Be Prepared

[saipanman]

Another bright idea would be to move to a cheaper house/apartement, skip the car use a motorcycle instead. I live comfortable with 35K per month, as I think many other expats do.

can you tell me do you pay rent and if so where is cheap??

hanging out in bkk with a 60k is do-able but be wary of daily expenses...and there are deals to be had in the apts...it depends on your need...a one bedroom, nice, new,great location..maybe 50sqm may go for 20k a month but you can find the same by getting on the ground and talking the deal and by paying cash up front for as low as 10k ...maybe even 100k advance for the year at a 200k yr flat .....if you want a simple flat studio obviously u can get those for as little as 1500 a month...but thats not a real confortable living...many Thais do it because they work-n-save...if u want to have a decent existance on 60k you can do it...but you'll have to become sort of Thai at some point....love the food, the country, the people, the traditions, and respect the religion, you could also pay up front by buying a flat for a couple hundred thousand baht and then just live in it...but again...thats a small one. I did but two small ones at different times, both around 6k US at the time...sold both for a profit years later, now I live upcountry and bought those sort of pre-fab Thai teak houses and put them on our land...its pretty cool...no real expenses aafter that...power and food comes to about 20k a month and it seems like Im feeding everyone...lol but I like that...so in the end you'll have to adjust on 60k but it is do-able....those that live on the 500dollar US a month...may be surviving...but I needed a better existance......that hassle of the visa runs, the money in the bank issues, those can all be worked out easy enough, medical is fine with local services, but I do weel to read more about medicines and just educate myself more in my free time about illnesses and treatments etc.....if you can get on a company plan from work that allows you to go to Bumrungrad hospital that would be badass...but just stay healthy live a good life and keep ur expenses down.....

[saipanman]

whatever you do...talk her out of the car.....there are so many nice cars in Thailand for cheap its not even funny....if shes talking about driving before dying...make sure you have a really great insurance policy on the car...as surely when everyone finds out the new car is on the road the motorcycles will line up to run into the new driver to start collecting their own money as compensation.....just take her to a host of the second hand car lots....let the Thai delaers explain why its a better option....thats what they're good at....and i do beleive theres validity in the statement that when the money runs out the girl is gone.....all love aside....

[coolhandjoe]

What Jeff says

Hospital free for Thai person. Thai person not NEED go private, but might WANT.

Difference between 'want' and 'need' with dental work. Work need usually cheap, work want cosmetic, expensive.

I find tell wife I NEED 40k per month for me, if can pay for you to then good, if can not pay for you to then goodbye.

(I also support MIL, teen step daughter and new son from that amount)

My lifestyle not low, but I live with what have, wife live with what have (Did pay for wife private room when have baby at Thai hospital, 3 night @800bht).

Learn to live within budget, teach wife to live within budget. Else find cheaper wife or send wife to work.

Very few Thai have money manage skill, never think beyond next week. This you job.

Yes she will run you out of money if you let her, then most likely she move on.

I see this happen to foreigner many time. Foreigner with limited money can be very silly.

Sorry no sympathy, 40k a month more than most Thai family have.

(Do have sympathy for you medical expense, but find cheaper drug, change eating habit to control diabetes)

(current rate 48bht to pound, why you get 46?)

PS

2YO Honda Click 25,000bht

New Proton 4 door auto 460,000bht (9k UKP)

If not rich person don't buy 750,000bht car

Superb reply and advice!

[Soutpeel]

Murgatroyd, I can help you to reduce your medical expenses very significantly. Your first reaction may be to ignore the advice, but before you do, please research the suggestions. There is plenty of information on the internet about them.

1. 35% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide....

Hydrogen Peroxide - now it has been mentioned - really is a very good and natural product for many purposes.

However fairly or totally harmless in small doses, do not be become fanatic. Do your research and you will find quite a lot of usefull information on the Internet.

Many countries, including many states in USA, use Hydrogen Peroxide to clean water (instead of chlorine). The chemical formula is H2O2, which is water with an extra oxygen atom. The oxidation cleans and kill bacteria. Hydrogen peroxide therefore is better for cleaning than chlorine and completely harmless. NASA use a hydrogen peroxide generating system in space to clean water and a semilar system is available - down at this planet - for chlorine free swimming pools. Aluminium containers for food are cleaned with hydrogen peroxide (food grade) and hospitals are using it as a sterilant.

In health, hydrogen peroxide has a semilar oxidation effect as vitamin C. Recent studies are described in Nature and Wikipedia has a quite comprehensive article.

However, be aware of the 35% solution - which is clean and therefore food grade, compared to 3% and 6% solutions - but also very caustic (have to be thinned). In cleaner solutions hydrogen peroxide is a part for explosives (the 2005 London bombs) or rocket fuel.

