Using Facebook While On Retreat At Temple

[theblether]

I'm quite amused / bemused with this one and I kinda know the answer ........my Thai Girl is in retreat at a temple, supposedly due to a family illness........and she is using facebook!! It's safe to say that when she emerges she will find herself in the category of ex Thai GF however I thought I would throw it open for the wisdom and insightfullness of TV members/////so your thoughts??....good girl? bad girl? ex girl? lol

I genuinely thought mobile devices are banned on retreat....am I wrong?

Oh, Oh, and before the flamers start, please answer with wisdom.......flaming is easy

[Member]

Finally you learned the difference between Buddhism and 'Thai Buddhism'

(something like with a Rolex and a Lolex)

[Roadman]

Yes you are wrong. It seems to be how Buddhist the individual is.

Even the temples themselves have Facebook sites, and it is no different to using their cell phone.

A close young friend of our family is in a Bangkok temple at this time doing his "3 month monk stint". He is keeping in touch with his friends including his girlfriend via Facebook and cell phone. It seems to be at the same set times which indicates there is scheduled time available. What I cannot figure out is if you are committing to the purity and enlightment of the mind for Darhma for 3 months then the whole lot becomes a pile of bull crap when romantic discussions with the girl friend are occuring every night. I wonder why this young guy is even bothering as it seems to be just 'seen to be the right thing to be doing to be a good thai' so you do the 3 month stint as painlessly as you can.

My partner on the other hand when she goes to temple for retreat turns her cell phone off and commits fully, but then that is only for short periods of up to a week.

[spacedcowboy]

I'm quite amused / bemused with this one and I kinda know the answer ........my Thai Girl is in retreat at a temple, supposedly due to a family illness........and she is using facebook!! It's safe to say that when she emerges she will find herself in the category of ex Thai GF however I thought I would throw it open for the wisdom and insightfullness of TV members/////so your thoughts??....good girl? bad girl? ex girl? lol

I genuinely thought mobile devices are banned on retreat....am I wrong?

Reading material phones laptops anything that will cause a distraction from practice aren't permitted in "authentic" retreat centres.

However I think you need to discover your gf ex gf's beliefs about what she thinks she is there to achieve on retreat and what Buddhism actually is, believe me I have heard some interesting takes on this whilst in Thailand and its important you don't mis-judge her.

I used to watch people attend the circumnavigation of the Chedi in Chang Mai on important religious days ( supposedly mindfully and respectfully) whilst holding a conversation on there mobile phones or eating, the whole point of the exercises was somewhat overlooked.

But also be aware or beware! Just because they say there Buddhist doesn't actually equate to Buddhist behaviour for example:

Most guys assume they will meet a nice girl at the local temple this could be a potentially big mistake.

Buddhism and the interpretation of how attending the temple to make merit after commiting some bad dead is part and parcel of life for some in Thailand (everythings ok if you make a donation to the temple, lol) I have personally been aware of people that do this in a matter of fact way regularly not very Buddhist. Believe me there behave was atrocious their temple donation just providing an assumed get out of jail free card.

True Buddhism is one thing Thai culture and all of its psyche are another.

Edited August 4, 2011 by spacedcowboy

[Raesum]

I was at a funeral once and the guy next to me was having a good old chat on his mobile phone!!.Occasionally I will go to the temple on Wan Phra to give food and listen to the monks.Well when I say listen its usually against a backdrop of women chat chat chatting . The obvious belief is that in this case and in the Thai GF case -if they are at the temple and seen to be doing what they think they should be seen to be doing then they have got all bases covered and they will get the "brownie points"

[simon43]

My Thai ex went on a week's retreat. After a couple of hours at the wat, she telephoned her sister to bring quilts, pillows and blankets, plus a large supply of freshly-cooked Issan food.

This take-out service lasted for 3 days until the head monk threw her out!!!

Simon

[ballbreaker]

If more than 3 days and she took any clothing that was not white then dump her.

