Will This Look Khee Niao?

[susanschwaiger]

Hello,

Something puzzles me . So, I just ask here:

1. Our cleaner comes twice a week, each time 3 hours . We pay her 1000 Baht per week. My hubby needs to go on biz trip often so during his absence, our home will be quite clean because I am a very tidy person. I want to cancel cleaner's work during the days when only I am at home. But.... my hubby says this will not look nice because the cleaner will have a loss. Really so? In China, we pay the cleaner by actual working times, not by month.

2. Is it a must to pay tips in restaurants? Does Thai also pay? In eastern Asian areas like China, Japan or Korea, we dont tip as we think every occupation has its clear job responsibility, and we pay what the price charges. But I've heard waiter/waitress are low paid here and rely a lot on tips. Well, then , how about the restaurant's cleaning aunties, delivery drivers, etc? They do a even more tough work than the waiter/waitress. ....

Cheers

SS

[smokie36]

I can hear you squeaking.

[smokie36]

1. Depends how much you value the cleaners work when you are busy.

2. I only ever tip for at least good service. Never if the bill is ++

[susanschwaiger]

"squeaking"... Ho ho.. that really enriches my vocabulary

Thanks for your "tips" though!

[loong]

You must have one of the highest paid cleaners in Thailand with an hourly rate of 166 Baht, so you couldn't really be called stingy.

Tipping is not customary in Thailand. I think that you should only tip if the service is excellent and you feel that the staff have gone out of their way to make your dining experience a pleasant one. I always think it strange that so many people tip waitresses yet never even think of going into the hot kitchen and tipping the cook who is, after all the most important person.

[Cuban]

> Our cleaner comes twice a week, each time 3 hours . We pay her 1,000 Baht per week.

IMHO way too much! I know this is a piecemeal rate and not a daily salary. But you are paying the equivalent of 25,000 Baht a month salary, a degree holding professional with five years experience could expect about 20,000 Baht a month in BKK.

Consider that someone willing to take so much does not respect you or the job, the mentality will be "they have too much money".

> I want to cancel cleaner's work during the days when only I am at home.

> But.... my hubby says this will not look nice because the cleaner will have a loss.

There is an element of affecting another's ability to earn, and it appears your husband is aware of the Thai sensibilities on such matters, there is also the "loss of face" element that you have not considered.

Unless you are doing your own cleaning when the cleaner is absent you might find more work for the person to do, or work to a higher standard. Sweeping out rooms with tiled floors does not take long.

> 2. Is it a must to pay tips in restaurants? Does Thai also pay?

It is typical to pay the amount on the bill rounded up to a convenient figure, the "money clerk" will like this as they do not have to engage brain too much. There is no need to give 10% on top of the bill as a standard "tip", this is not Thai custom. Those that just pay tips as standard are not treated with greater respect, just seen as a bit stupid.

Point of information: If you leave the change on the tray the tip goes to the house, but is often split amount the whole staff. If the waiting staff you have had are particularly good give a nice (not scruffy) 20 Baht note directly to the person.

On salaries look at this document: http://www.scribd.com/doc/11633984/Thailand-Salary-2007

[QED]

I was kind of brainwashed into the tipping thing, and thought it would be rude not to during my first three years here. Since starting work a few years ago and having lunch with my Thai staff most days at Thai style restaurants, I have learned that the Thais do not tip - ever!

I normally leave 20 baht in the wallet/tray in a bar, but now only occassionally in restaurants when the service is above and beyond.

Agree with the previous poster, NEVER tip in a ++ establishment, a point of principal for me.

I have spent quite a bit of time working in Indonesia lately and it still pis**s me off that they add 21% to every bill - why not just advertise the real price? Last hotel tried to book me a taxi to the airport, not only did they try to charge double the going rate, but wanted to add 21% to it as well - <deleted>? I walked out to the road and flagged one down.

Sorry, off topic rant about another country finished.

[glanville63]

I wondered why Pattaya was so noisy. It must be all the squeaky people here. I heard a story once that a guy was able to survive here on 10,000 baht a month and I said it was impossible. I've changed my mind. I think most of the people who have replied here could survive on half that.

[QED]

I wondered why Pattaya was so noisy. It must be all the squeaky people here. I heard a story once that a guy was able to survive here on 10,000 baht a month and I said it was impossible. I've changed my mind. I think most of the people who have replied here could survive on half that.

