Pig Farming

[chelsea]

Hi All, (new member) Is there anybody out there with advice on pig farming. I hope to start a pig farm for my wife and I and would appreciate any advise on the pros and cons with regards to starting up this business. We hope to purchass land near Surin in the northeast. Is it a good idea to get involved with the PC Company which supply all the needs and stock to operate or go it alone

Regards Chelsea

[eddie11]

Hi All, (new member) Is there anybody out there with advice on pig farming. I hope to start a pig farm for my wife and I and would appreciate any advise on the pros and cons with regards to starting up this business. We hope to purchass land near Surin in the northeast. Is it a good idea to get involved with the PC Company which supply all the needs and stock to operate or go it alone

Regards Chelsea

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please don't build it near my house

[chownah]

Either way the odds are that you won't make alot of money at least by western standards. People in my village sometimes raise a couple of pigs in a pen in the back yard. They usually buy the food pre-mixed in bags. They don't plan on making any money out of it but look at it as sort of a place to save their money...instead of wasting the money they buy food to feed the pig....like a piggy bank. If they do make a profit it is very small. This might have changed due to the bird flu but I don't know. The popular wisdom around here is that if you want to make money raising pigs you need to have a big operation and raise your own feed. And....don't forget....they really do stink.

[plachon]

Hi All, (new member) Is there anybody out there with advice on pig farming. I hope to start a pig farm for my wife and I and would appreciate any advise on the pros and cons with regards to starting up this business. We hope to purchass land near Surin in the northeast. Is it a good idea to get involved with the PC Company which supply all the needs and stock to operate or go it alone

Regards Chelsea

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chelsea,

Wrote a long reply on the risks and pitfalls of pig farming, but then my server went down and I lost the lot. So you'll have to make do with a much abbreviated version of the original I'm afraid.

Basically, pigs and pork are part of the free market economy, and subject to price fluctuations due to external domestic and international factors, supply and demand, etc. As a newcomer to the business, it is unlikley you or your wife will be able to get in at the top end of the pig food chain and compete with the bog boys. You'll be a small or medium size operator at the best, and subject to a lot of risk, whether you decide to got it alone as an independent raiser or becoming a contract farmer for the likes of CP (Charoen Phokpand will be only to happy to advise your wife to part with a few million baht and tie her in to their feed, antibiotics, after-sales service, etc!).

My advice, would be to go and visit say ten farmers in your area doing pigs and listen and observe. Are they making money? Are they heavily in debt? Are they contract farmers? How much investment is needed to kick off? Do they recommend trying (answer depends on whether they see you as a potential rival or not, but can be interesting all the same).

Little, black, hardy, mud-loving native pigs (moo gee) could be a good investment to try, I believe. Not much money needed up front, they're tough as bulldozers, won't eat you out of house and home, and the meat is in high demand (esp. if sold out the backdoor as wild boar (moo paa).

Other pluses in favour of pig raising are of your wife 's family has a rice mill or fish ponds, as both integrate nicely with hogs.

Good luck, but don't rush into anything, until you've checked out all the options.

[bannork]

Some years ago they changed the law so pork could be sold nationwide, previously it could only be sold in the province the pigs were raised and the price was a lot higher. As mentioned, impossible to compete with the big boys; if you have your own source of food, ie leftovers from a greengrocers, fresh market or restaurant and you're only doing it in small numbers then you could integrate it with fish farming as my neighbour feeds his bla nin pig waste and he claims they love it.

We gave up because having to buy pig feed is very expensive and although we have a small rice mill to mix the pig feed with bran it still wasn't worth it.

I'd be interested to see what snakehead fish has to say about feeding bla nin in quantities, what does he recommend? I've been feeding mine dried cow dung, my daughter said to fill up a sack and lower it in the pond, the bla nin feed off the plankton growing off the cow dung.

Edited October 31, 2005 by bannork

[ray23]

Hi All, (new member) Is there anybody out there with advice on pig farming. I hope to start a pig farm for my wife and I and would appreciate any advise on the pros and cons with regards to starting up this business. We hope to purchass land near Surin in the northeast. Is it a good idea to get involved with the PC Company which supply all the needs and stock to operate or go it alone

Regards Chelsea

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chelsea,

Wrote a long reply on the risks and pitfalls of pig farming, but then my server went down and I lost the lot. So you'll have to make do with a much abbreviated version of the original I'm afraid.