Hydrogen peroxide 35% - which can be obtained in 1 ltr. bottles from some of the Thai pharmacies - is actually very good to clean water systems and wells.

As tailspin wrote: "Bartender...one vodka and peroxide please...." may well be a very healthy cure - but for me: Please mix the vodka with something and add only a dash of HP;o)

Hydrogen Peroxide is any concentration is commonly know as bleach or rocket fuel and is caustic in any concentration, there is absolutely no scienfitic/medical evidence that there are any medical benefits of ingesting HP, whether drinking it or sniffing it ...!!!.....its all hippy dippy/new age rubblish.

Hydrogen Peroxide is not "good" and natural product.....its produced industrially.....no such thing as "organic" hydrogen peroxide.....drink it or sniff it at your peril....

[thaiedward]

If we can find a reliable 2nd hand car for around the 100,000 baht mark then I'll consider it. Even then I'm a bit dubious about it as 2nd hand cars tend to require a lot of repairs as various bits of them seize up.

Before buying my wife the business, I had tried giving my wife some money, (30,000 Baht), so that she had spending money of her own. (This was nearly four years ago, when cash wasn't so tight). Within a few months her family ( the sister) had borrowed the lot, never to be seen again.

Hi Murgatroyd,

You seem to be mostly on the right path, but I'd like to suggest a few things.

Firstly, and most importantly : find someone (preferably a Westerner who you can therefore speak to easily ) who knows a lot about secondhand cars and the buying thereof, and check out any prospective purchase VERY carefully. Thai people are not always diligent about maintenance. When you find one, beat the price down fairly mercilessly, as sellers usually have expectations that are too high, and every secondhand car I've bought has needed a fair bit of work within the first year of my owning it.

If the sister is giving you flak about your wife not signing for their loan, just mention the 30,000 baht they still owe you. Why should it be a gift, if originally it was a loan ? ( To be fair though, the word "loan" here, particularly in-family, means something quite different here from what it means in Western countries ).

You need to gently explain a little more to your wife that she needs to be more realistic and grown-up about certain things. My wife is quite child-like in certain ways, which is very cute and endearing, but I'm having to point out to her that her wanting to buy an expensive mobile to replace the one she dropped is really a wish for status and both unnecessary and expensive. It's taking me a while to get this concept from her subconscious to her conscious mind.

Despite Will27's post seeming a little blunt, I think that there is some truth in what he says, on some level. Your wife may not be consciously be trying to take advantage of you, but she seems to have unrealistic expectations, possibly because you have supplied her and certain family members with so much already. To re-state what many other guys have said before, Thai people often think of us Farangs as bottomless pits when it comes to money, even when we protest that we are not. _They seem to think it is all just words_.

They have to be shown when there REALLY IS a limit. Perhaps you can explain and show in very simple terms exactly what a budget is, and what happens when it is not followed. Then get a Thai person to tell her the same.

Good luck !

Hi LD:

In the first-place, we thank you for your sensitive and cogent post (best-of-thread, imho).

Secondly, some of us are suitably-impressed to 'hear' your raising-up the relationship factor between the conscious and subconscious mind which most of us possess.

It's most likely, LD, you're aware that decades ago, "Self Talk" represented a pathway for the conscious mind to influence the subconscious through a simple, disciplined process: repetition of one's objective(s) in all three persons (I, you, he/she your name here) into a tape recorder and then listening to one's own voice even while sleeping. And, after a month or so, the subcon begins to influence the conscious mind to do the 'right' thing.

Finally, self-talk has been adopted by the APA/AMA and re-defined as cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) much as the AKC might bestow its blessings upon a mongrel breed of dog: e.g., Jack Russell Terriers.

Hope to read more posts like yours.

Regards

[Penkoprod]

Every problem has a solution. Firstly I stuck the required 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank several years ago, not only does it earn interest but I don't need to worry about fluctuations in my income. As to a home, I bought two old houses next to each other, through my partner of course, 300 KBaht each, for a further expenditure of 150 kBaht each I rebuilt and modernised them, I now have 8 rooms, and two toilet/bathrooms, a large patio, two small patios and a small garden, all for 900,000 Baht. My partner also makes dresses, it keeps her in pocket money. I pay all the bills, electricity, water, phone, Internet, food and support 9 cats.

I also am a type 2 diabetic, diagnosed last year, the drug of choice - gliclazide is very cheap, £1.80 for 28 tablets in England, about the same in Thailand. However a small glass of bitter gourd juice every day will do the same job and is cheap to make, cinnamon is also effective. A diabetic diet is no more expensive than a normal diet and all the main stores sell sucralose sweetener. The real difference is you have to cook and eat in-house, ready cooked Thai food is full of sugar.

