Economy And Job Outlook

[kbtoys111]

Hi All,

Just registered and new to the forum. I just came back from Thailand and absolutely love the culture, people, places, food there.

My question is how is the job prospect out there these days? I'm targeting Bangkok. I currently work in the IT security field for a large, renowned Investment Banking firm.

I've been reading up in the forums but didn't see too much on this topic.

Any info or help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Kb

[Heng]

Your mileage will vary. IMO, business is good, life is good. However you'll always get the "imminent collapse of the economy (*because of Thaksin* optional)" diatribe from a lot of folks as well.

[TRIPxCORE]

The question in your post and the title of the thread are sort of different questions so I will try to answer both.

You said you just came back from Thailand, loved it and now want to come here to work? Seems awfully expedient decision-making IMO. Perhaps you would want to ponder about it that some more, visit here some more and learn about LOS some more before cementing a decision as substantial as this one. Job market in LOS for foreign people is quite difficult. Any job that can be given to a Thai will go to a Thai. Thailand doesn't want foreigners coming here and taking all the jobs away from the indigenous. The only good job you will get, emphasize the word good, is a job that the company cannot find a Thai to do. If you have special skills that are rare, then you have a good chance at a job.

How is the Thai economy? Rolling along nicely from what I see. Glance this over if you'd like:

Thai central bank estimates 4.25-4.75 per cent growth in 2005

Bangkok (dpa) _ The Bank of Thailand (BOT) has raised its economic growth rate forecast for the Thai economy this year to 4.25 to 4.75 per cent, up from its previous 3.5 to 4.5 per cent, based on a robust export performance, media reports said Saturday.

Suchada Kirakul, BOT's Senior Director of the Domestic Economic Department, told the state-run Thai News Agency (TNA) that the outlook for the Thai economy had improved in the third quarter when healthy exports were reported in the automobile, computer and electronics sectors.

``The BOT has also raised estimated export growth rate for the entire 2005 to 17 to 18 per cent,'' Suchada said.

She added that the country's total imports had begun to drop since the third quarter, thanks to a high-level of accumulated stock of oil, steel and other raw materials.

The central bank projected that Thailand's trade deficit would be around 8 to 9 billion dollars in 2005, while the current account deficit would not exceed 3 to 4 billion dollars.

The country's average inflation rate this year was forecast to stay around 1.5 to 2.0 per cent, she said.

[kbtoys111]

The question in your post and the title of the thread are sort of different questions so I will try to answer both.

You said you just came back from Thailand, loved it and now want to come here to work? Seems awfully expedient decision-making IMO. Perhaps you would want to ponder about it that some more, visit here some more and learn about LOS some more before cementing a decision as substantial as this one. Job market in LOS for foreign people is quite difficult. Any job that can be given to a Thai will go to a Thai. Thailand doesn't want foreigners coming here and taking all the jobs away from the indigenous. The only good job you will get, emphasize the word good, is a job that the company cannot find a Thai to do. If you have special skills that are rare, then you have a good chance at a job.

Hi thanks for the reply

More about my history: I've been to Thailand a total of 3 times now in the past 5 years. I'm actually an American born Thai, parents are both Thai and moved to the US before I was born. I was raised all my life here, but I'm fluent in Thai and can read and write ok.

In terms of job experience, I've been in the IT industry for almost 6 years, with specialization in Security, but have all-around experience in networking and systems. I make a decent living in New York City working for a large investment banking firm in their IT department.

I've surfed around but haven't really gotten job prospect information in my area. So anyone with the similar background please share your input. Thanks!

[jbaldwin]

You will earn at least 10 times as much working in IT in New York than in Thailand. Would it not be better to work on a western salary for perhaps 3 months a year and use the money earned to live the Thailand the rest of the year. This would give you more money and more free time to enjoy Thailand than working full time over here

[kbtoys111]

You will earn at least 10 times as much working in IT in New York than in Thailand.  Would it not be better to work on a western salary for perhaps 3 months a year and use the money earned to live the Thailand the rest of the year.  This would give you more money and more free time to enjoy Thailand than working full time over here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I figure that much, yet remember it's cost of living differences. I'm looking for a completely different lifestyle, so I'd rather move there completely. I guess a good first step might be to start contacting US companies out there with open positions? I have no experience doing such job types as working 3months out of the year....unless it's contract work.