Basically, pigs and pork are part of the free market economy, and subject to price fluctuations due to external domestic and international factors, supply and demand, etc. As a newcomer to the business, it is unlikley you or your wife will be able to get in at the top end of the pig food chain and compete with the bog boys. You'll be a small or medium size operator at the best, and subject to a lot of risk, whether you decide to got it alone as an independent raiser or becoming a contract farmer for the likes of CP (Charoen Phokpand will be only to happy to advise your wife to part with a few million baht and tie her in to their feed, antibiotics, after-sales service, etc!).

My advice, would be to go and visit say ten farmers in your area doing pigs and listen and observe. Are they making money? Are they heavily in debt? Are they contract farmers? How much investment is needed to kick off? Do they recommend trying (answer depends on whether they see you as a potential rival or not, but can be interesting all the same).

Little, black, hardy, mud-loving native pigs (moo gee) could be a good investment to try, I believe. Not much money needed up front, they're tough as bulldozers, won't eat you out of house and home, and the meat is in high demand (esp. if sold out the backdoor as wild boar (moo paa).

Other pluses in favour of pig raising are of your wife 's family has a rice mill or fish ponds, as both integrate nicely with hogs.

Good luck, but don't rush into anything, until you've checked out all the options.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good Post anyone ever notice there are many more reasons here not to do something then there are to do them. Maybe the Thai have the right idea, do nothing

[bdenner]

Had a farang up here attempt it and all he kept for his efforts was the shit between his toes. It was when he couldn't afford new boots that the TGF and family kicked him out.

[32x]

The biggest problem you might come across is from the local Buddhist temple, Especialy if there is one very near by.Shouldnt be a problem if your raising the pigs then selling them on alive, but if your planning on having them killed on site you could find problems with the local monks.Speak to your Puyai before you plan on doing anything that involves killing large animals.

[RamdomChances]

Ok I'm not an expert on it , but here's my take.

Basicaly you have three ways to go. Small scale raising of pork, to be sold localy. Large scale rasing of pork, or the raising of piglets, the lats two you would really need a contract with one of the big aggro companies (read CP).

Small scale is just really that you just keep a few pigs and feed them any leftovers, and bagged food, Plachon is probably right in saying that the "black pigs" would be a better bet as the meat is in demand and will fetch a higher price.

If you want to go into it large scale you will IMHO have to get a contract with someone like CP, you will then basicaly be working for them (I wont get into the pro's and con's of that). If you are rasing meat they will supply you with pigglets and you will just keep them ( I cant remember how long for) and sell them back to the company, they will pay you for the weight increase, more or less the same system as chicken farms.

The other way you can sometimes do it with CP is to rasie the piglets, you buy the sow's off them and when they have pigglets you keep them for a month or two and sell them back to CP. I've been told that it more profitable than raising meat but not always avalible.

Both of the second options you will have to get planning permission for the farm (as they smell a lot ) and it's probably a better idea not to use your money, the banks have been throwing money into pig farms since the bird flue, get land as cheap as you can to build it on. You should'nt really be seeen as a competitor as most (90+%) of the large scale farms are tied into the big companies. The banks like giving money for pig farms as the bulk of the money is tied up in infrastructure and you get a buissiness plan from the companiy.

The best way of opeinig one in my opinion is the same as a thai family did up the road, they borowed 10 million to open a large (5 shed) pig farm, on some really bad land the had, but they skimmed money off during the build (about 3 million) bought some decent farm land, car ect. So if the farm does'nt make any money they'll just let the bank forclose lose the crappy piece of land and still be 3 mill better off

Bannork, Pla Nin are plant eaters, I thought the idea of adding any manure was to "green" up the water rather than them actually eating it. It would depend on the quantities you have stocked the pond at weather this would be enough. I've got 1000 Pla Nin and 1000 Pla DuK (cat fish) in mine and its a fair size pond. If it's not over stocked they will live to a certian extend off the natural pond life (cat fish eat the insects as well) If you want to go into it comercialy (ie 10,000 plus in my sort of sizes pond about half a rai) you will need to feed more as they will totaly exahast any life in the pond. I only give about 1 kg of fish food a day to mine and their growth rate has been prety good, but the water fills from the runoff from my farm so it's prety high in nutrients.

RC

[bannork]

RC,

I'd read about it before, apart from the neighbour who recommended pig waste, one of my brother-in-laws demonstrated how to shovel dried cow manure onto the shoreline of the ponds and the bla nin would nibble it.

