Friend Unwisely Turned Down Payment For Accident

[Mapguy]

Is this anonymous person from a country that has a social service network to take care of such a sad situation? Perhaps there is assistance from her government.

She is from the US and has had financial problems for some time. If she was willing to go home to the USA, she might get some help because of her age (?), but is dependent on the kindness of strangers here.

Ah! A fact, I gather. Another fact: Yes, in such a case, she will get help in the USA and help getting there. Yes, here, there is a fundamental problem. Most likely, she will have to change whatever lifestyle she has been fortunate to lead until recently if she stays. Thailand is most likely not the place for her any longer if her resources are that miniscule. Passing the hat isn't a solution. Sad, but true. I suggest calling the US Consulate NOW!

Oh good God! (I don't use that expression very often!) Of course, the U.S. consulate has been involved! They don't advance any funds unless they are guaranteed and they do a nice job of sending out emails and making phone calls to people in the U.S. who maybe could help. Come on -- haven't you done that grueling trip from the American midwest to Thailand? It's over 35 hours of plane travel and waiting around airports. You can't do that when your hip and leg are shattered! Passing the hat will get her out of her current condition and in shape to make "the crossing".

Calm down! It has been a very hard day for you!

Of course she has to be in condition to travel. Long flights aren't fun in any case. Anyway, glad to know god is good!

You seem quite cynical about the US government. How responsible should a government be for the individual actions of its citizens? Not an American citizen disease, either. There seems to be a lot of whining from citizens of other countries who have emigrated to Thailand!

Edited July 29, 2011 by Mapguy

[muchogra]

NancyL, no problem if I get around knowing how to access my PM as I'm new here.

There's no need for your to coach me in the mean time since I believe I'll find my way.

I will deposit my little two grands next week.

Again, I applaud your kindness and endeavor for a friend in need!

[NancyL]

NancyL, no problem if I get around knowing how to access my PM as I'm new here.

There's no need for your to coach me in the mean time since I believe I'll find my way.

I will deposit my little two grands next week.

Again, I applaud your kindness and endeavor for a friend in need!

Thank you! I've PM'd account info for our friend in need.

[endure]

Thank you for everyone's interest. I knew it was a long-shot that anyone in the expat community might know of a beautiful young Thai lady who was distraught because she hit an elderly western lady who refused to accept her "tham bun". I know the amount of the funds probably were small, but every bit helps with this case.

The hospital required about 1/2 upfront. Yes, the total bill is anticipated to be in line with Mapguy's estimates, maybe a bit higher. She isn't able to travel until her situation is stabilized, so returning home isn't an immediate option. Once she returns home, she'd have to "make up" for all the time she hasn't been paying Medicare in order to receive Medicare payments. She came to Thailand after age 75, so it was impossible to get health insurance. It's my understanding that you can maintain health insurance after age 75, but you can't come on as a new customer after that age. Oh, and she's estranged from her daughters. I don't know why some find that strange or odd. Chiang Mai is full of elderly retirees estranged from their children. Doting grandmothers don't come here to retire (unless their grandkids are here!)

Thank you Millwall Fan, for the suggestion of a fund raiser. I think we will probably have to do just that to pay off the balance of the hospital bill.

This afternoon I hung around the Tops food court at KSK and basically did a high-class version of street begging (but limiting myself to people I know). I wasn't very successful in raising funds and was amazed to discover that many retired expats would be in a similar situation. I think many people are deluding themselves when they think that the Thai hospitals "have to" take care of them in case of an emergency. This hospital did just the minimum until the deposit was received. Also, it's wrong to think you can "always go home for care". You can't travel very far if your leg and hip are shattered because a couple of motorcycles hit you.

You are obviously a very caring person, but your solution doesn't make any sense.

Why do you feel it is not "strange or odd" for people as old as she (Over 75!) to go to Thailand when she is estranged from her children? What's that all about? That is nothing but self-delusion. Perhaps "Don't tread on me!" American individualism! Sad! Absurd!

I agree with your observation at Tops! There must be a lot of children of advanced age at the market or drinking beer in this town running away from home, family. Should they be able to find viable substitutes here? I seriously doubt it!

