yup. it turns into a fight every night. luckily so far i have gotten him to go home, but it is after hours of his pleading and my explaining again that i do really care about him but i don't think he is right for me and i want to move on.

I think this may be part of your problem. I suspect he thinks you're sending contradictory signals. Men aren't usually complicated enough to understand them

Yes, (Thai?) guys tend to "khao khang tua eng" (be biased towards themselves), taking any little positive sign and magnifying it to convince themselves that they are still a big part of your life/heart and belong there.

Ahem ladies, shall we change the name of the thread to "hot men of SE Asia"? I am up for it but I can just imagine the response from certain members of the forum!

Woah girlx, can't believe I got half way through he thread before realising that you were talking about a different situation to the current one. They are spookily similar and I think that's definitely something you should keep in mind when getting your next man. To be honest the whole thing makes me really angry. Who on earth does he think he is making your life so difficult just because he can't have what he wants. He f*cked up on numerous levels. You gave him a chance and explained to him rationally what you were doing and he still f*cked up again. You quite rightly dumped him. What a fricking baby to behave the way he is now. He cannot accept the consequences of his actions and this gives him an emotional age of about 4. I should know, I teach 4 and 5 year olds and even in the 5 year olds I see a better acceptance of when they have to accept punishment for their actions. You have talked about how this guy is very smart, but I am sorry I do not see anything smart in his actions. Although I have heard stories like this in the past, I also know a lot of break ups that end amicably (of sorts) in Thailand. Someone brought up the issue of face, and that he is trying to save it by trying not to lose you. To be honest I think he is now losing it. When I broke up with my ex (Thai, lives on the same beach as girlx's ex), he was fine about it to me, but went to my friends saying how much he missed me - but to my face it seemed important for him to maintain his dignity. To be chasing after me and begging me not to leave would I think involve him losing more face than doing what he did. I think in your case it is much more a personality issue than a cultural issue.

I think you should completely forget the idea of staying friends with your ex. Yes it does sometimes work, but the majority of the time, it doesn't. When you break up with someone (especially if it is you doing it) you always feel like you want to stay friends - I should know, I've dumped all my boyfriends. But often they do not want this, and in actual fact a little later down the line, you soon realise you don't either. Knock this idea on the head...it is only a way of you not wanting to cut the last thais (gettit!) of your relationship. You've had the balls to come this far so why not go the whole hog.

Unfortunately I would say you do have to move if you do want a clean break, at least for a while. But not off the island - this is not one of the Corleones we are talking about. If he seriously keeps pestering once you have moved house then call the police. Why the hel_l not? This guy is already forcing you from your house, why let him hold you to ransom? Would you let a stranger do what he is doing to you? You owe him nothing girlx so don't let him think you do. Once again explain to him in very clear and simple terms what the consequences will be if he doesn't desist in bugging you, make a few small lifestyle changes to ensure you can get a clean break (that beach is just way too small to hold two recent exes) and then get on with your life. (DISCLAIMER - I am in no way being biased...you'll know what I mean!)

Be strong. You don't want him in your life so he will just have to deal with it - in the words of Sir Mick "we don't always get what we want.". So lump it.

No one likes being dumped. Male of female, Thai or foreigner. Think back to the days when you were the one who had that feeling of rejection. Then throw in the fact that in Thailand there are cultural issues, eg face, finances (in all reality girlx you're probably "a good catch" to the average Thai guy), and the problem gets accentuated.

I used to be someone who always tried to be and remain friends with everyone, no matter what, even after break-ups. Realistically that's less possible in Thailand.

I didn't like doing it, but the best way ( I learnt after mistakes ) is simply cutting things off bluntly, politely but firmly - clean break. No ifs, no buts, and certainly don't retrace your steps in any way. Much easier said than done though. Trying to be nice and maintain friendly contact here can just drag things out, so longer term you do more harm than good trying to be nice. As for cash hand-outs, consider a one-off (if anything) and never again.