Last year the wife put both bla nin and catfish in the same pond at the same time, I reckoned the catfish would eat the bla nin being voracious carnivores but she claimed that wouldn't happen if they were the same size, which was true at first, and there was enough to eat for all.

I noticed, however, that the catfish grew very fast, outpacing the bla nin, in both size and greed. Final figures for bla nin were disappointing, could they have been consumed by the catfish?

[plachon]

RC,

I'd read about it before, apart from the neighbour who recommended pig waste, one of my brother-in-laws demonstrated how to shovel dried cow manure onto the shoreline of the ponds and the bla nin would nibble it.

Last year the wife put both bla nin and catfish in the same pond at the same time, I reckoned the catfish would eat the bla nin being voracious carnivores but she claimed that wouldn't happen if they were the same size, which was true at first, and there was enough to eat for all.

I noticed, however, that the catfish grew very fast, outpacing the bla nin, in both size and greed. Final figures for bla nin were disappointing, could they have been consumed by the catfish?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bannork,

On the question of whether the pla nin are feeding on the crap itself or the bugs, beasties and plankton attracted to it, I'd say it would most likely be the latter. Esp. as far as dried cow dung goes, which has v. little nutritious value to it, but quickly attracts pond critters like shrimp and insect larvae for a feast. You probably wouldn't notice them and would assume that the fish are feeding off the cow pats instead.

But pigs and chickens over fish is another matter, and I'm pretty sure that the pla nin would be feeding directly on the crap as it falls in, not distinguishing between spilt feed and a turd (Same probably applies to the dunnies over fish ponds in China). But what the hel_l, there's probably lots of digestible nutrients in it, and tilapia are masters at converting stuff at all levels of the food chain into flesh and protein. They're often type-cast as "plankton feeders", but in fact the tilapia commonly stocked in Thailand are good all round omnivores. And the big fellas in a pond or lake get quite territorial and aggressive, snaffling small fish that get in their way. (Bit like pladuk and plachon! ) But don't think fish would form a large part of pla nin's diet, as their stomachs and guts aren't really designed to digest that kind of food.

But when the pladuk are big and the planin are small, the pladuk will be munching their way through the small fry quite happily. It helps keep the planin down, as they can be bloody prolific breeders, and soon end up stunting in an overstocked pond, unless you have some top-end predators like pladuk or plachon to keep 'em down.

[chownah]

Can weeds be thrown into a pond to feed fish? I have certain type of legume that grows wild here and I've wondered if I put some in the pond if it would help to feed the fish.

[bannork]

RC,

I'd read about it before, apart from the neighbour who recommended pig waste, one of my brother-in-laws demonstrated how to shovel dried cow manure onto the shoreline of the ponds and the bla nin would nibble it.

Last year the wife put both bla nin and catfish in the same pond at the same time, I reckoned the catfish would eat the bla nin being voracious carnivores but she claimed that wouldn't happen if they were the same size, which was true at first, and there was enough to eat for all.

I noticed, however, that the catfish grew very fast, outpacing the bla nin, in both size and greed. Final figures for bla nin were disappointing, could they have been consumed by the catfish?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bannork,

On the question of whether the pla nin are feeding on the crap itself or the bugs, beasties and plankton attracted to it, I'd say it would most likely be the latter. Esp. as far as dried cow dung goes, which has v. little nutritious value to it, but quickly attracts pond critters like shrimp and insect larvae for a feast. You probably wouldn't notice them and would assume that the fish are feeding off the cow pats instead.

But pigs and chickens over fish is another matter, and I'm pretty sure that the pla nin would be feeding directly on the crap as it falls in, not distinguishing between spilt feed and a turd (Same probably applies to the dunnies over fish ponds in China). But what the hel_l, there's probably lots of digestible nutrients in it, and tilapia are masters at converting stuff at all levels of the food chain into flesh and protein. They're often type-cast as "plankton feeders", but in fact the tilapia commonly stocked in Thailand are good all round omnivores. And the big fellas in a pond or lake get quite territorial and aggressive, snaffling small fish that get in their way. (Bit like pladuk and plachon! ) But don't think fish would form a large part of pla nin's diet, as their stomachs and guts aren't really designed to digest that kind of food.