Anyway, it seems she needs to get back to America when she can be helped onto a plane. Best see how that works, not that the US Consulate will be happy to deal with her, but those people get paid for it. Nor will social service people if not her daughters who meet the plane be pleased. I guess it is her "family now.

In the meantime, let's just hope she recovers well from surgery! That's not easy for someone of her age. No fun for anyone of any age.

Has it occurred to you that someone who upped sticks at the age of 75 and moved half way round the world perhaps doesn't want to return to the USA? Perhaps she has no interest in her estranged daughters. These are decisions for her to make.

[NancyL]

Thank you for everyone's interest. I knew it was a long-shot that anyone in the expat community might know of a beautiful young Thai lady who was distraught because she hit an elderly western lady who refused to accept her "tham bun". I know the amount of the funds probably were small, but every bit helps with this case.

The hospital required about 1/2 upfront. Yes, the total bill is anticipated to be in line with Mapguy's estimates, maybe a bit higher. She isn't able to travel until her situation is stabilized, so returning home isn't an immediate option. Once she returns home, she'd have to "make up" for all the time she hasn't been paying Medicare in order to receive Medicare payments. She came to Thailand after age 75, so it was impossible to get health insurance. It's my understanding that you can maintain health insurance after age 75, but you can't come on as a new customer after that age. Oh, and she's estranged from her daughters. I don't know why some find that strange or odd. Chiang Mai is full of elderly retirees estranged from their children. Doting grandmothers don't come here to retire (unless their grandkids are here!)

Thank you Millwall Fan, for the suggestion of a fund raiser. I think we will probably have to do just that to pay off the balance of the hospital bill.

This afternoon I hung around the Tops food court at KSK and basically did a high-class version of street begging (but limiting myself to people I know). I wasn't very successful in raising funds and was amazed to discover that many retired expats would be in a similar situation. I think many people are deluding themselves when they think that the Thai hospitals "have to" take care of them in case of an emergency. This hospital did just the minimum until the deposit was received. Also, it's wrong to think you can "always go home for care". You can't travel very far if your leg and hip are shattered because a couple of motorcycles hit you.

You are obviously a very caring person, but your solution doesn't make any sense.

Why do you feel it is not "strange or odd" for people as old as she (Over 75!) to go to Thailand when she is estranged from her children? What's that all about? That is nothing but self-delusion. Perhaps "Don't tread on me!" American individualism! Sad! Absurd!

I agree with your observation at Tops! There must be a lot of children of advanced age at the market or drinking beer in this town running away from home, family. Should they be able to find viable substitutes here? I seriously doubt it!

Anyway, it seems she needs to get back to America when she can be helped onto a plane. Best see how that works, not that the US Consulate will be happy to deal with her, but those people get paid for it. Nor will social service people if not her daughters who meet the plane be pleased. I guess it is her "family now.

In the meantime, let's just hope she recovers well from surgery! That's not easy for someone of her age. No fun for anyone of any age.

Has it occurred to you that someone who upped sticks at the age of 75 and moved half way round the world perhaps doesn't want to return to the USA? Perhaps she has no interest in her estranged daughters. These are decisions for her to make.

You are so right! But it's difficult to make decisions for yourself when you haven't set aside "hit by a motorcyle" funds nor have adequate insurance. Remeber, Americans don't have much of a safety net, expecially when they've lived overseas for a while. Yes, I think she's found many friends in Thailand, but if they can't help her out, then she has very few choices.

[rizla]

Thank you for everyone's interest. I knew it was a long-shot that anyone in the expat community might know of a beautiful young Thai lady who was distraught because she hit an elderly western lady who refused to accept her "tham bun". I know the amount of the funds probably were small, but every bit helps with this case.