[garrfeild]

To quote the OP

"I'm quite amused / bemused with this one and I kinda know the answer ........my Thai Girl is in retreat at a temple, supposedly due to a family illness........and she is using facebook!! It's safe to say that when she emerges she will find herself in the category of ex Thai GF however I thought I would throw it open for the wisdom and insightfullness of TV members/////so your thoughts??....good girl? bad girl? ex girl? lol"

end quote

Are you an athiest? do you practice your faith as it should be? do you really have the right to question her faith in buddhism if you don't practice your own religion as it should be? Are you That shallow that because your GF uses facebook while on retreat, it makes you feel she is not the girl for you?

I wonder if this is really what it's all about! With respect what a load of B*LLS**T

[garrfeild]

I'm quite amused / bemused with this one and I kinda know the answer ........my Thai Girl is in retreat at a temple, supposedly due to a family illness........and she is using facebook!! It's safe to say that when she emerges she will find herself in the category of ex Thai GF however I thought I would throw it open for the wisdom and insightfullness of TV members/////so your thoughts??....good girl? bad girl? ex girl? lol

I genuinely thought mobile devices are banned on retreat....am I wrong?

Reading material phones laptops anything that will cause a distraction from practice aren't permitted in "authentic" retreat centres.

However I think you need to discover your gf ex gf's beliefs about what she thinks she is there to achieve on retreat and what Buddhism actually is, believe me I have heard some interesting takes on this whilst in Thailand and its important you don't mis-judge her.

I used to watch people attend the circumnavigation of the Chedi in Chang Mai on important religious days ( supposedly mindfully and respectfully) whilst holding a conversation on there mobile phones or eating, the whole point of the exercises was somewhat overlooked.

But also be aware or beware! Just because they say there Buddhist doesn't actually equate to Buddhist behaviour for example:

Most guys assume they will meet a nice girl at the local temple this could be a potentially big mistake.

Buddhism and the interpretation of how attending the temple to make merit after commiting some bad dead is part and parcel of life for some in Thailand (everythings ok if you make a donation to the temple, lol) I have personally been aware of people that do this in a matter of fact way regularly not very Buddhist. Believe me there behave was atrocious their temple donation just providing an assumed get out of jail free card.

True Buddhism is one thing Thai culture and all of its psyche are another.

In respects of your last paragraph, a question! so how does thid equate with Catholics who go to confession and get absolved of any wrong doing? is this not just as hypocritical when seeking forgiveness?

[richard_smith237]

The whole idea of resoling ones guilt al la Catholicism Confession doesn't appear to quite fit with visiting the Wat for a few days.

The impression I have always had is that people visit the Temple / Wat for a number of reasons some of which include :

1) To be seen to be doing the correct thing.

2) There is belief that even though they live a normal life visiting the Wat will make them better people.

3) Many find the meditation highly relaxing and somewhat medicinal.

I suspect there are no rights and wrongs, no judgements, no criticisms - Isn't this what its supposed to be all about ?

In this thread 'some' have passed judgement, in the same way some pass judgement on Monks in Panthip, Monks on Business Class flights and Monks on Lap Tops (computing variety!)....

I may be mistaken as I'm not a follower of any religion: In it's simplest form isn't Buddhism about being a good person? After which there are differing degrees of dedication.

Edited August 5, 2011 by richard_smith237

[theblether]

To quote the OP

"I'm quite amused / bemused with this one and I kinda know the answer ........my Thai Girl is in retreat at a temple, supposedly due to a family illness........and she is using facebook!! It's safe to say that when she emerges she will find herself in the category of ex Thai GF however I thought I would throw it open for the wisdom and insightfullness of TV members/////so your thoughts??....good girl? bad girl? ex girl? lol"

end quote

Are you an athiest? do you practice your faith as it should be? do you really have the right to question her faith in buddhism if you don't practice your own religion as it should be? Are you That shallow that because your GF uses facebook while on retreat, it makes you feel she is not the girl for you?

I wonder if this is really what it's all about! With respect what a load of B*LLS**T

Aha, the first flamer of the post, I have been very impressed with the quality of the advice and answers that have been forthcoming up to this point, I recognise the majority of the points made and some new ones have stuck in my mind.