Why do you need a car? We use a mixture of song tauws, buses, taxis and bicycles, healthier and less stressful.

My basic income in England is about £1000 per month bottom line, sometimes it touches £1200, I shift £500 to Thailand every month via the Internet it costs me about £3.59 per transfer, I never need to contact my British bank, either in person or any other way, Internet banking is available to me in both countries.

Frankly I think you are going about things the wrong way, or your wife is leading you by the nose. As to supporting two kids, I informally support half a dozen kids in my village, feed, clothe and pay their school bus fares, the costs just get lost in the general household budget, as does the 3000 Baht per month tea money to the local police, and contributions to the village social life.

A few questions, if i may:

1) You saying you manage on approx. 24000 per month in Thailand and leaving the rest in UK (?)?

2) Is that just for you and your partner?

3) How are you managing to shift £500 per month, via the internet, for the princely sum of £3.59

(I think we ALL would like to know how the answer to number 3, lol!!!! )

Penkoprod

Edited August 8, 2011 by Penkoprod

[scotbeve]

and talk about it or go home !

Nice to see there are compassionate people on TV......

Rather than seeking advice on TV, think he has illustrated even with decent forward planning, things can go down the toilet pretty quickly...

I can see this degenerating into bi-monthly Cheap Charlie thread, where are resident cheap charlies out do each other on who can spend the least....

So let me open the bidding....my monthly budget is THB 200,000/m and these days, I just dont know how to make ends meet these days in Thailand....

Indeed Soup!!! My living expenses are close to 300,000 per month and expect them to rise at least another 20% within 8 years. Oh well, time to suck it up.... Careful budget work to consider.

300K a month? Then your understanding and grip of money is as good as most Thai ladies.

Tanaka,

No typo - it works out 280 - 300 K / month. And yes, my wife has done very well with our accounts. There is indeed the top end expenses I'm referring to. Intl. schools, donations and scholarships, eating out at expensive places twice or thrice a week, insurance, maintenance of 2 houses & soon-to-come-on-line rubber farms, investments, parties and socializing. It's a lifestyle I've created for my (very immediate) family and will continue to do so until I retire (then costs will halve. Getting back to the OP's topic - yes, one could live on 40K/month if one lives carefully / frugally.

[Ulysses G.]

yes, one could live on 40K/month if one lives carefully / frugally.

I can live pretty well on that, but I am single and want to stay that way.

[aneliane]

For your diabete, have you considered vegan diet ? It is especially beneficial for type 2.

I think everybody is trying to tell you to be a bit more budget conscious, it goes the same for your body.

Your health is what should come first

Edited August 8, 2011 by aneliane

[Wallaby]

Tanaka,

No typo - it works out 280 - 300 K / month. And yes, my wife has done very well with our accounts. There is indeed the top end expenses I'm referring to. Intl. schools, donations and scholarships, eating out at expensive places twice or thrice a week, insurance, maintenance of 2 houses & soon-to-come-on-line rubber farms, investments, parties and socializing. It's a lifestyle I've created for my (very immediate) family and will continue to do so until I retire (then costs will halve. Getting back to the OP's topic - yes, one could live on 40K/month if one lives carefully / frugally.

Is your wife Thai? If so, do you think she will accept a 50% reduction in her spending or look for greener pastures.

[Eff1n2ret]

3) How are you managing to shift £500 per month, via the internet, for the princely sum of £3.59

(I think we ALL would like to know how the answer to number 3, lol!!!! )

Penkoprod

That sounds like the sort of cost to do a transfer via Moneybookers - www.moneybookers.com - I used to go through them, but the snag is that all their transactions are in Euros, so uploading from a sterling account you take one hit on the exchange rate, and then paying into a Thai bank you take another hit. You've no control over these rates, and I found that the nett receipt in baht represented a pretty poor exchange for the original sterling amount, and overall quite expensive.

[scotbeve]

For your diabete, have you considered vegan diet ? It is especially beneficial for type 2.

I think everybody is trying to tell you to be a bit more budget conscious, it goes the same for your body.

Your health is what should come first

And I agree loads of veggies - we're in the right country to do so... One doesn't have to be a complete vegan though.... One can splurge and have meat once a week. Then there's oily fish another good health food.

[seancbk]

I know i was shocked , is it possibly a typing error and he only meant to put 30k ?

Depends on so many factors.