[The_Moog]

I'm looking for a completely different lifestyle,

If that change of lifestyle involved teaching English, I think you might be in for a very pleasant surprise, workwise.

[TRIPxCORE]

I figure that much, yet remember it's cost of living differences.  I'm looking for a completely different lifestyle, so I'd rather move there completely.  I guess a good first step might be to start contacting US companies out there with open positions?  I have no experience doing such job types as working 3months out of the year....unless it's contract work.

The amount of money you would make in Thailand compared to New York would be so paltry that you might just die of shock. The only foreign people I hear of making good money in Thailand, and the definition of good money is all subjective mind you, are people hired by large foreign companies and sent to LOS on a contract or people owning their own successful business. Otherwise the jobs a foreigner is even lucky enough to obtain here is going to pay sums of money that would make you laugh.

If you really want to think about doing this, the only advice I could give you is to study up on all multi-nationals with Asian operations and see if they have job openings in Thailand. Be creative when doing this. The diversity of companies operating in LOS in some capacity might surprise you. The other thing you can try is hitting up all the international job websites and browsing through them. Something similar to Monster.com, which has Asian jobs on it as well.

Just as a side thought, if finding a job in LOS turns out to be a futile exercise, perhaps looking for a job in a nearby country would yield better prospects and keep you close enough to LOS to stay there half the time.

Good luck to you all the same. I still think you're making a hasty decision without knowing enough about the place though. Yes, you are Thai, but really you're not. You're an American and we have a completely different culture and way of doing things in America. The differences between cultures will sometimes drive a person up the wall. Just browse through this forum and read what some of the foreign people living here say about Thailand. You might not like what you read.

[Heng]

The question in your post and the title of the thread are sort of different questions so I will try to answer both. 

You said you just came back from Thailand, loved it and now want to come here to work?  Seems awfully expedient decision-making IMO.  Perhaps you would want to ponder about it that some more, visit here some more and learn about LOS some more before cementing a decision as substantial as this one.  Job market in LOS for foreign people is quite difficult.  Any job that can be given to a Thai will go to a Thai.  Thailand doesn't want foreigners coming here and taking all the jobs away from the indigenous.  The only good job you will get, emphasize the word good, is a job that the company cannot find a Thai to do.  If you have special skills that are rare, then you have a good chance at a job.

Hi thanks for the reply

More about my history:  I've been to Thailand a total of 3 times now in the past 5 years.  I'm actually an American born Thai, parents are both Thai and moved to the US before I was born.  I was raised all my life here, but I'm fluent in Thai and can read and write ok. 

In terms of job experience, I've been in the IT industry for almost 6 years, with specialization in Security, but have all-around experience in networking and systems.  I make a decent living in New York City working for a large investment banking firm in their IT department.

I've surfed around but haven't really gotten job prospect information in my area.  So anyone with the similar background please share your input.  Thanks!

Yeah, I can confirm that the salary difference will be 8-10 times as I have relatives (I'm Thai from the US, same as yourself,..... Thai ABC actually) on both sides of that coin. A major difference though is that the "easy life" gets to you a lot faster than in the west. Maid, driver, house in a walled compound, rental real estate on the side... all a LOT more affordable here in the LOS. If you're like a lot of Thais over there, you probably also at least own a home and perhaps a condo. If you rent those out, that will easily put another $1000-2500+ a month (depending on how big your home is... perhaps a lot more) in your revenue stream each month.

As for the adjustment, as long as you have any minor ability to adapt to your environment, it's not too difficult.