The hospital required about 1/2 upfront. Yes, the total bill is anticipated to be in line with Mapguy's estimates, maybe a bit higher. She isn't able to travel until her situation is stabilized, so returning home isn't an immediate option. Once she returns home, she'd have to "make up" for all the time she hasn't been paying Medicare in order to receive Medicare payments. She came to Thailand after age 75, so it was impossible to get health insurance. It's my understanding that you can maintain health insurance after age 75, but you can't come on as a new customer after that age. Oh, and she's estranged from her daughters. I don't know why some find that strange or odd. Chiang Mai is full of elderly retirees estranged from their children. Doting grandmothers don't come here to retire (unless their grandkids are here!)

Thank you Millwall Fan, for the suggestion of a fund raiser. I think we will probably have to do just that to pay off the balance of the hospital bill.

This afternoon I hung around the Tops food court at KSK and basically did a high-class version of street begging (but limiting myself to people I know). I wasn't very successful in raising funds and was amazed to discover that many retired expats would be in a similar situation. I think many people are deluding themselves when they think that the Thai hospitals "have to" take care of them in case of an emergency. This hospital did just the minimum until the deposit was received. Also, it's wrong to think you can "always go home for care". You can't travel very far if your leg and hip are shattered because a couple of motorcycles hit you.

You are obviously a very caring person, but your solution doesn't make any sense.

Why do you feel it is not "strange or odd" for people as old as she (Over 75!) to go to Thailand when she is estranged from her children? What's that all about? That is nothing but self-delusion. Perhaps "Don't tread on me!" American individualism! Sad! Absurd!

I agree with your observation at Tops! There must be a lot of children of advanced age at the market or drinking beer in this town running away from home, family. Should they be able to find viable substitutes here? I seriously doubt it!

Anyway, it seems she needs to get back to America when she can be helped onto a plane. Best see how that works, not that the US Consulate will be happy to deal with her, but those people get paid for it. Nor will social service people if not her daughters who meet the plane be pleased. I guess it is her "family now.

In the meantime, let's just hope she recovers well from surgery! That's not easy for someone of her age. No fun for anyone of any age.

Has it occurred to you that someone who upped sticks at the age of 75 and moved half way round the world perhaps doesn't want to return to the USA? Perhaps she has no interest in her estranged daughters. These are decisions for her to make.

Exactly, and when you make those kind of decisions, in most case you`re on your own...hard as it may seem...your chioce i suppose...but i hope she does recover well and without extra burdens..

[james24]

No offence Nancy but if your friend said no the first time then she should really leave it at that. Rather than embaressing her why dont you pay it?

[endure]

No offence Nancy but if your friend said no the first time then she should really leave it at that. Rather than embaressing her why dont you pay it?

Maybe because Nancy on her own doesn't have money to pay it? Do you have a few dollars to toss in the pot?

[bridge]

Terrible stuff. Hope she gets well very soon. Sounds like she has some good friends.

[babyjesus]

<<deleted>>

I will give 1k when I see you next week.

Edited July 30, 2011 by thaiphoon
Personal information relating to the OP removed.

[nivram4491]

No offence Nancy but if your friend said no the first time then she should really leave it at that. Rather than embaressing her why dont you pay it?

james24, you are the one that should be embarrassed and not only for your inability to spell.

From my observations NancyL is one of the most intelligent posters to this forum. She is trying to help a friend who has suffered an unfortunate serious accident. For all the smug posters I say shame on you. Maybe sometime in the future you may be in an unfortunate position where you need some help. You would be very lucky indeed to have a friend like Nancy trying to help you.

Health insurance in Thailand for anyone over 65 is extremely expensive. As far as I know it is in the 80,000 plus Baht per year (prepaid) range. For any one over 65, still in reasonably good health, it does not make economic sense to pay that much for health insurance in Chiang Mai.

Is there such a thing as accident only insurance in Thailand which does not sky rocket in price with increasing age for those over 65?

[Greenside]

For those of us who retired here before the economic downturn, interest and exchange rates falls coupled with the kind of inflation we're seeing in Thailand should be forcing a re-evaluation of our long term prospects. With no (or at best, limited) prospects for work, the question as to whether one can continue to live here long term is a difficult one to confront and I'll bet not many are willing to give up our lives to go home in the expectation of being supported by the State in a few years' time - always assuming you come from somewhere where that's even an option.