As for this posting, you are not qualified to assume anything about me or my beliefs. All you need to know is that I asked for input and advice and you've shown yourself up as an ignoramus.

[beautifulthailand99]

At in the UK at the Amaravati Buddhist monastery which is an Ajarn Chah Wat has the following text on the retreat part of their website;

Please note: retreatants are asked not to use mobile phones, laptops or ipods during retreats. We provide safe facilities where these and other valuables are left for the duration of the retreat. (does this mean Ipads are ok !)

If you wish to stay just as a guest they have this ;

Electrical Appliances - Please note that due to current Health and Safety regulations, every electrical appliance - i.e. anything which needs to be plugged into a wall socket in the monastery, must first be checked and approved by a qualified electrician. This means that visitors can no longer bring items such as mobile phones, laptops, ipods, etc. from home to plug in and use while staying here. We regret any inconvenience caused.

As others have said for many Thai's their Buddhism is wrapped up in a whole load of other cultural stuff. I don't envisage the Buddha saw a lot of his disciples shuflling round Pantip looking for the latest tech - Tibetan monk who plays computer games for relaxation

But hey this is Thailand leave your western logic filters at the immigration control desk at the airport on the way in.

Edited August 5, 2011 by beautifulthailand99

[spacedcowboy]

I'm quite amused / bemused with this one and I kinda know the answer ........my Thai Girl is in retreat at a temple, supposedly due to a family illness........and she is using facebook!! It's safe to say that when she emerges she will find herself in the category of ex Thai GF however I thought I would throw it open for the wisdom and insightfullness of TV members/////so your thoughts??....good girl? bad girl? ex girl? lol

I genuinely thought mobile devices are banned on retreat....am I wrong?

Reading material phones laptops anything that will cause a distraction from practice aren't permitted in "authentic" retreat centres.

However I think you need to discover your gf ex gf's beliefs about what she thinks she is there to achieve on retreat and what Buddhism actually is, believe me I have heard some interesting takes on this whilst in Thailand and its important you don't mis-judge her.

I used to watch people attend the circumnavigation of the Chedi in Chang Mai on important religious days ( supposedly mindfully and respectfully) whilst holding a conversation on there mobile phones or eating, the whole point of the exercises was somewhat overlooked.

But also be aware or beware! Just because they say there Buddhist doesn't actually equate to Buddhist behaviour for example:

Most guys assume they will meet a nice girl at the local temple this could be a potentially big mistake.

Buddhism and the interpretation of how attending the temple to make merit after commiting some bad dead is part and parcel of life for some in Thailand (everythings ok if you make a donation to the temple, lol) I have personally been aware of people that do this in a matter of fact way regularly not very Buddhist. Believe me there behave was atrocious their temple donation just providing an assumed get out of jail free card.

True Buddhism is one thing Thai culture and all of its psyche are another.

In respects of your last paragraph, a question! so how does thid equate with Catholics who go to confession and get absolved of any wrong doing? is this not just as hypocritical when seeking forgiveness?

I would assume someones "intent" plays a large part of ones seeking forgiveness and getting absolved for a wrong doing.

The intent of the wrong doer to recognise and fundamentally learn from there mistakes thus deepening there understanding and faith and become a better person as a consequence.

Whilst we are all human and forgiveness is vital, if someone keep using the get out of free card on a regular basis, it would be seen as a reflection on there level of understanding of the faith they were subscribing to.

I can't comment on how that works in the Catholic Faith I guess the priest must support the the person confessing to some point and educate them along the way as much as possible.

[spacedcowboy]

The whole idea of resoling ones guilt al la Catholicism Confession doesn't appear to quite fit with visiting the Wat for a few days.

The impression I have always had is that people visit the Temple / Wat for a number of reasons some of which include :

1) To be seen to be doing the correct thing.

2) There is belief that even though they live a normal life visiting the Wat will make them better people.

3) Many find the meditation highly relaxing and somewhat medicinal.

I suspect there are no rights and wrongs, no judgements, no criticisms - Isn't this what its supposed to be all about ?

