UPDATE 2 -- Afghan gov't: 31 Americans among 38 killed in NATO helicopter crash

[News_Editor]

UPDATE 2 -- Afghan gov't: 31 Americans among 38 killed in NATO helicopter crash

2011-08-06 16:28:09 GMT+7 (ICT)

KABUL (BNO NEWS) -- Nearly 40 American and Afghan soldiers were killed on early Saturday morning when a Chinook helicopter crashed in eastern Afghanistan, the Afghan government said. It is the worst loss of life for NATO since the war began.

The crash happened at around 3.30 a.m. local time when the Chinook helicopter went down in Wardak province, apparently after being hit by enemy fire. "We are in the process of assessing the facts and will release more information as appropriate," a spokesperson for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said. "Reporting indicates there was enemy activity in the area.

While ISAF did not confirm reports of casualties, a spokesman for Afghan President Hamid Karzai confirmed a total of 38 troops were killed. He said the fatalities were 31 American special forces and 7 Afghan soldiers.

Karzai has expressed his condolences, a statement from his office said. Saturday's crash is the deadliest incident for coalition forces since the NATO-led war began in late 2001.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2011-08-06

[coma]

Time to pack up and go home. Spend the money on fixing the economy and leave the shit hole that is Afghanistan to the Afghans. How many more of the boys have to die?

[flying]

Time to pack up and go home. Spend the money on fixing the economy and leave the shit hole that is Afghanistan to the Afghans. How many more of the boys have to die?

Well Obama did promise green jobs.

Who would of thought it would be camo green

[kennkate]

Time to pack up and go home. Spend the money on fixing the economy and leave the shit hole that is Afghanistan to the Afghans. How many more of the boys have to die?

Totaly agree. We should never have got into that in the first place. That war will never be won. how will it be won ?

By winning hearts and minds what a load of crap. Never in a month of sundays will that happen.

You and I bouth know that if by some miracle The Taliban laid down the arms and accepted defeat.

It would only be a mater of weeks after the western forces left to get back to the start line

Complete waste of money and peoples lives, It's sad but IMO true.

[Scott]

One offensive and argumentative post removed

[uptheos]

Time to pack up and go home. Spend the money on fixing the economy and leave the shit hole that is Afghanistan to the Afghans. How many more of the boys have to die?

Totaly agree. We should never have got into that in the first place. That war will never be won. how will it be won ?

By winning hearts and minds what a load of crap. Never in a month of sundays will that happen.

You and I bouth know that if by some miracle The Taliban laid down the arms and accepted defeat.

It would only be a mater of weeks after the western forces left to get back to the start line

Complete waste of money and peoples lives, It's sad but IMO true.

Yep, who gives a toss about winning hearts and minds out there and it's costing a fortune in money and lives.

Bring them home, not just from there but other places.......who from Afghanistan is going to attack USA?

Karzai is already stashing his loot for when the troops leave.

Edited August 7, 2011 by uptheos

[craigt3365]

Another incredibly insensitive post has been removed an two members are now on posting holidays. Please show some respect here. :jap:

[maidu]

The most current Afghan war started when the Americans chose to bomb Al Qaeda who were being harbored by Taliban there.

It's obviously a mess, as are all protracted wars. Yet, similar to the two recent Iraq wars, one has to weigh the pros and cons. In both countries, there is the ongoing problem of women being treated less than dogs and girls not being allowed to attend school. Ok, perhaps not reasons enough to wage war, but dire concerns nevertheless. Of course, there are many other concerns overall.

The people who argue the West should keep their noses out of the Middle East have to consider that, by doing so, westerners will have no influence on the ongoing grave oppression of people (particularly females) there. We can talk about oil supplies (yet, there's no oil in Afghanistan) and poppies, and selling arms, and keeping bad guys from getting too much power, etc., but I think it comes down to the issue of whether westerners can sit by and do nothing, while Middle East countries continue to torture females (and generally self-destruct).

[Steely Dan]

The most current Afghan war started when the Americans chose to bomb Al Qaeda who were being harbored by Taliban there.

It's obviously a mess, as are all protracted wars. Yet, similar to the two recent Iraq wars, one has to weigh the pros and cons. In both countries, there is the ongoing problem of women being treated less than dogs and girls not being allowed to attend school. Ok, perhaps not reasons enough to wage war, but dire concerns nevertheless. Of course, there are many other concerns overall.