But when the pladuk are big and the planin are small, the pladuk will be munching their way through the small fry quite happily. It helps keep the planin down, as they can be bloody prolific breeders, and soon end up stunting in an overstocked pond, unless you have some top-end predators like pladuk or plachon to keep 'em down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for all the advice Plachon, it's much appreciated, your point about planin being prolific breeders is interesting, makes me wonder if we'll have to buy new stock of planin or not next June. The pond never empties.

[RamdomChances]

Since we've moved off pig farming, to fish

My pladuk were in about a month before the pla nin so were much bigger . I was initially worried that they were all ate, but they seem to be doing fine, although it took them a while to start growing as the pla duk used to eat all the food. I've recently noticed that i've got baby fish in as well. I thought that pla duk were supposed to be really prolific breeders.

This is my first year of doing fish and I'm in two minds wether to do it on a bigger scale. I've been told that I could stock 10,000 in my pond, but that would mean heavy feeding, probably need some sort of airation and would sell them all at the same time to an agent then start again. At the moment all I do is throw a net in pick out the biggest , then we eat some and sell some from the shop ( give a fair bit away as well). It more than covers my costs and I make a little bit, plus I've got fish to eat whenever I want . I only give 5 kg of food a week ( 100 bhat) so no problems and it looks like its going to be pretty self sustaining with the babies coming through.

All in all I leaning towards just doing it the same way although it is tempting to get 10,000 in I have a feeling that the growth rates and the cost/return would not be as good. I'm still unsure that I will have water in the pond all year, although I can top it up if nessesary. I'm going to get a light put in above the pond soon to attrack all the night insects and you know those UV insect traps they are supposed to be good as well, catch the insects then put them in the pond.

As for putting in weed's I have no idea, but its good to get "vegitation" growing in the pond as it gets the "eco system" going.

RC

[ray23]

Since we've moved off pig farming, to fish

My pladuk were in about a month before the pla nin so were much bigger . I was initially worried that they were all ate, but they seem to be doing fine, although it took them a while to start growing as the pla duk used to eat all the food. I've recently noticed that i've got baby fish in as well. I thought that pla duk were supposed to be really prolific breeders.

This is my first year of doing fish and I'm in two minds wether to do it on a bigger scale. I've been told that I could stock 10,000 in my pond, but that would mean heavy feeding, probably need some sort of airation and would sell them all at the same time to an agent  then start again. At the moment  all I do is throw a net in pick out the biggest , then we eat some and sell some from the shop ( give a fair bit away as well). It more than covers my costs and I make a little bit, plus I've got fish to eat whenever I want . I only give 5 kg of food a week ( 100 bhat) so no problems and it looks like its going to be pretty self sustaining with the babies coming through.

All in all I leaning towards just doing it the same way although it is tempting to get 10,000 in I have a feeling that the growth rates and the cost/return would not be as good. I'm still unsure that I will have water in the pond all year, although I can top it up if nessesary. I'm going to get a light put in above the pond soon to attrack all the night insects and you know those UV insect traps they are supposed to be good as well, catch the insects then put them in the pond.

As for putting in weed's I have no idea, but its good to get "vegitation" growing in the pond as it gets the "eco system" going.

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seems to me you are happy with what you have going and no middle man why change anything?

[plachon]

Can weeds be thrown into a pond to feed fish?  I have certain type of legume that grows wild here and I've wondered if I put some in the pond if it would help to feed the fish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure they can, so long as you've got herbivorous fish in there Chownah. Fish like pla tapien love soft leaved plants like morning glory (pak boong) and pak grachet and are good converters of plant matter to protein, but pla nin are more into phytoplankton than large leaved plants (macrophytes). Chopped cassava leaves, and leucaena (dton gratin) are other great foods for fish, as they have high protein contents, so I assume your legume will be fine too. If the fish don't actually eat it directly for some strange reason, then it will quickly be rotted down by bacteria and enter the food chain by another route, so nowts wasted in a pond! Even if you have those horrible stinking weeds called "sab seua" around the edge of the pond, they can be hoyked in as a green manure and are supposedly rich in phosphate, also helping fuel a plankton bloom that the fish will appreciate.

The basic message is, just about anything green and soft, can be chucked in a pond quite safely (which includes goose crap!).

