The Election Is Over But The Hatred Remains; Thai Opinion

[themockrat]

Well, the folks down here in the South cannot abide the man or his clone Sister, but to be honest, surely I am the same as almost every expat here, it does not affect me or you one iota. I really dislike him, but it has no affect on my daily life. The truth is the Sister has won but now the party is back in power, he will be calling all the shots. However, if he really is going to get the dollar back at 40 baht then bring it on, I am sure the expats could do with a few years break and an increase in effective spending power. I am also sure most of us will not turn our nose up at a 30% hike in exchange rate.

So Taksin promises to corrode the value of the baht faster than the U.S. is destroying the dollar and you think that's a good thing.

It is simple economics. It is going to happen anyway. The massive increase in public spending that has been promised (all those tablets promised for school kids, the minimum wage hike for graduates, minimum wage for workers), what on earth do you think is going to happen to inflation in this country in the next 12 months? Should the Thai Baht reposition itself to its normal place in the market, then exports from Thailand will boom. Back up goes the shrimp industry to the US and the tourists flock back. So yes, all in all as inflation will rise anyway, yes it will be a marvelous thing for Thailand.

So why are so many foreigners complaining them? Their pensions and overseas funds will be worth more in Thailand. In 2005 (4 years after Thaksin became PM), the Thai Baht peaked at 41.68 to the USD. That means if you sent 1000 USD to Thailand, you got 41,000 Baht. Today, you're lucky if you get 29,000 with the Baht almost dropping under 29 in the past months. I'm sure none of you would complain if you got 12,000 Baht more for every 1000 USD.

Maybe all they're worried about are increased barfines and short time fees for prostitutes, due to the minimum wage increase.

[whybother]

So why are so many foreigners complaining them? Their pensions and overseas funds will be worth more in Thailand. In 2005 (4 years after Thaksin became PM), the Thai Baht peaked at 41.68 to the USD. That means if you sent 1000 USD to Thailand, you got 41,000 Baht. Today, you're lucky if you get 29,000 with the Baht almost dropping under 29 in the past months. I'm sure none of you would complain if you got 12,000 Baht more for every 1000 USD.

Maybe all they're worried about are increased barfines and short time fees for prostitutes, due to the minimum wage increase.

Maybe, not all foreigners in Thailand collect pensions or use funds from overseas.

Maybe, just possibly, they work here. So they would prefer a reasonably strong baht.

[GentlemanJim]

Well, the folks down here in the South cannot abide the man or his clone Sister, but to be honest, surely I am the same as almost every expat here, it does not affect me or you one iota. I really dislike him, but it has no affect on my daily life. The truth is the Sister has won but now the party is back in power, he will be calling all the shots. However, if he really is going to get the dollar back at 40 baht then bring it on, I am sure the expats could do with a few years break and an increase in effective spending power. I am also sure most of us will not turn our nose up at a 30% hike in exchange rate.

So Taksin promises to corrode the value of the baht faster than the U.S. is destroying the dollar and you think that's a good thing.

It is simple economics. It is going to happen anyway. The massive increase in public spending that has been promised (all those tablets promised for school kids, the minimum wage hike for graduates, minimum wage for workers), what on earth do you think is going to happen to inflation in this country in the next 12 months? Should the Thai Baht reposition itself to its normal place in the market, then exports from Thailand will boom. Back up goes the shrimp industry to the US and the tourists flock back. So yes, all in all as inflation will rise anyway, yes it will be a marvelous thing for Thailand.

So why are so many foreigners complaining them? Their pensions and overseas funds will be worth more in Thailand. In 2005 (4 years after Thaksin became PM), the Thai Baht peaked at 41.68 to the USD. That means if you sent 1000 USD to Thailand, you got 41,000 Baht. Today, you're lucky if you get 29,000 with the Baht almost dropping under 29 in the past months. I'm sure none of you would complain if you got 12,000 Baht more for every 1000 USD.

Maybe all they're worried about are increased barfines and short time fees for prostitutes, due to the minimum wage increase.

I don't understand who you are replying to? I am saying that an increase to 40 baht to the dollar is going to be excellent. It wont affect those on Thai incomes unless they spend their money going back to the US or UK etc. I personally would love to see 65 baht to the GBP again, bring it on.

By the way, I really don't believe the people have voted for Thaksin. He is old news. They have been swept off their feet by Yingluck! Pity the misguided fools who voted 'No' didn't do something more constructive for the country.

Edited July 5, 2011 by GentlemanJim

[anterian]

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it".

One facet of reconciliation is accepting responsibility. At NO point have I seen the red shirts, PTP (PPP/TRT) or Thaksin take ANY responsibility for any of their actions.

