Internal Row Behind Leaked National Human Rights Commission Report

[webfact]

Internal row behind leaked NHRC report, says chief

By The Nation

In the wake of a report on the 91 deaths during last year's riots being leaked to the press, National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) chairwoman Amara Pongsapich said yesterday that an conflict within the organisation might be behind it.

"Such conflicts can take place anywhere and we have been trying to ensure that this feud does not have an impact on our work," Amara told a news conference yesterday.

The NHRC has set up a factfinding panel to determine how the document was leaked. The report, published by some news media, appeared to portray the red shirts in an unfavourable light.

However, Amara said the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee tasked with the job of looking into the AprilMay 2010 crackdown.

"I am sorry for the confusion and the resulting doubt in the NHRC," she said. "But I would like to assure you that the commission has carefully selected each specialist to work with us."

She said it took the NHRC a long time to prepare the report because of contradictory information provided by witnesses and the large amount of evidence involved.

"If the public thinks the NHRC should be held responsible for the delay, then we are ready to take responsibility. We are also ready either to resign or face impeachment," Amara said.

-- The Nation 2011-07-23

[siampolee]

The NHRC has set up a factfinding panel to determine how the document was leaked. The report, published by some news media, appeared to portray the red shirts in an unfavourable light.

One would indeed be hard pushed to regard the Red Shirts manning the barricades and invading hospitals, throwing fire bombs and letting loose with a firearm or two, their leaders, rantings exhorting all concerned to bring petrol in bottles to Bangkok with the idea of burning Bangkok to the ground as , ''Paragons of Virtue

However, Amara said the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee tasked with the job of looking into the AprilMay 2010 crackdown.

Does the above comment perhaps indicate that the powers that be (whoever they are) wish to have a result that goes along with their political dogma, ?

[OzMick]

".........the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee........."

Don't give too much credence to the facts because the spin doctors haven't had a go at them yet. With red-shirt leaders sitting, or aspiring to sit, on the government team , it might be a wee tad dangerous to cast to bright a light on their previous actions. Gives a whole new meaning to "politically correct."

[rreddin]

The NHRC has set up a factfinding panel to determine how the document was leaked. The report, published by some news media, appeared to portray the red shirts in an unfavourable light.

One would indeed be hard pushed to regard the Red Shirts manning the barricades and invading hospitals, throwing fire bombs and letting loose with a firearm or two, their leaders, rantings exhorting all concerned to bring petrol in bottles to Bangkok with the idea of burning Bangkok to the ground as , ''Paragons of Virtue.

However, Amara said the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee tasked with the job of looking into the AprilMay 2010 crackdown.

Does the above comment perhaps indicate that the powers that be (whoever they are) wish to have a result that goes along with their political dogma, ?

Surely you are not suggesting that the leaked version was written in anticipation of a Democrat led coalition government supported by "the hidden hand"? Here is the dilemma for the NHRC; whatever findings they eventually publish, few people will believe them.

[backtonormal]

".........the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee........."

Don't give too much credence to the facts because the spin doctors haven't had a go at them yet. With red-shirt leaders sitting, or aspiring to sit, on the government team , it might be a wee tad dangerous to cast to bright a light on their previous actions. Gives a whole new meaning to "politically correct."

The Dems had 1 full year to bring all parties to give evidence to the table but it was not in their interest (or that of their backers) to have the truth known. To now suggest the findings will be doctored by Peua Thai. Trying to point this in the direction of a 'spin' excercise of the incoming government is nonsense. There has been negligible progress under the Dems. The PT know whos most to blame for 91 deaths and we will see this enquiry come to a conclusion quicker than under the Dems.

Some posters on here need to accept that those their opinions are valid they are totally out of touch with the vast majority of Thai people. Please sit quietly like the Dems are being made to do for the next four years

[OzMick]

".........the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee........."

Don't give too much credence to the facts because the spin doctors haven't had a go at them yet. With red-shirt leaders sitting, or aspiring to sit, on the government team , it might be a wee tad dangerous to cast to bright a light on their previous actions. Gives a whole new meaning to "politically correct."

