Democrats To Target Yingluck And Surapong For Impeachment

[webfact]

IMPEACHMENT

Democrats to target Yingluck and Surapong

By The Nation

The Democrat Party's legal team will recommend for legal action against Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and Foreign Minister Surapong Towichakchaikul, MP Nipit Intarasombat said on Thursday.

The legal proceedings will be activated on suspicion that Yingluck and Surapong were involved in requesting the Japanese authorities to issue a special entry permit for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Nipit said he suspected Surapong had Yingluck's backing to help Thaksin gain entry to Japan. The incident happened before the government delivered its policy statement, he said, citing this as grounds for impeachment.

He said the main opposition party might singled out the two for prosecution in the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Office Holders.

The prosecution would be for lapse of duty as the two should have been extraditing fugitive Thaksin instead of helping him to elude punishment, he said.

-- The Nation 2011-08-18

[random]

awwww diddums

[hanuman1]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

None of this is about persuading the Thai electorate of anything. It's all about grabbing power by any means necessary. If the Dems wanted the will of the people to unseat the PTP (either through elections or protests etc) they would engage in a protracted series of accusations and investigations which would continue to keep the PTP in the spotlight and on the backfoot whilst eroding the number of people who would vote for them. That's how it's done in the countries many of us come from.

Instead, it's 'never mind the politics, feel the law!' as once again the legal system is abused to make a cheap political point that will be forgotten by the next election.

[Thaddeus]

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

And I'm fairly sure that there will be many instances happening in the not too distant future for them to do that.

This action should be the final kick in the teeth, not the first punch.

[noahvail]

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

And I'm fairly sure that there will be many instances happening in the not too distant future for them to do that.

This action should be the final kick in the teeth, not the first punch.

+1 As the saying goes, too queeeek.

[random]

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

And I'm fairly sure that there will be many instances happening in the not too distant future for them to do that.

This action should be the final kick in the teeth, not the first punch.

+1 As the saying goes, too queeeek.

No doubt PTP will use legal arguments to make it go away, just like the dems used, no need to defend yourself or deny the actions, just make sure using the legal system that you never have to admit or deny,

[wolf5370]

The prosecution would be for lapse of duty as the two should have been extraditing fugitive Thaksin instead of helping him to elude punishment, he said.

Just like the Dem government did then, erm

[Pi Sek]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

None of this is about persuading the Thai electorate of anything. It's all about grabbing power by any means necessary. If the Dems wanted the will of the people to unseat the PTP (either through elections or protests etc) they would engage in a protracted series of accusations and investigations which would continue to keep the PTP in the spotlight and on the backfoot whilst eroding the number of people who would vote for them. That's how it's done in the countries many of us come from.

Instead, it's 'never mind the politics, feel the law!' as once again the legal system is abused to make a cheap political point that will be forgotten by the next election.

We obviously don't agree on everything, but I feel this smacks of democracy, with a hint of desperation on the side.

Democracy is not the recognition of the wishes of the majority - it's representation of all views, proportional to the popularity of each given view. This recent action by PTP is not democratic as it is absolute representation of the largest minority.

Of course, it also smacks as the absolutist "Obey the Law" to which you alude, and yes I'll even agree that the force with which these statements are made do sound desperate - but the rule of Law is the precipice on which democracy is built and as such I would have to support it.

I do however agree with your summary of what an opposition party is supposed to do, and how they do it in most other countries (are you really going to put them up on a pedestal???) - but I don't agree that "it's all about grabbing power by any means necessary". Why? 1)If Yinglak and Surapong are impeached, the most likely result is that PTP will still be in government, even if just in another reincarnation. 2) When said reincarnation wins another election, perhaps Yinglak and Surapong's impeachments will lead them to not do anything that would (rightly in my opinion, but maybe not yours!) get them impeached.

[Bkkorupcountry]

I'm sure that the Dems are doing what they think is best for the country - throwing it into political turmoil, destabilising the Govt, preventing them from doing anything that might be good for the country. After all, first and foremost, the LAW must be upheld, regardless of the consequences for the country as a whole. I'm sure many posters here would agree.

[hammered]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

None of this is about persuading the Thai electorate of anything. It's all about grabbing power by any means necessary. If the Dems wanted the will of the people to unseat the PTP (either through elections or protests etc) they would engage in a protracted series of accusations and investigations which would continue to keep the PTP in the spotlight and on the backfoot whilst eroding the number of people who would vote for them. That's how it's done in the countries many of us come from.