This might be so to you, others can be more generous in their attitude, and realise that both sides have sinned. Will the army accept responsibility for the coup, the election result makes it clear that the only people who approved of that were those in Bangkok. So a few redshirt supporters are jumping with joy, so are you man or child. You are persisting in an attitude which the Thais have rejected, You are hurt, you are indignant, but until you accept this fact you will just be a sour loser. Abhisit in his resignation speech has shown more dignity than you and many others here. This country has to move forward, and the first step is to reunite, put the past behind it. As tho OP heading says, and as you clearly show, the hatred remains, hatred on both sides, and while this persists any progress towards reconciliation is doomed.

I didn't realise the army was denying that the coup took place. They've accepted responsibility ... and resolved themselves of it.

But, just because both sides have sinned doesn't mean that they should deny they did wrong or not accept responsibility for what they did.

You seem to be ignoring nearly the whole south of Thailand, amongst other areas. "The Thais" haven't rejected anything. The PTP got a small majority of seats, and less than a majority of votes.

Have I changed my stance since the election? It is irrelevant to me that the Democrats lost (although I would have preferred that they got back into government).

My stance since April last year has been that the red shirts accept that they were a cause of some of the deaths from the protests. Many of the deaths were caused directly by the red shirts, and many of them were caused by red shirt actions (attacking the army with guns and various other weapons from well outside their fuel soaked barricades).

But the red shirts, and most of the red shirt supporters on TV, want to put the blame solely on the army and Abhisit.

To move forward, people have to take responsibility. It can't just be brushed under the carpet and ignored.

I will give you an answer, it may be cynical but it is my experience of Thais. You are thinking like a westerner, have you ever known a Thai to accept responsibility for his actions? Why should they change just to please a westerner?

[Jingthing]

I will give you an answer, it may be cynical but it is my experience of Thais. You are thinking like a westerner, have you ever known a Thai to accept responsibility for his actions? Why should they change just to please a westerner?

I have actually known such a Thai but I had to push it with threat of a lawsuit.

Next ...

Edited July 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[rubl]

Just think about it "Thaksin and PT say they want reconcillation" If Tak stayed away from the country and" let it be" maybe there is a slim chance ,but now he will think he's had such an influence on a victory that will give greater incentive to do more. The poison will continue have no doubt.

Please remember that the Thai people have chosen Thaksin. The Thai people WANT Thaksin more than Abhisit, as we've clearly seen in the election. If Thaksin stayed away, what choice would they have? Abhisit. Nobody else. Why should the Democrats have a monopoly on power, if the Thai people really want someone else?

If the Thai people didn't want Thaksin, believe me, they would have not voted for him.

The Thai people didn't vote for k. Thaksin. He was neither a constituency candidate, nor on any party list

Oh btw, with 75% voter participation, out of 28M voters, that's 21M at the most. With 69M Thai people, 21M would mean around 30% of Thai people, not really the same as 'the' Thai people.

Let me tell you, 'we' farang can count

[phiphidon]

The Thai people didn't vote for k. Thaksin. He was neither a constituency candidate, nor on any party list

Oh btw, with 75% voter participation, out of 28M voters, that's 21M at the most. With 69M Thai people, 21M would mean around 30% of Thai people, not really the same as 'the' Thai people.

Let me tell you, 'we' farang can count

Of the number of Thai people who voted, not including those who tried to vote but couldn't because of an EC cock-up (lets face it they can't argue they were not aware of an election coming, it didn't just spring up in their faces), more people voted for the PTP than any other individual party, otherwise those parties would be forming a government (if they get a chance, that is) and not the PTP. How hard is that to understand, but more importantly I think, to swallow?

BTW we "farang" may be able to count but when you're a year or so old you may not be able to do so - not all of the 69M Thai people would be eligible for the vote. It's a simple mistake to make, Gen Prayuth did the same thing, but he's used to military counting, after a War, it's the people that are left that count not the people that are right, to mangle a famous quote.

[gregb]

Just think about it "Thaksin and PT say they want reconcillation" If Tak stayed away from the country and" let it be" maybe there is a slim chance ,but now he will think he's had such an influence on a victory that will give greater incentive to do more. The poison will continue have no doubt.

Please remember that the Thai people have chosen Thaksin. The Thai people WANT Thaksin more than Abhisit, as we've clearly seen in the election. If Thaksin stayed away, what choice would they have? Abhisit. Nobody else. Why should the Democrats have a monopoly on power, if the Thai people really want someone else?

If the Thai people didn't want Thaksin, believe me, they would have not voted for him.

Totally irrelevant.

Thaksin is a criminal who has committed hideous offences against many Thai people. If someone raped and murdered your daughter, and 51% of the people said "we don't care about you because the rapist/murderer gave us free stuff", would you accept that? Are you honestly so obtuse that you believe that represents democracy?

Thaksin is a criminal and if he returns he will need to serve time in prison. Anything else is illegal and immoral. Attempting to whitewash his crimes will mean an automatic forfeiture of any legitimacy the PT government has. At that point, a coup or any other means is authorized to remove a criminal regime that no longer posses a legitimate right to govern.

