Food, Cleanliness And Hygiene

[minbari73]

Having travelled to Thailand around 9 years ago and since married a Thai lady and have gone through (her) family problems, we are currently living in Oz with her Mother and i've noticed some things that occasionally annoy me when it comes to food handling. Obviously in Australia as in Thailand, we have refridgerators to keep things fresh and stave off bacteria etc, but she cannot grasp the idea of not leaving food out uncovered for many hours and overnight even with a fridge rather close at hand. Anything she does i just fob off as a "Thai thing" and accept it as such, but when it comes to my young son, bacterial infections are not something i want him to have. Right now, we're on holiday in Buriram at the wife's Aunties house and the same sort of thing is happening here (of course i stay shtum about most things here), but i can't help wondering about the cooked rice left out in the open for many days with flies buzzing around it. She's not one of the poorer people here, in fact she has a fridge and seems to supply the village with rice and has a few baht put away. I ask my wife about these things, but all i get is a shrug. I notice the flies buzzing around street vendors and its one of the reasons i refuse to eat from them, especially when it looks like flies have aleady landed and layed maggots within the food. If anyone out there can let me in on the mentality of Thais when it comes to food it'd be appreciated, i mean they seem to be otherwise clean people...again i'm not sure how this is possible bathing in green river water piped in from somewhere. I simply feel filthy after a cold shower here even after lathering up for 10 minutes!

[Forethat]

I have a background in microbiology and I still got access to the biggest publishers of research papers. Trust me, your concern is valid, Thailand has one of the highest rates of food poisoning in the world. Why? You're already providing some of the answers in your post. Irresponsible and uneducated fits the average Thai mother in this area.

Personally, if there was one thing I could tell Thais to stop doing, it'd be the disgusting habit of stuffing food in to the baby's mouth with their bare hands. It's a matter of education, which in this aspect they have none.

Keep your son safe, your awareness will take you longer than most Thais.

PS.

There are plenty of countries where the issues are as big as in Thailand, but since we are in Thailand I have to use Thailand and a baseline. This is not ranting against Thailand. I'm sorry if this come across as anything like that.

Edit: what the he** is wrong with my space key...

Edited July 19, 2011 by Forethat

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I have a background in microbiology and I still got access to the biggest publishers of research papers. Trust me, your concern is valid, Thailand has one of the highest rates of food poisoning in the world. Why? You're already providing some of the answers in your post. Irresponsible and uneducated fits the average Thai mother in this area.

Personally, if there was one thing I could tell Thais to stop doing, it'd be the disgusting habit of stuffing food in to the baby's mouth with their bare hands. It's a matter of education, which in this aspect they have none.

Keep your son safe, your awareness will take you longer than most Thais.

PS.

There are plenty of countries where the issues are as big as in Thailand, but since we are in Thailand I have to use Thailand and a baseline. This is not ranting against Thailand. I'm sorry if this come across as anything like that.

Edit: what the he** is wrong with my space key...

Thais have zero concept about proper food handling, hygiene......no idea what a bacteria is, etc. I have seen mothers watch their young children eat off the floor and do nothing about it. Then you have the "nose picking culture" of Thailand that makes foreigners sick and only spreads diseases. And the "blow my nose," make your food, and serve it to you culture. It is a wonder we (foreigners) are not sick all of the time. And you can't teach them what the developed world does or thinks about these matters. They have no respect for foreigners or foreign ways of doing things. One thing I have noticed is that the rural hospitals are full to the brim with people with bacterial infections. It is costing the country time and money.

[leo12345]

I work in the food industry in Thailand.

I am shocked and amazed in what I have seen, even in the best hotels.

With all the training there are nmany that actually follow when it comes to food hygeine and spoilage.

This is one reason as to why my position is available to me here.

[lovelomsak]

One thought that often passes my mind is,Thais donot use toilet paper so their hands and water are used to wash away excrepment from their bodies. These same hands then will prepare food at restaurants or in markets. I just get this weird feeling that cold water alone doesnot do an effective job in cleaning. And the way they handle the food with their hands so much makes me wonder. That all said I personnaly still havenot had a problem.Maybe all the time I spent in Mexico paid off.

[Boater]

same with raw meat and cooked meat ... i hav never seen a place with 3 sepeate chopping boards as an example..

i get wierd looks from the missis if i cut uncooked chicken and put the knife and plate to be washed, ' why you not use again '

also the leaving of the food out is a very wide common thing here and happens everywhere... similar with markets , they will cook the food hours before they serve it up...

but its about education, in the UK you are Taught about food hygine in school and at home, here i dont think they do

also , there isnt a Food Standard Agency that regulary checks each place that sold food here,

[minbari73]

I have a background in microbiology and I still got access to the biggest publishers of research papers. Trust me, your concern is valid, Thailand has one of the highest rates of food poisoning in the world. Why? You're already providing some of the answers in your post. Irresponsible and uneducated fits the average Thai mother in this area.

