Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[473geo]

Here's where you may be wrong. Sure PTP will fail to some degree, either moderately or massively. That's a given as the promises they have made are basically both contradictory and impossible. Cut corporate taxes/a house for every Thai family, what are they smoking? But what happens AFTER that happens? Another relative fair election, or, as many fear/expect a situation where the Thaksin dynasty after being scorned so rudely, will now have "learned their lesson" and won't let go of power for perhaps many decades? In other words, how many people seriously believe Thaksin is about reconciliation, democracy, and no revenge?

Of course there is also the possibility that PT actually succeed in the majority of their aims and (unlike the Abhisit government) are voted in again at the next election, because of their delivery and performance.............they have been underestimated so many times I'm surprised that the usual critics are falling into the same old trap again.....

If they deliver on the minimum wage alone, that is something that wont be forgotten for years and will overshadow anything anyone else has ever done in the eyes of the poor

You sound as simple as the fiscal genii of PTP. 6 months later inflation will have put those still in work back to the same position, and the ones fired might even get their jobs back.

At least in 6 months they will be in the same situation........and not falling further behind......and they may just have a chance of a percentage annual increase to keep abreast of the CPI.Don't forget that tax breaks can be arranged to allow companies to absorb the increase in labour costs through a reduction in taxes.....hence no inflation caused by increased consumer costs

[Chang_paarp]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

In this case it does mean they have been banned from ALL political activity from 5 years. It is simply these folk think that the laws they vote into place do not apply to them.

Just waiting for the sip-archer party to get the same treatment.

It is funny the TRT/PPP/PTP folk have learned a couple of things;

• None of the party executive were standing for the election and will not get banned when the party is found to have broken the rules (TRT case)
• They registered a back-up party before the elections so when they get banned everyone can just swap parties with 30/60/90 (?) days notice. (Post PPP events)

It is a pity the EC does not have the ability/nous/internal fortitude to advise the parties that some of their actions are close to breaking the law, they may wish to review their actions. In other words give a warning at the start of the campaign rather that wait for a complaint at the completion of the election.

[473geo]

If they deliver on the minimum wage alone, that is something that wont be forgotten for years and will overshadow anything anyone else has ever done in the eyes of the poor

Again, totally naive. Raise the minimum wage too quickly, too much (which is their promise) then pretty much guaranteed you get higher unemployment (which some feel) and higher inflation (which the poor feel more severely than any other group). You see the labor force in Thailand is a very low productivity workforce so the economic fundamentals to justify much of a wage hike for the unskilled simply doesn't exist. So if the poor feel just as poor or even worse, do you think they are so stupid not to realize they weren't helped? Maybe so. But that is only one of many promises.

Doesn't appear to affect unions in other parts of the world being naive enough to negotiate wage rises........perhaps somebody should explain the needless effort they are making and alleviate the disruption they cause.....

As a former union representative, I can assure you that the old days of CPI increases are long gone. Now, if you want a pay rise you have to justify it with increases in productivity. In the electricity generation industry this has led to de-manning on a massive scale.

Over populated, under worked industry......

[OzMick]

In my view, since Thaksins actions were well known and the people still voted for it then it is not in the public interest to prosecute.

So in the future, any politician who gets banned, knows that providing they can win the vote, they are free to ignore the ban?

He didn't win the vote, the party did.I would even go so far as to say yes, if the people want him in then in the public interest he should not be prosecuted.

Wow! with that attitude we could have had Ned Kelly for a PM - not that Ned ever stole anything like Thaksin's booty.

[rubl]

Doesn't appear to affect unions in other parts of the world being naive enough to negotiate wage rises........perhaps somebody should explain the needless effort they are making and alleviate the disruption they cause.....

As a former union representative, I can assure you that the old days of CPI increases are long gone. Now, if you want a pay rise you have to justify it with increases in productivity. In the electricity generation industry this has led to de-manning on a massive scale.

Over populated, under worked industry......

Over populated, under worked. Sounds like a lot of industries in Thailand I've read about. What to do, what to do ...