The whole issue of insurance, safety nets and the means to live here is one that could benefit from an airing but as far as I'm concerned it's in danger of getting needlessly personal and inappropriate in this thread at a time when the unfortunate victim is lying in hospital not knowing either the outcome of the surgery or how she's going to cover the costs and continue with her life.

[Fishenough]

She is doing well in recovery from surgery, and even had a good appetite this morning.

Feisty as ever and keeping the staff on there toes, plus it seems there'll be a good number of regular visitors. Here's hoping her stay is a comfortable one.

[Mapguy]

Sounds like good news.

I have a question or two. I thought that the USA has national health care programs to take care of the elderly, even those who have little income. And don't the retired get government pensions? That's part of what the American politicians are arguing about, isn't it? Some say the government spends too much, and some say it is not enough. Sounds like most countries actually.

[DiamondKing]

Well that seems rather cheap and the next time I have an accident I will request to go the Rajivet instead of Ram where the cost of repairing my broken Leg (5 places) cracked hip cost me 380,000 baht so I would love to of only paid 150,000.

one thing I will say this lady at her age has some serious rehab ahead of her I'm 18 months in and still aint right.

I wish her the best

DK

[JohnLee]

Do you have any rough idea how much the bill will be Nancy? or how much the hospital want in advance? Rajavej's fees are very reasonable. Maybe we could do some fund raising.

Seems to me there is a lot of skirting the real issue here re. helping the poor lass out of her immediate fix. The best suggestion/idea/offer came from millwall_fan (seconded by Nancy). And he is probably as well placed as any to start the ball rolling, as long as we are not oblidged to visit his establishment personnaly to donate, I will certainly drop a bob or two into the 'Box'. Over to you 'Mr. Starter'

[Lancelot]

I just wanted to say that I wish the BIB would stop concentrating on stopping people for not wearing helmets (if they are hurt it's their own fault), but concentrate their resources on stopping people to check if they have any insurance in case they hurt someone else!

Never going to happen-follow the money (bribe reference)

Feel so sorry for the elderly lady hurt in the accident. Thailand can be a great place- but not with out money...

[Joop50]

Like I mentioned before, I support the Millwall_fan option and pm me the info too Nancy. When only 100 of us donate 2k, this problem is solved. Good to read the lady recovers well and great she has a friend like Nancy and some others.

[james24]

No offence Nancy but if your friend said no the first time then she should really leave it at that. Rather than embaressing her why dont you pay it?

james24, you are the one that should be embarrassed and not only for your inability to spell.

From my observations NancyL is one of the most intelligent posters to this forum. She is trying to help a friend who has suffered an unfortunate serious accident. For all the smug posters I say shame on you. Maybe sometime in the future you may be in an unfortunate position where you need some help. You would be very lucky indeed to have a friend like Nancy trying to help you.

Health insurance in Thailand for anyone over 65 is extremely expensive. As far as I know it is in the 80,000 plus Baht per year (prepaid) range. For any one over 65, still in reasonably good health, it does not make economic sense to pay that much for health insurance in Chiang Mai.

Is there such a thing as accident only insurance in Thailand which does not sky rocket in price with increasing age for those over 65?

Oh wow you spotted a spelling mistake, what great debating skills you have.

Yes Nancy you do seem like a good friend and even more respect if you paid that amoun of money already. My point is you cant really re-ask someone to pay for something if you've refused it. As for chipping some money in, it would be interesting to see how many self-righteous people on their keyboards actually do something and make a donation, I guess not even 2.

[fcgprg]

Like I mentioned before, I support the Millwall_fan option and pm me the info too Nancy. When only 100 of us donate 2k, this problem is solved. Good to read the lady recovers well and great she has a friend like Nancy and some others.

That is a good idea i would donate 2K towards the lady .

[thaiphoon]

The moderators/administrators have been discussing this thread and, whilst we have sympathy for the victim, discussion of fund raising activities is against the forum rules.

However, we will allow this thread to remain open, for the time being, on the basis that it is used as a mechanism to update members on the victim’s progress.