It's in both of your interests long term to move on. Unfortunately Thais generally are better living in the moment, now and short term. Hence you need to take action in the moment, now and in the short term. Otherwise your Thai partner doesn't give it the attention you do, and little changes if you try and ease it away.

One thing worth considering is laying all the blame on yourself, to let them save a little face. They're very particular about their relationship circles: family, social and outer circles. Plus Thais have a habit of hearing what they want to here, and you don't want to be sending mixed messages (compounded by cultural misunderstandings) and false hope.

Another key point will be in your next relationship. Thais can be more possessive in general because of cultural issues. Personally, I've no problems with people having ex's. I'd even like to maintain friends with my own. Thais don't necessary see it the same way: i.e they see inner/family circle, social circle and rest of the world again. Your ex will be in the outer circle/rest of the world in your new guy's perspective. It will only lead to misunderstandings and complications if you maintain contact and friendship with the ex. Many Thais struggle to understand why you would want to maintain contact if they're not in the first two circles, or "shouldn't be". You have to make the choice. So you might as well start now. Visualize the future and begin with the end in mind.

I hate to say it, but I've become tougher in Thailand, as regards many relationships. You have to, and you have to prioritise. Not easy, but in the long term often best all round. Thais often don't think long term, so the onus is even more on you to get it right as soon as possible.

Edited February 6, 200818 yr by fletchsmile

Woah girlx, can't believe I got half way through he thread before realising that you were talking about a different situation to the current one. They are spookily similar and I think that's definitely something you should keep in mind when getting your next man.

ha, in some ways they are... the first guy was a straight up gigolo, this one is not after what i can give him really, he is just crazily obsessive.

To be chasing after me and begging me not to leave would I think involve him losing more face than doing what he did. I think in your case it is much more a personality issue than a cultural issue.

definitely. he's a bit wacko. he has even said "you will have to call the police to get me to leave". thing is, there are no police to call. last night he parked his motorbike outside my house so all the neighbors would think he was here. at least he wasn't in actuality! it's really hard to hold out though. i can lock him out and ignore him but eventually i do have to leave the house!

Unfortunately I would say you do have to move if you do want a clean break, at least for a while.

i think you're right and i have been thinking of moving on from thong nai pan anyway. thanks for the advice, i know you're not biased.

Another key point will be in your next relationship. Thais can be more possessive in general because of cultural issues. Personally, I've no problems with people having ex's. I'd even like to maintain friends with my own. Thais don't necessary see it the same way: i.e they see inner/family circle, social circle and rest of the world again. Your ex will be in the outer circle/rest of the world in your new guy's perspective. It will only lead to misunderstandings and complications if you maintain contact and friendship with the ex. Many Thais struggle to understand why you would want to maintain contact if they're not in the first two circles, or "shouldn't be". You have to make the choice. So you might as well start now. Visualize the future and begin with the end in mind.

yeah, i have had several relationships in my life and always end up being friends with my exes. we never were in such close proximity after the break up though. and there is definitely a cultural difference with thais. the thing is, i do want to be friends with him, but not like this, not with him controlling my life.

I hate to say it, but I've become tougher in Thailand, as regards many relationships. You have to, and you have to prioritise.

yep my best friend just wrote me a very harsh email saying i am too weak and soft in relationships and that the thais will always walk all over me. guess it's true.

No one likes being dumped. Male of female, Thai or foreigner. Think back to the days when you were the one who had that feeling of rejection. Then throw in the fact that in Thailand there are cultural issues, eg face, finances (in all reality girlx you're probably "a good catch" to the average Thai guy), and the problem gets accentuated.

I used to be someone who always tried to be and remain friends with everyone, no matter what, even after break-ups. Realistically that's less possible in Thailand.

I didn't like doing it, but the best way ( I learnt after mistakes ) is simply cutting things off bluntly, politely but firmly - clean break. No ifs, no buts, and certainly don't retrace your steps in any way. Much easier said than done though. Trying to be nice and maintain friendly contact here can just drag things out, so longer term you do more harm than good trying to be nice. As for cash hand-outs, consider a one-off (if anything) and never again.