The Dems had 1 full year to bring all parties to give evidence to the table but it was not in their interest (or that of their backers) to have the truth known. To now suggest the findings will be doctored by Peua Thai. Trying to point this in the direction of a 'spin' excercise of the incoming government is nonsense. There has been negligible progress under the Dems. The PT know whos most to blame for 91 deaths and we will see this enquiry come to a conclusion quicker than under the Dems.

Some posters on here need to accept that those their opinions are valid they are totally out of touch with the vast majority of Thai people. Please sit quietly like the Dems are being made to do for the next four years

Ah yes, the standard red-shirt line - we did nothing wrong, Abhisit is to blame for all the deaths.

Please comment on the following facts:

Abhisit made an offer of early elections, at the time the ONLY red-shirt demand. It was first accepted, then rejected - BEFORE ANY MAJOR CONFLICT OCCURRED.

In the first attempt to clear the protesters, the army commander was killed in an M-79 grenade attack in the first few minutes of fighting. Innocent bystanders were also killed by the same weapon, and a red guard has confessed to using M-79 and RPG rounds to attack the military, the oil tank farm, and a hotel in BKK.

Are these the actions of "peaceful protesters"?

It would be very nice if those repeating facts would shut up or go away, BUT IT AIN'T HAPPENING SUNSHINE!

[SICHONSTEVE]

".........the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee........."

Don't give too much credence to the facts because the spin doctors haven't had a go at them yet. With red-shirt leaders sitting, or aspiring to sit, on the government team , it might be a wee tad dangerous to cast to bright a light on their previous actions. Gives a whole new meaning to "politically correct."

The Dems had 1 full year to bring all parties to give evidence to the table but it was not in their interest (or that of their backers) to have the truth known. To now suggest the findings will be doctored by Peua Thai. Trying to point this in the direction of a 'spin' excercise of the incoming government is nonsense. There has been negligible progress under the Dems. The PT know whos most to blame for 91 deaths and we will see this enquiry come to a conclusion quicker than under the Dems.

Some posters on here need to accept that those their opinions are valid they are totally out of touch with the vast majority of Thai people. Please sit quietly like the Dems are being made to do for the next four years

Ah yes, the standard red-shirt line - we did nothing wrong, Abhisit is to blame for all the deaths.

Please comment on the following facts:

Abhisit made an offer of early elections, at the time the ONLY red-shirt demand. It was first accepted, then rejected - BEFORE ANY MAJOR CONFLICT OCCURRED.

In the first attempt to clear the protesters, the army commander was killed in an M-79 grenade attack in the first few minutes of fighting. Innocent bystanders were also killed by the same weapon, and a red guard has confessed to using M-79 and RPG rounds to attack the military, the oil tank farm, and a hotel in BKK.

Are these the actions of "peaceful protesters"?

It would be very nice if those repeating facts would shut up or go away, BUT IT AIN'T HAPPENING SUNSHINE!

Quite right, I think the PT supporters have conveniently forgotten these facts - especially about Abhisit offering a solution by promising to hold elections in November if all of their people left Bangkok of their own accord in an orderly and peaceful manner. They should have jumped at the chance but what did they do??? They ultimately said NO THANK YOU and the rest, unfortunalely is the sad history of what ensued.

Don't blame it on Abhisit - blame it on the terrorists for being unreasonable when given the golden opportunity to nip it in the bud, but instead rejecting it, hoping to extract more out of the situation!!!!

Edited July 23, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[Yme]

It's been reported that their were special forces troops around the red-shirt stage masquarading as Thai journalists and operating food carts and concession stands for weeks before the crackdown and burning of Central World and that these undercover operatives took hundreds of photographs and countless hours of video.

A person I spoke to who is in a position to know told me just recently that this report was true and the army is seething that the former government wouldn't release the photos or videos.

I guess now that PT are in power the video and photographs will never be released and end up stored in some moldy army storeroom forever.

The truth is out there, it's just not ever gonna be released anytime soon and the infantile arguing by TV members who see nothing wrong with killing PEOPLE - get that into your head, PEOPLE - will continue.

Obviously some people have been living outside of a civilized community for too long when the only way they can see to end a protest is to kill PEOPLE.

Quite revolting that while many are mourning 80+ people killed in Norway by a lunatic on TV the rednecks are finding excuses for a government killing 90+ people for protesting because it didn't have the grey matter for being able to formulate a non-lethal dispersal strategy.