Instead, it's 'never mind the politics, feel the law!' as once again the legal system is abused to make a cheap political point that will be forgotten by the next election.

Totally agree with that. The Dems should start checking the policies which are not exactly uncontroversial and stop just being the parliamentary front of the establishment. If they think Surapong or someone has abused their position isnt their an administration court they can file a case with and then just move on with what an opposition are elected to do? Their whole criticism of the government doesnt have to be presaged on just what one man does. And cant Abhisit get up to flooded Phitsanaloke, instead of just obsessing over the evil one, and show some sympathy with flood victims? After all the Dems do currently have a few seats in the province that are likely to be very vulnerable next election where people couldnt give a monkeys about Thaksin but could about floods.

PTP may well be assisting Thaksin behind the scenes, but they are also introducing a whole rake of policies at a time when the country needs government. The opposition seem to be doing nothing except fixating on a man when every time they mention his name it puts a further nail into their coffin where are buried their chances of ever winning an election again.

[hammered]

Basically what is happening is that PTP are indicating they are going to use popular will to undo everything the coup brought - 2007 charter - and the establishment are not confident at all (read realise they havent got a hope in hell) they can democratically beat this, so the establishment of which once again the Dems show they are part are going into desperate meltdown mode of anything we can possibly do to delay or scupper this happening.

The Dems reelecting Abhisit is turning out to be a big disaster for them sooner than anyone thought.

[scorecard]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

None of this is about persuading the Thai electorate of anything. It's all about grabbing power by any means necessary. If the Dems wanted the will of the people to unseat the PTP (either through elections or protests etc) they would engage in a protracted series of accusations and investigations which would continue to keep the PTP in the spotlight and on the backfoot whilst eroding the number of people who would vote for them. That's how it's done in the countries many of us come from.

Instead, it's 'never mind the politics, feel the law!' as once again the legal system is abused to make a cheap political point that will be forgotten by the next election.

obviously don't agree on everything, but I feel this smacks of democracy, with a hint of desperation on the side.

Democracy is not the recognition of the wishes of the majority - it's representation of all views, proportional to the popularity of each given view. This recent action by PTP is not democratic as it is absolute representation of the largest minority.

Of course, it also smacks as the absolutist "Obey the Law" to which you alude, and yes I'll even agree that the force with which these statements are made do sound desperate - but the rule of Law is the precipice on which democracy is built and as such I would have to support it.

I do however agree with your summary of what an opposition party is supposed to do, and how they do it in most other countries (are you really going to put them up on a pedestal???) - but I don't agree that "it's all about grabbing power by any means necessary". Why? 1)If Yinglak and Surapong are impeached, the most likely result is that PTP will still be in government, even if just in another reincarnation. 2) When said reincarnation wins another election, perhaps Yinglak and Surapong's impeachments will lead them to not do anything that would (rightly in my opinion, but maybe not yours!) get them impeached.

Lots of good points. Let's also remember that pt tried to attach every breath of the dems and on many occasions the pt attacks / threats of legal action had no real grounds, and let's not also forget the thug actions by the red mobs who espoused no constructive dialogue or discussion whatever in their attacks on the dems.

[rubl]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

...

One week in, still busy with it's policies the government (and Pheu Thai) finds time to deal with k. Thaksin. Smacks of desperation?

PS if the Dem's didn't call for impeachment I'm sure k. Chuwit would have :-)

Edited August 18, 2011 by rubl

[webfact]

Democrats to Petition NACC to Investigate FM

The Democrat Party says it will petition the National Anti-Corruption Commission to investigate Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul's role in pressuring the Japanese government to issue an entry visa for former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

It claims that since Thaksin is wanted by Thai courts to serve a two year jail term, the Thai government must not facilitate his travels around the world. On the contrary, it must try and bring him back to Thailand to serve his sentence.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-18

[lannarebirth]

Democrats to Petition NACC to Investigate FM

The Democrat Party says it will petition the National Anti-Corruption Commission to investigate Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul's role in pressuring the Japanese government to issue an entry visa for former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

It claims that since Thaksin is wanted by Thai courts to serve a two year jail term, the Thai government must not facilitate his travels around the world. On the contrary, it must try and bring him back to Thailand to serve his sentence.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-18

Absolutely the correct response to what is clearly misfeasance (self admitted I believe) of a public office holder. To ignore these kinds of infractions is to effectively remove the checks and balances on which a demoicracy depends. So many here think democracy is only about getting the most votes but that is but a small aspect of what a democratic government entails.

