Racism

[twix38]

There are a few long running examples of Thai racism to foreigners in law and in personal experience.

I'd like to know what people think about it?

My view is we should adopt workable policies in our own home countries to address and target outright racism which is endemic here and when applied to us consistently abroad.

Let me give just one current example.

You can pick up a King's Cup Asian Pattaya Marathon leaflet (at Central) for this coming weekend's Marathon on Sunday 17th July. There is a full Marathon, Half Marathon and Quarter Marathon.

Two points

1. the prices to enter are over 100% more expensive for foreigners.

Full Marathon - Foreigner 1,080: Asian 500

Half Marathon - Foreigner 900: Asian 400

Quarter Marathon - Foreigner 720: Asian 300

This is normal for Thailand and known as dual pricing.

For countries who apply this I think we should reciprocate in some manner. Just treat us fairly and we will do the same.

2. more importantly though, it's compounded by condition number 1 on the leaflet which states...

"Cash reward in overall age group rewards presented to Thai and Asian nationality only"

So in this instance we can pay more than double to enter and be excluded from the overall age group rewards if a Foreigner were to win.

To me it's abhorrent that this type of racism should exist without addressing it. This is Thailand, so they can do what they like here and we have to accept it or leave, but our home countries could start to charge/penalise Thai's in a similar manner or perhaps find a workable response to this sort of victimisation and racism.

Where there's a will there's a way. Possibly addressing Thai student and tourist visa fees when not supported by a home country national - clearly if sponsored then it's the foreigner who gets penalised and who pays anyway, but if not sponsored then stuff them, as just loosing Thai nationals wouldn't have a significant effect and would send a message that the on-going and escalating xenophobia here is becoming totally unacceptable!!!

I'm sure there's a more appropriate response to this issue, but some response is warranted imho and rather overdue.

Do we just accept it and watch it grow because that's what it seems to be doing year on year and we do nothing in our home countries to show the Thais that it's unacceptable or what it feels like when a group is identified, singled out and taken advantage of in this way. This Marathon leaflet would not be seen in my country because it would be deemed offensive, racist and illegal and doesn't every foreigner object to paying more than double to enter whilst being excluded from at least a proportion of the potential prize money which is reserved for an Asian winner even if he/she didn't win!!!!

Edited July 13, 2011 by twix38

[Atmos]

another dual pricing whine . . . maybe this could be added to all the others?

You could of course not compete - that would really teach them a lesson!

I have competed outside my home country where some prizes and titles were for nationals of that country only; equally I have competed at 'home' in events where foreigners could participate, but were ineligible for national titles/prizes.

If it is stated on the entry form - what is the problem?

It is hardly 'outright racism'. And I doubt very much any country's law would support your claim of "offensive, racist and illegal".

If a sponsor puts up money/prizes for local people, then that's who they are for - the sponsor may believe they are 1 supporting the local athletes, and 2 improving their local customer base/good advertising.

I competed in a Phuket event where many of the prizes were from local hotels eg three nights accomm and meals; several of these were won by people on holiday who could not use these vouchers and they graciously donated the prizes back to the club, vouchers were auctioned by the club as a fundraiser.

Sorry if the extra 500b or whatever breaks the bank.

Having flown internationally to compete, along with hotel costs, the entry fees were the least concern cost-wise.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Atmos

[dean999]

I'm not racised......... i hate everyone.

[NALAK]

hacks me off big style i can go to same shope with wife and buy something go back on my own and its more. i buy everthing i can off e bay and sod the locals who rip me off, its usually cheaper and quite often no tax. no price tag or scan gun i walk away ot use big supermarlets.

[hehehoho]

Racism Does it get to you?

Yes.

I wish I had the marathon ability of a West African.

Edited July 13, 2011 by hehehoho

[londoedan]

My opinion on dual pricing is that it does not qualify as racism as such, rather it is based on the assumption that foreigners that visit Thailand, and other SE Asian countries, are, on average, more wealthy than the indigenous population. I consider it a variety of the "from each according to their means" philosophy rather than racism. When I visited Borodur temple in Indonesia I think I paid 4-5 times what the locals pay. Fair enough I reckon.