It's in both of your interests long term to move on. Unfortunately Thais generally are better living in the moment, now and short term. Hence you need to take action in the moment, now and in the short term. Otherwise your Thai partner doesn't give it the attention you do, and little changes if you try and ease it away.

One thing worth considering is laying all the blame on yourself, to let them save a little face. They're very particular about their relationship circles: family, social and outer circles. Plus Thais have a habit of hearing what they want to here, and you don't want to be sending mixed messages (compounded by cultural misunderstandings) and false hope.

Another key point will be in your next relationship. Thais can be more possessive in general because of cultural issues. Personally, I've no problems with people having ex's. I'd even like to maintain friends with my own. Thais don't necessary see it the same way: i.e they see inner/family circle, social circle and rest of the world again. Your ex will be in the outer circle/rest of the world in your new guy's perspective. It will only lead to misunderstandings and complications if you maintain contact and friendship with the ex. Many Thais struggle to understand why you would want to maintain contact if they're not in the first two circles, or "shouldn't be". You have to make the choice. So you might as well start now. Visualize the future and begin with the end in mind.

I hate to say it, but I've become tougher in Thailand, as regards many relationships. You have to, and you have to prioritise. Not easy, but in the long term often best all round. Thais often don't think long term, so the onus is even more on you to get it right as soon as possible.

That was a very articulate and culturally sensitive response fletchsmile. Good job!

thanks bambina. he gets hurt very easily but he bites back (he can be very mean). i feel like his mother (and who wants that in a relationship?). i don't think he will leave unless i withdraw all support but i wonder if it possible to keep a friendship? honestly, thus far it hasn't worked, he always comes back pleading.

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. Cut him loose and ignore him, anything else WILL get his hopes up. Guaranteed. Save yourself a lot of time and aggravation.

Woah girlx, can't believe I got half way through he thread before realising that you were talking about a different situation to the current one. They are spookily similar and I think that's definitely something you should keep in mind when getting your next man.

ha, in some ways they are... the first guy was a straight up gigolo, this one is not after what i can give him really, he is just crazily obsessive.

But they are the same. Both of them were relying on you for something. The first - hard cash, the second - your emotional support (you brought up the mum word right). Time to dust off that old copy of "Codependent No More" I feel.....

i think that the thing we have to be careful of in any relationship is that we are both in it for the same reasons. after reading many posts by girlx, i have noticed that in the beginning, this guy was just a casual thing that grew into a relationship of sorts. it appeared to me that you werent in it for the long haul, but he obviously was. im assuming that it just went on too long to do anything about it, and i do understand this.

i am not criticizing you girlx, but i think that once any of us realise that we are in a relationship for different purposes, we do have to question that relationship and make a call then and there on it.

ko phang ngan is a small island and if you were to remain there i would assume that it will be difficult for you to live your life in the way you want to (by that i mean having a certain level of freedom) if he is hanging around and stalking you. if you allow him to do this, he will have the impression that this is acceptable behaviour, and that there may be a chance for the two of you as you are allowing him to 'protect' you (as i am sure that he sees it that way).

as you have been posting a lot recently about moving away to another location, i would say that this is the time to do it. the area you live in is a very small place, and i do not see you escaping his attentions whilst you both remain there.

why not consider a new location and see it as fate playing its hand?

yeah, i just gave notice to my landlord and am leaving at the end of the month (mssabai we will chat). you are all right, i need to cut it off, it is a co-dependent thing. argh it is hard because i care about him and he cares about me, but sometimes there is just not that needed balance and things get too crazy and it doesn't work. like i said, i am not so good at rejecting people, especially in close proximity. but time to be "hard". thanks for all the tips.

