Report On Cause Of Death Of 6 Foreign Tourists In Chiang Mai Delayed

[webfact]

Thai report on Sarah Carter's death delayed

A report detailing the cause of death of six Western tourists in Thailand, including New Zealander Sarah Carter, is expected to be released on Monday.

An expert panel met yesterday to conduct an "internal review" of the sudden and unexplained deaths in Chiang Mai.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade said the experts had been drawn mainly from Bangkok and had no previous connection with the cases.

It is understood results of extensive sample testing into the deaths by Thai and international laboratories are complete, although not all samples returned conclusive results.

Ms Carter, 23, died and her New Zealand friends Emma Langlands and Amanda Eliason became gravely ill while on holiday in Chiang Mai in February.

Her father, Richard Carter, told The Dominion Post he had been told that publication of the report detailing the findings had been put back until Monday. "We were expecting it to be [Friday] but it's just one of these things. The Thai authorities have been pretty renowned for taking their time throughout this whole investigation."

He was hopeful there would be some new information in the report. "It'll be a bit of finalisation for that part of it. It won't make losing Sarah any easier, but it will be something."

A statement from the Thai Public Health Ministry said the investigation was pursuing viral, toxin and chemical causes. It warned, however: "It is also possible that, despite the best efforts of Thai authorities and international partners, a complete explanation for the cause of illness and death may not be found for all cases."

The deaths being investigated happened between January 11 and February 19.

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5400648/Thai-report-on-Sarah-Carters-death-delayed

-- The Dominion Post 2011-08-06

[maidu]

If the public wants an objective, timely and professional investigation, they shouldn't rely upon Thai 'experts.'

Similar to the delayed report on the Red Shirt problems in Bkk in 2010, the report will be delayed and, as hinted at in this story, the results will probably be nebulous.

Thais are good at producing reams of paper 'reports' in lieu of 'reports, but they fail at 'cutting to the chase' and issuing specific, descriptive objective explanations of things based on scientific analysis. They're so easily distracted. If asked to give an explanation of something, and several theories are proposed, the Thais will not be able to discern which theory is most likely. Instead, they'll become confused and wind up giving each theory similar credence. Perhaps it partly rests on Thais indelible belief in superstition which, in turn, dilutes analytical thinking abilities.

As for paper, here's one example: My attorney works with five partners. Each of the six attorneys has a desk. Each desk has between four and seven stacks of papers on it. the stacks are about 2 feet high and effectively form a wall around each attorney while they're sitting at their desks. I jest not. It's almost like part of a Monty Python script, but it's not fiction.

[jackr]

If asked to give an explanation of something, and several theories are proposed, the Thais will not be able to discern which theory is most likely. Instead, they'll become confused and wind up giving each theory similar credence. Perhaps it partly rests on Thais indelible belief in superstition which, in turn, dilutes analytical thinking abilities.

It's also massively to do with not wanting to make anyone lose face, particularly the nation. That and non-accountability are two of the worst aspects of life in Muang Thai.

[rkidlad]

The hope is - if we delay it long enough, people might forget about it. Why can't these pesky foreigners just forget about it?

If someone is to blame, I would love to see them held accountable.

[jalansanitwong]

Isnt that CM hotel owned by an influential local family? Alot of hotels in Thailand are owned by rich locals. No matter the outcome the powerful people will be untouched and go unpunished .

[Latindancer]

We'll just have to run the results through our collective "de-spinning" program. My guess is that they'll say it was an echovirus.

It'll also be interesting to see if they tell exact details about the lab results.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Latindancer

[cup-O-coffee]

How very little people around the world understand Thailand.

You would think after all these years and all similar incidences like this, that people would begin to accept the fact that Thai authority likes to over dramatize and twist into conspiracy anything that might directly or indirectly point a finger at any one individual or group of individuals; ESPECIALLY when foreigners are involved.

No matter the issue, there will never ever be a competent, frank and objective investigation into these things. It is not the culture or the Thai way.

The simplest conflict will always get drawn out into a long winded and diluted drama, until the matter is forgotten, and the ones with stains on their hands have palms as rosy pink as the day they were born.

Why? I can only guess that.

It is a very regrettable and sad fact of life here in the LO$ (IMO), that, until it is accepted, will continue to pop up periodically in (sub standard) news features and articles and grieve all foreigners alike.

[hellodolly]

Isnt that CM hotel owned by an influential local family? Alot of hotels in Thailand are owned by rich locals. No matter the outcome the powerful people will be untouched and go unpunished .

Yes it is owned by a gentleman from a rich and powerful family. But he is not a local family and I am not sure if it would be OK by the mods to mention his family name. They have laws here in Thailand.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Thai 'experts.'