In this thread 'some' have passed judgement, in the same way some pass judgement on Monks in Panthip, Monks on Business Class flights and Monks on Lap Tops (computing variety!)....

I may be mistaken as I'm not a follower of any religion: In it's simplest form isn't Buddhism about being a good person? After which there are differing degrees of dedication.

I agree there are differing levels of dedication, and that any contact no matter how small with a good "entity" be that a monk a temple or organisation that truly benefits the individual is a positive.

However I would suggest that manipulating the religious system for your own ends and un-skillfull living isn't truly going to get you very far in the long term "big picture of things"

But this is the path some choose and thats there path, and not ours as you say who are we to judge.

[garrfeild]

To quote the OP

"I'm quite amused / bemused with this one and I kinda know the answer ........my Thai Girl is in retreat at a temple, supposedly due to a family illness........and she is using facebook!! It's safe to say that when she emerges she will find herself in the category of ex Thai GF however I thought I would throw it open for the wisdom and insightfullness of TV members/////so your thoughts??....good girl? bad girl? ex girl? lol"

end quote

Are you an athiest? do you practice your faith as it should be? do you really have the right to question her faith in buddhism if you don't practice your own religion as it should be? Are you That shallow that because your GF uses facebook while on retreat, it makes you feel she is not the girl for you?

I wonder if this is really what it's all about! With respect what a load of B*LLS**T

Aha, the first flamer of the post, I have been very impressed with the quality of the advice and answers that have been forthcoming up to this point, I recognise the majority of the points made and some new ones have stuck in my mind.

As for this posting, you are not qualified to assume anything about me or my beliefs. All you need to know is that I asked for input and advice and you've shown yourself up as an ignoramus.

To suggest that my responce is flaming, shows your lack of inteligence, there are some very pertinant questions which you have failed to even answer. Frankly judging by the question I would assume there is nothing about you that needs qualifying, it's pretty obvious!

[sabaijai]

The same question has occurred to me when I see someone post on Facebook while on retreat, commenting on how peaceful their stay is, for example, or about the 'true nature' of merit.

I'm sure it depends a lot on the centre or monastery. I know of several in Thailand that ban laptops and books, but not cellphones. With many cellphones now Internet-capable, the temptation to check email or post on FB may be hard to resist.

At the more remote centres, there is no wifi or cellphone service, so it becomes a moot point.

I think that some people find it very difficult to cut themselves off from society and friends completely, even if it's just for a few days. But at least they're putting some effort into practice, even if it's not perfect.

[theblether]

The same question has occurred to me when I see someone post on Facebook while on retreat, commenting on how peaceful their stay is, for example, or about the 'true nature' of merit.

I'm sure it depends a lot on the centre or monastery. I know of several in Thailand that ban laptops and books, but not cellphones. With many cellphones now Internet-capable, the temptation to check email or post on FB may be hard to resist.

At the more remote centres, there is no wifi or cellphone service, so it becomes a moot point.

I think that some people find it very difficult to cut themselves off from society and friends completely, even if it's just for a few days. But at least they're putting some effort into practice, even if it's not perfect.

I can see that as being a temptation, maybe it is a central conflict in being a practising Buddhist in the 21st Century.

I remember reading months ago Thai Visa members saying months ago that their respective wives and gf's would come out Retreat after a few days or short weeks with a feeling of peace and elation.

I think that is the state that they are looking for, and to be honest I envy them. That is why I'm having a bit of difficulty in understanding why someone would go on Facebook while in Retreat.

Edited August 5, 2011 by theblether

[RickThai]

theblether:

I once met a young couple in the mountains of Colorado who were devout Buddhists. We spent some time together doing chanting and meditation. The girl very young (20s) and very pretty, tried to initiate Tantric Sex with me when we were alone. I kind of blew it off (as I am married and her boyfriend was really a nice guy).

Before we parted, they both gave me their e-mail addresses and encouraged me to contact them. A couple of months later, I e-mailed the girl, sending her some pictures I had of me attending a Buddhist ceremony in Thailand.

I got a terse e-mail back stating she was in a retreat in Hawaaii. I never heard from her after that.