Edited October 30, 2005 by Heng

[steveromagnino]

You will earn at least 10 times as much working in IT in New York than in Thailand.  Would it not be better to work on a western salary for perhaps 3 months a year and use the money earned to live the Thailand the rest of the year.  This would give you more money and more free time to enjoy Thailand than working full time over here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I figure that much, yet remember it's cost of living differences. I'm looking for a completely different lifestyle, so I'd rather move there completely. I guess a good first step might be to start contacting US companies out there with open positions? I have no experience doing such job types as working 3months out of the year....unless it's contract work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Definitely you would be extremely unlikely to be able to match incomes working for someone here; however the way things are set up, being a Thai gives you massive advantages over many of the expats who may have equal/better experience than you as well as the Thailand born Thais. I know my appeal to my boss is along the same lines; the lack of fluency and reading are overcome by the ability to know when to speak out of turn; when to be creative and so on, yet without being scary or rude or saying the wrong thing to the wrong person as the previous non-Thais working around here often tended to be.

There are a ton of opportunities here, and investment banking background; well I would be looking to see if you can find some sort of step sideways into Asia using your existing company for starters.

Because you have no work permit or language issues, there are plenty of jobs; it just may be hard to get a salary near to what you earn now.

Assuming you have at least 4 years of experience, the good/bad news is that over 100k is highly possible but more than 150k for someone not so old is going to be tough.

What other aspects of IB do you know; there may be more chance to be doing deals than straight IT stuff; the market for IB here is strongly built on relationships and so on AFAIK rather than straight number crunching (which I guess there are cheap analysts to do anyway). If you could fit into the greasy middle man role, well that is where the money and the importance of IB seems to be, at least from what I've seen.

And further to that, I have been offered work in IB - I know nothing of finance or the like, simply because finding a greasy middle person (I am sure IBers called it something else ) that can broker the deals and whatever is an important part of the IB.

Regarding the exact salary difference.... well as a VP marketing, I'd be guessing in NY I could earn probably what, $120k USD a year? Here similar job, similar experience, similar responsibilities, perhaps 100 - 200k a month which is $30k -$60k; about 1/2 that amount. Not quite 10 times.

But factor in cost of rent, food, and so on; well depending on your lifestyle you might be better off here than there.

You have to play to your strengths; do not under estimate how strong the US education + work experience + inherent Thai-ness combination can be here. Thailand needs people like you!

[ilyushin]

The economy is on thin ice to say the least. Doc Tox isn't all the trouble , but most. His finger is in every opie meaning not enough to go around.

If you are looking for a job "forget it" and enjoy LOS as you remember it during your travels.

Really the only way to make it in Thailand is create your position or cash cow.

[TRIPxCORE]

  Thailand needs people like you!

Thailand needs lots of different things as well as people but something always gets in the way of their willingness to accept it. It's called pride.

[kbtoys111]

Awesome thanks for many of the responses, positive and negative, to my questions. I have a few ABT's (American born Thais) out there working for American and Thai companies I need to track down, so I'll get first hand input on this.

I work for an IB but know that they have a few consultants/emps out in Bangkok. The hq for my work, however, lies in NYC, so I'll have to look around and explore more.

I'm not rushing to move, I'll most likely work in the US a few more years, save up loads, and move on over. Thanks!

[steveromagnino]

  Thailand needs people like you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand needs lots of different things as well as people but something always gets in the way of their willingness to accept it. It's called pride.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably an element of truth; the problem is having a bunch of uncooth uneducated foreigners wandering around complaining about everything and offering unwanted opinions without constructive suggestions has somewhat immunised many Thai people to trusting advice from many foreigners.

Much like a person might not necessarily trust the advice of that kind hearted Nigerian in Soi Nana who has a small fortune in escrow and needs just a little start up capital to free the money up.

In both cases, the hopeless idiots f&*k it up for the people who could actually make a difference. I know many of the Thai staff here think the western guys working for supply companies and the like are mostly incompetent and here for the loose women of questionable repute from NEP; simply because probably 80% of them actually are. It takes some time to earn respect when you are starting from a position like this; a few of the foreign suppliers we have here (and myself in some respects I suppose as a foreign born person) have earned the trust and respect to actually be listened to. And a large number of the foreigners I know are well trusted and respected and listened to with awe sometimes; but each of them has earned that respect and trust through knowing how to present their ideas; when to listen, when to shut up and so on.

And with an understanding of how Thai people think (which seems to be the difficulty for most foreigners to ever get their heads around) then some headway can be made; improvements, better for everyone and smiles all round

I consider myself to be an expert in pretty much everything (you didn't want to go down the M25, you wanted to take the M82 etc etc, Harry Enfield) but I don't think I could go most places in the world and get people to listen to me straight off. Despite my movie star good looks; white teeth and devilish grin.