Is there really such a thing in Thailand ? or is it a Oxymoron

[Atmos]

^ or Forum 'experts'?

no shortage of those

[salty]

Tragedies caused by foreigners to make Thailand look bad.

[ginjag]

Tragedies caused by foreigners to make Thailand look bad.

How dare these non Thai people come here and have the audacity to try to tarnish our reputation. Because of something out of our reach, it's unfortunate this one off situation happened. We always will insist on the highest standards in our tourist hotels, and any complaints will be dealt with quickly with no questions unanswered. As for any persons here who would even try to cover up any wrong doings will always be dealt with severely.

[RubbaJohnny]

RIP to Sarah Carter and all the other poor victims and their families

The Downtown had been sprayed with some insecticide the day prior to S Carters death

according to Kiwi TV

However this doesnt explain all of the events

Just as in those Hollywood plots where folks swop murders perhaps some were done to mask others

I think if a Columbo were to sniff into local victim he'd find enough to end up falling from a balcony into a klong

I fear the truth is known but not allowed to surface for the face loss/cost reasons pointed out by those with a clear insight to sanook in all its forms

"

Chiang Mai’s Head of Public Health Dr Surasing was also investigating this theory.

“I’m not the specialist,” he said. “But it’s possible that they mixed together the wrong chemicals.”

But Dr Surasing was not able to mention the chemicals that were used in the hotel or the company contracted to use them.Seems investigation somewaht lax?

The idea that some Thai hotels could be using unsafe chemicals first came to light two years ago when American Jill St Onge and Norwegian Julie Bergheim died at a Thai resort after they began violently vomiting.

American investigators suspected chemical poisoning but the

Thai authorities lost all the samples.

However, 60 Minutes’ samples were being looked after carefully and were taken back to New Zealand for testing by an independent laboratory.

The lab found tiny traces of an insecticide, chlorpyrifos, which is banned in some countries for domestic use.

Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Thailand-deaths-Evidence-Sarah-Carter-killed-by-insecticide/tabid/423/articleID/210265/Default.aspx#ixzz1UG1spaYy

[nikster]

The lab found tiny traces of an insecticide, chlorpyrifos, which is banned in some countries for domestic use.

Sounds like the most likely cause.

Wonder why it isn't banned in Thailand. An insecticide that can be deadly doesn't sound like a very good invention to begin with, actually.

R.I.P.

[Johpa]

Isnt that CM hotel owned by an influential local family? Alot of hotels in Thailand are owned by rich locals.

Many, if not most of the smaller hotels and resorts, are owned by "influential" people who have need to launder money. Hotels and resorts are the ideal vehicles for doing exactly that as most guests pay for their stays with cash. Just three rooms a day listed at 1,000 baat per day gets you one million baat laundered per annum pretty quickly. And then you can pick your multiple for your needs.

[surangw]

stalling while they complete their "creative writing" class

[siampolee]

Foreigners. They don't breathe the same as Thias

Edited August 6, 2011 by siampolee

[maidu]

The lab found tiny traces of an insecticide, chlorpyrifos, which is banned in some countries for domestic use.

Sounds like the most likely cause. Wonder why it isn't banned in Thailand. An insecticide that can be deadly doesn't sound like a very good invention to begin with, actually. R.I.P.

Have there been studies of the effects of such chemicals when used in combination with other chemicals? Ok, not by Thais (they're not science-minded), but by farang researchers. Example, how would chlorpyrifos affect a person who had ingested a load of MSG? MSG is used at most C.Mai restaurants, and is known to increase heart rate while lessening blood pressure. Perhaps the combination caused one or more fatalities.

[softgeorge]

"It is understood results of extensive sample testing into the deaths by Thai and international laboratories are complete, although not all samples returned conclusive results."

Does this mean that the results of International laboratories conflict with the findings of Thai laboratories?. International labs did not come to a finding of coincidence???? Will be interesting to see exactly what the International labs say if it is made public.

[softgeorge]

RIP to Sarah Carter and all the other poor victims and their families

The Downtown had been sprayed with some insecticide the day prior to S Carters death

according to Kiwi TV

However this doesnt explain all of the events

Just as in those Hollywood plots where folks swop murders perhaps some were done to mask others

I think if a Columbo were to sniff into local victim he'd find enough to end up falling from a balcony into a klong

I fear the truth is known but not allowed to surface for the face loss/cost reasons pointed out by those with a clear insight to sanook in all its forms

"

Chiang Mai's Head of Public Health Dr Surasing was also investigating this theory.

"I'm not the specialist," he said. "But it's possible that they mixed together the wrong chemicals."

But Dr Surasing was not able to mention the chemicals that were used in the hotel or the company contracted to use them.Seems investigation somewaht lax?

The idea that some Thai hotels could be using unsafe chemicals first came to light two years ago when American Jill St Onge and Norwegian Julie Bergheim died at a Thai resort after they began violently vomiting.