Dumb comment, I get through at least 10 times that amount on a monthly basis - just not as green as I used to be...

edit// typo

Edited June 26, 2011 by QED

[jdinasia]

I was kind of brainwashed into the tipping thing, and thought it would be rude not to during my first three years here. Since starting work a few years ago and having lunch with my Thai staff most days at Thai style restaurants, I have learned that the Thais do not tip - ever!

I normally leave 20 baht in the wallet/tray in a bar, but now only occassionally in restaurants when the service is above and beyond.

Agree with the previous poster, NEVER tip in a ++ establishment, a point of principal for me.

I have spent quite a bit of time working in Indonesia lately and it still pis**s me off that they add 21% to every bill - why not just advertise the real price? Last hotel tried to book me a taxi to the airport, not only did they try to charge double the going rate, but wanted to add 21% to it as well - <deleted>? I walked out to the road and flagged one down.

Sorry, off topic rant about another country finished.

I hope that you mean to imply that your Thai staff don't tip ever, because if you are speaking about all Thais then you are absolutely incorrect. My staff (when at Thai style places) leave the 1 baht coins or if there are more than a couple of them 10 baht plus the 1 baht coins. My BF (Thai) tips more than I do.

To the OP ---

answer to Q1 --- Yes

answer to Q2 --- Depends on where (and tips are usually but not always handled communally)

Thailand is not East Asia, nor is it anywhere else but Thailand. Pattaya is an even stranger sub-section of Thailand.

Edited June 26, 2011 by jdinasia

[susanschwaiger]

Thanks to all you guys! Hmmm, now I really feel like to "squeak"

Haste makes mistakes. Our cleaner was recommended to us by the real estate agent. She used to work for a Japanese family so we accepted this price. Once, the agent called us, saying the cleaner wants to raise the price to 600B each time. After checking with the cleaner, we found out it was only the agent's idea. So, quite suspicious that maybe the agent takes some agent fee from cleaner's income. Hard to know.

Sigh...it is not so easy to get all the info you want in a foreign country. Our home is always very clean and tidy. We do the laundry and wash the plates by ourselves. I think our cleaner has a quite easy time working for us. Of course, she also does a very good job. We are quite happy with her.

I do agree that reasonable generosity is elegant, but "overdo" only makes one look stupid. There are still many more people that indeed need help, like the orphans and handicapped.

[QED]

Thanks to all you guys! Hmmm, now I really feel like to "squeak"

Haste makes mistakes. Our cleaner was recommended to us by the real estate agent. She used to work for a Japanese family so we accepted this price. Once, the agent called us, saying the cleaner wants to raise the price to 600B each time. After checking with the cleaner, we found out it was only the agent's idea. So, quite suspicious that maybe the agent takes some agent fee from cleaner's income. Hard to know.

Sigh...it is not so easy to get all the info you want in a foreign country. Our home is always very clean and tidy. We do the laundry and wash the plates by ourselves. I think our cleaner has a quite easy time working for us. Of course, she also does a very good job. We are quite happy with her.

I do agree that reasonable generosity is elegant, but "overdo" only makes one look stupid. There are still many more people that indeed need help, like the orphans and handicapped.

Wow, you do the laundry and dishes youselves? What is the cleaner for exactly? Cleaning floors and bathrooms does not take 6 hours a week!

[QED]

I was kind of brainwashed into the tipping thing, and thought it would be rude not to during my first three years here. Since starting work a few years ago and having lunch with my Thai staff most days at Thai style restaurants, I have learned that the Thais do not tip - ever!

I normally leave 20 baht in the wallet/tray in a bar, but now only occassionally in restaurants when the service is above and beyond.

Agree with the previous poster, NEVER tip in a ++ establishment, a point of principal for me.

I have spent quite a bit of time working in Indonesia lately and it still pis**s me off that they add 21% to every bill - why not just advertise the real price? Last hotel tried to book me a taxi to the airport, not only did they try to charge double the going rate, but wanted to add 21% to it as well - <deleted>? I walked out to the road and flagged one down.

Sorry, off topic rant about another country finished.

I hope that you mean to imply that your Thai staff don't tip ever, because if you are speaking about all Thais then you are absolutely incorrect. My staff (when at Thai style places) leave the 1 baht coins or if there are more than a couple of them 10 baht plus the 1 baht coins. My BF (Thai) tips more than I do.