You cannot just wander around spouting off with the attitude, "my idea is right, so they should listen." I cannot think of anywhere in the world that this would work. But for sure there are a fair few more hurdles here for a non-Thai speaking foreigner than perhaps an english speaking foreigner locating to a western country such as USA or UK.

[steveromagnino]

  Thailand needs people like you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand needs lots of different things as well as people but something always gets in the way of their willingness to accept it. It's called pride.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably an element of truth; the problem is having a bunch of uncooth uneducated foreigners wandering around complaining about everything and offering unwanted opinions without constructive suggestions has somewhat immunised many Thai people to trusting advice from many foreigners.

Much like a person might not necessarily trust the advice of that kind hearted Nigerian in Soi Nana who has a small fortune in escrow and needs just a little start up capital to free the money up.

In both cases, the hopeless idiots f&*k it up for the people who could actually make a difference. I know many of the Thai staff here think the western guys working for supply companies and the like are mostly incompetent and here for the loose women of questionable repute from NEP; simply because probably 80% of them actually are. It takes some time to earn respect when you are starting from a position like this; a few of the foreign suppliers we have here (and myself in some respects I suppose as a foreign born person) have earned the trust and respect to actually be listened to. And a large number of the foreigners I know are well trusted and respected and listened to with awe sometimes; but each of them has earned that respect and trust through knowing how to present their ideas; when to listen, when to shut up and so on.

And with an understanding of how Thai people think (which seems to be the difficulty for most foreigners to ever get their heads around) then some headway can be made; improvements, better for everyone and smiles all round

I consider myself to be an expert in pretty much everything (you didn't want to go down the M25, you wanted to take the M82 etc etc, Harry Enfield) but I don't think I could go most places in the world and get people to listen to me straight off. Despite my movie star good looks; white teeth and devilish grin.

You cannot just wander around spouting off with the attitude, "my idea is right, so they should listen." I cannot think of anywhere in the world that this would work. But for sure there are a fair few more hurdles here for a non-Thai speaking foreigner than perhaps an english speaking foreigner locating to a western country such as USA or UK.

One of my friends of similar age; foreigner, age under 30, has been just recently offered a new job, earning salary significantly over 200k a month total package. Since he is not from USA, he is perhaps not comparing this to a NY salary. This is a local offer, not an expat abroad style package.

There is definitely ok money out there, if you work hard, earn your reputation and particularly if you can link up with some sort of mentor who will find and open these doors for you.

[The_Moog]

If you're looking for a Desk Job, then base yourself in Sukhumvit or CBD.

If you're searching for a manual post, try Khao San Road.

[thedude]

i think the best way for you to do this is to lobby for an internal transfer to the asian operation, requesting to be based in bangkok instead of other asian cities.

if you are able to negotiate for regional responsibilities, it'll make keeping your existing package a bargain for them and a good deal for you.

you should also try other american or european IBs that operate in asia with a bangkok office. frankly i think you are in a good place because IBs pay more for just about every job even if its a cost center and not banking related. try to stay focused on your career path even if you dislodge yourself from NY.

[kbtoys111]

i think the best way for you to do this is to lobby for an internal transfer to the asian operation, requesting to be based in bangkok instead of other asian cities.

if you are able to negotiate for regional responsibilities, it'll make keeping your existing package a bargain for them and a good deal for you. 

you should also try other american or european IBs that operate in asia with a bangkok office.  frankly i think you are in a good place because IBs pay more for just about every job even if its a cost center and not banking related.  try to stay focused on your career path even if you dislodge yourself from NY.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi thanks for the reply. My IB has a small office in Bangkok, but no Major IT division, so it'll be quite difficult for an internal transfer (unless I head up a new IT division based in Bangkok....hmmm could be a good career goal!)

I'll take your good advice and look around globally....yeah I know NYC is the center of finance, but I don't want to be here all my life either. Moving my way up, saving money and hopefully going to a desired culture such as that in Thailand is one of my life goals

Edited November 1, 2005 by kbtoys111