[Puccini]

The other newspaper has a newsflash that Ms. Yingluck said neither her older brother Thaksin nor any of the 111 banned TRT executives had been involved in her party. She said Pheu Thai had working teams to sort out policies to settle pressing problems.

The flash didn't mention whether Ms. Yingluck was smiling or not, grave omission IMHO

I saw mention of it here: www.ethailand.com/news/yingluck-denies-thaksin-s-involvement-176394.html

Everything is OK then, seeing that no banned politician was involved in the PTP. There should be a law against so many people impersonating banned politicians. I am sure a lot of voters got fooled and thought they were genuine.

[FarangBuddha]

Poor loosers!

[dmcguire70]

Is it just me or is the post election bickering/analysis becoming a bit tiresome and boring?

I might start a new thread about Thai bar girls or something.

Edited July 9, 2011 by dmcguire70

[rixalex]

It is a pity the EC does not have the ability/nous/internal fortitude to advise the parties that some of their actions are close to breaking the law, they may wish to review their actions. In other words give a warning at the start of the campaign rather that wait for a complaint at the completion of the election.

Absolutely. And now, because of this lack of ability/nous/internal fortitude, the Dems are left with the dirty job of bringing this matter to the table, and they will be the ones made the villain by some. A diversionary tactic by those who do, attempting to get us all to forget that had the PTP simply followed the law, we wouldn't have to discuss any of this.

[OzMick]

If they deliver on the minimum wage alone, that is something that wont be forgotten for years and will overshadow anything anyone else has ever done in the eyes of the poor

You sound as simple as the fiscal genii of PTP. 6 months later inflation will have put those still in work back to the same position, and the ones fired might even get their jobs back.

At least in 6 months they will be in the same situation........and not falling further behind......and they may just have a chance of a percentage annual increase to keep abreast of the CPI.Don't forget that tax breaks can be arranged to allow companies to absorb the increase in labour costs through a reduction in taxes.....hence no inflation caused by increased consumer costs

you misunderstood - in 6 months they will be back in the same position as before the pay rise. Many employers don't pay any tax, what do you think that they will do when the cost of production goes up? And PTP's tax cuts are a campaign promise likely to evaporate because the country can't afford them (and them includes ALL their campaign promises.)

[473geo]

It is a pity the EC does not have the ability/nous/internal fortitude to advise the parties that some of their actions are close to breaking the law, they may wish to review their actions. In other words give a warning at the start of the campaign rather that wait for a complaint at the completion of the election.

Absolutely. And now, because of this lack of ability/nous/internal fortitude, the Dems are left with the dirty job of bringing this matter to the table, and they will be the ones made the villain by some. A diversionary tactic by those who do, attempting to get us all to forget that had the PTP simply followed the law, we wouldn't have to discuss any of this.

Maybe clever move by PTP....this way they are challenged legally...remain in power legally.......and no coup........prevented by throwing straws for the opposition to clutch at

[Chupup]

What a morons. The democrat party corrupted to the bone, getting off on a technicality wants a ban. Only for one single reason to ban Yingluck. I predict a civil war which will be won by the voters of Thailand, which will have no mercy with the Democrat leaders. In any case any party country or organization which bears the word "Democratic" in it, is often authoritarian and has nothing to do with democracy.

You sound like you are reading from one of Thaksin's speeches which makes no sence attall, of course if you go back to when Thaksin was pm then the word DEMOCRATIC woul be just as you say in your post

:jap:

[rubl]

I read many questioning the timing of the Dem's request to the EC. Be that as it may, but the Dem's did raise the issue before. Unknown if it was followed up, or simply forgotten once pre-election time got into full swing:

"Posted 2011-04-08 15:45:12

Thaksin accused of being alien in Thai politics

The Election Commission should open an inquiry into the involvement of fugitive Montenegrin Thaksin Shinawatra with the Pheu Thai Party, Democrat MP Boonyod Suktinthai said on Friday.

"Thaksin's involvement might have violated Article 21 of the Political Parties Act banning an alien from intefering with Thai politics," he said."