Simon

[hehehoho]

our home countries could start to charge/penalise Thai's in a similar manner

Sounds mature.

Perhaps they should stop giving them 30 days on arrival whenever they want a holiday there.

Oh.

[jdinasia]

In answer to the OP's question .... No

[Jingthing]

In this case, yes racism, no doubt. It's the part about the ASIANS, not the Thai part. If only differential for Thais, one can defend with the BS arguments, it's just a discount for Thais!, it's nationalism!, it's a socialist sentiment!, yadda yadda yadda.

Add the ASIAN part and that all goes out the window. Asian? Japanese, Singaporean? So poor. They can't afford the higher price. Asian? Burmese. So rich! They don't deserve the prize if they win. This can't be argued. It smells and stop trying to make excuses for it

[RusticCharm]

If it is stated on the entry form - what is the problem?

It is hardly 'outright racism'. And I doubt very much any country's law would support your claim of "offensive, racist and illegal".

I disagree.

It appears that racism is fine as long as it targets whites. And many liberal, left-wing whites seem to encourage that type of thinking.

How about the London Marathon offering prizes to Brits only? Just watch the uproar.

My opinion on dual pricing is that it does not qualify as racism as such, rather it is based on the assumption that foreigners that visit Thailand, and other SE Asian countries, are, on average, more wealthy than the indigenous population. I consider it a variety of the "from each according to their means" philosophy rather than racism. When I visited Borodur temple in Indonesia I think I paid 4-5 times what the locals pay. Fair enough I reckon.

Simon

Judging someone on their skin color or ethnicity is racism pure and simple. You can dress it up anyway you like and be an apologist for developing countries racism if you wish. Backward thinking!

"From each according to their means", eh? So you'd be happy paying double price when say, one of the Shinawatra kids pays the normal 'Thai' price? Amazing!

In this case, yes racism, no doubt. It's the part about the ASIANS, not the Thai part. If only differential for Thais, one can defend with the BS arguments, it's just a discount for Thais!, it's nationalism!, it's a socialist sentiment!, yadda yadda yadda.

Add the ASIAN part and that all goes out the window. Asian? Japanese, Singaporean? So poor. They can't afford the higher price. Asian? Burmese. So rich! They don't deserve the prize if they win. This can't be argued. It smells and stop trying to make excuses for it

Finally! A sensible post. :jap: Edited July 13, 2011 by RusticCharm

[londoedan]

Judging someone on their skin color or ethnicity is racism pure and simple. You can dress it up anyway you like and be an apologist for developing countries racism if you wish. Backward thinking!

"From each according to their means", eh? So you'd be happy paying double price when say, one of the Shinawatra kids pays the normal 'Thai' price? Amazing!

As I originally stated, the double pricing policy is based on an assumption, that is probably correct, for the vast majority of cases. There will always be exceptions.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over paying a dollar or 2 more than people who eke out a living on a tiny fraction of my salary.

Simon

[Scabo]

Well put Rustic.

I have/had been training for the half marathon this Sunday.

Early in the month I went down to pick up an application form.

After I read the application form and question the part on Asian's

I got a "no reply" from the Thai kid down at Central. I could see he

was a little embarrassed so I did'nt push the point.

I have no problems with the Thai pricing system. Their country their rules..

But to widen that group to Asian's really got my back up.

I thought the best means of protest would be not to enter. Stuff them!!

[PattayaParent]

My opinion on dual pricing is that it does not qualify as racism as such, rather it is based on the assumption that foreigners that visit Thailand, and other SE Asian countries, are, on average, more wealthy than the indigenous population. I consider it a variety of the "from each according to their means" philosophy rather than racism. When I visited Borodur temple in Indonesia I think I paid 4-5 times what the locals pay. Fair enough I reckon.

Simon

So when you rock up to register at the marathon tell them you're Thai, how will they know you're not Thai??

Oh, by the colour of your skin and your facial features = Racism.

If it was economic discrimination then they would for example charge Thaksin more to enter the marathon than you because he is wealthier?

Oops, I see RusticCharm already made the same point.

Edited July 13, 2011 by PattayaParent

[PattayaParent]

Well put Rustic.

I have/had been training for the half marathon this Sunday.

Early in the month I went down to pick up an application form.

