Friend Unwisely Turned Down Payment For Accident

[NancyL]

A very dear elderly friend of mine was hit by a couple of motorcycles while trying to cross the street in front of Riverside Condo on Wednesday. She was taken to Rajavej Hospital and urgently needs surgery to fix her shattered leg. Shortly after the accident, a young Thai woman came into her room, crying and holding a wallet full of money. My friend recognized the beautiful young woman from the accident scene. The Thai woman tried to give my friend the money, and in her drugged state, my friend said "oh no, that's alright honey. I don't need your money", and sent her on her way.

In truth, my friend desperately needs the funds. She has no insurnace, no financial reserves, a family that refuses to assist and the hospital wants payment upfront. Efforts with the police have been unfruitful. Apparently, some of the people involved in the accident don't have insurance and some fled the scene. We think three or four motorcycles were involved in the pile-up before it was over. So, it looks like my friend won't collect anything from the Thai government or insurance.

I know this is a long-shot, but I was hoping someone here knows of a beautiful, young Thai woman who was distraught on Wednesday because she hit an elderly western women trying to crossing the street. If so, could you please ask the young woman to return to the hospital and make the deposit for my friend.

Thank you.

Edited July 29, 2011 by NancyL

[pete66]

Long shot, but hospital CCTV???

[Fishenough]

Rajavej.

She will be going into surgery shortly and we wish her the best and a speedy recovery. Hopefully some home cooking will cheer her up (that I'm good at)!

[uptheos]

I feel for your friend and sorry I'm not here to give you any information and I wish her all the best.

I just wanted to say that I wish the BIB would stop concentrating on stopping people for not wearing helmets (if they are hurt it's their own fault), but concentrate their resources on stopping people to check if they have any insurance in case they hurt someone else!

[PlanetX]

I feel for your friend and sorry I'm not here to give you any information and I wish her all the best.

I just wanted to say that I wish the BIB would stop concentrating on stopping people for not wearing helmets (if they are hurt it's their own fault), but concentrate their resources on stopping people to check if they have any insurance in case they hurt someone else!

I guess you could also advise foriegners to have some kind of accident insurance as well

[uptheos]

I feel for your friend and sorry I'm not here to give you any information and I wish her all the best.

I just wanted to say that I wish the BIB would stop concentrating on stopping people for not wearing helmets (if they are hurt it's their own fault), but concentrate their resources on stopping people to check if they have any insurance in case they hurt someone else!

I guess you could also advise foriegners to have some kind of accident insurance as well

Yes, good point.

[New2LOS]

She's elderly, has a shattered leg, and " a family that refuses to assist . . " ?? That's strange. Makes one wonder.

[uptheos]

She's elderly, has a shattered leg, and " a family that refuses to assist . . " ?? That's strange. Makes one wonder.

About what.....the fact that she has a broken leg and needs help?

Did she get the leg fixed Nancy?

Edited July 29, 2011 by uptheos

[millwall_fan]

Do you have any rough idea how much the bill will be Nancy? or how much the hospital want in advance? Rajavej's fees are very reasonable. Maybe we could do some fund raising.

[Sansai Sam]

I am very aware of the circumstances of this terrible accident and I am also a friend of the injured party but as much as I hate to point it out this is exactly why the Thai government requires you to have 800,000 baht in the bank if you want to retire here.

[Greenside]

Actually, they don't necessarily require you to have 800,000 in the bank but you do have to have the appropriate income. I know people who shave their spending so close they can barely afford to go out towards the end of the month when their pension/income/whatever comes in.

It probably won't be long before the government insists that you show some minimum level of medical insurance which would be a more sensible way of ensuring people don't end up without the means to cover an emergency like this.

I just called in at the hospital and she's recovering in a post op. bed but we were unable to visit. The nurse couldn't give any info on the success or otherwise of the surgery and right now I don't know how the payment was met.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Greenside

[elektrified]

I feel for the victim as well but have to concur with both PlanetX and Sansai Sam (to a certain extent). I think foreigners should be required to have some basic accident insurance while in the Kingdom.

[pete66]

I am very aware of the circumstances of this terrible accident and I am also a friend of the injured party but as much as I hate to point it out this is exactly why the Thai government requires you to have 800,000 baht in the bank if you want to retire here.

That doesn't make any sense. What if you come here as a tourist, retired or not? Plenty have insurance, plenty don't. Its got nothing to do with visa status.