[OzMick]

As a former union representative, I can assure you that the old days of CPI increases are long gone. Now, if you want a pay rise you have to justify it with increases in productivity. In the electricity generation industry this has led to de-manning on a massive scale.

Over populated, under worked industry......

That may be your opinion. Not long before I left we had an turbine lube-oil fire on a 660MW unit. On a 4 unit station, we did not have enough men to form a fire team, and had to wait for Fire Brigade assistance from the nearest town, nearly 39km away - and the Firies were NOT happy, if not actually scared shitless. Substantial damage resulted with the unit out of service for weeks, but all covered by insurance. Until the insurance was refused on the basis that the premium was calculated on the station having its own fire crew.

You might also want to consider what it would be like freezing in the dark.

[OzMick]

double post

Edited July 9, 2011 by OzMick

[rixalex]

Poor loosers!

Next time i get spotted in the undergrowth, hacking about, giving myself some free extra mulligans, i'll be sure then to tell my opponent to bog off and stop being such a poor loser.

[473geo]

If they deliver on the minimum wage alone, that is something that wont be forgotten for years and will overshadow anything anyone else has ever done in the eyes of the poor

You sound as simple as the fiscal genii of PTP. 6 months later inflation will have put those still in work back to the same position, and the ones fired might even get their jobs back.

At least in 6 months they will be in the same situation........and not falling further behind......and they may just have a chance of a percentage annual increase to keep abreast of the CPI.Don't forget that tax breaks can be arranged to allow companies to absorb the increase in labour costs through a reduction in taxes.....hence no inflation caused by increased consumer costs

you misunderstood - in 6 months they will be back in the same position as before the pay rise. Many employers don't pay any tax, what do you think that they will do when the cost of production goes up? And PTP's tax cuts are a campaign promise likely to evaporate because the country can't afford them (and them includes ALL their campaign promises.)

Company profits are taxed I believe, wages are offset as a cost against profit, assuming companies are making a profit there is room for tax breaks, if they are not making a profit....I would expect the employees to be shortly out of work. If you evaluate the situation sensibly major global corporates might see tax breaks as an incentive to relocate some part or further part of their operation to Thailand.

[473geo]

As a former union representative, I can assure you that the old days of CPI increases are long gone. Now, if you want a pay rise you have to justify it with increases in productivity. In the electricity generation industry this has led to de-manning on a massive scale.

Over populated, under worked industry......

That may be your opinion. Not long before I left we had an turbine lube-oil fire on a 660MW unit. On a 4 unit station, we did not have enough men to form a fire team, and had to wait for Fire Brigade assistance from the nearest town, nearly 39km away - and the Firies were NOT happy, if not actually scared shitless. Substantial damage resulted with the unit out of service for weeks, but all covered by insurance. Until the insurance was refused on the basis that the premium was calculated on the station having its own fire crew.

You might also want to consider what it would be like freezing in the dark.

and poor allocation of current resource

[Puccini]

I think it would be a good idea to look at the list of names of the 111 banned politicians. Does anybody have a link to it? It would be helpful in searching the web for things they were quoted as saying in recent months, to reassure ourselves that nothing they said can possibly be construed as involvement in politics. Somebody might even want to start a blog with a collection of all these quotes. Isn't there a member here on ThaiVisa, Beechwood or something like that, who seems to remember everything any Thai politician of note has said over the past five years? He could refresh our memories.

[Scout666]

The other newspaper has a newsflash that Ms. Yingluck said neither her older brother Thaksin nor any of the 111 banned TRT executives had been involved in her party. She said Pheu Thai had working teams to sort out policies to settle pressing problems.

The flash didn't mention whether Ms. Yingluck was smiling or not, grave omission IMHO

I saw mention of it here: www.ethailand.com/news/yingluck-denies-thaksin-s-involvement-176394.html

Everything is OK then, seeing that no banned politician was involved in the PTP. There should be a law against so many people impersonating banned politicians. I am sure a lot of voters got fooled and thought they were genuine.