Come to think of it, it's not surprising the last government won't release the undercover video or photos as no-doubt it doesn't all support all of what it claims.

[hammered]

So where can this leaked report be viewed? I seem to have missed this one

[MiG16]

Not read the comments on here but it is odd to be reading of a 'leaked' report, when one week before the election there was confirmation from NHRC that they intend to launch the report one week after election (idea was so that it doesn't affect votes)

More than a week after election has ended, report should have already been released removing the need for a leak

Strange strange thing happening.....

[OzMick]

It's been reported that their were special forces troops around the red-shirt stage masquarading as Thai journalists and operating food carts and concession stands for weeks before the crackdown and burning of Central World and that these undercover operatives took hundreds of photographs and countless hours of video.

A person I spoke to who is in a position to know told me just recently that this report was true and the army is seething that the former government wouldn't release the photos or videos.

I guess now that PT are in power the video and photographs will never be released and end up stored in some moldy army storeroom forever.

The truth is out there, it's just not ever gonna be released anytime soon and the infantile arguing by TV members who see nothing wrong with killing PEOPLE - get that into your head, PEOPLE - will continue.

Obviously some people have been living outside of a civilized community for too long when the only way they can see to end a protest is to kill PEOPLE.

Quite revolting that while many are mourning 80+ people killed in Norway by a lunatic on TV the rednecks are finding excuses for a government killing 90+ people for protesting because it didn't have the grey matter for being able to formulate a non-lethal dispersal strategy.

Come to think of it, it's not surprising the last government won't release the undercover video or photos as no-doubt it doesn't all support all of what it claims.

THE civilized way to end a protest is to give the protesters what they asked for - but that wasn't good enough.

The next step was a non-lethal dispersal strategy, soldiers with batons and riot shields, who were attacked with automatic rifle fire and M-79 grenades. Some overlook the fact that soldiers are PEOPLE too, with wives, children and families that they would like to return home to.

The next stage was grenade and RPG attacks on innocent bystanders by armed militants among the "peaceful protesters." The RPG attack on fuel tanks had the potential to kill thousands of PEOPLE. How do you disperse armed militants prepared to kill without resorting to violence?

The red shirt movement likes to describe the events of several weeks as wholesale murder of their supporters, carried out by several thousand armed troops. Today ONE Norwegian has killed 80+ people with a similar automatic rifle in a matter of a few minutes.

Red-shirts LIE, they KILL, STEAL and commit ARSON. The OP was about a leaked report which apparently supports that statement.

So come on Mr Einstein, use your grey matter and give us a non-lethal dispersal strategy.

[hammered]

Not read the comments on here but it is odd to be reading of a 'leaked' report, when one week before the election there was confirmation from NHRC that they intend to launch the report one week after election (idea was so that it doesn't affect votes)

More than a week after election has ended, report should have already been released removing the need for a leak

Strange strange thing happening.....

According to HRW something similar happened to a report due for release after the last election. Changes in political wind has effects

[MiG16]

Phuethai win comes as no surprise to most in Thailand. And certainly not to those in the know. I would say the NHRC should be somewhere amongst the 'those in the know'

Even if they didn't expect a majority win early on in the election campaign, they should have worked that out 2 weeks before election.

Anyhow, I digress. Just a personal curiosity

[SICHONSTEVE]

Phuethai win comes as no surprise to most in Thailand. And certainly not to those in the know. I would say the NHRC should be somewhere amongst the 'those in the know'

Even if they didn't expect a majority win early on in the election campaign, they should have worked that out 2 weeks before election.

Anyhow, I digress. Just a personal curiosity

The report is supposed to be a neutral and honest account of events and there shouldn't be influence as to who the guilty party is based on who they think will win the election!!!!

[MiG16]

Ofcourse in an ideal world

But I'm sure we all know that's not always the case

But my point is - they knew of high likelihood of phuethai win since quite sometime. Why still announce report launch, only to not do it? And then have it leaked?

Just sounds too strange to me. But I have no theory , no conspiracy explanation to suggest

[SICHONSTEVE]

Ofcourse in an ideal world

But I'm sure we all know that's not always the case

But my point is - they knew of high likelihood of phuethai win since quite sometime. Why still announce report launch, only to not do it? And then have it leaked?