You said you were amused/bemused and that she would soon be an ex-girlfriend. I am confused, if you really cared for her, why would you be anything but hurt and angry if you thought she was out doing things she shouldn't be doing, and was untruthfull about the retreat?

Perhaps, you could pay her a surprise visit at the retreat? If she really were in retreat (by herself), this would be a great opportunity for the two of you to become spiritually closer.

RickThai

[beautifulthailand99]

Rick I'm moved and inspired by your inner sense of morality I doubt I would have been so resolved in your position with an offer of tantric sex from a pretty lady.

[fabianfred]

Rick I'm moved and inspired by your inner sense of morality I doubt I would have been so resolved in your position with an offer of tantric sex from a pretty lady.

No matter how you try and clothe it....sex is just scratching an itch....calling it Tantric does not prevent you breaking the third precept if it causes suffering to her partner. Even swingers who appear to enjoy the freedom to taste other's fruit might feel regrets and distrust later and be the cause to break up relationships.

All these little distractions are best avoided during retreat, especially speaking...(and typing is just speaking ...silently). There are enough distractions to practice without adding more unnecessary ones.

To get results from a retreat require total commitment and effort.

A bit like trying to put a satellite in orbit.....if the rocket hasn't enough sustained power it will fail to reach escape.....a thousand times and the same result.

A thousand retreats without sustained effort will have little result.

[Xangsamhua]

No matter how you try and clothe it....sex is just scratching an itch....calling it Tantric does not prevent you breaking the third precept if it causes suffering to her partner. Even swingers who appear to enjoy the freedom to taste other's fruit might feel regrets and distrust later and be the cause to break up relationships.

I remember Tenzin Palmo saying she'd be more impressed by a Tantric master who wanted to have sex with older and less pretty women, but they seem to prefer the younger ones for some reason. Tantric sex is playing with fire for 99.999% of us.

[Xangsamhua]

May I suggest Facebook is a distractor from an ordered, reflective life altogether - not just for those on retreat.

It's good for posting photos though.

[Jawnie]

Using Facebook, cell phones, etc., is counter-intuitive to the purpose of retreat in most people's mind, it seems. I agree. Retreats are time for introspection and reflection and watching how the mind operates when removed from day-to-day activities and interests. So, if you bring those activities and interests with you into retreat, then you really haven't removed yourself from those distractions to the full extent possible. Best to say in these cases that such 'retreatants' probably aren't getting the full benefit of the retreat - at their own wish.

In the big picture, though, no act of devotion toward the Three Jewels (Buddha, Dharma, Sangha) is every wasted and so I think that even these distracted retreatants make benefit for themselves even in their distracted state during retreat.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Jawnie

[rockyysdt]

All these little distractions are best avoided during retreat, especially speaking...(and typing is just speaking ...silently). There are enough distractions to practice without adding more unnecessary ones.

A retreatant who allows distractions is only fooling themselves.

It entirely depends on ones motivation for doing a retreat in the first place.

Many things went through my mind between spells of focusing on the breath.

There were times, whilst doing individual walking meditation, that I would look up at an aircraft flying over and think, "what am I doing here".

I thought of many enjoyable things I could be doing back in Bangkok instead of being cooped up in isolation, with my mind and its rampant thoughts as my company.

Without some progress towards advancement/experience of self awareness my rampant negative thoughts might have ended up being correct.

On my last retreat two attendees were asked to leave after breaking the code of "silence".

The retreat leader was responsible to ensure integrity of practice and maintain the group dynamic.

To get results from a retreat require total commitment and effort.

The trick here is to have total commitment and effort without attachment.

Over commitment and effort can have the same negative effect.

Edited August 7, 2011 by rockyysdt

[camerata]

That YouTube clip is brilliant.

[sabaijai]

From what I have observed, there is no single, blanket practice or standard that works equally well for everyone.

When I participate in a retreat, one clear side benefit is getting away from phone calls, email and the Internet entirely. I would never consider using computers or cellphones at all during intensive practice.

But I wouldn't be so quick to judge someone else. There are many different kinds of temple residencies in Thailand, and Thais participate in a broad range of them including types that most Western visitors or residents would have little or no experience of.

