PeeJay1959 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 My Thai Gf has just been refused visitor visa. With the help of reading many posts on this forum we thought we had things sewn up, Costs met by me, her proof of returning to Thailand, accomodation etc... But the refusal came back that we hadn't known each other long enough. we have been emailing, chatting and phoning for 6 months, all the records of that were submitted along with proof of my 2 week visit, on her application and in my invite/sponsor letter we put that the purpose of the visit was to get to know each other better. Should she appeal or do I need to visit her again in Thailand before re-applying? Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beano2274 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Some ECOs think that 6 months is not long enough to really know each other, I disagree. I don't think you can appeal against a ruling regarding a tourist visa. Just wait out another couple of months, and try again, maybe get her to you around Christmas time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kunash Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 can you post the embassy's full ruling on your gf's visa rejection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiVisaExpress Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It has no right of appeal you should perhaps wait until your relationship has matured a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrfeild Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Well now, having told them the reason of the visit was to get to know each other better, makes the refusal understandable. I doubt e-mails and a two week visit proves anyhting as far as the relationship goes! So I would forget trying to bring her to the UK a few more visits by you and not saying to get to know each other better. might work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiVisaExpress Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 can you post the embassy's full ruling on your gf's visa rejection? It wont make any real difference if the ECO has suggested the relationship should mature then the sponsor should wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Whilst I agree with TVE's comment above, experience with forums such as this has shown me that, with respect, the way the law requires refusal notices be written means that people can misunderstand them. So, posting the full refusal notice may help us advise on how to better prepare her next application, and when would be the best time to apply. Your choice, of course. If you do post the refusal notice, remember that this is a public forum which anyone can read; so you should remove her name and any other identifying information first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisasPlus Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 All of the replies that you have received are correct. However, it is useful to see the refusal letter as it may be that the visa officer has made an error in law judgment when making the decision. Without seeing the Notice of Refusal we cannot know. Also. as stated, there is no right of appeal against a General Visit refusal. That said, if the visa officer has made a "wrong" decision, a well-worded letter of representation can sometimes produce results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeJay1959 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Thanks guys, I will try and get a copy of the notice and post it, but it looks like another holiday for me, I don't mind I love it there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiVisaExpress Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 All of the replies that you have received are correct. However, it is useful to see the refusal letter as it may be that the visa officer has made an error in law judgment when making the decision. Without seeing the Notice of Refusal we cannot know. Also. as stated, there is no right of appeal against a General Visit refusal. That said, if the visa officer has made a "wrong" decision, a well-worded letter of representation can sometimes produce results. One can only try Tony . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisasPlus Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) All of the replies that you have received are correct. However, it is useful to see the refusal letter as it may be that the visa officer has made an error in law judgment when making the decision. Without seeing the Notice of Refusal we cannot know. Also. as stated, there is no right of appeal against a General Visit refusal. That said, if the visa officer has made a "wrong" decision, a well-worded letter of representation can sometimes produce results. One can only try Tony . You are right. I just had another refusal decision overturned at the Embassy. No right of appeal, but a long letter of complaint from us about the reasons for refusal. The Embassy merely called the applicant to come in with her passport. No apology for messing things up, of course. Edited July 26, 2011 by VisasPlus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiVisaExpress Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 All of the replies that you have received are correct. However, it is useful to see the refusal letter as it may be that the visa officer has made an error in law judgment when making the decision. Without seeing the Notice of Refusal we cannot know. Also. as stated, there is no right of appeal against a General Visit refusal. That said, if the visa officer has made a "wrong" decision, a well-worded letter of representation can sometimes produce results. One can only try Tony . You are right. I just had another refusal decision overturned at the Embassy. No right of appeal, but a long letter of complaint from us about the reasons for refusal. The Embassy merely called the applicant to come in with her passport. No apology for messing things up, of course. I believe they have employed 15 locally engaged Thai employees processing applications. It is all well & good supplying all the relevant documents & meeting the requirements but in the real world mistakes are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisstouristpattaya Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 6 months seem short to me. and only knowing a lady by email is not enough. 