Just sounds too strange to me. But I have no theory , no conspiracy explanation to suggest

I think that they would be better off not giving issue dates as they rarely keep to them. They always find some additional information that needs to be incorporated into the report and it seems never ending until it finally comes out. One thing you can be sure of and that's that nothing will come of it unless there is some serious and provable wrong-doings that have taken place and so they are usually a waste of time!!!

As for the leak it is sometimes down to mischief making and occasionally to gauge the response from the public and relevant parties whereby they can adjust it so as not to upset too many people (as against if they were to release it in the leaked form which didn't go down too well following it's leak) that is.

[lannarebirth]

It's been reported that their were special forces troops around the red-shirt stage masquarading as Thai journalists and operating food carts and concession stands for weeks before the crackdown and burning of Central World and that these undercover operatives took hundreds of photographs and countless hours of video.

A person I spoke to who is in a position to know told me just recently that this report was true and the army is seething that the former government wouldn't release the photos or videos.

I guess now that PT are in power the video and photographs will never be released and end up stored in some moldy army storeroom forever.

The truth is out there, it's just not ever gonna be released anytime soon and the infantile arguing by TV members who see nothing wrong with killing PEOPLE - get that into your head, PEOPLE - will continue.

Obviously some people have been living outside of a civilized community for too long when the only way they can see to end a protest is to kill PEOPLE.

Quite revolting that while many are mourning 80+ people killed in Norway by a lunatic on TV the rednecks are finding excuses for a government killing 90+ people for protesting because it didn't have the grey matter for being able to formulate a non-lethal dispersal strategy.

Come to think of it, it's not surprising the last government won't release the undercover video or photos as no-doubt it doesn't all support all of what it claims.

That's one of the weirdest posts I've ever read here, and there have been many weird posts..

[SICHONSTEVE]

It's been reported that their were special forces troops around the red-shirt stage masquarading as Thai journalists and operating food carts and concession stands for weeks before the crackdown and burning of Central World and that these undercover operatives took hundreds of photographs and countless hours of video.

A person I spoke to who is in a position to know told me just recently that this report was true and the army is seething that the former government wouldn't release the photos or videos.

I guess now that PT are in power the video and photographs will never be released and end up stored in some moldy army storeroom forever.

The truth is out there, it's just not ever gonna be released anytime soon and the infantile arguing by TV members who see nothing wrong with killing PEOPLE - get that into your head, PEOPLE - will continue.

Obviously some people have been living outside of a civilized community for too long when the only way they can see to end a protest is to kill PEOPLE.

Quite revolting that while many are mourning 80+ people killed in Norway by a lunatic on TV the rednecks are finding excuses for a government killing 90+ people for protesting because it didn't have the grey matter for being able to formulate a non-lethal dispersal strategy.

Come to think of it, it's not surprising the last government won't release the undercover video or photos as no-doubt it doesn't all support all of what it claims.

That's one of the weirdest posts I've ever read here, and there have been many weird posts..

A bit of a do about nothing!!! - I doubt the validity of it myself and think it is plain nonsense if the truth be known

[whybother]

It's been reported that their were special forces troops around the red-shirt stage masquarading as Thai journalists and operating food carts and concession stands for weeks before the crackdown and burning of Central World and that these undercover operatives took hundreds of photographs and countless hours of video.

<snip>

Where has this been reported?

[SICHONSTEVE]

It's been reported that their were special forces troops around the red-shirt stage masquarading as Thai journalists and operating food carts and concession stands for weeks before the crackdown and burning of Central World and that these undercover operatives took hundreds of photographs and countless hours of video.

<snip>

Where has this been reported?

It hasn't been because it didn't happen. I think he has been watching too many James Bond movies

[Bakseedaa]

".........the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee........."

Don't give too much credence to the facts because the spin doctors haven't had a go at them yet. With red-shirt leaders sitting, or aspiring to sit, on the government team , it might be a wee tad dangerous to cast to bright a light on their previous actions. Gives a whole new meaning to "politically correct."