Just finished reading/catching up on this thread and I have to say that this comment made it all worthwhile. Thanks Puccini

[OzMick]

I have a strange suspicion that Thaksin's involvement was a deliberate ploy - to have PTP de-registered without actually changing the outcome of the election. This allows him to spread further disinformation in Isaan of how unfair this was (working on TVF!) further radicalising his supporters and sowing even more distrust in the court system.

Other actions, such as including red leaders in the PTP party list where they were assured of election are further evidence that he is not seeking reconciliation but widening the gap, increasing the NE sense of grievance. Any attempt to prevent PTP granting him amnesty could then spark wholesale violence.

And if you want to change from constitutional monarchy to dictatorship, you need a revolution.

[ratcatcher]

Yingluck denies Thaksin's involvement

is like saying

The Pope is not involved in the Roman Catholic Church.

Edited July 9, 2011 by ratcatcher

[gregb]

Deleted.

Edited July 9, 2011 by gregb

[Scout666]

Interesting theory. Not beyond the bounds of realism.

I have a strange suspicion that Thaksin's involvement was a deliberate ploy - to have PTP de-registered without actually changing the outcome of the election. This allows him to spread further disinformation in Isaan of how unfair this was (working on TVF!) further radicalising his supporters and sowing even more distrust in the court system.

Other actions, such as including red leaders in the PTP party list where they were assured of election are further evidence that he is not seeking reconciliation but widening the gap, increasing the NE sense of grievance. Any attempt to prevent PTP granting him amnesty could then spark wholesale violence.

And if you want to change from constitutional monarchy to dictatorship, you need a revolution.

[rubl]

I think it would be a good idea to look at the list of names of the 111 banned politicians. Does anybody have a link to it? It would be helpful in searching the web for things they were quoted as saying in recent months, to reassure ourselves that nothing they said can possibly be construed as involvement in politics. Somebody might even want to start a blog with a collection of all these quotes. Isn't there a member here on ThaiVisa, Beechwood or something like that, who seems to remember everything any Thai politician of note has said over the past five years? He could refresh our memories.

A bit older list, but should do for now

2007-11-15

What are the 111 TRT executive members up to?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/ourvote2007/contentdetail.php?id=229

[OzMick]

You sound as simple as the fiscal genii of PTP. 6 months later inflation will have put those still in work back to the same position, and the ones fired might even get their jobs back.

At least in 6 months they will be in the same situation........and not falling further behind......and they may just have a chance of a percentage annual increase to keep abreast of the CPI.Don't forget that tax breaks can be arranged to allow companies to absorb the increase in labour costs through a reduction in taxes.....hence no inflation caused by increased consumer costs

you misunderstood - in 6 months they will be back in the same position as before the pay rise. Many employers don't pay any tax, what do you think that they will do when the cost of production goes up? And PTP's tax cuts are a campaign promise likely to evaporate because the country can't afford them (and them includes ALL their campaign promises.)

Company profits are taxed I believe, wages are offset as a cost against profit, assuming companies are making a profit there is room for tax breaks, if they are not making a profit....I would expect the employees to be shortly out of work. If you evaluate the situation sensibly major global corporates might see tax breaks as an incentive to relocate some part or further part of their operation to Thailand.

Company profits are taxed, but not every employer is a company. Small scale employers will not be paying ANY tax. ASSUMING there is sufficient tax break to cover wage increases is not very smart, or do you think that employers will voluntarily take a cut in profit margin because their employees get a wage rise (how altruistic). And now companies are going to relocate here because a tax break might offset rapidly rising wages?

Have you been taking economics lessons from Olarn?

[thaivisitorTeeVee]

And if you want to change from constitutional monarchy to dictatorship, you need a revolution.

I think you meant to say a democratic republic

[gregb]

And if you want to change from constitutional monarchy to dictatorship, you need a revolution.

I think you meant to say a democratic republic

No. He was speaking about Thaksin. He meant dictatorship.

[OzMick]

And if you want to change from constitutional monarchy to dictatorship, you need a revolution.

I think you meant to say a democratic republic

You think WRONG. You also might want to factor in the timing in your calculations.

[whybother]

<snip>

Maestro ... <snip>

Edited July 9, 2011 by soundman
Fixed. :)