How old you are

Married or single

Whether you are working here

Whether you are living on a pension or savings from overseas

Whether you have kids at school here

Where in Thailand you are living

What you consider an acceptable standard of living

If you want to live in central Bangkok (between Sukhumvit 50 and Sukhumvit 4 approx) and you want a decent sized place (minimum 100 sq/m) then you will be paying from 40K to well over 100K a month for rent.

Decent international schools for your teenage kids are very expensive apparently (I don't have kids so can't give you figures).

If you have kids then one would assume you have a wife too and unless you've married someone from a poor family then she's going to want to shop in Paragon etc.

Of course if you have kids and depending then a 100 sq/m (2 bedroom) place is nowhere near big enough so better add another 100K for a suitably sized abode.

Don't forget all the little things because they really add up - Add an iphone 4 (or 5 soon) for every member of the household (don't forget to included the maid and your driver so you can reach them easily) - Lets assume 2 kids, you and the wife, maid, driver that's 6 phone accounts that need paying for.

Dinner out with the wife and friends twice a week to top restaurants, followed by drinks at Bed Supper Club or Spasso - easily top 100K a month

Couple of nights out with your business associates each week - 10K a night give or take.

Golf course fees

Country club fees for the family

Holiday home somewhere else in Thailand so you can get out of Bangkok now and again

Foreign holidays for the family to get out of Thailand now and again (shopping trips to HK and Singapore for the wife every couple of months for example)

Cars

etc etc

Frankly I don't know how he manages to live on as little as 300K a month.

You can't even buy a decent Patek Philippe timepiece for that.

Buying everyone an i phone 4 , and eating out with drinks twice a week for £500 , 10k a night with buisness associates ! if your throwing money away like that i have no sympathy for you !

Raven0099,

I was trying to demonstrate that if you have the money and choose to live a really good life in Bangkok then its easily possible to spend well over 300K baht a month.

When people express surprise at how much some people spend and start claiming they can live on so much less it begins to get ridiculous. Of course some people earn more and spend more and of course people on limited incomes try to spend as little as they can.

Of course there is an element of 'bragging' going on by both camps - the look how much I have that I can seemingly throw money around camp and the I can live so frugally I only need a tin hut and a spoon to be happy crowd.

The simple fact is that most (not all) of the older gentlemen (and yes probably many of the younger members) here probably never earned salaries in the range of 600K- 1.2mill baht a month in their lifetimes. Therefore they cannot comprehend of someone that does.

I know people earning far more than that a month albeit not living in Thailand. One of my Chinese friends bought a house in Phuket for 150 million baht which he uses perhaps for 6 weeks of the year. His home in Hong Kong is a serviced apartment which he's lived in for 10 years paying almost 300K baht a month for.

By the same token people earning (or having significant savings and investments) also cannot comprehend only being able to shuffle down to some grotty beer bar once a week and sit nursing a few large bottles of Leo.

And just so you know, I have lived on 400K a month and I've lived on 10K a month for a while. Its not that hard to live in Thailand on very little, but it also isn't exactly enjoyable either.

[scotbeve]

I know i was shocked , is it possibly a typing error and he only meant to put 30k ?

Depends on so many factors.

How old you are

Married or single

Whether you are working here

Whether you are living on a pension or savings from overseas

Whether you have kids at school here

Where in Thailand you are living

What you consider an acceptable standard of living

If you want to live in central Bangkok (between Sukhumvit 50 and Sukhumvit 4 approx) and you want a decent sized place (minimum 100 sq/m) then you will be paying from 40K to well over 100K a month for rent.

Decent international schools for your teenage kids are very expensive apparently (I don't have kids so can't give you figures).

If you have kids then one would assume you have a wife too and unless you've married someone from a poor family then she's going to want to shop in Paragon etc.

Of course if you have kids and depending then a 100 sq/m (2 bedroom) place is nowhere near big enough so better add another 100K for a suitably sized abode.

Don't forget all the little things because they really add up - Add an iphone 4 (or 5 soon) for every member of the household (don't forget to included the maid and your driver so you can reach them easily) - Lets assume 2 kids, you and the wife, maid, driver that's 6 phone accounts that need paying for.

Dinner out with the wife and friends twice a week to top restaurants, followed by drinks at Bed Supper Club or Spasso - easily top 100K a month

Couple of nights out with your business associates each week - 10K a night give or take.

Golf course fees

Country club fees for the family

Holiday home somewhere else in Thailand so you can get out of Bangkok now and again

Foreign holidays for the family to get out of Thailand now and again (shopping trips to HK and Singapore for the wife every couple of months for example)

Cars

etc etc

Frankly I don't know how he manages to live on as little as 300K a month.

You can't even buy a decent Patek Philippe timepiece for that.

