Three British teenagers killed in Thai bus crash

[exalll]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

New passenger coaches in the UK have them. Probably required by law now. Not to say that all passengers wear them though.

Last time I took an inter-city bus in the UK (2 years ago), the driver not only announced that everyone had to put on their seat-belts, but he then walked down the aisle checking everyone before he set off.

[Napat9]

Sorry for the loss of life at such a young age. I lost two friends to a car accident when they were 23 & 25, they were brothers... and this was in rural Connecticut, one of the wealthiest states in the US. My point; automobile accidents are still (I believe) the number one cause of death while traveling from A to B no matter what country you are in. I pray for the families and friends of these kids..

[wackysleet]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Brake failure in the UK on a bus or coach is not possible if the brakes are air brakes because they are controlled by a Broms system, losing air through a leak will cause the brakes to come on, with vehicles here often being of European make I'm sure they would have a similar safety device fitted and as for swerving to avoid a dog, most unlikely, ask yourself why he was on the wrong side of the road.

Your correct in saying that accidents do happen here but unfortunately far too often and although these tragic events are publicised one very rarely hears or reads of any prosecution or action taken against the one responsible.

[hpwheelman]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

You seem to have missed the story on Tuesday describing this accident. One of those passenger truck drivers decided to pass cars on a down hill shoot, unfortunately for all involved he went to fast and could not get back in his proper lane in time to avoid hitting a bus. This accident was a direct result of poor driving standards, and anyone who has ever driven on a mountain road in Thailand knows that it is one of the most dangerous things to do here. Thai drivers pass on blind curves at high speeds (or just figure the on coming traffic lane is there to make the curve easier to take at high speeds sometimes). This was an entirely preventable incident, and my condolences to the families of all the victims. Oh and I like many of the commenters here I am sure have a Thai drivers license. I got mine here and went through the actual test/class. It is a joke. If you want to know that your not supposed to drive a tank down the road, but it's OK to drive a car without headlights, then go take the test. Seriously, that was on the exam.

[edwinchester]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Yes you are right , those stories usually end up by investigation " brake failure" ... I agree no need to jump in conclusion but we all know ,specially those living here ,that mini vans drivers , bus drivers ,pick up drivers rarely care about their passengers ,how many accidents everyday because of excessive speed and inadequate driving behavior ???????

I have been doing 90 visa run for 7 years with no probs,great drivers too.Been travelijng all over Thailand with,u guessed it,no probs.Deaths can happen all over the world,and would be interesting to see the death rate for Thailand and uk,i canty be arsed to look but somebody will.

RIP LADS

The annual death toll on UK roads is about 3000. The 'official' toll on Thai roads is about 12000 although a UN report reported the true figure to be closer to 25000 as official stats only include those dieing at the scene. So fot two countries with similar populations you are between 4 and 8 times more likely to die on Thai roads than those in the UK.

[Fishface]

Swerving to save a dog is still bad driving. Brake failure is almost impossible without warning.

There is no operators system here, thats government controlled licensee having the experience and maintenace programs and trained drivers for HGV or PSV's.

More likely drunk, glue sniffing, ya ba or just racing his mate with a fag hanging out of his mouth and his left leg up on the dash board while his co-driver eggs him on.

I am a HGV driver and I have tapped bus drivers on the shoulder a few times here, it worked for a few minutes. I have not ridden in a mini bus for 15 years or more, they are completely nuts.

I have read situations similar to this where a driver did a runner and the owner of the tuck did not know who was driving it that day--so he says.

Terrible disrespect for the dead (foriegner) and authority.

Thailands usual mix of ego and superior gung ho attitude.

[mrmazinkle]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Yes you are right , those stories usually end up by investigation " brake failure" ... I agree no need to jump in conclusion but we all know ,specially those living here ,that mini vans drivers , bus drivers ,pick up drivers rarely care about their passengers ,how many accidents everyday because of excessive speed and inadequate driving behavior ???????

I have been doing 90 visa run for 7 years with no probs,great drivers too.Been travelijng all over Thailand with,u guessed it,no probs.Deaths can happen all over the world,and would be interesting to see the death rate for Thailand and uk,i canty be arsed to look but somebody will.