To the extent that your statement has any logic, what you are saying is that you don't believe your "friend" should have been in Thailand because she didn't have 800K in the bank. With friends like that ......

Edited July 29, 2011 by pete66

[Sansai Sam]

Firstly there is no agreeing or disagreeing with me because I am merely stating a fact. As I mentioned I am VERY aware of the circumstances and the finances of the victim and the family issues...secondly pete66 it makes perfect sense as the injured is NOT a tourist. She is a retiree living here. She is also a friend and I feel terrible for her but facts are facts. I do know she is resting comfortably and I do know how payment was met. I am not in the habit of making uninformed statements.

[Joop50]

I agree with Millwall_fan that maybe we could do some fund raising if necessary.

[Mapguy]

This is not to lack sympathy or diminish the seriousness of the accident victim's plight. I take NancyL's (and others') information as genuine, but it is very incomplete, and happily the physician and hospital are doing what needs to be done now to help her. Never mind the story about the young Thai visitor. I doubt the wallet had sufficient cash in it. It was apparently a gift, however small, of conscience.

It is difficult to estimate the total cost of hip surgery and rehabilitation, especially for a person as old as she is. It certainly depends on the individual. A reasonable estimate of hip surgery and rehabilitation might be around 150,000 baht, but that is still a guess. Assuming that she meets the requirements of a retirement visa, she should be able to handle the expense herself, not that that is much immediate comfort at all, but apparently the physician and the hospital haven't waited around to see payment. That everyone can be thankful for.

One is justifiably horrified at her plight and sympathetic. Reading above, she is apparently fortunate to have some very good friends. At the same time, this incident is at least a tragic reminder of the wishful thinking of people, especially those apparently living in

isolated circumstances and without family support for whatever reason, that appropriate insurance or other personal resources are a necessity, not a luxury. Chiang Mai seems to have a lot of people like that. Reminders, as above, about insurance are not out of place. "Passing the hat" is not a good solution.

Is this anonymous person from a country that has a social service network to take care of such a sad situation? Perhaps there is assistance from her government. Should Thailand, probably not as economically rich as her homeland, be concerned about expatriates and take responsibility for them? Some countries refuse to take immigrants over a certain age. I believe that New Zealand might be one of them. In this case, do we think that the hospital is heartless or that the Thai government will ship her out?

The immediate need has been filled. Let's hope she mends well and soon. Otherwise, it is not inappropriate to ask larger questions.

[Ulysses G.]

Is this anonymous person from a country that has a social service network to take care of such a sad situation? Perhaps there is assistance from her government.

She is from the US and has had financial problems for some time. If she was willing to go home to the USA, she might get some help because of her age (?), but is dependent on the kindness of strangers here.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[elektrified]

Is this anonymous person from a country that has a social service network to take care of such a sad situation? Perhaps there is assistance from her government.

She is from the US and has had financial problems for some time. If she was willing to go home to the USA, she might get some help because of her age (?), but is dependent on the kindness of strangers here.

She must be, at the very least, collecting her Social Security benefits? If she went home she could use her Medicare benefits to get some excellent health care.

[CaptHaddock]

She is from the US and has had financial problems for some time. If she was willing to go home to the USA, she might get some help because of her age (?), but is dependent on the kindness of strangers here.

No they won't. Probably she is not a Medicare participant if she has been having financial problems. She won't qualify for Medicaid either because she will not be a resident of any state.

[Ulysses G.]

Not everyone gets social security. You have had to pay a certain amount into the system. However, my guess is that she does get it and that this is what she has been living on. It usually does not go far, even here.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Drew Aitch]

Thailand is like the UK when it comes to hospitals and emergency treatment in that they will make sure someone is taken care of first and worry about how they're going to get paid after. I believe there are some wealthy and so called 'civilised nations' around the world that would let a person rot and die if they couldn't show finances up front.

So as awful as this is, I am sure they lady will be well taken care of by whichever hospital does the surgery and after care. The issue or payment, or not as the case may be, will also be dealt with in a human way between the parties.

Aitch

Edited July 30, 2011 by metisdead
Font

[New2LOS]

She's elderly, has a shattered leg, and " a family that refuses to assist . . " ?? That's strange. Makes one wonder.

About what.....the fact that she has a broken leg and needs help?