Buying everyone an i phone 4 , and eating out with drinks twice a week for £500 , 10k a night with buisness associates ! if your throwing money away like that i have no sympathy for you !

Raven0099,

I was trying to demonstrate that if you have the money and choose to live a really good life in Bangkok then its easily possible to spend well over 300K baht a month.

When people express surprise at how much some people spend and start claiming they can live on so much less it begins to get ridiculous. Of course some people earn more and spend more and of course people on limited incomes try to spend as little as they can.

Of course there is an element of 'bragging' going on by both camps - the look how much I have that I can seemingly throw money around camp and the I can live so frugally I only need a tin hut and a spoon to be happy crowd.

The simple fact is that most (not all) of the older gentlemen (and yes probably many of the younger members) here probably never earned salaries in the range of 600K- 1.2mill baht a month in their lifetimes. Therefore they cannot comprehend of someone that does.

I know people earning far more than that a month albeit not living in Thailand. One of my Chinese friends bought a house in Phuket for 150 million baht which he uses perhaps for 6 weeks of the year. His home in Hong Kong is a serviced apartment which he's lived in for 10 years paying almost 300K baht a month for.

By the same token people earning (or having significant savings and investments) also cannot comprehend only being able to shuffle down to some grotty beer bar once a week and sit nursing a few large bottles of Leo.

And just so you know, I have lived on 400K a month and I've lived on 10K a month for a while. Its not that hard to live in Thailand on very little, but it also isn't exactly enjoyable either.

Seancbk,

I've found quite a few people living here that have lived on both ends of the spectrum. Myself being one. During a slow year (long ago), I only worked 89 days and this equated to 40,000 per month. This was pre-kids though.....

[klikster]

Not necessarily meant to be advice, but ..

I tend to be a realist and a bit of a b*stard. My approach to a situation would be a heart-to-heart "sit down".

"Tirak, things are not going well for me. I think I may have to go back to Farangland and start working again. Since I won't be living here, it wouldn't be fair if I ask you to wait for me. After all, you do have some health problems, and I don't want you to be lonely.

"So maybe it's better for both of us if you find a new husband. And a Thai man will understand you better than I do. I have already bought you a business so you should be able to take care of yourself until you find a new husband.

"I don't know how long I will need to stay in the west, and I will be sad. But this way is better for both of us."

If your Thai is not good enough .. or even if it is .. write it down. Get a good translation and give it to her to read (and probably show to sister). Take a few days off to Bangkok or Chiang Mai. But the most important thing is to be willing to walk away. A relationship is bilateral.

Ref the dental work, My wife just got a scaling and 5 cavities filled at Srinakarin Hospital in Khon Kaen. Bus fare was about Bt 800 (stayed with relatives), bill was Bt 600.

[Bard]

This is a good topic and highlights a hidden problem in Thailand, it's not as cheap as you may think.

If you are single you control your life and the expenses yourself and let's face it you don't need that much until you are sick, or if you have a Thai health insurance and get sick. Then you will see how expensive this can end up. For a lot of Europeans now, beware some of the European governments have revamped the laws, so if you do live abroad you will not be liable for medical care even if you suddenly decide to move home with your newfound sickness. You are on your own... One person in Pattaya got AIDS and he got no help when returning, he would have to pay this himself and obviously returned and died not long after in Camillian in Thailand. Another example is a guy who got cancer, his Thai health insurance was up for renewal and they refused him to renew. A total failure in his economy, loans from family and friends back home got him over it but a life in misery without money followed.

The worst of this is that foreigners in Thailand drink more then home, exercise less then home, have a lot of sex with high risk prostitutes and to put it mildly live an extremely high risk life for there own health and well being.

For those who on top of this have a wife or partner the expenses can easily double (unless you are a total dick who think only of himself), I am sick and tired of reading all the comments about Thai women think of everyone more than the falang, they prefer gold and glitter over there husband etc. This is a lot to do with the falang married to the other part, the falang go out party every night, fool around, talk bad about the Thai people and the women, complain and expect the women to be home take care of them like babies and on top of it feel they deserve full attention and love from the women. Grow up and treat the women as you want them to treat you or live with a other part which loath you but stay in to not loose out, until she can take no more and try to hit you back.

If you do have children the expenses will really mount up, IF you want your children to have the same stand point as yourself the day they leave home. Because you cannot put the kids in public school or even Thai private school if you want them on your level, you need to get them through international school, then send them out for higher education so they can either stay overseas or come to Thailand as well educated people with proper jobs, proper income and proper life. Should you be one of the people who cannot afford this cost you should decide to move home with the kids so they can get the best of life as well. Or should you be one of the dicks as above, and just bang them through the Thai system and see your kids end up in the ordinary Thai life bracket living (in our own eyes) in crap conditions you won't give a shit anyway, all you see is you.