RIP LADS

About 10 times greater..1000 in uk and 1000 in Thailand..oh that's at Songkran..Main killer motorbikes..with young kids and no helmets..I think about 10,000 last year...

[Rick1]

I don't disagree with you Wanderlust, however there are often other contributing factors to a crash other than human error, such as vehicles that are not fit for purpose. IE the blame should also be directed to the owner of the bus if it is found to have worn parts such as breaks etc. So often in Thailand people are not held accountable for their greed and blatant lack of due care. Will court proceedings be issued? I doubt it. A large payoff to the BIB is more likely. This means that the STANDARD never improves and vehicles with bald tyre / bad brakes continue to be used, unchecked.

This is the real problem Thailand faces...... corruption and face.

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

[AllanG]

I think we have to admit that driving standards here are pretty bad, especially on the country roads.<br>I see the most dangerous manouvers on a daily basis, the classics are overtaking in unsafe conditions e.g. on a blind hill or a blind bend, drunk driving, racing pickups fully loaded up with goods, speeding through small villages driving long hours on some kind of wake up drug.<br>There is a general lack of care and "fingers crossed" in tight situations where normally one would proceed with caution.<br>The cheaper buses are usually some of the worst offenders, speeding and dangerous overtaking are the norm.<br>The government needs to bring in a licensing system for bus drivers where they are licensed and regularly checked as in the western countries.<br>

Is it true that in Thailand, there are no mental institutions, suitable patients are given licences to drive buses !

[EyesWideOpen]

Sad to hear about this, but not surprising. I have spent 11 years traveling extensively throughout Thailand by motorcycle, and I have to say the driving skills of the bus and van drivers leave a lot to be desired. While I certainly realize that bus accidents occur back in farang land, there seems to be a whole bunch of them here, with quite a string of them in the last few months. Normally Thais die in these crashes, so nothing is really done. Since Thailand operates by crisis management, maybe with a few tourists killed by incompetent bus drivers something will actually be done.

Hate to jump to conclusions ,but if bus A and bus B have a head on collision, either bus A screwed up, or bus B screwed up.

[h5kaf]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Clearly a post by someone who is either new to Thailand or who has never been here.

[lucjoker]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

i still don't get why people with a brain trust a driver without a brain ?

So never ever take a taxi,bus or whatever in Thailand.Walk or drive yourself

if you want to have anny chance in this country.

RIP

[wackysleet]

My hearts go out to all their family and friends...this is just devastating news on the back of the crash that claimed 8 lives last weekend in Chiang Mai...So young and everything to live for!I have offically given the minibus mode of transport the big wide berth and only catch the train down to Hua Hin...just too many crashes now,what with the one just out of Pattaya recently!

Every week I get the Greenbus from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai and that road is so twisty with lot's of double yellow lines and the drivers continually overtake on the blind bends, frequently it seems that an accident is inevitable but will happen for sure someday, hopefully something will be done sooner rather than later.

[DieterWiehe]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Yes you are right , those stories usually end up by investigation " brake failure" ... I agree no need to jump in conclusion but we all know ,specially those living here ,that mini vans drivers , bus drivers ,pick up drivers rarely care about their passengers ,how many accidents everyday because of excessive speed and inadequate driving behavior ???????

I have been doing 90 visa run for 7 years with no probs,great drivers too.Been travelijng all over Thailand with,u guessed it,no probs.Deaths can happen all over the world,and would be interesting to see the death rate for Thailand and uk,i canty be arsed to look but somebody will.

RIP LADS

Well especially if you lock at the traffic deaths during Public holidays.there you can see how safe it is.. and the all have the proper insurance judging by all the Buddha amulets in the front window.:jap:

[pac4155]

I don't think there's anything worse in life than having to bury your son...

I took the night bus yesterday from Bangkok to Khon Kaen, and the driver was safe and conscientious. They are some good ones out there, but they're in a minority.

Edited July 1, 2011 by pac4155

[cottmann]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

Buses, that is, coaches rather than commuter buses, in both Japan and Taiwan have seat belts and have had for years, to my own knowledge.