Find him a boyfriend and let his breakup with you.

yeah, i just gave notice to my landlord and am leaving at the end of the month (mssabai we will chat). you are all right, i need to cut it off, it is a co-dependent thing. argh it is hard because i care about him and he cares about me, but sometimes there is just not that needed balance and things get too crazy and it doesn't work. like i said, i am not so good at rejecting people, especially in close proximity. but time to be "hard". thanks for all the tips.

Hee hee. I love chucking the codependancy thing around, it's always getting chucked at me! I think you will find that once you have made the break, that your feelings for him are more like ghosts of the feelings you had before. Everytime I have broken up with someone I have never been able to imagine not having them around to talk to, but then I do it and I feel so much lighter and I barely even notice cos I am spending so much time rediscovering the things that I wasn't able to do in a relationship - going off to see friends at a moments notice, going out dancing till dawn and not having to explain where I am, flirting (in a way that is not acceptable in a relationship!) It's often months down the line when I realise what I really miss about them, and then it is more like a nostalgic reminiscence - a nice thing rather than a mourning.

I think you will feel great after this

I had a similar experience when I first came to Thailand. I went on one date with a Thai guy and decided it wasn't going to work but he wouldn't leave me alone. He'd come round to my house late at night ringing the doorbell, phone me all the time, and once he even climbed over my fence to knock on my window when I was asleep. I made sure I never talked to him or let him in the house, and ignored the phone calls and he finally got the message. It took about a month to get rid of him completely. I think it was just the way he was, though, and I don't think all Thai guys are like that.

If you're breaking up with someone I think it's best for both of you to have very little contact for a few months at least, and then when your emotions have cooled down you can see whether it's possible to have a friendship.

I reckon the best way to break with a chap is to deliver the “you’re a really nice guy” speech. I have to say that I myself have been the recipient of this speech on one or two occasions. In fact I have come to recognise girls get a certain look in their eye as they are about to deliver it.

Nowadays by the time they get to the “nice guy” bit of the sentence I have already packed my bags and called a taxi.

thai men are persistant; and there is no such thing really as 'still be friends'... its all or nothing... and thai men when in their persistant mode can be very very nasty...

and what people do in small closed communities; well, on kibbutz we just do avoidance behaviors: when in line at the super, (my ex runs it) i would choose the other line... it took two years to get me used to buying condoms for whne i was dating and he would ring them up on the cashier....

u find out really quick who's friends are who's... people polarize real quick..

develop thick skin for glances and looks behind your back

watch your step when u first start dating again...

but with thais... i would be much more paranoid: thai men are tempermental, not verbal but act on their feelings with no delayed satisfaction or waiting to talk about it... from past threads, it seems that a large amount of thai men get very nasty when involved in a break up... even confrontational... probably depends on what background the guy comes from and his personality type... thai men are mean and nasty when thrown over... best is to get new boyfriend and let him muscle the other guy out....

... > anon says this, not me....

bina

Edited February 7, 200818 yr by bina

yeah the #1 most repeated advice to me has been "get a new man"! but i am the pickiest person on earth (believe it or not) and there is no other man here i am interested in so it isn't as easy as all that.

the house i was going to move to on the other side of the island has just fallen through since it can't get high speed internet (which i need for work), so for now i am going to stay in the village. we'll see how it goes. i don't lock him out because i don't want to deal with the ensuing fights (through the window), but i haven't let him stay at my house past 8p despite his whining. i am patient but firm on this issue, i keep saying "i will be your friend, but not your girlfriend, that is the only choice you have"... and i think eventually he is going to get bored hitting up against the same wall and give up and accept it. especially when the next wave of tourists hits and there are pretty girls to flirt with again.

it is pretty interesting to learn the dynamics of having a relationship (with anyone) in such a small place!

girlx,

thai men for the most part DO NOT BELIEVE IN BEST FRIENDS BUT NOT LOVERS.... either u are, or u are not, his girlfriend. u must just cut him off.