American investigators suspected chemical poisoning but the

Thai authorities lost all the samples.

However, 60 Minutes' samples were being looked after carefully and were taken back to New Zealand for testing by an independent laboratory.

The lab found tiny traces of an insecticide, chlorpyrifos, which is banned in some countries for domestic use.

Read more: http://www.3news.co....x#ixzz1UG1spaYy

IF what they say in your link is true there could be huge law suites against the hotel management and owners. (Probably get nowhere suing a thai tho) There could also be possible manslaughter charges.

[plumeria]

Magsaysay Award Winner Dr Praves Wasi once said: "Crows do not peck out the eyes of other crows."

That doesn't only apply to Thailand.

The number of comments that infer that what happens in Thailand does NOT happen in their homeland is quite mind boggling.

In what country do the rich and powerful and influential NOT do what they want? USA? UK? OZ?

[EyesWideOpen]

Let's recap........ If they actually tell the truth about what happened, then Thailand and the hotel owner will lose face. If they hide the truth, then more people will die and then Thailand will lose more face. Am pretty sure the strategy will be to just keep stalling and back pedaling until the pesky farangs lose interest. If they really are using deadly chemicals, I think I will start traveling with a small mouse. Then when I check into a room, I will leave the mouse there in a small cage and go eat. If I come back in a couple of hours and the mouse is still alive, I will then know the room is fine..... :jap:

Hey maybe this could be a hot business idea, renting testing mice to hotel guests.

[janverbeem]

I read in the OP " expected to be released on Monday " ,as the first Monday has been passed already and I didn't see any report,did they say which Monday?

[salty]

The 12th of never, and that's a long long time.

[Atmos]

report from today's NZ Herald

Cause of Kiwi's death still a mystery

12:44 PM Tuesday Aug 16, 2011

A report by Thai authorities into the death of New Zealander Sarah Carter and five other tourists has failed to ascertain exactly what caused their deaths.

. . .

The report said the clinical manifestation in the three New Zealand women, who were all hospitalised, could be explained by exposure to some chemicals such as those found in pesticides.

But while the report says there were links in the cause of death between the six deceased, "the specific agents that caused the deaths and illnesses in these events can not be identified and it can not be determined exactly how people were exposed to them".

The investigation team and the panel of experts agree the three Kiwis and a Thai woman are most likely to have the same cause of illness, "probably exposure to some toxic chemical, pesticides or gas, but the agent can not be identified".

"The three NZ women had severe metabolic acidosis (abnormal acid level in circulation) and two of them suffered myocardial injury (injury to the heart muscle)," the report said, adding the clinical symptoms of the Thai woman are unknown since she was found dead in her room.

The investigation said the cause of the women's illnesses were unlikely to be bacterial or viral.

"Pesticides in the organophosphate, organochlorine and carbamate group, such as cholpyrifos, are also unlikely to be the cause because they conflict with clinical specimens and blood test."

The illnesses of two others, an American and a Canadian, had "similar clinical manifestations" to those of the three New Zealand women, however investigators could not find any evidence the same causative agent was involved.

The death of an older English couple is possibly related to the New Zealanders' illness, as they occurred in the same hotel but again laboratories could not establish a direct link or the specific cause.

The illness and death of a French woman was found not to be related to any other cases or events, rather it was a "sporadic case of myocarditis most likely of viral origin".

source

[Atmos]

and a second news item includes the report, plus a list changes to be made as a result of the inquiry

CHANGES MADE

Thai authorities have introduced a raft of changes following the tourist deaths in Thailand, the report said.

The focus of the changes would centre around "taking measures to reduce the risks of chemical and pesticide exposure to future visitors''.

The actions included:

- The setting up of a panel to investigate and recommend stricter measures for the use of chemicals, including pesticides in hotels and market areas.

- The establishment of a new channel to receive notification of tourists and expatriates becoming ill.

- Surveillance of hospitalised tourists, already in effect, would be continued and a new protocol for investigation of fatal cases was being adopted.

- Retailers of household and agricultural chemicals (pesticides) must declare a watch list of products whose procurement and sales are to be closely monitored. The provincial health office will carry out periodic checks on them.

- Hotel operators were to be compelled to use only licensed pest control companies and their contracts must specify which chemicals were to be used and samples collected and sent for testing by the authorities twice a year.

- Municipal authorities were to give safety advice and monitor public celebrations where the burning of ritual papers and other materials were performed in communities, temples and shrines as part of traditional festivals.

- The development of a food safety standard at eateries and among street vendors, especially around the Night Bazaar area, frequented by tourists in Chiang Mai.

Source

[webfact]

Outcome Of Probe On Chiang Mai Tourist And Thai Guide Deaths

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