This is about a crime that has been committed. Not a vote. I don't care who likes Thaksin. He is a criminal and you can't have him. He's going to prison if he comes back. If you don't like, then you hold the rest of the country in contempt, and you better be prepared to kill them all, because a vote won't cut it.

[JAG]

Oh btw, with 75% voter participation, out of 28M voters, that's 21M at the most. With 69M Thai people, 21M would mean around 30% of Thai people, not really the same as 'the' Thai people.

Let me tell you, 'we' farang can count

Wondered how long it would be before the usual suspects started the ball rolling on "they didn't really win because......"

[cdnvic]

I wouldn't post Wikipedia links as proof to anything because anyone can edit the Wiki page to say whatever they want. Look at the bottom of the article for citations from real news sources and post them instead.

I disagree.

Study: Wikipedia as accurate as Britannica

http://news.cnet.com..._3-5997332.html

Experts rate Wikipedia's accuracy higher than non-experts

http://arstechnica.c...006/11/8296.ars

Wikipedia And The Death Of The Expert

http://www.theawl.co...h-of-the-expert

While Wiki certainly isn't 100% accurate neither are other sources given here on TV.

In the big scheme of things I agree, but I've seen countless examples of it being manipulated during online debates (corrected by an editor after the fact). That's why I advise people to refer to more static info that the wiki article is based on as it can't be compromised in the midst of debate.

[PingManDan]

Yes it is time, and they have taken the first big step in doing so, by a real Democratic vote, not a manufactured vote that started most of Thailands hatred in the first place.

[whybother]

Of the number of Thai people who voted, not including those who tried to vote but couldn't because of an EC cock-up (lets face it they can't argue they were not aware of an election coming, it didn't just spring up in their faces), more people voted for the PTP than any other individual party, otherwise those parties would be forming a government (if they get a chance, that is) and not the PTP. How hard is that to understand, but more importantly I think, to swallow?

...

"more people voted for the PTP than any other individual party, otherwise those parties would be forming a government"

Actually, it's difficult to understand, because it's not true.

(note to everyone - please read this from a logical point of view, and leave your your biases out of it)

The PTP got the most votes of any party, but a majority of voters didn't vote for the PTP. If ALL the people that didn't vote PTP voted for one other individual party, PTP would still be forming government since they got a majority of seats.

The Thai system, with 40 parties competing in this election, a party could win every seat with only 3% of the vote (as pointed out to me earlier).

[whybother]

Oh btw, with 75% voter participation, out of 28M voters, that's 21M at the most. With 69M Thai people, 21M would mean around 30% of Thai people, not really the same as 'the' Thai people.

Let me tell you, 'we' farang can count

Wondered how long it would be before the usual suspects started the ball rolling on "they didn't really win because......"

Not at all. It's clear that the PTP won. They got a majority of the seats.

But what didn't happen is "the majority of Thais (that voted) voted for them".

That doesn't change the result, but people need to be aware of that.

Edited July 6, 2011 by whybother

[whybother]

Yes it is time, and they have taken the first big step in doing so, by a real Democratic vote, not a manufactured vote that started most of Thailands hatred in the first place.

Are you talking about a manufactured vote in 2005 election?

Maybe you're talking about the manufactured vote in Thaksin's asset concealment case?

Or the manufactured vote in parliament when Thaksin changed laws so that he could sell his companies to the Singaporeans?

Because the problems didn't start with the Democrats getting into power in 2008, with the election in 2007, or even with the coup. They didn't even start with the 2006 election.

The problems started with the first "double standards" and with Thaksin enriching himself while he was PM.

[geriatrickid]

Well it seems to me that the PTP with its majority of seats has more of a mandate than the Democrats that never won a majority of seats.

Oh yes, I know, the Democrats cobbled together a coalition. Indeed, well now that the PTP has generously reached out to include some of these smaller parties, surely the nadirs of hate on this forum will be able to accept the legitimacy of a PTP government. After all, it is a majority of seats plus a coaliton. Talk about a strong mandate.

[whybother]

Well it seems to me that the PTP with its majority of seats has more of a mandate than the Democrats that never won a majority of seats.

Oh yes, I know, the Democrats cobbled together a coalition. Indeed, well now that the PTP has generously reached out to include some of these smaller parties, surely the nadirs of hate on this forum will be able to accept the legitimacy of a PTP government. After all, it is a majority of seats plus a coaliton. Talk about a strong mandate.

The PTP also has more of a mandate than the PPP (who cobbled together a coalition).

Does the fact that the PTP got the majority of seats mean that they can't be criticised?

Edited July 6, 2011 by whybother

[ccarbaugh]

A Thai friend of mine told me that the Thai's attitude is:

"It's O.K. to be corrupt - cheat, steal, etc, - just share with

me some of what you've got." :jap:

[Nisa]

Does the fact that the PTP got the majority of seats mean that they can't be criticised?

We'll have to wait an see for the answer to this

[metisdead]

A post flaming other members has been removed.