Kids easily cost you 500 000 Baht each or more a year in International school.

To live a proper life in Thailand is expensive, to stay in a place where your hobbies (except drinking) will cost you a lot of money, to keep healthy is not cheap or easy it is a challenge.

I lived in Thailand for 12 years, but at the end with a very high Offshore salary I kicked it in, my kid cost me then over 600 000 baht in school, the insurances and the interest of everyone (hobbies and sport) mounted up, good healthy food and lifestyle was expensive and calculating it all I was better off moving back to Europe, it cost me less for a better lifestyle. So that was my decision, we moved back to a cheaper Europe.

Some friends live cheaper in Thailand though, they are single and young, or just dicks. Others struggle there hardest to do the best with limited means, and if they open there eyes and let go they may be better off other places.

There is no answer, just the idea to beware prior to moving to Thailand is good. There is also no answer of how to live, that is up to the person living and nothing is right or wrong unless you hurt others with your lifestyle.

[raven0099]

I dont think you have to spend a load of money to keep healthy , eat a balanced diet , dont smoke , drink in moderation , dont have unprotected sex ,buy a bycycle , walking and swimming , its not goin to cost you a fortune to lead a healthy lifestyle if you use a common sense approach to it.

[Penefattore]

vpi78, Nice to hear from you. If you fancy a drink at some stage, send me a PM

Shouldn't you be on ultra stingy extra saving mode ?

[Penefattore]

I dont think you have to spend a load of money to keep healthy , eat a balanced diet , dont smoke , drink in moderation , dont have unprotected sex ,buy a bycycle , walking and swimming , its not goin to cost you a fortune to lead a healthy lifestyle if you use a common sense approach to it.

I agree you don't need to spend a load to keep healthy, you just have to live a crappy life that will make you willing to jump off your balcony in a heartbit.

[raven0099]

I dont think you have to spend a load of money to keep healthy , eat a balanced diet , dont smoke , drink in moderation , dont have unprotected sex ,buy a bycycle , walking and swimming , its not goin to cost you a fortune to lead a healthy lifestyle if you use a common sense approach to it.

I agree you don't need to spend a load to keep healthy, you just have to live a crappy life that will make you willing to jump off your balcony in a heartbit.

Strange mentality , i fail to see how someones life could be described as crappy and so negative for following a normal healthy routine , at the end of the day if you abuse your body and dont look after yourself then you have a higher chance of medical problems , therefore whatever money you have aint no good to you if your life is affected by ill health ,

[tombkk]

For your diabete, have you considered vegan diet ? It is especially beneficial for type 2.

I think everybody is trying to tell you to be a bit more budget conscious, it goes the same for your body.

Your health is what should come first

Isn't that a bit harsh? I subscribe to "Your well-being should come first", and living without meat would decrease the quality of life for me to an extent that I don't want to deal with.

Why would you want to extend your life if you don't enjoy it? "You" in the general sense, not you personally.

[tombkk]

This is a good topic and highlights a hidden problem in Thailand, it's not as cheap as you may think.

If you are single you control your life and the expenses yourself and let's face it you don't need that much until you are sick, or if you have a Thai health insurance and get sick. Then you will see how expensive this can end up. For a lot of Europeans now, beware some of the European governments have revamped the laws, so if you do live abroad you will not be liable for medical care even if you suddenly decide to move home with your newfound sickness. You are on your own... One person in Pattaya got AIDS and he got no help when returning, he would have to pay this himself and obviously returned and died not long after in Camillian in Thailand. Another example is a guy who got cancer, his Thai health insurance was up for renewal and they refused him to renew. A total failure in his economy, loans from family and friends back home got him over it but a life in misery without money followed.

The worst of this is that foreigners in Thailand drink more then home, exercise less then home, have a lot of sex with high risk prostitutes and to put it mildly live an extremely high risk life for there own health and well being.

For those who on top of this have a wife or partner the expenses can easily double (unless you are a total dick who think only of himself), I am sick and tired of reading all the comments about Thai women think of everyone more than the falang, they prefer gold and glitter over there husband etc. This is a lot to do with the falang married to the other part, the falang go out party every night, fool around, talk bad about the Thai people and the women, complain and expect the women to be home take care of them like babies and on top of it feel they deserve full attention and love from the women. Grow up and treat the women as you want them to treat you or live with a other part which loath you but stay in to not loose out, until she can take no more and try to hit you back.