when i made a decision to stay with anon, i cut off all contact with the whole thai group of men here. it hurt me, and they also felt hurt, but afterwards (two years down the road, married and tempers have cooled), the guys that are still here all say that what i did was the best.and that a thai woman would do the same. and they understood. and dont blame me. and i still keep 'distance' (like a teacher with her students or an employer with employees, and not so much like a sister/mother/friend like i was) and formality... the few thai women ive met have told me i did the best thing also.

the few relationships that were very short lived and were with thai men also (well, the one other one beside the mia noi long term one) had the guy following me, singing to me, leaving me puppy/ heart hallmark style cards for me, seeing me in the store and buying me soda and ciggies, buying my kids chocolate (this was 5-6 yrs ago)... and when he realized that the one time we went on a 'date' was just that, he fell apart... it even affected his work and his relationship

with his friends.

and i learned a valuable lesson.

he took a one time nice date and made it into a full time relationship (and he had a wife at home, i learned later) ..

even recently the few guys that remember me from two years ago still try once in a while to invite me to dinner with them all. until one time, p. asked me if anon comes home during the week also. i said yes. i never received an other invitation again. so i understood where the invite was leading to. and this was by a very quiet sweet man who through all the times, good and bad, had stood by me and helped me. thai are incorrigible romantics and get blinded by their feelings and just run with them and they obsess.

i really do think its a cultural thing in the way they deal with intense feeling. i've never had israelis or americans do the equivalent of climbing in back window, or phoning all hours or showering me with small gifts or just general persistence. its seems to me that most westerners would have got the clues fairly quickly. our clues and their interpretation of the clues are just very different. its like the 'girls say no and mean yes' kind of conversations. thai men like to pursue. its the girls job to 'run' and be pursued. the more she runs, she must be 'virginal' and worth pursuing. and also becomes sort of 'property' maybe. not sure about that but it does, regardless of generalizations, seem to be a pattern with thai men.

having said that, there is a very nice thai man on a moshav near here who had stayed over here one night since we felt he was lonely. my daughter (the army girl) was polite and nice to him, showing him her artwork and in general being pleasant. well, he has called me and anon already and asked to speak with her again. she's really really not interested. she was polite and firm on the one phone call she did speak with him. so now its every weekend... so anon had to say that she has a boyfriend and they are engaged. the phone calls stopped.

so there u go.

well u all understand what i mean,

Edited February 9, 200818 yr by bina

totally agree with you bina. the hard part is cutting off when you are unable to avoid each other every day (he lives right behind me).

2- buy him a bus ticket home and tell him don't let the door hit his ass on the way out

I would go for option "2." I can personally attest that it works well with Thai girls so maybe likewise with boy[toys] too.

Edited February 10, 200818 yr by jonniebkk

that option doesn't apply to this 2nd boyfriend, who isn't a boy toy like the first and will continue to live in the same village.

i don't lock him out because i don't want to deal with the ensuing fights (through the window), but i haven't let him stay at my house past 8p despite his whining. i am patient but firm on this issue, i keep saying "i will be your friend, but not your girlfriend, that is the only choice you have"... and i think eventually he is going to get bored hitting up against the same wall and give up and accept it. especially when the next wave of tourists hits and there are pretty girls to flirt with again.

This will NEVER happen girlx! He will never ever get this message as long as you keep letting him hang out with you. He will always have hope that because you still want to be friends, that means you still like him which means you might want him as a bf again later on. Men (in love/lust) don't have the ability to differentiate between friendship and relationship. You probably get the guilts if you lock him out but this will drag on for eternity otherwise. Why are there fights through the window? Can't you shut the doors and windows (while he's around) and just ignore it and not reply...if you keep interacting with him, there's still hope for him as he'll try anything to get any type of reaction to keep the 'relationship' going. Been there before, cutting off all ties is the only way.

you are probably right. ugh, i don't know what to do. i am still trying to find a way to leave the village.

As others have said, you need to cut him off totally and unamibigiously. No "friend"option.