The people who argue the West should keep their noses out of the Middle East have to consider that, by doing so, westerners will have no influence on the ongoing grave oppression of people (particularly females) there. We can talk about oil supplies (yet, there's no oil in Afghanistan) and poppies, and selling arms, and keeping bad guys from getting too much power, etc., but I think it comes down to the issue of whether westerners can sit by and do nothing, while Middle East countries continue to torture females (and generally self-destruct).

I have some sympathy with your reasoning, but I would observe that we are not even stopping the subjugation of women, honor killings and the like in western Countries for fear of upsetting our ethnic minorities. I would be completely in favour of setting up a civilized society for Afghanistan but fear that just isn't possible, as Samuel Huntington observed it might take centuries to move people out of one civilization and give them the values of another, hence the blowback we are suffering now.

[maidu]

The most current Afghan war started when the Americans chose to bomb Al Qaeda who were being harbored by Taliban there.

It's obviously a mess, as are all protracted wars. Yet, similar to the two recent Iraq wars, one has to weigh the pros and cons. In both countries, there is the ongoing problem of women being treated less than dogs and girls not being allowed to attend school. Ok, perhaps not reasons enough to wage war, but dire concerns nevertheless. Of course, there are many other concerns overall.

The people who argue the West should keep their noses out of the Middle East have to consider that, by doing so, westerners will have no influence on the ongoing grave oppression of people (particularly females) there. We can talk about oil supplies (yet, there's no oil in Afghanistan) and poppies, and selling arms, and keeping bad guys from getting too much power, etc., but I think it comes down to the issue of whether westerners can sit by and do nothing, while Middle East countries continue to torture females (and generally self-destruct).

I have some sympathy with your reasoning, but I would observe that we are not even stopping the subjugation of women, honor killings and the like in western Countries for fear of upsetting our ethnic minorities. I would be completely in favour of setting up a civilized society for Afghanistan but fear that just isn't possible, as Samuel Huntington observed it might take centuries to move people out of one civilization and give them the values of another, hence the blowback we are suffering now.

'civilized' in the western sense of the word - may not be needed for Afghans. 'vive la difference' as the French would say. Let them go ahead and drag dead goats around by men on horseback (one of their sports) or whatever, but don't oppress and kill their daughters and wives. Even animals don't do those sorts of things. I don't think we want to see malls and whitening cream thoughout Afghanistan. I wouldn't mind seeing them drop their destructive religious dogma, though I'm not in favor of trying to bomb them to their senses (doesn't work, anyway).

[flying]

but I think it comes down to the issue of whether westerners can sit by and do nothing, while Middle East countries continue to torture females (and generally self-destruct).

All fine & well but really is the invasions making any of that better? If so how about Somalia & many other places? Should we start kicking in their doors too?

Old saying is remove the mote from your own eye before trying to remove it from others less you blind the innocents.

Self destruct is a term that can easily be applied to the USA today....sadly a once great nation at the end of its greatness cycle.

If one were to look for a reason for it...The Military Industrial Complex we support would have to be near the front of the line.

Afghanistan is where old once great empires go to die. Look at history & see who preceded the US & what was their prize.

Alexander the Great lost his greatness there...The British, The Russians & many others. The USA is just the latest in a long line of failed attempts.many

[maidu]

I agree somewhat. I used to think the US and western gov'ts should go and do clean up where they see dire messes. As I get older, I lean towards letting countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Mozambique, Ugunda, Burma, PRK, Somalia and others stew in their own juices. I always believed in discussions rather than dropping bombs. Still sad to see such ignorance prevailing in those countries. Mainstream news makes such overwhelming big deals about people problems, yet the rest of the natural planet is suffering also. Just one of a million ways in which ignorant people are harming the planet: when sore loser Saddam torched the oil wells in Kuwait - Some saw oil revenues going up in smoke, I saw a vast ecosystem blacked out. The sooner this one most destructive species lessens its numbers, the sooner animals and plants can go about populating their planet. In a twisted way, the easing of human over-population is happening - by wars.