If you do have children the expenses will really mount up, IF you want your children to have the same stand point as yourself the day they leave home. Because you cannot put the kids in public school or even Thai private school if you want them on your level, you need to get them through international school, then send them out for higher education so they can either stay overseas or come to Thailand as well educated people with proper jobs, proper income and proper life. Should you be one of the people who cannot afford this cost you should decide to move home with the kids so they can get the best of life as well. Or should you be one of the dicks as above, and just bang them through the Thai system and see your kids end up in the ordinary Thai life bracket living (in our own eyes) in crap conditions you won't give a shit anyway, all you see is you.

Kids easily cost you 500 000 Baht each or more a year in International school.

To live a proper life in Thailand is expensive, to stay in a place where your hobbies (except drinking) will cost you a lot of money, to keep healthy is not cheap or easy it is a challenge.

I lived in Thailand for 12 years, but at the end with a very high Offshore salary I kicked it in, my kid cost me then over 600 000 baht in school, the insurances and the interest of everyone (hobbies and sport) mounted up, good healthy food and lifestyle was expensive and calculating it all I was better off moving back to Europe, it cost me less for a better lifestyle. So that was my decision, we moved back to a cheaper Europe.

Some friends live cheaper in Thailand though, they are single and young, or just dicks. Others struggle there hardest to do the best with limited means, and if they open there eyes and let go they may be better off other places.

There is no answer, just the idea to beware prior to moving to Thailand is good. There is also no answer of how to live, that is up to the person living and nothing is right or wrong unless you hurt others with your lifestyle.

Long post, and it sounds you speak from experience.

I pick only one issue: Education.

Well, international schools are expensive (big business in Thailand). In my class at a local university I have mostly students who graduated from the Thai system and only a few who have graduated from international schools or from abroad. My students have enrolled in the English-language curriculum, and we teach business (BBA).

In my experience, it comes down more to the family situation than whether the students where educated in the Thai or the international system. If I had children, I would send them to the Thai schools (especially here in Bangkok!) and teach them values and business practices in our company.

Forgive me, but I think the kids are being spoiled at international schools. If I had money and didn't care about kharma, I would open an international school in Thailand. As I said, it's big business.

That said, there are other points in your post that I disagree with. But we are already hijacking this thread.

[aneliane]

For your diabete, have you considered vegan diet ? It is especially beneficial for type 2.

I think everybody is trying to tell you to be a bit more budget conscious, it goes the same for your body.

Your health is what should come first

Isn't that a bit harsh? I subscribe to "Your well-being should come first", and living without meat would decrease the quality of life for me to an extent that I don't want to deal with.

Why would you want to extend your life if you don't enjoy it? "You" in the general sense, not you personally.

People who have switched actually enjoy a much better quality of life

[khunPer]

Hydrogen Peroxide is any concentration is commonly know as bleach or rocket fuel and is caustic in any concentration, there is absolutely no scienfitic/medical evidence that there are any medical benefits of ingesting HP, whether drinking it or sniffing it ...!!!.....its all hippy dippy/new age rubblish.

Hydrogen Peroxide is not "good" and natural product.....its produced industrially.....no such thing as "organic" hydrogen peroxide.....drink it or sniff it at your peril....

Not really,

hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced in organisms as a by-product of oxidative metabolism. Hydrogen peroxide has also been found as a natural part of healing water, fx. from the famous Loudes in France (0.25%). Ozon and water produces small amounts of hydrogen peroxide "natually" in rainwater and snow. Even known for almost 200 years only recent scientific studies, published 2009, found that hydrogen peroxide plays a role in the immune system. But as I said: "...do not be become fanatic. Do your research..."

[aneliane]

Hydrogen Peroxide is any concentration is commonly know as bleach or rocket fuel and is caustic in any concentration, there is absolutely no scienfitic/medical evidence that there are any medical benefits of ingesting HP, whether drinking it or sniffing it ...!!!.....its all hippy dippy/new age rubblish.

Hydrogen Peroxide is not "good" and natural product.....its produced industrially.....no such thing as "organic" hydrogen peroxide.....drink it or sniff it at your peril....

Not really,

hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced in organisms as a by-product of oxidative metabolism. Hydrogen peroxide has also been found as a natural part of healing water, fx. from the famous Loudes in France (0.25%). Ozon and water produces small amounts of hydrogen peroxide "natually" in rainwater and snow. Even known for almost 200 years only recent scientific studies, published 2009, found that hydrogen peroxide plays a role in the immune system. But as I said: "...do not be become fanatic. Do your research..."

The famous Loudes in France, must be a new famous place ...

[Ulysses G.]

For your diabete, have you considered vegan diet ? It is especially beneficial for type 2.