This might be a good time to go run some errands in Bangkok or elswhere for a while, and don't answer if he calls. May need be get a new number.

yeah yeah, i tried that already, but at this point i can't do it again, the US economy (and my jobs) are suddenly too unstable for me to be frolicking in bangkok and paying 5x more than i do for accomodation in my village. i know now that basically, if i stay in the village i either need to fight him off all the time or just try to make it work with him until something else distracts him. otherwise i need to leave completely and no looking back. thanks for all the advice. and be careful dating people in small villages if you plan to remain in them!

yeah yeah, i tried that already, but at this point i can't do it again, the US economy (and my jobs) are suddenly too unstable for me to be frolicking in bangkok and paying 5x more than i do for accomodation in my village. i know now that basically, if i stay in the village i either need to fight him off all the time or just try to make it work with him until something else distracts him. otherwise i need to leave completely and no looking back. thanks for all the advice. and be careful dating people in small villages if you plan to remain in them!

girlx, I haven't contributed to your thread to date but I find myself asking myself why is this causing such a big problem. I have never had a Thai boyfriend so I cannot share any experiences etc. However, regardless of nationality, if this guy is causing your life such a misery, I think you have to become more hardfaced and cut him out of your life completely.

Bina mentioned in an earlier post about cutting off contact - I appreciate from what you have said he lives behind your house - BUT methinks you have gotta get TOTALLY hardfaced!

No smiling/talking/picking up the phone. Even if he is outside your window going "Yoo hoo" - Ignore him - like he doesn't exist for you. Yeah he's gonna be p**d off - still, it's not your problem. It seems from his continued actions, you're gonna have to be cruel to be kind.

I think that based on your posts and what you have written about his behaviour, you have to accept and realise that you can't be friends with him and have a calm, peaceful life. Just my 2 cents worth - hope I have not been too harsh but Jeez, enough is enough.

IMHO, You need to move on and live your life, regardless if he wants or doesn't want to or want you to.

He wasn't married to you, he didn't have kids with you, therefore he has no claim on your life. It's over - tutto finito! If he isn't grown up enough to be friends, well, his loss.

PLENTY of other good guys around and you need to start enjoying life and meeting guys again without his shadow over your life.

Edited February 11, 200818 yr by Andiamo

Hi Girlx,

Don't mean to be barging in on the "ladies" forum (have the same feeling like when I accidentally go into the girl's bathroom--which I actually did the other day, but that's another post) but as a Thai male, I wanted to share my perspective on things (that is if you don't mind).

About the obsessive thing, I think that is more attributable to his personality than Thai culture. People are people, all over the world, wherever you go. Some handle break ups well, and are calm and you can be friends with them, some people get angry, and some people just refuse to let it go. It's just who you are and how you handle situations. And I think he is one of those that just won't let go easily.

Where Thai culture can come in is that it can magnify and intensify his underlying personality. And when I say that, I specifically mean 'face', and losing it. I have read other posters (sorry I can't remember the name and am too lazy to hit the 'back' button) say that he has lost face by chasing after you. But I think how 'face' comes into it can be read in another way, and his actions are a result of not wanting to lose face.

If you think about it, you guys were together for a while. Most likely he has introduced you to his family, parents, etc. You already share the same friends. And, on top of that, you are supporting him financially, so he's also losing his gravy train.

Look at it from this perspective, now he's got to tell his friends and family that--in essence--you were too good for him. Or that he was not good enough for you. (Yes, I know we humans would express this in different words, but in all reality a dumping means 'I can do better than you', or 'I would rather be by myself than with you') He's probably told his parents, friends, and family that you two were serious and it was going to last and all. And now he's got to go back on that and tell them that you dumped him. Why did he park his motorcycle by your house? So that the neighbors didn't know that you two were no longer an item. Now think about face.

The way to 'save' face is to get you back. And I think that his efforts are also motivated by not wanting to lose face. Especially since you share friends and live in a small geographic area together. So while he may be obsessive to begin with, the idea of not wanting to look bad is also going to add gasoline to the fire, if you understand what I mean.