Personally, if there was one thing I could tell Thais to stop doing, it'd be the disgusting habit of stuffing food in to the baby's mouth with their bare hands. It's a matter of education, which in this aspect they have none.

Keep your son safe, your awareness will take you longer than most Thais.

PS.

There are plenty of countries where the issues are as big as in Thailand, but since we are in Thailand I have to use Thailand and a baseline. This is not ranting against Thailand. I'm sorry if this come across as anything like that.

Edit: what the he** is wrong with my space key...

thanks for the replies everyone.

Would there be an element of buildup of immunity over the years with the "feeding baby with the bare hands" thing? The old "let the kid play in the dirt" adage comes to mind. Could the cleaner you are the more susceptible you would be to disease, which is why most Thais aren't dead soon after birth?

--

What annoys me the most though, when it comes to the mother in law living with us, is her abject refusal to see that things are clearly better. Access to hot clean water would surely come as a godsend (strange for an atheist to say:) as it does my wife, but no..the old bird continues to shower by a cold trickle (she's 56) continues to wash clothing in a cold bucket and then hang to drip dry despite access to a washing machine/dryer and soap, softener etc..the lack of mosquitoes, centipedes, animals with free access to the living room, rain coming in the walls still doesn't seem to make her happy 75% of the time. It's as though she is stuck mentally in the 1950's - we've even set up thai satellite television for her and she watches it with a gloomy attitude. Well it seems that way to me!

[bkkjames]

Yea the thais in europe should be yelled at for the recent major outbreak of e-coli was it that killed a bunch of people recently and sickened countless others.

[h90]

same with raw meat and cooked meat ... i hav never seen a place with 3 sepeate chopping boards as an example..

i get wierd looks from the missis if i cut uncooked chicken and put the knife and plate to be washed, ' why you not use again '

also the leaving of the food out is a very wide common thing here and happens everywhere... similar with markets , they will cook the food hours before they serve it up...

but its about education, in the UK you are Taught about food hygine in school and at home, here i dont think they do

also , there isnt a Food Standard Agency that regulary checks each place that sold food here,

I saw several times:

cutting the chicken to fry it.

clean the chopping board and knife with the same towel for weeks, which is more guarantee the infection than cleaning anything.

than cutting the vegetables which don't get cooked.

[Nam Plah]

The refrigerator seems to be an invention that still hasn't completely caught on in the Kingdom.

Then there's this:

In Thailand, Love of Food Carries Deadly Risks

http://www.nytimes.c...t-thailand.html

I'd definitely steer clear of the fermented fish.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Nam Plah

[Travel2003]

One thought that often passes my mind is,Thais donot use toilet paper so their hands and water are used to wash away excrepment from their bodies. These same hands then will prepare food at restaurants or in markets. I just get this weird feeling that cold water alone doesnot do an effective job in cleaning. And the way they handle the food with their hands so much makes me wonder. That all said I personnaly still havenot had a problem.Maybe all the time I spent in Mexico paid off.

You should try to stop that though for a few seconds.

Although I 100% agree that food hygiene is a major problem here, we can not just say that Thais do not use toilet paper and leave the toilets with excrements on their hands.

This would be the same as the old stupid stereotype about a certain group of people that use their fingers to wipe their asses, and write the number 1111 on the walls after.

Trust me, even though you dont know me, my wife and her family do indeed wash their hands after toilet visits.

[WebBangkok]

Thailand apparently has less food poisoning cases per capita than the US.

[Travel2003]

I have only known my wife for 8 years.

She has never had a flue or been sick during the time I have been home from work.

She has caught a cold a few times.

She claims she never have been sick, and she is 37.

Might not be 100% correct, but not as long as we have been together.

She leaves most of the food outside the fridge.

Green stuff (veg and fruit) is in the fridge.

Chicken, meat, fish, etc, outside. She microvawe it the next day, or later that day to finish it off.

Sometimes not even heating it again.

I never eat it the day after, if it has been outside the fridge.

The company I work for has adopted the rules from US Public health.

We are regularly sent to refresher courses.

I asked the instructor some months ago about the fact that she has never been sick, but I have already had some bad experiences (delivered pizza).

Was it really a fact, or just a myth that we can make our bodies more resistant to some bacteria?

Not a myth he said. A fact.

Actually, more and more healt personnel these days support the theory that children these days are too protected from the environment.