Other fish worth considering, as fast growers low on the food chain, are grass carp (no prizes for guessing what they eat!) but like other Indian carp do not make great eating and are quite bony or pacu from S.America. Known locally as "pla joramet nam jeud", I tried a few this year in a half rai pond and was impressed by just how fast they grow, seemingly feeding on a mix of plant and animal matter, a bit like pla nin. They look a lot like piranha, with similiar shape and red bellys, and even have quite a formidable set of teeth, but are totally harmless. They taste pretty good too, but would caution against raising them in any pond prone to flooding or where they could escape into a nearby stream, as they could potentially be quite dangerous to local species if they breed.

[phibunmike]

Thanks for all the advice Plachon, it's much appreciated, your point about planin being prolific breeders is interesting, makes me wonder if we'll have to buy new stock of planin or not next June. The pond never empties.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I bought my fish I was told they are "lady boys" - they have been sterilised so won't breed, thus ensuring the ongoing business of the fish farm I bought them from.

[bannork]

Thanks for all the advice Plachon, it's much appreciated, your point about planin being prolific breeders is interesting, makes me wonder if we'll have to buy new stock of planin or not next June. The pond never empties.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I bought my fish I was told they are "lady boys" - they have been sterilised so won't breed, thus ensuring the ongoing business of the fish farm I bought them from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We were told the same,but not by the seller, I wonder what technique they use, the fish being so small when we bought them. Someone said something about electrolysis, but I've really no idea.

[chownah]

Thanks for all the advice Plachon, it's much appreciated, your point about planin being prolific breeders is interesting, makes me wonder if we'll have to buy new stock of planin or not next June. The pond never empties.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I bought my fish I was told they are "lady boys" - they have been sterilised so won't breed, thus ensuring the ongoing business of the fish farm I bought them from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We were told the same,but not by the seller, I wonder what technique they use, the fish being so small when we bought them. Someone said something about electrolysis, but I've really no idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salmon eggs will produce sterile fish if they are placed in warm water for about half an hour.....don't know if this works for the kind of fish that you bought though.

[plachon]

Thanks for all the advice Plachon, it's much appreciated, your point about planin being prolific breeders is interesting, makes me wonder if we'll have to buy new stock of planin or not next June. The pond never empties.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I bought my fish I was told they are "lady boys" - they have been sterilised so won't breed, thus ensuring the ongoing business of the fish farm I bought them from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Boy ladies" might be a more accurate description! The baby fish aren't so much sterilised, as fed hormone (methyl testosterone) which turns them all into lads or "toms".

Sex-reversed tilapia, as they are known, grow faster than mixed sex stock, as apparently they spend more time eating and less time procreating.

[Pond Life]

Hi All, (new member) Is there anybody out there with advice on pig farming. I hope to start a pig farm for my wife and I and would appreciate any advise on the pros and cons with regards to starting up this business. We hope to purchass land near Surin in the northeast. Is it a good idea to get involved with the PC Company which supply all the needs and stock to operate or go it alone

Regards Chelsea

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chelsea,

Wrote a long reply on the risks and pitfalls of pig farming, but then my server went down and I lost the lot. So you'll have to make do with a much abbreviated version of the original I'm afraid.

Basically, pigs and pork are part of the free market economy, and subject to price fluctuations due to external domestic and international factors, supply and demand, etc. As a newcomer to the business, it is unlikley you or your wife will be able to get in at the top end of the pig food chain and compete with the bog boys. You'll be a small or medium size operator at the best, and subject to a lot of risk, whether you decide to got it alone as an independent raiser or becoming a contract farmer for the likes of CP (Charoen Phokpand will be only to happy to advise your wife to part with a few million baht and tie her in to their feed, antibiotics, after-sales service, etc!).

My advice, would be to go and visit say ten farmers in your area doing pigs and listen and observe. Are they making money? Are they heavily in debt? Are they contract farmers? How much investment is needed to kick off? Do they recommend trying (answer depends on whether they see you as a potential rival or not, but can be interesting all the same).

Little, black, hardy, mud-loving native pigs (moo gee) could be a good investment to try, I believe. Not much money needed up front, they're tough as bulldozers, won't eat you out of house and home, and the meat is in high demand (esp. if sold out the backdoor as wild boar (moo paa).

Other pluses in favour of pig raising are of your wife 's family has a rice mill or fish ponds, as both integrate nicely with hogs.

Good luck, but don't rush into anything, until you've checked out all the options.

Plachon, you mentioned little black pigs, have you got any more info on these.

Are they similar to Vietnamese Pot bellied ?

Not interested in commercial, just a couple for the BBQ.