[flying]

when sore loser Saddam torched the oil wells in Kuwait - Some saw oil revenues going up in smoke, I saw a vast ecosystem blacked out. The sooner this one most destructive species lessens its numbers, the sooner animals and plants can go about populating their planet. In a twisted way, the easing of human over-population is happening - by wars.

Agreed & I thought the same when they used corexit to sink the oil in the gulf after the BP disaster.

To this day none have shown us what the ocean floor looks like in that region.

[geriatrickid]

Believe it or not, there has been a lot of social progress in Afghanistan. Child mortality, malnutrition and access to medical care saw its largest improvements during the UN mandated foreign intervention. The numbers of children attending school skyrockected as well.

People want instantaneous results and unfortunately, the change in society that is needed in Afghanistan will take time and a continuing foreign presence and funding. The reality though, is that from a cost benefit perspective, the costs of delivering all of these improvements is not offset by the incremental benefits. Until, the real problem, Pakistan is addressed, there is no point in continuing this intervention. Let Karzai and his corrupt cronies deal with it. The situation in Afghanistan would have stabilized had Pakistan not been a haven and supporter of the Taliban. The real enemy has been Pakistan. Let the Indians and soon the Chinese deal with Pakistan. The biggest mistake the west ever made was funding the corrupt brutal nation of Pakistan.

[coma]

Believe it or not, there has been a lot of social progress in Afghanistan. Child mortality, malnutrition and access to medical care saw its largest improvements during the UN mandated foreign intervention. The numbers of children attending school skyrockected as well.

People want instantaneous results and unfortunately, the change in society that is needed in Afghanistan will take time and a continuing foreign presence and funding. The reality though, is that from a cost benefit perspective, the costs of delivering all of these improvements is not offset by the incremental benefits. Until, the real problem, Pakistan is addressed, there is no point in continuing this intervention. Let Karzai and his corrupt cronies deal with it. The situation in Afghanistan would have stabilized had Pakistan not been a haven and supporter of the Taliban. The real enemy has been Pakistan. Let the Indians and soon the Chinese deal with Pakistan. The biggest mistake the west ever made was funding the corrupt brutal nation of Pakistan.

Are you joking ?? What planet are you from dude. Instantaneous results ? I am not sure if you have been keeping up on current events but this is the tenth year we have been fighting that war and we just had the biggest one incident body count in those ten years. Please, please, please. Results. What results? They don't want us there!!!

Maybe some of these images may jog your memory and help you paint a picture on what is to come in Afghan

.

[Credo]

I have to agree with GK on most points. However, I believe the time is near for exiting Afghanistan. It is seldom possible to take a country as messed up as Afghanistan and implement any real sustainable change. That change ultimately comes from within and from those who are allied with the country.

Once the troops leave, they will rise or fall on their own merits. The Taliban will only be defeated by the Afghani/Pakistani people from which they recruit members.

[Scott]

One off-topic post has been deleted

The topic is pretty clear; stick to it.

[craigt3365]

As usual, we're headed off into troubled waters. Please, no conspiracy theories. There's plenty of other websites for that. Several posts and a few replies have been deleted.

[uptheos]

It is seldom possible to take a country as messed up as Afghanistan and implement any real sustainable change. That change ultimately comes from within and from those who are allied with the country.

Substitute Afghanistan for USA.

Time to say bye bye to these barren god forsaken places........over to you Mr Karzai.

[Pakboong]

Apparently, the entire Navy Seal team that got Osama was killed in the crash. A blog that includes the CNN video releasing the details below.

http://theintelhub.com/2011/08/06/seal-unit-supposedly-responsible-for-osama-hit-killed-in-copter-crash/

[craigt3365]

Apparently, the entire Navy Seal team that got Osama was killed in the crash. A blog that includes the CNN video releasing the details below.

http://theintelhub.com/2011/08/06/seal-unit-supposedly-responsible-for-osama-hit-killed-in-copter-crash/

What part of this post was not understood???

As usual, we're headed off into troubled waters. Please, no conspiracy theories. There's plenty of other websites for that. Several posts and a few replies have been deleted.

Yet here we are. Warning given. No more conspiracy theories! :jap: :jap: :jap: :jap: :jap:

[koheesti]

Apparently, the entire Navy Seal team that got Osama was killed in the crash. A blog that includes the CNN video releasing the details below.

http://theintelhub.c...n-copter-crash/

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_US_AFGHANISTAN_SEALS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-06-12-07-17

U.S. officials tell The Associated Press that they believe that none of the Navy SEALs who died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan had participated in the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, although they were from the same unit that carried out the bin Laden mission.