[wackysleet]

I have been reading here a lot and, unfortunately, all too often, the worst is assumed by most people. It is worse than back-seat driving or divan refereeing during a game. First, the only things known are what the reporters report. Then, these reportes are described here as less than "informative" and so on. Then, criticism about whatever can be conjured up about Thailand, drivers, laws, social norms and so on. It seems that, here, people writing really do not like Thailand. There seems to be blinders on such that, if it is not like back home (which it really is, if thought about icarefully, as people from all over the world die in accidents in England, Austrailia and the US as well as other nations in the entire world, which are not mentioned here at all). Unfortunately, the bias is all to clear and comments such as "go anywhere else you can [but not to Thailand]" are more demeaning to Thailand that I am grieviously disturbed. I would like to read more thoughtful comments rather than visceral reactions. There is too little analysis. I am going to do a little research on a few things, if I can, and put this in real perspective for people here so that they will be able to "get a grip" on reality about home as well as about Thailand.

Are you so sure that your perception of Thailand is so right. there are good things about Thailand, unfortunately it does not include bus drivers, perhaps your the one with your head in the sand.

[somchai jones]

I've lived in Thailand for several years and I'm by no means a 'Thai basher' as you'll see from any of my previous posts. I personally (rightly or wrongly) enjoy the chaos here and that's probably one of the reasons I choose to live here.

However, to ty to defend the driving standards here and compare them with UK/US is ridiculous. I drive both a car and a motorbike and every single day see actions that still leave me aghast. I don't think it's Thailand bashing to comment on how bad the standards of road safety are here, it is simply stating what anyone who uses the roads here already knows and possibly providing a warning to those tourists/travellers that don't.

[dutchweller]

Thailand The Hub of Horrific Totally avoidable "accidents".

Good to see this is allover the international News I hope it puts a big dent in some peoples Wallet.

As usual we will have some "offical" Lutenant Commander Somchai Isitonmyassalldaytakingteamoney making the typical Knee jerk Thai reaction give a press release exclaiming.

"Thailand will become the Hub of Safe driving"

Then we will see no action

Some guy will end up on a charge

Be paraded around on the media

and it will be announced all is safe and well in Thailand again.

Somchai and his gang will drift quietly off to sleep again dreaming of all the tea money he will be getting.

TIT..

Thailand: "The Hub of useless government officials and lip service"

[Dukeleto]

When traffic police start checking more than licences and helmets things may improve. Roads and traffic are probably top of the pops most dangerous of "things" to do in Thailand. I am amazed there are not more airplane crashes. I loath having to get on a domestic flight here but with the roads being even more dangerous and walking just gets you "touted" to death.

[MaxYakov]

I would like to know if they were on a double decker riding on top or below. I had always considered riding lower deck to be safer on windy roads, but in this case it may have not been.

Idea:

Seatbelts available on bus seats

Probably the safest and certainly the best bus service in Thailand is Nakonchai Air (NCA). Rode it once from Khon Kaen when I bailed from a van being driven carelessly on a visa run. Their buses have seat belts and it's run like an airline limiting seats to 32 and priced accordingly - I paid around 350 baht for a very pleasant (but too cold) Khon Kaen to Bangkok oneway/late-night. Don't work for them, just know a good deal when I experience it.

[Kalbo]

I have been doing 90 visa run for 7 years with no probs,great drivers too.Been travelijng all over Thailand with,u guessed it,no probs.Deaths can happen all over the world,and would be interesting to see the death rate for Thailand and uk,i canty be arsed to look but somebody will.

RIP LADS

Road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year

Thailand 19.6

United Kingdom 3.59

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Totally agree with this - far too many people stereotype Thai's and Thailand. It makes me cringe every time something like this happens and everybody spouts off about how poor the driving standards in Thailand are. They are worse than most countries without doubt, but to jump to the conclusion that accidents are ALWAYS the fault of the driver is wrong. It gets monotonous seeing the stock phrases relating to how dangerous Thailands roads are, how rampant corruption is, how the sexpats should be hung drawn and quartered etc: haven't posters got something more interesting to write about instead of coming out with the same boring mantra???