When English-speaking Thais use the term 'retreat,' it may not mean a full-blown satipatthana vipassana silent retreat that many Western meditators think of. Some are oriented more towards making merit by staying in the temple and supporting the community, with a few hours of meditation as part of the schedule. Perhaps not much of a 'retreat' by some people's high standards, but you have to consider that in many cases it may be more of a social function than a sprint towards nibbana.

Just as giving alms is believed to be a good thing, even if it's beyond the necessary and sufficient for the monastics, Thais believe that attending a retreat is meritorious. Some of these retreats are quite lenient. You may think it's a waste of time, but luckily you have choices and can select the kind of retreat for yourself that you believe is more suitable.

Aside from the difference in retreat orientations, every individual comes from a different level of practice, attainments and parami. What works for one person may not work for another.

[spacedcowboy]

In my experience I've found that whilst I know the whole retreat experience benefits me, once the retreat has officially finished and I am back in daily life removed from the "Policed State" of a meditation centre where distractions are kept artificially a bay, the real learning begins.

Integration of mindfulness into everyday mainstream life is the true test of your abilities, bringing awareness of how to implement what you have learned skillfully to benefit yourself and the people around you.

I have met people in meditation retreats who have spent years developing there powers of concentration in the "Bubble" of a retreat/monastery.

And they have developed great powers of concentration whilst in this controlled environment which is fine if you intend to remain in there, but somewhat goes against what some would consider a "rounded" life.

I no longer attend retreats, I feel that they benefitted me at the early stages of my practice i.e learning techniques but believe living mindfully amongst all of the distractions and taking responsibility for identifying and choosing what I allow to occupy me is probably what works best for my practice.

[sabaijai]

In my experience I've found that whilst I know the whole retreat experience benefits me, once the retreat has officially finished and I am back in daily life removed from the "Policed State" of a meditation centre where distractions are kept artificially a bay, the real learning begins.

Integration of mindfulness into everyday mainstream life is the true test of your abilities, bringing awareness of how to implement what you have learned skillfully to benefit yourself and the people around you.

I have met people in meditation retreats who have spent years developing there powers of concentration in the "Bubble" of a retreat/monastery.

And they have developed great powers of concentration whilst in this controlled environment which is fine if you intend to remain in there, but somewhat goes against what some would consider a "rounded" life.

I no longer attend retreats, I feel that they benefitted me at the early stages of my practice i.e learning techniques but believe living mindfully amongst all of the distractions and taking responsibility for identifying and choosing what I allow to occupy me is probably what works best for my practice.

Nice contribution.

[RickThai]

Rick I'm moved and inspired by your inner sense of morality I doubt I would have been so resolved in your position with an offer of tantric sex from a pretty lady.

No matter how you try and clothe it....sex is just scratching an itch....calling it Tantric does not prevent you breaking the third precept if it causes suffering to her partner. Even swingers who appear to enjoy the freedom to taste other's fruit might feel regrets and distrust later and be the cause to break up relationships.

All these little distractions are best avoided during retreat, especially speaking...(and typing is just speaking ...silently). There are enough distractions to practice without adding more unnecessary ones.

To get results from a retreat require total commitment and effort.

A bit like trying to put a satellite in orbit.....if the rocket hasn't enough sustained power it will fail to reach escape.....a thousand times and the same result.

A thousand retreats without sustained effort will have little result.

What helped me keep the precept of avoiding adultery (besides my love for my wife), was the thought that the young lady and I would get together in another life, if the attraction that brought us together was strong enough (and one of the premises of Tantric Sex, is that the longer you hold off, the better the sex! ).

(Sorry to get off topic).

Someday, I hope to go to a retreat and experience total immersion into the dhamma and the samgha.

Rick

Edited August 10, 2011 by RickThai

[jamesc2000]

If I had wisdom I would know not to be so judgemental on this issue and

I would have a stronger relationship than one based on breaking up

just bcos she used facebook on retreat.

Since I dun have wisdom, I would not disagree with the TS.