

Locals received 200bt each yesterday to favour a particular candidate

[JetsetBkk]

The cash has started flowing in my area.

Locals received 200bt each yesterday to favour a particular candidate

Truly shocking. The going rate is 500.

[prakhonchai nick]

It is quite clear nobody in authority has any concerns about vote buying despite all the pre-election words.

The Electoral Watchdog, (how many people and how many millions do they cost?) must be walking round with their eyes closed. Throughout Thailand votes are being bought, everyone knows, yet the watchdogs never see anything nor react to reports given to them.

[CoCo55]

It is quite clear nobody in authority has any concerns about vote buying despite all the pre-election words.

The Electoral Watchdog, (how many people and how many millions do they cost?) must be walking round with their eyes closed. Throughout Thailand votes are being bought, everyone knows, yet the watchdogs never see anything nor react to reports given to them.

maybe they are just not ready for Democracy ?

[JetsetBkk]

It is quite clear nobody in authority has any concerns about vote buying despite all the pre-election words.

The Electoral Watchdog, (how many people and how many millions do they cost?) must be walking round with their eyes closed. Throughout Thailand votes are being bought, everyone knows, yet the watchdogs never see anything nor react to reports given to them.

maybe they are just not ready for Democracy ?

Hammer, nail, head.