2years would be different, and living together for 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokburning Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I see a few problems. It appears you met her online. This appears to be the kiss of death, I have good info source on this. Second, I do not know how long is enough time but I could tell you before you submitted that chatting up a girl online six months and maybe visiting her here in Thailand once for two weeks no way will get her a visa, especially if she is not a BKK office worker. I'd plan on spending a lot more time here before attempting again. My 2 baht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisasPlus Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) They met online ? Did I miss something ? What is your "good info source" ? I know several successful visa applicants who met online, so I would be interested to learn what your source knows that others don't. Edited July 28, 2011 by VisasPlus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZELL Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I see a few problems. It appears you met her online. This appears to be the kiss of death, I have good info source on this. Second, I do not know how long is enough time but I could tell you before you submitted that chatting up a girl online six months and maybe visiting her here in Thailand once for two weeks no way will get her a visa, especially if she is not a BKK office worker. I'd plan on spending a lot more time here before attempting again. My 2 baht Mmm.... Seen many people who met their other halves online who were later given visit or settlement visas. However, just one two week visit doesn't really prove an "ongoing and subsisting" relationship IMHO. Have another holiday to Thailand and apply again. I also see nothing wrong with writing you want to get to know each other better. That's why many people live together before marriage isn't it? Good luck in the future RAZZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrfeild Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I see a few problems. It appears you met her online. This appears to be the kiss of death, I have good info source on this. Second, I do not know how long is enough time but I could tell you before you submitted that chatting up a girl online six months and maybe visiting her here in Thailand once for two weeks no way will get her a visa, especially if she is not a BKK office worker. I'd plan on spending a lot more time here before attempting again. My 2 baht Mmm.... Seen many people who met their other halves online who were later given visit or settlement visas. However, just one two week visit doesn't really prove an "ongoing and subsisting" relationship IMHO. Have another holiday to Thailand and apply again. I also see nothing wrong with writing you want to get to know each other better. That's why many people live together before marriage isn't it? Good luck in the future RAZZ That's a fair comment if he had met the lady in the UK, But lets face it, if she were to get a visa to the UK under the getting to know her better guise then the OP has no real gaurantee that she won't dissapear once she arrives in the UK, and that is probably what the Embbassy are thinking as well. I doubt that another 2 week holiday would improve her chances either. If the OP spent six months here in Thailand getting to know her, that might change things. With respect a few phone calls and e-mails and 14 days with her is not knowing someone, which is again what the Embassy would probably be looking for. Probably the wrong reason for making the application in the first place? But good luck anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZELL Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 That's a fair comment if he had met the lady in the UK, But lets face it, if she were to get a visa to the UK under the getting to know her better guise then the OP has no real gaurantee that she won't dissapear once she arrives in the UK, and that is probably what the Embbassy are thinking as well. I doubt that another 2 week holiday would improve her chances either. If the OP spent six months here in Thailand getting to know her, that might change things. With respect a few phone calls and e-mails and 14 days with her is not knowing someone, which is again what the Embassy would probably be looking for. Probably the wrong reason for making the application in the first place? But good luck anyway. There's no "guarantee" that anyone won't disappear The rules for getting a visa are quite simple. Satisfy them and you get a one. Legally, it doesn't matter if you met at work, online or down Soi 6! The ECO's don't judge people, only the bits of paper put in front of them. If the OP's gf shows s/he can fulfil the maintenance, accommodation, "reason to return" etc requirements she will get entry clearance... RAZZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokburning Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Ah Visas+ my new nemesis... The way I read the initial post by the OP the visit followed their "meeting". Read it again. Perhaps you know a few, after all it is your BUSINESS. My gf has been thru this process and was successful. One thing we learned along the way was that meeting someone online was one of the worst ways to get a person back to the west. How I (we) learned that - I do not wish to divulge. You are wholly welcome not to accept that or not, I really don't care. I think the advice to challenge the application is very poor. Last thing you want to do is piss those people off. Of course, such actions incur fees $$ and that goes into the pockets of visa agents. At least if the agency challenges, its not you personally so I doubt it will be taken as such. Challenging it on your own, looking for some petty, smarmy legal technicality is not going to will you any goodwill. Promise you that. No way this scenario will get you a visa to the west and do not let any visa agent tell you otherwise. MAYBE some really wealthy guy posting a bond, working through lawyers not agents might pull it off. Used to be possible for the French and Scandinavians (Sweden is pretty liberal with visas for Thais). Meeting a woman online Chatting with her Spending a few weeks with her Chatting more with her ----------------------------------- Will not equal a visa. No way, no how. Edited July 28, 2011 by bangkokburning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkockney Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think the advice to challenge the application is very poor. Or indeed completely imagined by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldgit Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 The way I read the initial post by the OP the visit followed their "meeting". Read it again. I'm sorry that I don't read it that they met online either, and I've read it a number of times. When the OP says they have been emailing and chatting for six months, I took that to mean after his visit, if it's the other way round then you could be correct, but I don't remember a question on the form asking where an applicant met the sponsor. The ECO has to be satisfied that the the visit is genuine and that the applicant with leave the UK at the conclusion of the holiday and the OP seemed pretty confident that they had covered all the bases. If it's clear that the ECO has made an error of judgement and misinterpreted the evidence then by all means they should challenge it, I doubt very much if a polite but robust challenge would "piss those people off" and I don't think for a minute that they would hold a grudge and mark the applicants card - unless you know different. Whilst I'm not an agent I find your comment that agents are "looking for some petty, smarmy legal technicality" quite insulting, if the ECO has made a mistake in interpreting material facts then it is, in my opinion, right and proper that it should be pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisasPlus Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 OG, this guy has a problem with me. See his other posts today. He is insulting, that's