Did she get the leg fixed Nancy?

Clearly what I was commenting about being odd is not her injury, but the fact that she has family that refuses to help. Why would family refuse to help? There was no information about the family being unable to help, just that they refused to help. That is what I was wondering about since the injured person is receiving sympathy, support, etc. from everyone except her family.

[NancyL]

Thank you for everyone's interest. I knew it was a long-shot that anyone in the expat community might know of a beautiful young Thai lady who was distraught because she hit an elderly western lady who refused to accept her "tham bun". I know the amount of the funds probably were small, but every bit helps with this case.

The hospital required about 1/2 upfront. Yes, the total bill is anticipated to be in line with Mapguy's estimates, maybe a bit higher. She isn't able to travel until her situation is stabilized, so returning home isn't an immediate option. Once she returns home, she'd have to "make up" for all the time she hasn't been paying Medicare in order to receive Medicare payments. She came to Thailand after age 75, so it was impossible to get health insurance. It's my understanding that you can maintain health insurance after age 75, but you can't come on as a new customer after that age. Oh, and she's estranged from her daughters. I don't know why some find that strange or odd. Chiang Mai is full of elderly retirees estranged from their children. Doting grandmothers don't come here to retire (unless their grandkids are here!)

Thank you Millwall Fan, for the suggestion of a fund raiser. I think we will probably have to do just that to pay off the balance of the hospital bill.

This afternoon I hung around the Tops food court at KSK and basically did a high-class version of street begging (but limiting myself to people I know). I wasn't very successful in raising funds and was amazed to discover that many retired expats would be in a similar situation. I think many people are deluding themselves when they think that the Thai hospitals "have to" take care of them in case of an emergency. This hospital did just the minimum until the deposit was received. Also, it's wrong to think you can "always go home for care". You can't travel very far if your leg and hip are shattered because a couple of motorcycles hit you.

Edited July 29, 2011 by NancyL

[endure]

Thailand is like the UK when it comes to hospitals and emergency treatment in that they will make sure someone is taken care of first and worry about how they're going to get paid after.

Aitch

In the UK the initial 'emergency' treatment is free for everyone no matter what their circumstances or where they come from. Once you're out of A&E that's when you have to start paying.

[elektrified]

This afternoon I hung around the Tops food court at KSK and basically did a high-class version of street begging (but limiting myself to people I know). I wasn't very successful in raising funds and was amazed to discover that many retired expats would be in a similar situation. I think many people are deluding themselves when they think that the Thai hospitals "have to" take care of them in case of an emergency. This hospital did just the minimum until the deposit was received.

If there are "many retired expats" who would be in a similar situation and couldn't raise US $6,500/Euro 4,600 to pay for their medical care then clearly Thailand must overhaul their Immigration policy because at some point these people will become to a burden to the Thai government. If some of these people don't have such little money as 200,000 THB socked away for an emergency then they should be living in their own country where they can have access to social services. I saw an elderly Western man yesterday near Pratu Thapae. He was very disheveled and appeared confused. He walking with a cane and was collecting cans and plastic bottles from the area near Black Canyon Coffee. It was very sad to see that.

And yes I agree that one member is seeing things through rose colored glasses. I saw some things at Suan Dok Hospital 2 years ago that are inconsistent with what he says.

[Mapguy]

Is this anonymous person from a country that has a social service network to take care of such a sad situation? Perhaps there is assistance from her government.

She is from the US and has had financial problems for some time. If she was willing to go home to the USA, she might get some help because of her age (?), but is dependent on the kindness of strangers here.

Ah! A fact, I gather. Another fact: Yes, in such a case, she will get help in the USA and help getting there. Yes, here, there is a fundamental problem. Most likely, she will have to change whatever lifestyle she has been fortunate to lead until recently if she stays. Thailand is most likely not the place for her any longer if her resources are that miniscule. Passing the hat isn't a solution. Sad, but true. I suggest calling the US Consulate NOW!

Edited July 29, 2011 by Mapguy

[muchogra]

NancyL, I feel sorry for your friend and hope she gets well soon.

At the same time, I'm also proud for your friend for having such a friend like you.

Close-knit families are hard to find these days. Perhaps it's got something to do

with these so-call "progress.

In any event, like some posters have suggested, a fund raising at the present moment

may be necessary to alleviate the problem at hand.