After I read the application form and question the part on Asian's

I got a "no reply" from the Thai kid down at Central. I could see he

was a little embarrassed so I did'nt push the point.

I have no problems with the Thai pricing system. Their country their rules..

But to widen that group to Asian's really got my back up.

I thought the best means of protest would be not to enter. Stuff them!!

The best means of protest would be to run it anyway but as a non-entrant.

[Darrel]

It is hardly 'outright racism'. And I doubt very much any country's law would support your claim of "offensive, racist and illegal".

I think you would find that the organisers of any sporting event in Europe issuing rules that allow for doubling the entry fee for asians would be in court on racism charges faster than you can blink.

[morphic]

Well put Rustic.

I have/had been training for the half marathon this Sunday.

Early in the month I went down to pick up an application form.

After I read the application form and question the part on Asian's

I got a "no reply" from the Thai kid down at Central. I could see he

was a little embarrassed so I did'nt push the point.

I have no problems with the Thai pricing system. Their country their rules..

But to widen that group to Asian's really got my back up.

I thought the best means of protest would be not to enter. Stuff them!!

im in asia to 1. work and make money (not thailand) and 2. enjoy the weather, girls, food (thailand)

racism is asia wide, i find there is a strong underlying and over arching anti-white bias in many asian countries (as well as a genberal xenophobia, asian hating other asian, asian hating african etc). but i was never under the impression the region was culturally or intellectually advanced, quite the opposite, it is in fact often hypocritical, primitive, racist, nasty, greedy and stupid.

but, i find myself happier if i focus on the positives and not dwell on the negatives. so, i hate the raciscm but i try to not let it get to me.

in the case of the marathon don't do it. in fact, it is better to always try to play on a level playing field and give everything else, where possible, a wide berth.

The best means of protest would be to run it anyway but as a non-entrant.

what may be sensible would be to write to the organsisers, explain their racism is nothinmg but disgusting and that you will niot be participating. yes, they wont care, but you'll have made a point. a letter ot two to the Western meadis would also be worthwhile, i imagine even the Daily Mail would be interested as this Asian vs "foreign" thing is quite blatant and i nthink a lot of people are getting sick and tired of being the hypocricy and racism of Asia.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Well put Rustic.

I have/had been training for the half marathon this Sunday.

Early in the month I went down to pick up an application form.

After I read the application form and question the part on Asian's

I got a "no reply" from the Thai kid down at Central. I could see he

was a little embarrassed so I did'nt push the point.

I have no problems with the Thai pricing system. Their country their rules..

But to widen that group to Asian's really got my back up.

I thought the best means of protest would be not to enter. Stuff them!!

im in asia to 1. work and make money (not thailand) and 2. enjoy the weather, girls, food (thailand)

racism is asia wide, i find there is a strong underlying and over arching anti-white bias in many asian countries (as well as a genberal xenophobia, asian hating other asian, asian hating african etc). but i was never under the impression the region was culturally or intellectually advanced, quite the opposite, it is in fact often hypocritical, primitive, racist, nasty, greedy and stupid.

but, i find myself happier if i focus on the positives and not dwell on the negatives. so, i hate the raciscm but i try to not let it get to me.

in the case of the marathon don't do it. in fact, it is better to always try to play on a level playing field and give everything else, where possible, a wide berth.

The best means of protest would be to run it anyway but as a non-entrant.

what may be sensible would be to write to the organsisers, explain their racism is nothinmg but disgusting and that you will niot be participating. yes, they wont care, but you'll have made a point. a letter ot two to the Western meadis would also be worthwhile, i imagine even the Daily Mail would be interested as this Asian vs "foreign" thing is quite blatant and i nthink a lot of people are getting sick and tired of being the hypocricy and racism of Asia.

Racism and xenophobia are rampant in Thailand and have been growing, especially over the past ten years (newbies have no idea what I am talking about). Yes, it "gets to me" and that is one major reason I no longer have a desire to retire in Thailand. I am certain the situation will only get worse in the future.