[LomSak27]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

If you can't win an elction what else you going to do

[Siripon]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

None of this is about persuading the Thai electorate of anything. It's all about grabbing power by any means necessary. If the Dems wanted the will of the people to unseat the PTP (either through elections or protests etc) they would engage in a protracted series of accusations and investigations which would continue to keep the PTP in the spotlight and on the backfoot whilst eroding the number of people who would vote for them. That's how it's done in the countries many of us come from.

Instead, it's 'never mind the politics, feel the law!' as once again the legal system is abused to make a cheap political point that will be forgotten by the next election.

Totally agree with that. The Dems should start checking the policies which are not exactly uncontroversial and stop just being the parliamentary front of the establishment. If they think Surapong or someone has abused their position isnt their an administration court they can file a case with and then just move on with what an opposition are elected to do? Their whole criticism of the government doesnt have to be presaged on just what one man does. And cant Abhisit get up to flooded Phitsanaloke, instead of just obsessing over the evil one, and show some sympathy with flood victims? After all the Dems do currently have a few seats in the province that are likely to be very vulnerable next election where people couldnt give a monkeys about Thaksin but could about floods.

PTP may well be assisting Thaksin behind the scenes, but they are also introducing a whole rake of policies at a time when the country needs government. The opposition seem to be doing nothing except fixating on a man when every time they mention his name it puts a further nail into their coffin where are buried their chances of ever winning an election again.

Apisit was in Phisanuloke last Monday visiting flood victims, the locals said the government had been slow to respond.

[hanuman1]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

...

One week in, still busy with it's policies the government (and Pheu Thai) finds time to deal with k. Thaksin. Smacks of desperation?

PS if the Dem's didn't call for impeachment I'm sure k. Chuwit would have :-)

If the variety of issues the government is currently dealing with were given a number of column inches commensurate with the amount of time they spend dealing with them, I would suggest the reports dealing with Thaksin would be significantly less in number. The fact that they are apparently 'dealing with Thaksin' to any extent at all shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who previously linked him closely to the PTP and their supporters - the single biggest block of voters in the country.

Saying that the Dems are actioning an initiative which the - some would say 'politically quirky' - Chuwit would have done anyway doesn't get them brownie points in my eyes. I wish they could just fulfill their role as opposition party - to the benefit of the country - without resorting to such grandstanding. But alas, they continue to be politically hamstrung by those that ultimately conferred whatever power they once had on them....err....IMHO.

Edited August 18, 2011 by hanuman1

[whybother]

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/11/politics/politics_30097666.php

[rubl]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems....

One week in, still busy with it's policies the government (and Pheu Thai) finds time to deal with k. Thaksin. Smacks of desperation?

PS if the Dem's didn't call for impeachment I'm sure k. Chuwit would have :-)

If the variety of issues the government is currently dealing with were given a number of column inches commensurate with the amount of time they spend dealing with them, I would suggest the reports dealing with Thaksin would be significantly less in number. The fact that they are apparently 'dealing with Thaksin' to any extent at all shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who previously linked him closely to the PTP and their supporters - the single biggest block of voters in the country.

Saying that the Dems are actioning an initiative which the - some would say 'politically quirky' - Chuwit would have done anyway doesn't get them brownie points in my eyes. I wish they could just fulfill their role as opposition party - to the benefit of the country - without resorting to such grandstanding. But alas, they continue to be politically hamstrung by those that ultimately conferred whatever power they once had on them.

The government has come with many statements as to being still busy with policies, details, wait as see, give us six months. In the mean time k. Thaksin is putting attention on himself and the Thai government through his actions. So what are we supposed to write about?

Mind you, newspapers also write about the 300Baht wage, 15,000Baht for some type of starters, rice pledging later this year and inflation which is rising steadily without the current government being seen to do much, apart from promising to pour money into people's pockets which will give extra pressure on inflation and spending power.

The opposition parties do what they should do, keep an eye on the government's antics, question, ask commissions and court for interpretation. Really annoying, but the previous opposition did the same.

(edit: add: wait till all departing and new MPs have filed their asset declaration)

Edited August 18, 2011 by rubl

[random]

Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

[hanuman1]

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/11/politics/politics_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

Edited August 18, 2011 by hanuman1

[rubl]

Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

In August 2008 k. Thaksin got permission to go watch the Olympic Games and didn't come back. He skipped bail and fled to the U.K. His conviction was on the 21st of October 2008.