On top of that, Thai society is "more male oriented" (to put it politely) than in the West. Thai men generally want to be in control, and for you to dump him is emasculating him. (BTW, from my experience Thai men are not actually in control; Thai women are, and they are very adept at manipulating men to do what they want while still letting the man *believe* he is in control--but that's another post too.)

Let me give you another example of what "face" can do.... There is a famous TRUE story of a Thai woman who caught her man (forgot whether husband or boyfriend) had been unfaithful to her. She cut off...ummm..."a piece of his anatomy" and stuck it in a rice cooker. Lorena Bobbit made headlines in the West doing the same thing, but in Thai culture--not to say "mai bpen rai" but it is more understandable. He made her lose "face" by being with another woman. She wasn't good enough for him. In order for her to save face, she had to do some slice and dice.Same things with all the fights with Thai men that are in the "Thailand News Clippings". 99% of it begins with someone 'losing face', through insult or what have you.

When a Thai 'loses face' something must be done. Pure and simple, no "if ands or buts". By dumping him, he has lost face. He has further compounded the 'loss of face' by trying to get you back. Put yourself in his shoes, what are the only alternatives available to him to 'save/recover face'. One is to try and get you back. The other is probably to do something to you. And the fact that he's parked his bike outside your house, and told you to call the cops to make him leave is, if not actually crossing the line, fast approaching it. (BTW I have never, ever in my life ever told an ex girlfriend to call the cops, or stayed long enough that she had to ever threaten to call the cops on me.)

Taking everything into account, my advice would be the same as what most others have said on this thread. Get away. Cut contact. If you try and cushion the blow, you will only give him false hope. And I fear that that false hope may escalate the situation. Cut him off. Let him cool down. Maybe he will find someone else and forget about you. And maybe in the future when he has cooled down, yes you can be friends. But to tolerate him, and allow these intrusions IS sending him mixed messages, that he will intepret to mean "she wants me back". And he will not stop until that is accomplished. And it actually hurts him because he can't "move on" when there is still a possibility of getting back to you.

Right now, I think cutting him off is your only way out. I would be worried about your safety if you allow him to intrude on your space. If you allow it, it will only tell him that "yes that's ok". And, trust me, he will try and push it further. So PLEASE just get away.

Good luck to you.

Great answer Sub! You should join in the conversation more often...seems like you have a lot to say

but that's another post too

!

At last........... a Thai man - please post more often Submaniac

Very good post submaniac, it makes a lot of sense! I agree, post more often

Can you give some other examples what Thai people most often resort to if they lose face in order to restore it, like in a break-up scenario?

You said something must be done. One example you gave of a girl mutilating the guy who left her. Another example of the more serious kind I would believe would be murder, for example a guy killing the new lover of a girl that left him. Are there any less severe solutions to restore face, what could they be?

How does money come into play? If for example a girl loses face because her long time boyfriend left her, she might try to restore face by getting him to support her financially, in that case how does it work, how much is paid (in relation to her usual income/rent/whatever he contributed while they were together)? I assume it would most often work in an unbureaucratic way in Thailand as opposed to the courts in the West?

I think the losing face concept (the importance of other peoples opinions to a Thai person) is the cause for a lot of misunderstandings between the different cultures.

Thai people are brought up to ask many other people or at least one older person before making any decision and their opinions will influence their actions, they do not decide many things alone and think only about what other people think of them.

Many foreigners are brought up to think independently, parents often say "Don't worry what the others think, you alone have to know what is good for you. You can make your own decision, you are old enough".

In my opinion, while it's great to have the approval from the people around you for whatever you do and be in harmony with everyone else, in my opinion those other people who are not directly affected/involved often know only part of the actual circumstances, one side of the story, they are missing information to make a decision based on the case. They apply general concepts and ethics based on assumptions that might not be correct especially in modern times where female/male roles can be greatly reversed due to income / nationality.

welcome to the ladies forum submaniac. great post. coming from a thai man, its exactly what was needed here. pop in any time you like!