The Dems had 1 full year to bring all parties to give evidence to the table but it was not in their interest (or that of their backers) to have the truth known. To now suggest the findings will be doctored by Peua Thai. Trying to point this in the direction of a 'spin' excercise of the incoming government is nonsense. There has been negligible progress under the Dems. The PT know whos most to blame for 91 deaths and we will see this enquiry come to a conclusion quicker than under the Dems.

Some posters on here need to accept that those their opinions are valid they are totally out of touch with the vast majority of Thai people. Please sit quietly like the Dems are being made to do for the next four years

Obviously you were banned under your previous name... tread carefully, we may recognise you.. just a wee tad....

[lannarebirth]

It's been reported that their were special forces troops around the red-shirt stage masquarading as Thai journalists and operating food carts and concession stands for weeks before the crackdown and burning of Central World and that these undercover operatives took hundreds of photographs and countless hours of video.

<snip>

Where has this been reported?

It hasn't been because it didn't happen. I think he has been watching too many James Bond movies

Actually, I thought that was the most credible part. Why wouldn't opposing forces get in as near as they could to gather as much intelligence as they could. Take off your uniform and your just another moo satay vendor. It broke down seriously thereafter however.

[hellodolly]

".........the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee........."

Don't give too much credence to the facts because the spin doctors haven't had a go at them yet. With red-shirt leaders sitting, or aspiring to sit, on the government team , it might be a wee tad dangerous to cast to bright a light on their previous actions. Gives a whole new meaning to "politically correct."

The Dems had 1 full year to bring all parties to give evidence to the table but it was not in their interest (or that of their backers) to have the truth known. To now suggest the findings will be doctored by Peua Thai. Trying to point this in the direction of a 'spin' excercise of the incoming government is nonsense. There has been negligible progress under the Dems. The PT know whos most to blame for 91 deaths and we will see this enquiry come to a conclusion quicker than under the Dems.

Some posters on here need to accept that those their opinions are valid they are totally out of touch with the vast majority of Thai people. Please sit quietly like the Dems are being made to do for the next four years

The Dems did not need any parties to give evidence.

The news media with there cameras did a fine job.

PT will now set out to find the evidence that the Democrats forced them to illegally seize a part of down town Bangkok. And the people urge them on to burn Bangkok down were secretly in the hire of the Democrats as were the armed men and the one hiding behind his child and the ones who invaded a hospital.

That is the only evidence the PT will accept.

What a Joke.

If they truly want to unite Thailand the very first thing they should do is denounce the actions of the red shirts. They can condone there original motives but they can not continue to condone their actions and look for scape goats.

Would you continue to be a red shirt if they moved into your neighborhood refused to move made it imposable for you to go to work and make a living for your family and when they are done leave it looking like a garbage dump. And remember many of them were paid to do that. And many of them were told they would receive money but never did.

I think not.

[hammered]

Ofcourse in an ideal world

But I'm sure we all know that's not always the case

But my point is - they knew of high likelihood of phuethai win since quite sometime. Why still announce report launch, only to not do it? And then have it leaked?

Just sounds too strange to me. But I have no theory , no conspiracy explanation to suggest

I think when these panels get set up the make up is quite varied and not everyone is a "political pragmatist" who flows with the wind, but some are more zealous and want their version out there. I doubt a governmental change would deter the zealots. There were also lots of pro-red leaks from within the establishment when the dems had power. This is likely the other way. Of course no comment on the veracity of what was reported as I havent even seen it. Also as delusional as it sounds there were those who thought BJT were going to roll back the Thaksin party in the Isaan even as late as a few days before the election

[lannarebirth]

Ofcourse in an ideal world

But I'm sure we all know that's not always the case

But my point is - they knew of high likelihood of phuethai win since quite sometime. Why still announce report launch, only to not do it? And then have it leaked?

Just sounds too strange to me. But I have no theory , no conspiracy explanation to suggest

I think when these panels get set up the make up is quite varied and not everyone is a "political pragmatist" who flows with the wind, but some are more zealous and want their version out there. I doubt a governmental change would deter the zealots. There were also lots of pro-red leaks from within the establishment when the dems had power. This is likely the other way. Of course no comment on the veracity of what was reported as I havent even seen it. Also as delusional as it sounds there were those who thought BJT were going to roll back the Thaksin party in the Isaan even as late as a few days before the election

I find it extremely interesting that the only two choices of what might be heard is a "version" of events from "political pragmatists" and a "version" of events from "zealots who want their version out there". No one makes any allowances for not even one member being a seeker of truth? Or is disparagement of all members a way of discounting what might be true?