[rubl]

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/11/politics/politics_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst wishing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

Although politics is trying to get people to like you enough to vote for you, there are also some other aspects to democratic functioning. I don't think the Dem's are copying the PTP in their behaviour, it's just that both adhered to certain laws, rules, regulations.

[random]

Wasn't it the dems that allowed Thaksin to leave the country in the first place after his conviction?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this

In August 2008 k. Thaksin got permission to go watch the Olympic Games and didn't come back. He skipped bail and fled to the U.K. His conviction was on the 21st of October 2008.

ah, so he was convicted in his absence, but it was the dems that had been handed power at this point and allowed him to leave? Did he need permission to leave as he was not convicted of any crime at that point? I guess part of bail conditions was to surrender his passport so he did need permission.

Also did he report to the thai embassy in Hong Kong after his conviction regarding his divorce but was not arrested while at the embassy? I seem to recall this.

I think the truth of the matter is that the dems did not want him in Thailand, they have paid lip service to it, make the people think they are doing something, but at the end of the day they did nothing about it and are now trying to use it agaisnt the current government, who will bring him back anyway, but not as a convicted criminal

[MunterHunter]

One week in, and a call for impeachment. This just smacks of desperation by the Dems.

If you can't win an elction what else you going to do

Always makes me laugh when i see these kinds of posts... "Dems are desperate", "cry cry whinge cry they cant do that cry cry cry"

How many times did PTP, whilst in opposition, try to get the PM impeached, call for vote of no confidence or use any means necessary to unseat the government? (including letting their militant hand hold the capital to ransom for 3-4months)

Legal action, however tenuous, against the government is a valid approach... PTP did it to the dems many times, now all of a sudden the Red sympathizers start calling foul and crying once the Dems employ the same tactic.

You use a weapon against your enemy, dont start crying when your enemy uses the same weapon against you...

[hammered]

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/11/politics/politics_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

I think you are right about this. It is more the complaining of people who want or expect the opposition to do a better job and for a credible alternative to the PTP to be built rather than a perenial punchbag

[jdinasia]

The job of an opposition party is to question the policies and actions of the government in order to either discredit them or gain credibility themselves.

And I'm fairly sure that there will be many instances happening in the not too distant future for them to do that.

This action should be the final kick in the teeth, not the first punch.

+1 As the saying goes, too queeeek.

Maybe, maybe not ..... if there is enough support in the Senate this could be a telling attack on the government who has stated that they would not be seeking benefits for just one person. That the government went ahead before successfully whitewashing Thaksin is a big deal, legally.

It may only be a tactic to keep the government off-balance and constantly having to explain why they are helping a fugitive sought by the Thai judicial system, or it may be more potent. I am not sure ... but it is the duty of the opposition to do exactly this type of thing.

[Cnxforever]

The democrats have learned nothing even after they lost the elections.

Instead of using their time in power to work for the country - they were and still are obsessed with Thaksin, Thaksin, Thaksin….. the Thai people are sick and tired of it!

Bombarding each other with lawsuits doesn't help the country – roll up your sleeves and do something productive for the country for crying out loud!

Who gives a dam_n if he gets a visa for Japan or not – it is entirely up to the Japanese to grant it or not.

Japan has enormous business interests in Thailand you think they would jeopardise them by refusing a visa to the ex- PM – the brother of the current PM on the grounds that he was convicted on politically motivated charges?

Not even Interpol recognized the conviction as legitimate – and did not issue an international arrest warrant because they believe the charges were politically motivated - not even to go into the "impartiality" of the judiciary in this country.

[lannarebirth]

The PTP can't really be complaining about the use Democrats use of impeachment.

http://www.nationmul...cs_30097666.php

I don't think the PTP are complaining. They probably expected it - with good reason.

All of this impeachment talk will be as effective for the Dems as it was for the PTP - ie it is just an attempt to derail the working of the rival political group with no concern towards building support among the electorate.

For the PTP the futility of calling for impeachment may not have been such a setback given their existing support among voters, but for the Dems, they really need to do better than mirroring the behavior of the PTP whilst evidently needing to bring more hearts and minds to their side.

I don't think they're mirroring the PTP. They are following the tradition of opposition parties such as exist in the west. If these charges were brought in the west, and if true, at the very least it would bring about the resignation of the minister, if not further charges. If the PM was proven to be complicit the PM would be removed. It's always sad to see people here with such a low regard for Thais that they feel they don't deserve good governance.

Edited August 18, 2011 by lannarebirth