[Steely Dan]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/08/in-memoriam-august-6-2011.html

In memoriam, a sad loss of life of some brave men. There are certain questions which deserve an answer though. How did the Taliban manage to bring down a helicopter with a rocket propelled grenade? Were they tipped off?

Who tipped off the enemy? Was this payback for OBL? Why did the Obama adminstration leak the details of the OBL raid and name the Seal Team? Back in May, Defense Secretary Gates said that releasing information about the OBL raid threatened the safety of Navy SEALs and their families, making them targets for terrorists.

[maidu]

whether coalition forces leave next week or in 5 years, the Taliban will re-take control of Afghanistan. The Afghani people are simply not able to withstand such a mean-spirited group which threatens their lives (and family members) if they don't comply. Similar trends are happening in all similarly-afflicted countries, even Indonesia, where Muslim extremists are insinuating themselves like a disease.

[geriatrickid]

Believe it or not, there has been a lot of social progress in Afghanistan. Child mortality, malnutrition and access to medical care saw its largest improvements during the UN mandated foreign intervention. The numbers of children attending school skyrockected as well.

People want instantaneous results and unfortunately, the change in society that is needed in Afghanistan will take time and a continuing foreign presence and funding. The reality though, is that from a cost benefit perspective, the costs of delivering all of these improvements is not offset by the incremental benefits. Until, the real problem, Pakistan is addressed, there is no point in continuing this intervention. Let Karzai and his corrupt cronies deal with it. The situation in Afghanistan would have stabilized had Pakistan not been a haven and supporter of the Taliban. The real enemy has been Pakistan. Let the Indians and soon the Chinese deal with Pakistan. The biggest mistake the west ever made was funding the corrupt brutal nation of Pakistan.

Are you joking ?? What planet are you from dude. Instantaneous results ? I am not sure if you have been keeping up on current events but this is the tenth year we have been fighting that war and we just had the biggest one incident body count in those ten years. Please, please, please. Results. What results? They don't want us there!!!

Maybe some of these images may jog your memory and help you paint a picture on what is to come in Afghan

Social development takes several generations. One need only consider the eradication of small pox or the campaign against child malnutruition in Thailand to understand that point. Yes, 10 years have gone by. However, the first few years were spent trying to establish some conditions in which aid organizations could get their feet on the ground without having the workers being sent home in body bags. 10 years is nothing when it comes to education, health initiatives amd social services. Look at how long it took to get cell phone coverage and the electrical grid built in in North America and Australia.

One helicopter went down. Yes, it is a large loss of personnel, but in the context of military battles, it is nothing. This in no way diminishes the loss, but during campaigns in WWII and Korea this was what was lost in a few minutes. Westerners have become used to the shock and awe of air campaigns which minimize coalition casualties. However, in situations like Afghanistan there is a need for boots on the ground. Yes, the loss of highly trained personnel and someone's father/son/husband/comrade is a terrible outcome, but in terms of military operations and overall capacity the losses are insignificant. The fact that casualties have been contained is testament to the concern for protecting the troops, advanced medical care available and the quality of troops deployed. The issue is whether or not Afghanistan is worth helping. My view is that it is now a wasted effort because the west cannot afford a 20 year commitment. There are conservatives and liberals that will disagree with me.

,

[flying]

22-25? of the 30 appear to be the seal unit that claimed the OBL raid in May

mixed reports coming in on US television

Edited August 7, 2011 by flying

[Pakboong]

The classification of Seal Team #6 is so restricted, we would never know if they took casualties.

[Steely Dan]

The classification of Seal Team #6 is so restricted, we would never know if they took casualties.

But we did 'know' they took out OBL.

[Pakboong]

The classification of Seal Team #6 is so restricted, we would never know if they took casualties.

But we did 'know' they took out OBL.

So we are told.

[flying]

The classification of Seal Team #6 is so restricted, we would never know if they took casualties.

But we did 'know' they took out OBL.

Delta Force would disagree as they killed him in 2001 at Tora Bora

Wait.....The critics will say where is the body?

Wait 2......The same can be said for the recent claim