They should actualy chew more dirt and sand when in the playgrounds, like previous generations did. Thus the body will gain resistance against various bacteria.

[Semper]

One thought that often passes my mind is,Thais donot use toilet paper so their hands and water are used to wash away excrepment from their bodies. These same hands then will prepare food at restaurants or in markets. I just get this weird feeling that cold water alone doesnot do an effective job in cleaning. And the way they handle the food with their hands so much makes me wonder. That all said I personnaly still havenot had a problem.Maybe all the time I spent in Mexico paid off.

You should try to stop that though for a few seconds.

Although I 100% agree that food hygiene is a major problem here, we can not just say that Thais do not use toilet paper and leave the toilets with excrements on their hands.

This would be the same as the old stupid stereotype about a certain group of people that use their fingers to wipe their asses, and write the number 1111 on the walls after.

Trust me, even though you dont know me, my wife and her family do indeed wash their hands after toilet visits.

You are quite right. And many Thais actually use bum guns, so there is no hand contact with "the brown stuff".

[kerryk]

Thailand apparently has less food poisoning cases per capita than the US.

Not saying you are wrong but I couldn't find any facts to back up your claim. Where did you get the information.

[dean999]

My wife has come to live with me in Belgium and one night she was being sick till the morning. I said it was food poisoning due to the fact she does the same as what people have written in previous posts. She says its not, because she had 4 gin and tonics. She said it was that.

I have looked after people that have been sh#t faced and have been sick only for about 30 minutes, till there is nothing left in there stomach. Then they sleep till the next day. But then maybe she was right, the tonic could of been off.

What do i know.

[Travel2003]

My wife has come to live with me in Belgium and one night she was being sick till the morning. I said it was food poisoning due to the fact she does the same as what people have written in previous posts. She says its not, because she had 4 gin and tonics. She said it was that.

I have looked after people that have been sh#t faced and have been sick only for about 30 minutes, till there is nothing left in there stomach. Then they sleep till the next day. But then maybe she was right, the tonic could of been off.

What do i know.

Which of the posts you refer to when you say she she does the same as what people have written in the previous posts here?

You mean she doesnt wash her hands or use toilet paper?

or, she is using the bum spray?

or uses the same towel and cutting boards for weeks?

Or leaving food outside the fridge?

All from prevous posts.

Which one?

I think it was too much of that good chocolate you produce in Belgium.

[GM1955]

Thailand apparently has less food poisoning cases per capita than the US.

Not saying you are wrong but I couldn't find any facts to back up your claim. Where did you get the information.

http://www.cdc.gov/n...howcontaminated

CDC estimates that that each year roughly 1 out of 6 Americans (or 48 million people) gets sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die from foodborne diseases. The great majority of these cases are mild and cause symptoms for only a day or two. The most severe cases tend to occur in the very old, the very young, those who have an illness already that reduces their immune system function, and in healthy people exposed to a very high dose of an organism.

I put it all down to lack of education, lack of caring, laziness and stupidity, after all, that's the reasons given for food contamination in Thailand isn't it ?

Same with the over 40,000 people that are Killed on US roads every year, is it because the roads are not well policed and the police will take a few dollars in a bribe, they don't know how to drive, lack of education, laziness , they don't care about life, stupidity and most of the time they are drunk ?

That's the reason for many road accidents in Thailand according to many learned Farangs, and the reasons for accidents in the USA are what exactly ? :}

Edited July 19, 2011 by GM1955

[GM1955]

Thailand apparently has less food poisoning cases per capita than the US.

This is ThaiVisa, lets not miss an opportunity to feel superior over the natives even though we are talking out of our azz !

[Travel2003]

Thailand apparently has less food poisoning cases per capita than the US.

Not saying you are wrong but I couldn't find any facts to back up your claim. Where did you get the information.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/foodborneinfections_g.htm#howcontaminated

CDC estimates that that each year roughly 1 out of 6 Americans (or 48 million people) gets sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die from foodborne diseases. The great majority of these cases are mild and cause symptoms for only a day or two. The most severe cases tend to occur in the very old, the very young, those who have an illness already that reduces their immune system function, and in healthy people exposed to a very high dose of an organism.

Saw some amazing numbers on Wiki...(Foodborne illness).

In the United States, using FoodNet data from 2000–2007, the CDCP estimated there were 47.8 million foodborne illnesses(16,000 cases for 100,000 inhabitants), 2 million in the United Kingdom (3,400 cases for 100,000 inhabitants) and 750,000 in France (1,220 cases for 100,000 inhabitants).In Australia, there are an estimated 5.4 million cases of food-borne illness every year.