Furthermore, should members wish to nominate a Thaivisa member to spearhead a fundraising scheme, we will allow that member name to be posted on the forum. All further discussion about fund raising should be done through the nominated member by PM (additional members can be added to the PM thread). Any further posts on this subject in the open forum will be removed without notice.

Thank you for your understanding and co-operation.

//Admin

[babyjesus]

I understand we must follow forum rules. So is NancyL the person to PM if one wants to contribute or participate in a fund raiser?

[millwall_fan]

Do you have any rough idea how much the bill will be Nancy? or how much the hospital want in advance? Rajavej's fees are very reasonable. Maybe we could do some fund raising.

Seems to me there is a lot of skirting the real issue here re. helping the poor lass out of her immediate fix. The best suggestion/idea/offer came from millwall_fan (seconded by Nancy). And he is probably as well placed as any to start the ball rolling, as long as we are not oblidged to visit his establishment personnaly to donate, I will certainly drop a bob or two into the 'Box'. Over to you 'Mr. Starter'

The moderators/administrators have been discussing this thread and, whilst we have sympathy for the victim, discussion of fund raising activities is against the forum rules.

However, we will allow this thread to remain open, for the time being, on the basis that it is used as a mechanism to update members on the victim's progress.

Furthermore, should members wish to nominate a Thaivisa member to spearhead a fundraising scheme, we will allow that member name to be posted on the forum. All further discussion about fund raising should be done through the nominated member by PM (additional members can be added to the PM thread). Any further posts on this subject in the open forum will be removed without notice.

Thank you for your understanding and co-operation.

//Admin

so rather confusing! I am happy to host a single event fundraiser here at The Olde Bell one night in the near future - which would necessitate you coming here JohnLee- or you can use one of our bank accounts as a repository for donations. (I do know NancyL pretty well). Or if you prefer to organise something yourself Nancy, I will offer you whatever support I can and donate prizes etc. It seems TV will only allow one 'front-person'. It's your call Nancy!

<<deleted>>

Edited July 31, 2011 by thaiphoon
Comments attacking another member have been removed

[moe666]

NancyL, PM me I will donate some money for her care

[moe666]

Sounds like good news.

I have a question or two. I thought that the USA has national health care programs to take care of the elderly, even those who have little income. And don't the retired get government pensions? That's part of what the American politicians are arguing about, isn't it? Some say the government spends too much, and some say it is not enough. Sounds like most countries actually.

We have medicare at 65 but it is of no use overseas as there is no coverage. Also to your earlier post about contacting the US Embassy they are not a charitable organization and will not help you if it envolves money. People have a false sense of secutiy about what the Embassy or consulate will do. I think this stem from the few high profile cases of flying people home amid chaos in foreign countries well this treatment is limited to few and far between, it's not avaliable to the one off retiree sick, or injured unless your relative works for some high up ex-elected official. The difference being the 3 hikers in Iran and the news reporters in North Korea. Two of the hikers still in Jail the reporters released because the ones sister worked for Al Gore I believe.

As often repeated here if you donot have the money Thailand is not the place for you, no matter how cheap it may appear.

[NancyL]

Yes Nancy you do seem like a good friend and even more respect if you paid that amoun of money already. My point is you cant really re-ask someone to pay for something if you've refused it.

OK, I finally got it! Yes, you do have a point about whether it's right to "re-ask someone to pay for something if you've refused it". OK, you make a good point. My friend in need said, oh no, honey, I don't want your money. Does she get a pass because she spoke while in pain, under the influence of morphine and six hours distant from having a couple of motorcyle run over her? How can anyone be expected to make a sound judgement in that situation. If that sorrowful young Thai lady really wanted to make tham bun, she should have stopped by the cashiers office at the hospital.

You're right, my friend will never see that money again, but I don't think it's wrong to try to ask for it again.

Edited July 30, 2011 by NancyL

[NancyL]

Do you have any rough idea how much the bill will be Nancy? or how much the hospital want in advance? Rajavej's fees are very reasonable. Maybe we could do some fund raising.