[backtonormal]

".........the report was based only on a preliminary factfinding process and had not been reviewed by an NHRC subcommittee........."

Don't give too much credence to the facts because the spin doctors haven't had a go at them yet. With red-shirt leaders sitting, or aspiring to sit, on the government team , it might be a wee tad dangerous to cast to bright a light on their previous actions. Gives a whole new meaning to "politically correct."

The Dems had 1 full year to bring all parties to give evidence to the table but it was not in their interest (or that of their backers) to have the truth known. To now suggest the findings will be doctored by Peua Thai. Trying to point this in the direction of a 'spin' excercise of the incoming government is nonsense. There has been negligible progress under the Dems. The PT know whos most to blame for 91 deaths and we will see this enquiry come to a conclusion quicker than under the Dems.

Some posters on here need to accept that those their opinions are valid they are totally out of touch with the vast majority of Thai people. Please sit quietly like the Dems are being made to do for the next four years

The Dems did not need any parties to give evidence.

The news media with there cameras did a fine job.

PT will now set out to find the evidence that the Democrats forced them to illegally seize a part of down town Bangkok. And the people urge them on to burn Bangkok down were secretly in the hire of the Democrats as were the armed men and the one hiding behind his child and the ones who invaded a hospital.

That is the only evidence the PT will accept.

What a Joke.

If they truly want to unite Thailand the very first thing they should do is denounce the actions of the red shirts. They can condone there original motives but they can not continue to condone their actions and look for scape goats.

Would you continue to be a red shirt if they moved into your neighborhood refused to move made it imposable for you to go to work and make a living for your family and when they are done leave it looking like a garbage dump. And remember many of them were paid to do that. And many of them were told they would receive money but never did.

I think not.

The news media did do a fine job but not the government controlled Thai Press, the foreigtn media who also became targets. I suggest you buy cable. Anyway accept the fact Thaksins coming home to his people and there is not a jot you can do about it. You have your opinion, which we all do, trouble is mine will always be closer to the majority of Thais.

While I am banging a way on the keys, I dont know if this has been covered on here, so dont scream if it has, The word in the jungle is why were the polls so accurate all over the country yet totally wrong in Bangkok where a PT victory was expected by all poll firms. Even the most accurate polls, over recent past ,had it totally wrong. Did all the Dems lie on exit or were some of those extra ballot papers filled in on somebodys behalf. If the rumour is true expect it to be kept in the locker for later discrediting of the Dems and their followers. Finished now over to you

[whybother]

The news media did do a fine job but not the government controlled Thai Press, the foreigtn media who also became targets. I suggest you buy cable. Anyway accept the fact Thaksins coming home to his people and there is not a jot you can do about it. You have your opinion, which we all do, trouble is mine will always be closer to the majority of Thais.

There's probably not a lot that TV posters can do to stop him "coming home to his people", but I'm sure there will be plenty of others that will be out trying to stop him.

While I am banging a way on the keys, I dont know if this has been covered on here, so dont scream if it has, The word in the jungle is why were the polls so accurate all over the country yet totally wrong in Bangkok where a PT victory was expected by all poll firms. Even the most accurate polls, over recent past ,had it totally wrong. Did all the Dems lie on exit or were some of those extra ballot papers filled in on somebodys behalf. If the rumour is true expect it to be kept in the locker for later discrediting of the Dems and their followers. Finished now over to you

The Bangkok exit polls gave a lot of seats to PTP which the Democrats eventually won by a small margin. The margin of error in exit polls would be quite high because there would be a lot of people that simply don't want to tell people what they did.

Also, the PTP would have representatives at all polling stations. The counting is done by individually calling out each vote, and the number of votes have to match the number of people that voted. There is very little opportunity to alter the count.

Of course, that doesn't stop people listening to the conspiracy theories with out actually thinking. No surprise that these conspiracy theories are spreading in PTP territory.