[Jingthing]

Yes, the racism/xenophobia is very real. As far as it "getting to me" I have found ways of minimizing this by total AVOIDANCE of situations where it is in your face. Not always possible, but you certainly can take steps to reduce it. I know some foreigners celebrate this (isn't it ever so charming?) and are always quick to enthusiastically DEFEND Thai racism/xenophobia as a wonderful expression of not-PC. I think this view is totally cracked, but to each his own.

Generally there is usually little to gain by trying to "teach" Thais the error of their racist ways. However, in the case of this marathon, I could see voicing the RACISM objection upon seeing the brochure and rudely pushing it back on the table. Is not their policy very rude in itself? Men or mice, are we?

Be clear I am not one to label EVERY example of double pricing as racism. For example, the Thai national park pricing can indeed be justified based on taxation and sheer nationalism (which can be a nasty thing in itself but not technically the same thing as racism).

BTW, I am sure some will accuse me of arrogant imperialist tendencies. Nope, not at all. Some values are universal. Just as "too salty" is an internationally understood culinary error, so is blatant racism simply wrong, as is murder. Not buying the cultural relativism on this. That works for many things, but not racism.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I see the Sonteaw drivers in Chiang Mai over-charging Bangkok Thais and hilltribe people all the time, while I am riding for the official rate. It is not racism, it is dishonesty when the opportunity presents itself.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

I see the Sonteaw drivers in Chiang Mai over-charging Bangkok Thais and hilltribe people all the time, while I am riding for the official rate. It is not racism, it is dishonesty when the opportunity presents itself.

I think you could be right. So back to topic, can you defend the Asians only win the prize money policy? I wonder how their ASIAN preference policy on pricing and prizes would be applied to a third generation Japanese American.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[twix38]

Most people seem to see it for what it is - racism out in plain sight and proud of it! - prize only for the Asian competitors. lol

It's clearly not just the double pricing issue, as I stated. That's just a core foundation of a widespread and practiced ethos which can occasionally be argued has some basis or isn't a racist issue. It just rubs it in that we paid double AND don't qualify for the prize if we win. We qualify to greatly assist to provide for this particular Asian prize money only!!

My question is really two fold

what do you think of racist behaviour here (in general) and what could/should be done?

Personally, I think it's past the time our home countries should make a stand and treat Thais likewise - an eye for an eye so to speak.

This is because it is widespread, frequent, obvious, consistent and when an injustice is endemic it's not a good idea to ignore it. It just increases and gets worse, as evidenced over the years and by common sense.

A bit like China will stop doing wrong things in trade, often ONLY when they are taken to the WTO and forced to.

So should we name, shame and force by implementing measures ourselves to stop this type of racist behaviour being so FREELY exhibited and left unchallenged.

We should see it for what it is, acknowledge the pervasiveness of the issue here in Thailand that's increasing and flag it to our local MP's in our home countries to seek to start to redress an inequality of rights for foreign citizens here which we afford Asians(Thais) who come to our country.

This evident on many instances throughout Thai society and not just Marathons, of course. lol

Perhaps we should all ask the Pattaya Mayor if he understands what a racist is and then why it's official policy? This Marathon must be authorised by Pattaya City and i'm sure he will be there to fire the starting gun and/or hand out the prizes.

Edited July 13, 2011 by twix38

[morphic]

Well put Rustic.

I have/had been training for the half marathon this Sunday.

Early in the month I went down to pick up an application form.

After I read the application form and question the part on Asian's

I got a "no reply" from the Thai kid down at Central. I could see he

was a little embarrassed so I did'nt push the point.

I have no problems with the Thai pricing system. Their country their rules..

But to widen that group to Asian's really got my back up.

I thought the best means of protest would be not to enter. Stuff them!!

im in asia to 1. work and make money (not thailand) and 2. enjoy the weather, girls, food (thailand)

racism is asia wide, i find there is a strong underlying and over arching anti-white bias in many asian countries (as well as a genberal xenophobia, asian hating other asian, asian hating african etc). but i was never under the impression the region was culturally or intellectually advanced, quite the opposite, it is in fact often hypocritical, primitive, racist, nasty, greedy and stupid.

but, i find myself happier if i focus on the positives and not dwell on the negatives. so, i hate the raciscm but i try to not let it get to me.

in the case of the marathon don't do it. in fact, it is better to always try to play on a level playing field and give everything else, where possible, a wide berth.