Seems to me there is a lot of skirting the real issue here re. helping the poor lass out of her immediate fix. The best suggestion/idea/offer came from millwall_fan (seconded by Nancy). And he is probably as well placed as any to start the ball rolling, as long as we are not oblidged to visit his establishment personnaly to donate, I will certainly drop a bob or two into the 'Box'. Over to you 'Mr. Starter'

The moderators/administrators have been discussing this thread and, whilst we have sympathy for the victim, discussion of fund raising activities is against the forum rules.

However, we will allow this thread to remain open, for the time being, on the basis that it is used as a mechanism to update members on the victim's progress.

Furthermore, should members wish to nominate a Thaivisa member to spearhead a fundraising scheme, we will allow that member name to be posted on the forum. All further discussion about fund raising should be done through the nominated member by PM (additional members can be added to the PM thread). Any further posts on this subject in the open forum will be removed without notice.

Thank you for your understanding and co-operation.

//Admin

so rather confusing! I am happy to host a single event fundraiser here at The Olde Bell one night in the near future - which would necessitate you coming here JohnLee- or you can use one of our bank accounts as a repository for donations. (I do know NancyL pretty well). Or if you prefer to organise something yourself Nancy, I will offer you whatever support I can and donate prizes etc. It seems TV will only allow one 'front-person'. It's your call Nancy!

<<deleted>>

I've asked the mods for clarification about what we can and cannot discuss. We can update on the victim's status. We can discuss the American social security and medicare, provided we don't express inflamatory opinions (can you go along with this Mapguy?) We can make expats aware that this could happen to them; do they have a plan in place? I'm still a little unclear on the part about "nominating" someone to spearhead a fundraising campaign using PMs. I've asked for clarification if I can nominate myself.

[roger1999]

I haven't read this thread all the way through. A penniless friend of mine (from the USA) had a major accident here five years ago and had no money to pay. He had a return ticket to the USA and was able to board a flight in a wheelchair. Once in the USA either Mediacaid or Medicare took care of it from there. He may have needed to declare bankruptcy first, I'm not sure. Not sure if this is an option for the lady in question.

[NancyL]

To clarify the American social security and medicare system for those from other countries -- Yes, most Americans do receive Social Security retirement benefits if they've worked more than 10 years and contributed above a certain level. The bar isn't very high and most American workers qualify. The problem is that the amount of the payment can sustain life, with lean days toward the end of the month, but it doesn't allow anyone to build up a "hit by a motorcycle" account. Unlike our cousins across the pond, the Americans do give expats the same increases received by recipients in the U.S. Trouble is no one has received increases for a couple of years. We all know what's happened to exchange rates and price inflation, especially food prices in Thailand.

With Medicare, an American can elect not to pay for the "optional" parts of the coverage and many expats don't, because Medicare won't pay for foreign care. (Unlike the excellent retirement medical system enjoyed by career American military people who can visit CM Ram with all bills paid) Once an expat returns to the U.S., they are expected to "catch up" and pay for the missed portion of their optional coverage, but with a penalty. So, if my friend in need were to return to the U.S. the only medical care she'd receive immediately upon arrival is for hospitalization. For anything else, -- like drugs, doctor visits, nursing home, etc -- she'd have to cough up a pretty hefty sum of money before they'd enroll her again.

Yes, it's a system with some flaws. It's better than nothing. It's creating a lot of "discussion" in the U.S. now. But, with my friend in need, we have to deal with "it is what it is".

[NancyL]

I haven't read this thread all the way through. A penniless friend of mine (from the USA) had a major accident here five years ago and had no money to pay. He had a return ticket to the USA and was able to board a flight in a wheelchair. Once in the USA either Mediacaid or Medicare took care of it from there. He may have needed to declare bankruptcy first, I'm not sure. Not sure if this is an option for the lady in question.

Yes, possibly this may be an option, but she has to be well enough to travel. She is a long-term expat, so she doesn't have a return ticket and would need to "catch up" with her Medicare payments before she could go into a nursing home there. Bankruptcy is definitely an option. My parents did it. It's nothing to be ashamed about.