But have a feeling the exactnumbers from Thailand can not be given. Since a lot of people would not seek medical help when sick from food.

[Spoonman]

The only time I have issue with the cooked rice left out thing is when it starts to move around on it's own accord.

[StreetCowboy]

Thailand apparently has less food poisoning cases per capita than the US.

This is ThaiVisa, lets not miss an opportunity to feel superior over the natives even though we are talking out of our azz !

Why would we need an 'opportunity'?

One's feeling of cultural and racial superiority is inbuilt, regardless of external evidence or 'opportunity'. That is another way in which we are like the Thais.

SC

[Travel2003]

Thailand apparently has less food poisoning cases per capita than the US.

This is ThaiVisa, lets not miss an opportunity to feel superior over the natives even though we are talking out of our azz !

But wouldn't that risk the spread of E. coli

[Semper]

Thailand apparently has less food poisoning cases per capita than the US.

Not saying you are wrong but I couldn't find any facts to back up your claim. Where did you get the information.

http://www.cdc.gov/n...howcontaminated

CDC estimates that that each year roughly 1 out of 6 Americans (or 48 million people) gets sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die from foodborne diseases. The great majority of these cases are mild and cause symptoms for only a day or two. The most severe cases tend to occur in the very old, the very young, those who have an illness already that reduces their immune system function, and in healthy people exposed to a very high dose of an organism.

I put it all down to lack of education, lack of caring, laziness and stupidity, after all, that's the reasons given for food contamination in Thailand isn't it ?

Same with the over 40,000 people that are Killed on US roads every year, is it because the roads are not well policed and the police will take a few dollars in a bribe, they don't know how to drive, lack of education, laziness , they don't care about life, stupidity and most of the time they are drunk ?

That's the reason for many road accidents in Thailand according to many learned Farangs, and the reasons for accidents in the USA are what exactly ? :}

And the death toll caused by smoking tobacco is 10 times the road accidents.

[dean999]

My wife has come to live with me in Belgium and one night she was being sick till the morning. I said it was food poisoning due to the fact she does the same as what people have written in previous posts. She says its not, because she had 4 gin and tonics. She said it was that.

I have looked after people that have been sh#t faced and have been sick only for about 30 minutes, till there is nothing left in there stomach. Then they sleep till the next day. But then maybe she was right, the tonic could of been off.

What do i know.

Which of the posts you refer to when you say she she does the same as what people have written in the previous posts here?

You mean she doesnt wash her hands or use toilet paper?

or, she is using the bum spray?

or uses the same towel and cutting boards for weeks?

Or leaving food outside the fridge?

All from prevous posts.

Which one?

I think it was too much of that good chocolate you produce in Belgium.

Leaving the food out of the fridge. I ment. I answered quick because i'm supposed to be working.

I think your right about the Belgium choc's. Since i have been here, i haven't slept properly. To hyper i guess.

[blunotes]

One of a bad habit amongs many that has long imbedded in the DNA. It's going to be a long time before this concept changed. I was in Bangkok for 8 months, got food poison 3 times. Totally pissed me off. Things like this give normal people bad name. If you ask any educated Thais, this conversation will never end. I grew up in the State and I'm still battling with this concept with some Thai families here. What can I say. It runs deep man.

Just don't eat. Throw it away.

[Latindancer]

The great majority of these cases are mild and cause symptoms for only a day or two. The most severe cases tend to occur in the very old, the very young, those who have an illness already that reduces their immune system function, and in healthy people exposed to a very high dose of an organism.

This is the crux of the matter in Thailand. Most healthy people have developed a resistance to the more common bacteria by getting slightly sick on a regular basis, and just shrug it off as normal.

The very young, old or weak / sick get ill badly and suffer; sometimes die. This is accepted as normal.

What amazes me is that there are no outbreaks of really serious diseases ( giardia, amoebic dysentery, cholera ) due to people not washing their hands properly with soap, and preferably a brush as well. Many children here wash their hands in a pretty cursory way with water only......I've seen them. I guess it's a tribute to the human immune system.Our intestines contain a lot of immune cells.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Latindancer

[GreenSnapper]

Yea the thais in europe should be yelled at for the recent major outbreak of e-coli was it that killed a bunch of people recently and sickened countless others.

I wonder after reading all those horror stories - why are some ThaiVisa members still alive?

[rubin]

Heard that Thai's have immunity to salmonella. One man's meat is another man's poison indeed.

[Thongkorn]

Maybe another cause of food poisoning is when the whole family eat out of the same bowls and dishes, with the spoon they put in there mouths. Sneezing is another one , how many times i have seen Thai people sneezing when cooking without putting the hand across there mouths

Edited July 20, 2011 by Thongkorn