for sure, and certainly cannot admit when he is wrong. I should ignore him, as I intend to do shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Please stick to the topic and leave personal feuds out of the forum. If anyone feels that a particular post is objectionable or otherwise breaks the forum rules; use the report button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanaris Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Ah Visas+ my new nemesis... The way I read the initial post by the OP the visit followed their "meeting". Read it again. Perhaps you know a few, after all it is your BUSINESS. My gf has been thru this process and was successful. One thing we learned along the way was that meeting someone online was one of the worst ways to get a person back to the west. How I (we) learned that - I do not wish to divulge. You are wholly welcome not to accept that or not, I really don't care. No way this scenario will get you a visa to the west and do not let any visa agent tell you otherwise. MAYBE some really wealthy guy posting a bond, working through lawyers not agents might pull it off. Used to be possible for the French and Scandinavians (Sweden is pretty liberal with visas for Thais). Meeting a woman online Chatting with her Spending a few weeks with her Chatting more with her ----------------------------------- Will not equal a visa. No way, no how. Very interesting ideas and thoughts you have although I have to disagree. Please do not let the time element affect any future applications. I met my wife on line in January 2010 chatted to her by email and phone until April when I visited for 2 weeks Talked every day on phone until August 2010, got married September 2010 Settlement Visa obtained 17th November 2010 Total time from meeting to visa = 10 months hmmm (oh and I am not rich by any means, just a normal guy with a normal job, renting a 2 bedroom apartment) This shows each case is judged fairly on its own merits in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrfeild Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Ah Visas+ my new nemesis... The way I read the initial post by the OP the visit followed their "meeting". Read it again. Perhaps you know a few, after all it is your BUSINESS. My gf has been thru this process and was successful. One thing we learned along the way was that meeting someone online was one of the worst ways to get a person back to the west. How I (we) learned that - I do not wish to divulge. You are wholly welcome not to accept that or not, I really don't care. No way this scenario will get you a visa to the west and do not let any visa agent tell you otherwise. MAYBE some really wealthy guy posting a bond, working through lawyers not agents might pull it off. Used to be possible for the French and Scandinavians (Sweden is pretty liberal with visas for Thais). Meeting a woman online Chatting with her Spending a few weeks with her Chatting more with her ----------------------------------- Will not equal a visa. No way, no how. Very interesting ideas and thoughts you have although I have to disagree. Please do not let the time element affect any future applications. I met my wife on line in January 2010 chatted to her by email and phone until April when I visited for 2 weeks Talked every day on phone until August 2010, got married September 2010 Settlement Visa obtained 17th November 2010 Total time from meeting to visa = 10 months hmmm (oh and I am not rich by any means, just a normal guy with a normal job, renting a 2 bedroom apartment) This shows each case is judged fairly on its own merits in my opinion Might I suggest your situation is somewhat different from the OP's. Trying to bring your wife is not the same as trying to bring someone you would like to get to know better! I agree that it doesn't matter how you met your wife/girlfriend? It's the end result that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZELL Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Might I suggest your situation is somewhat different from the OP's. Trying to bring your wife is not the same as trying to bring someone you would like to get to know better! I agree that it doesn't matter how you met your wife/girlfriend? It's the end result that matters. As I've said before, "getting to know someone better" is part of the learning process in any relationship. I wrote something similar when my now wife applied for a V/V. I think it's a "given" in any application that people who are in a "long-distance" relationship and live 6,000 miles apart would like to spend some more time together - and for most it's easier for their partner to come to the UK. RAZZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrfeild Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Might I suggest your situation is somewhat different from the OP's. Trying to bring your wife is not the same as trying to bring someone you would like to get to know better! I agree that it doesn't matter how you met your wife/girlfriend? It's the end result that matters. As I've said before, "getting to know someone better" is part of the learning process in any relationship. I wrote something similar when my now wife applied for a V/V. I think it's a "given" in any application that people who are in a "long-distance" relationship and live 6,000 miles apart would like to spend some more time together - and for most it's easier for their partner to come to the UK. RAZZ Well maybe if he can say he's known her for a couple years, visiting her as often as possible with all the e-mails and phone calls, he might get a yes! You state the obvious, I Just thought bringing a wife to the UK is different to bringing a girlfriend to the UK. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I'm sure it wouldn't apply to anyone here, but it has been known for applicants to obtain a visit visa based upon a relationship with a UK sponsor, only to disappear once in the UK; either with or without their sponsor's prior knowledge and collaboration. So, if the basis of the application is the relationship between applicant and sponsor then the ECO has to be satisfied that the relationship is genuine. Especially if the applicant has no concrete reason to return. Obviously the longer a couple have known each other, the more contact they have had etc. the easier this will be to show. However, as the OP has yet to post the actual refusal notice, specific comments on his girlfriend's refusal are pure speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somtampet Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Some ECOs think that 6 months is not long enough to really know each other, I disagree. I don't think you can appeal against a ruling regarding a tourist visa. Just wait out another couple of months, and try again, maybe get her to you around Christmas time. They have actualy been with each other for 2 weeks if i have read it right,and spoke on phone and email for 6 months,to me no where near long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 One extremely inappropriate post has been removed as well as an associated reply. Apologies to the member who had their reply removed. :jap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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