I think everybody is trying to tell you to be a bit more budget conscious, it goes the same for your body.

Your health is what should come first

Isn't that a bit harsh? I subscribe to "Your well-being should come first", and living without meat would decrease the quality of life for me to an extent that I don't want to deal with.

Why would you want to extend your life if you don't enjoy it? "You" in the general sense, not you personally.

People who have switched actually enjoy a much better quality of life

Some do. Some don't, but most of he vegetarians that I have known (including me ) eventually go back to eating meat. IMHO, including some meat in one's diet is necessary for optimum health. The trick is limiting it to small amounts.

[khunPer]

I pick only one issue: Education.

Well, international schools are expensive (big business in Thailand). In my class at a local university I have mostly students who graduated from the Thai system and only a few who have graduated from international schools or from abroad. My students have enrolled in the English-language curriculum, and we teach business (BBA).

In my experience, it comes down more to the family situation than whether the students where educated in the Thai or the international system. If I had children, I would send them to the Thai schools (especially here in Bangkok!) and teach them values and business practices in our company.

Forgive me, but I think the kids are being spoiled at international schools. If I had money and didn't care about kharma, I would open an international school in Thailand. As I said, it's big business.

That said, there are other points in your post that I disagree with. But we are already hijacking this thread.

Very interesting post, indeed. Vise words to think about.

Thai schools may become better over the last decade than their reputation.

[aneliane]

For your diabete, have you considered vegan diet ? It is especially beneficial for type 2.

I think everybody is trying to tell you to be a bit more budget conscious, it goes the same for your body.

Your health is what should come first

Isn't that a bit harsh? I subscribe to "Your well-being should come first", and living without meat would decrease the quality of life for me to an extent that I don't want to deal with.

Why would you want to extend your life if you don't enjoy it? "You" in the general sense, not you personally.

People who have switched actually enjoy a much better quality of life

Some do. Some don't, but most of he vegetarians that I have known (including me ) eventually go back to eating meat. IMHO, including some meat in one's diet is necessary for optimum health. The trick is limiting it to small amounts.

We are talking diabete type 2 here, not just "oh do I prefer eating meat or go veggie, will I miss my pork chop and my happy meal" ...

ie : Very heavy and expensive life time medication + quality of life being drastically altered with fits that could happen at any given time +obesity derivatives problems (heart diseases, blood pressure, etc ..) And in this case the total vegan diet is prescribed.

Edited August 8, 2011 by aneliane

[khunPer]

Hydrogen Peroxide is any concentration is commonly know as bleach or rocket fuel and is caustic in any concentration, there is absolutely no scienfitic/medical evidence that there are any medical benefits of ingesting HP, whether drinking it or sniffing it ...!!!.....its all hippy dippy/new age rubblish.

Hydrogen Peroxide is not "good" and natural product.....its produced industrially.....no such thing as "organic" hydrogen peroxide.....drink it or sniff it at your peril....

Not really,

hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced in organisms as a by-product of oxidative metabolism. Hydrogen peroxide has also been found as a natural part of healing water, fx. from the famous Loudes in France (0.25%). Ozon and water produces small amounts of hydrogen peroxide "natually" in rainwater and snow. Even known for almost 200 years only recent scientific studies, published 2009, found that hydrogen peroxide plays a role in the immune system. But as I said: "...do not be become fanatic. Do your research..."

The famous Loudes in France, must be a new famous place ...

Sorry for mistyping, should be Lourdes ("Our Lady of Lourdes").

[tombkk]

Isn't that a bit harsh? I subscribe to "Your well-being should come first", and living without meat would decrease the quality of life for me to an extent that I don't want to deal with.

Why would you want to extend your life if you don't enjoy it? "You" in the general sense, not you personally.

People who have switched actually enjoy a much better quality of life

Some do. Some don't, but most of he vegetarians that I have known (including me ) eventually go back to eating meat. IMHO, including some meat in one's diet is necessary for optimum health. The trick is limiting it to small amounts.

We are talking diabete type 2 here, not just "oh do I prefer eating meat or go veggie, will I miss my pork chop and my happy meal" ...

ie : Very heavy and expensive life time medication + quality of life being drastically altered with fits that could happen at any given time +obesity derivatives problems (heart diseases, blood pressure, etc ..) And in this case the total vegan diet is prescribed.

That's an extreme scenario under which you prescribe a vegan diet. It sounded differently at first...

I don't know what is type 2, do you have to be obese to get it? I know lots of people with diabetes, no idea what type, and if I ever get diabetes (I am not obese), I do not plan to become vegan. (Nothing to do with Happy Meal, I think you just mentioned it to make your point through exaggeration.)