The best means of protest would be to run it anyway but as a non-entrant.

what may be sensible would be to write to the organsisers, explain their racism is nothinmg but disgusting and that you will niot be participating. yes, they wont care, but you'll have made a point. a letter ot two to the Western meadis would also be worthwhile, i imagine even the Daily Mail would be interested as this Asian vs "foreign" thing is quite blatant and i nthink a lot of people are getting sick and tired of being the hypocricy and racism of Asia.

Racism and xenophobia are rampant in Thailand and have been growing, especially over the past ten years (newbies have no idea what I am talking about). Yes, it "gets to me" and that is one major reason I no longer have a desire to retire in Thailand. I am certain the situation will only get worse in the future.

Trapped between a rock and a hard placed then. The problems of racism and xenophobia seem Asia wide, even in Singapore in its own beneath the surface ways. So if not Thailand then where? Back home is boring but PC, Asia is racist and backward but it has many benefits that we all know about, we need to compromise.

[Richb2004v2]

Last year I voiced my feelings about this whilst signing up for it. I didn't even get a response. Would it actually be possible to do the run without paying? I think it probably would. I don't really want another big gold medal and a crappy T-shirt anyway.

[Orac]

Surely for our home countries to treat asians/thais accordingly they would have to let them in first???

Edited July 13, 2011 by Orac

[Ulysses G.]

I see the Sonteaw drivers in Chiang Mai over-charging Bangkok Thais and hilltribe people all the time, while I am riding for the official rate. It is not racism, it is dishonesty when the opportunity presents itself.

I think you could be right. So back to topic, can you defend the Asians only win the prize money policy? I wonder how their ASIAN preference policy on pricing and prizes would be applied to a third generation Japanese American.

The topic is racism . The prize was just one example.

There are a few long running examples of Thai racism to foreigners in law and in personal experience.

I'd like to know what people think about it?

Edited July 13, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[elwood]

When people on TV slag off Russians, Arabs, Indians, Japs, is that also racism?

[twix38]

Surely for our home countries to treat asians/thais accordingly they would have to let them in first???

I just suggest some form of addressing the situation has surely arrived, finally?

I also suspect as stated - which was just an off the cuff suggestion - that non sponsored Student and Tourist visa applications might be one area to send a message. It would hit the wealthier Thais who have the power in Thailand and have the ability to send kids on student visas etc. Just the type who need to be targetted, though small in number.

Otherwise, I am certain there are many areas where an appropriate response could be mustered and perhaps on an EU wide basis, as it's all foreigners.

"Last year I voiced my feelings about this whilst signing up for it. I didn't even get a response"

Well, that's because 75%+ of Thais are racist, bourne out of nationalism and poor education.

You don't get a reply because they don't like to tell you what they really think and what they know you will not like to hear. Most have absolutely no problem with it and in the majority of cases fully subscribe. The other 25% would go even further. Shhhhh

Edited July 13, 2011 by twix38

[hehehoho]

75%+ of Thais are racist, bourne out of nationalism and poor education.

You don't get a reply because they don't like to tell you what they really think and what they know you will not like to hear. Most have absolutely no problem with it and in the majority of cases fully subscribe. The other 25% would go even further. Shhhhh

Jezuuuuz. Why do us Westerners live here at all?

[twix38]

75%+ of Thais are racist, bourne out of nationalism and poor education.

You don't get a reply because they don't like to tell you what they really think and what they know you will not like to hear. Most have absolutely no problem with it and in the majority of cases fully subscribe. The other 25% would go even further. Shhhhh

Jezuuuuz. Why do us Westerners live here at all?

The girls (boys for some)

The weather

It's cheaper

I do think as power and money moves from west to east and living here becomes more expensive with benefits less obvious that in time Thailand will not be the magnet for the variety of expat life that currently resides here and we will no longer come here - pun intended - to retire ;-)

I think I have told it as it is. We like it here for other reasons of which I have perhaps given the top 3.

NOT for the unlevel playing field we operate in, the double pricing, the nationlistic/racist society attitudes or the teenage gun crime and crime in general.

Edited July 13, 2011 by twix38

[hehehoho]

lol.

Sorry, it wasn't a serious question.