Well I have about 120 now from all over the country, seems like a good cross section to me. All with a minimum of a Bachelor's degree, many with Master's, and a few PHD's. They are all quite affluent by Thai standards, and yes I am implying - and stating a fact, I have never seen one of them tip anybody.

[susanschwaiger]

Wow, you do the laundry and dishes youselves? What is the cleaner for exactly? Cleaning floors and bathrooms does not take 6 hours a week!

Well, we are just a young couple. Not too many plates and clothes (some clothes are sent out to laundry shops).

Our cleaner is very good. She makes home like a hotel, outside and inside too. Everywhere is dustless and shiny. Even a neat freak can not find an excuse to complain about her

[Cuban]

> We do the laundry and wash the plates by ourselves

What exactly does the cleaner clean?

An unskilled farm labourer earns 180-200 Baht for a day's (8am - 4pm) work in the heat of the fields. You really need to reset your ideas of the worth of money and apply them to your new environment.

The talk of being tight fisted is bizarre and only applies if you seek to live as a tourist in a holiday resort at tourist prices. If you live (not exist) within a different country from your own you would be wise to understand what the local people do and why they do it.

My guess is the agent is already taking a job commission from your cleaner.

[Darrel]

Point of information: If you leave the change on the tray the tip goes to the house, but is often split amount the whole staff. If the waiting staff you have had are particularly good give a nice (not scruffy) 20 Baht note directly to the person.

Many times I have watched farangs settle their bill in a no-name Soi Buakow Thai restaurant that I often eat in.

Many leave quite substantial tips (often 10 or 20%) but they almost invariably do this directly to the owner, who is the only one who ever handles money. He always gives a wai in thanks but the cash goes straight into his apron pocket, where, I suspect, it remains.

On that place's turnover (which is extremely high, even though individual dishes only cost 30-50B) I am certain that the amount left to the owner as "tips" covers the entire wages bill 50 times over or more.

[susanschwaiger]

Well I have about 120 now from all over the country, seems like a good cross section to me. All with a minimum of a Bachelor's degree, many with Master's, and a few PHD's. They are all quite affluent by Thai standards, and yes I am implying - and stating a fact, I have never seen one of them tip anybody.

In my previous posts, I didn't mean that in East Asian countries, people never tip. Of course there are reasons that people tip occasionally: in a good mood, got extra efforts from the waiter/waitress, for some special events, etc.

But our basic understanding is: Doing a good service is a service worker's duty.

And I've been some times for dinner with my hubby's thai staff. I never seen them tip either. They are all of manager levels in a internaltional company, well educated and decent too. But I guess if there is some good reasons, they will also tip, but just not every time in every restaurant.

[susanschwaiger]

>

The talk of being tight fisted is bizarre and only applies if you seek to live as a tourist in a holiday resort at tourist prices. If you live (not exist) within a different country from your own you would be wise to understand what the local people do and why they do it.

My guess is the agent is already taking a job commission from your cleaner.

Very truth. Be in Rome, do as Romans do!

[jdinasia]

Well I have about 120 now from all over the country, seems like a good cross section to me. All with a minimum of a Bachelor's degree, many with Master's, and a few PHD's. They are all quite affluent by Thai standards, and yes I am implying - and stating a fact, I have never seen one of them tip anybody.

Wow, You apparently have the most tight-fisted staff in Thailand! I have seen Thais tip in many many many situations, from 10 baht to the parking guy on up to what was (imho) overtipping at restaurants. I often guide my own tipping by watching what locals tip and often ask about tipping. Sitting in a Thai massage place (for Thais not targeting foreigners) over many many many hours on Onnut in BKK, I would say that the vast majority tip. (There the tip averaged 40 baht/pp -- but the price was only 100 baht.hr)

[Geekfreaklover]

I think you are paying too much for your maid/cleaner. The agent is more than likely taking over half of what you pay. Perhaps you can employ her directly?

Edited June 26, 2011 by Geekfreaklover

[NALAK]

that price would be way over the top for me, i pay 100 per hour to my builder/handyman and he says it to much and i might not take him back. he is skilled worker, cleaner i would say your paying way over the top and if she came through agency she will be paying them i suspect

[susanschwaiger]

I think you are paying too much for your maid/cleaner. The agent is more than likely taking over half of what you pay. Perhaps you can employ her directly?

I can't speak Thai at all. Everytime must trouble secretary to translate. Keep the situation for a while and II'm sure will find a mild way out.