For me, I'll pitch in my bit of THB2,000, though small, if you just give me your account number

in your name. I will deposit it into your account.

I have read your posts in the forum and I trust you.

[Mapguy]

Thank you for everyone's interest. I knew it was a long-shot that anyone in the expat community might know of a beautiful young Thai lady who was distraught because she hit an elderly western lady who refused to accept her "tham bun". I know the amount of the funds probably were small, but every bit helps with this case.

The hospital required about 1/2 upfront. Yes, the total bill is anticipated to be in line with Mapguy's estimates, maybe a bit higher. She isn't able to travel until her situation is stabilized, so returning home isn't an immediate option. Once she returns home, she'd have to "make up" for all the time she hasn't been paying Medicare in order to receive Medicare payments. She came to Thailand after age 75, so it was impossible to get health insurance. It's my understanding that you can maintain health insurance after age 75, but you can't come on as a new customer after that age. Oh, and she's estranged from her daughters. I don't know why some find that strange or odd. Chiang Mai is full of elderly retirees estranged from their children. Doting grandmothers don't come here to retire (unless their grandkids are here!)

Thank you Millwall Fan, for the suggestion of a fund raiser. I think we will probably have to do just that to pay off the balance of the hospital bill.

This afternoon I hung around the Tops food court at KSK and basically did a high-class version of street begging (but limiting myself to people I know). I wasn't very successful in raising funds and was amazed to discover that many retired expats would be in a similar situation. I think many people are deluding themselves when they think that the Thai hospitals "have to" take care of them in case of an emergency. This hospital did just the minimum until the deposit was received. Also, it's wrong to think you can "always go home for care". You can't travel very far if your leg and hip are shattered because a couple of motorcycles hit you.

You are obviously a very caring person, but your solution doesn't make any sense.

Why do you feel it is not "strange or odd" for people as old as she (Over 75!) to go to Thailand when she is estranged from her children? What's that all about? That is nothing but self-delusion. Perhaps "Don't tread on me!" American individualism! Sad! Absurd!

I agree with your observation at Tops! There must be a lot of children of advanced age at the market or drinking beer in this town running away from home, family. Should they be able to find viable substitutes here? I seriously doubt it!

Anyway, it seems she needs to get back to America when she can be helped onto a plane. Best see how that works, not that the US Consulate will be happy to deal with her, but those people get paid for it. Nor will social service people if not her daughters who meet the plane be pleased. I guess it is her "family now.

In the meantime, let's just hope she recovers well from surgery! That's not easy for someone of her age. No fun for anyone of any age.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Mapguy

[NancyL]

Is this anonymous person from a country that has a social service network to take care of such a sad situation? Perhaps there is assistance from her government.

She is from the US and has had financial problems for some time. If she was willing to go home to the USA, she might get some help because of her age (?), but is dependent on the kindness of strangers here.

Ah! A fact, I gather. Another fact: Yes, in such a case, she will get help in the USA and help getting there. Yes, here, there is a fundamental problem. Most likely, she will have to change whatever lifestyle she has been fortunate to lead until recently if she stays. Thailand is most likely not the place for her any longer if her resources are that miniscule. Passing the hat isn't a solution. Sad, but true. I suggest calling the US Consulate NOW!

Oh good God! (I don't use that expression very often!) Of course, the U.S. consulate has been involved! They don't advance any funds unless they are guaranteed and they do a nice job of sending out emails and making phone calls to people in the U.S. who maybe could help. Come on -- haven't you done that grueling trip from the American midwest to Thailand? It's over 35 hours of plane travel and waiting around airports. You can't do that when your hip and leg are shattered! Passing the hat will get her out of her current condition and in shape to make "the crossing".

[NancyL]

NancyL, I feel sorry for your friend and hope she gets well soon.

At the same time, I'm also proud for your friend for having such a friend like you.

Close-knit families are hard to find these days. Perhaps it's got something to do

with these so-call "progress.

In any event, like some posters have suggested, a fund raising at the present moment

may be necessary to alleviate the problem at hand.

For me, I'll pitch in my bit of THB2,000, though small, if you just give me your account number

in your name. I will deposit it into your account.

I have read your posts in the forum and I trust you.

Thank you Muchogra! I will PM you with this poor lady's Bangkok Bank account info, not mine. Eventually, I think we will do a fund raising event, but that may take a few weeks to organize. You are so sweet!