Before looking at poster's comments I was wondering how many pathetic RIP and condolences utterings there was going to be. As expected, they raised their ugly head virtually from the off and It was refreshing to see this sensible posting (from a newbie as well). Other more experienced posters should take note and "cut the crap" as it is meaningless tripe, adds nothing and is as boring as hell!! How about some imaginitive and constructive postings for a change or is that beyond posters capabilities??

[ashacat]

but things like this could just as easily have happened if they remained in UK.

Not really..... As per the post above, you are over 5 times more likely to be killed on the roads in Thailand.

Edited July 1, 2011 by ashacat

[Frankster]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

The article stated that it was a 'head-on' collision. Due to brake failure? Avoiding an animal (even a water buffalo?)? I'd say either poor judgment in passing, driving too fast for conditions, a blowout, driver inattentive or asleep. Someone or something screwed-up - more likely someone.

Take the train it's more fun and it's safer !!!!

[Scratch]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

National Express busses in the UK are fitted with seatbelts.

[somchai jones]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Totally agree with this - far too many people stereotype Thai's and Thailand. It makes me cringe every time something like this happens and everybody spouts off about how poor the driving standards in Thailand are. They are worse than most countries without doubt, but to jump to the conclusion that accidents are ALWAYS the fault of the driver is wrong. It gets monotonous seeing the stock phrases relating to how dangerous Thailands roads are, how rampant corruption is, how the sexpats should be hung drawn and quartered etc: haven't posters got something more interesting to write about instead of coming out with the same boring mantra???

Before looking at poster's comments I was wondering how many pathetic RIP and condolences utterings there was going to be. As expected, they raised their ugly head virtually from the off and It was refreshing to see this sensible posting (from a newbie as well). Other more experienced posters should take note and "cut the crap" as it is meaningless tripe, adds nothing and is as boring as hell!! How about some imaginitive and constructive postings for a change or is that beyond posters capabilities??

Calm down fella......as I said in my previous post it's not Thai bashing to give an opinion on road safety here. It's a thread on road safety...

[farangbanok]

Firstly, sincere condolences to the families and friends of those who died.

I regularly use NCA coaches, skilful drivers with no thought of racing other buses. Sometimes it is frustrating to see all the other buses passing, but I get to Khrung Thep on schedule (alive).

For visa runs from Khon Kaen I like to use Chan Tours buses, whose drivers also do not have Bus Grand Prix aspirations.

Both operators do provide seat belts.

I used a normal provincial (aircon) bus to go to Phitsanulok. The driver kept his speed very low while descending the mountainous section, Skilled and careful, so I consider the stereo-typing of Thai bus drivers a little unfair. Sure, there are good and bad drivers everywhere in the world and perhaps the good/bad ratio is somewhat skewed in LOS but it does not mean the bus driver is always wrong.

"DING DING Fares please"

[Junglejumbo]

I do think that the British government should make it known that many drivers in Thaiand are likely to have never taken a driving test and certainly not one that is anything like as strict in the UK. This should be posted on travel related web-sites and guidelines for going to Thailand just like we're informed about diseases and vaccinations.

The British government tends adopts double standards. On the one hand the spirit of the law in Britain assumes that Brits should follow British laws when travelling abroad (especially laws concerning matrimony, age of censent, intellectual property) but couldn't care less about its citizens when they're subjected to standards and incidents by the host country that truly break British laws.

Besides the point, but just wondering why all of the three have rather strange names?

[SICHONSTEVE]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

New passenger coaches in the UK have them. Probably required by law now. Not to say that all passengers wear them though.

Last time I took an inter-city bus in the UK (2 years ago), the driver not only announced that everyone had to put on their seat-belts, but he then walked down the aisle checking everyone before he set off.

The last time I travelled on a bus in England it crashed!! Well bumped another vehicle at a roundabout so nothing particularly serious. These things can and do happen anywhere and everywhere and whilst I appreciate that it is more dangerous on the roads in Thailand you must face facts. Nothing is going to change and so if you travel by road you must accept the dangers. Don't forget, even trains and planes crash occasionally so if you are traveling from A to B then no matter the mode of getting there (even walking) it is always going to be more directly dangerous than sitting in your living room watching TV.