[Geekfreaklover]

I think you are paying too much for your maid/cleaner. The agent is more than likely taking over half of what you pay. Perhaps you can employ her directly?

I can't speak Thai at all. Everytime must trouble secretary to translate. Keep the situation for a while and II'm sure will find a mild way out.

Sounds like a plan. Perhaps mention to the secretary about the rate. My guess is that the maid is being paid from the agent, and probably being paid around the forty baht an hour mark. Don't tell the agent this as they will lose face. Just tell them it sems too expensive and that you are thinking of exploring other options.

[Ulysses G.]

I wondered why Pattaya was so noisy. It must be all the squeaky people here. I heard a story once that a guy was able to survive here on 10,000 baht a month and I said it was impossible. I've changed my mind. I think most of the people who have replied here could survive on half that.

It is interesting to see how balloon chasers think.

This nonsense about how poor people look down on you for giving them a decent salary or tip is most enlightening.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Cuban]

....around the forty baht an hour mark. Don't tell the agent this as they will lose face. Just tell them it sems too expensive and that you are thinking of exploring other options.

40 Baht an hour is a rate I have seen before, if the maid/cleaner is a good worker and does not steal stuff etc. she is probably worth keeping, you could ensure she gets a salary that you approve of directly in an envelope, privately. (You might ask if the cleaner is happy working with you before embarking on this corrective move.)

IMHO the way to tackle it is get a quote or two from some of these companies (link below) so you have an email to wave under noses. Say that your husband is angry with you at the expense of having a maid and he is loosing face because of this with his big boss, so you will have to stop having the cleaner unless there is some way that the fee could be adjusted to be in line with the email quotes that you have.

This is a much more tactical way to deal with the situation within a framework that a Thai, in position of agency administrator will understand and react to. They will understand that you as a women are being hassled by an angry husband and that if 'face' is at risk it is a serious matter. If you have qualms about playing an un-PC sexist card you have a whole country full of natives to bring up to the 20th Century before you can start on 21th Century political correctness.

My wife might sometimes blame me for the refusal to something a relative or friend that is hassling her for, she will tell me later what I was supposed to have said or done. This removes any blame from her so she does not loose face within her social circle and I am acknowledged for not being an easy touch, sometimes it's a loan of money, a car or tools etc.

One of many results from a Google "Maid or Cleaner Pattaya". Link here.

HTH

[Cuban]

You have learnt "Khee Niao" for tight fisted.

Another phrase for your vocabulary "Chal lat" in common usage meaning wise with money or having common sense.

[Tolley]

Most of the Thais i know tip.

If the service is good why not tip.

The fact is the wages are miserable for lots of lower skilled Thais so why not give a little extra.

You will also earn merit by doing so!

I think the agency is ripping you off with the cleaning charge thou.

Cancel the cleaning with the agency and hire the cleaner directly at a more suitable rate.

[ESB7]

Thanks to all you guys! Hmmm, now I really feel like to "squeak"

Haste makes mistakes. Our cleaner was recommended to us by the real estate agent. She used to work for a Japanese family so we accepted this price. Once, the agent called us, saying the cleaner wants to raise the price to 600B each time. After checking with the cleaner, we found out it was only the agent's idea. So, quite suspicious that maybe the agent takes some agent fee from cleaner's income. Hard to know.

Sigh...it is not so easy to get all the info you want in a foreign country. Our home is always very clean and tidy. We do the laundry and wash the plates by ourselves. I think our cleaner has a quite easy time working for us. Of course, she also does a very good job. We are quite happy with her.

I do agree that reasonable generosity is elegant, but "overdo" only makes one look stupid. There are still many more people that indeed need help, like the orphans and handicapped.

You are paying way too much...4,000 baht gets me a 24/7 nanny that takes care of kids, washing ironing cleaning and gardening......live in plus food.....look around for someone else.

[susanschwaiger]

You are paying way too much...4,000 baht gets me a 24/7 nanny that takes care of kids, washing ironing cleaning and gardening......live in plus food.....look around for someone else.

Corrections will be taken definately

[smokie36]

I wondered why Pattaya was so noisy. It must be all the squeaky people here. I heard a story once that a guy was able to survive here on 10,000 baht a month and I said it was impossible. I've changed my mind. I think most of the people who have replied here could survive on half that.

It is interesting to see how balloon chasers think.

This nonsense about how poor people look down on you for giving them a decent salary or tip is most enlightening.

I agree UG. Interesting to note how the rich justify their greed.