Bts Cards Expire Why?

[bkkjames]

Pretty self explantory actually but am pissed off this am. Bought a 45 trip pass - had 6 trips left, lady says expired.

Why do they expire! They have my money already, its not like I am going to take up someones place if the card doesn't expire.

I could see a 'monthly pass' expiring but why a prepaid card?

Rant beginning.

[beano2274]

they expire after 30days.

When you pass the machine after swipping your card it tells you how many trips left and also in the bottom left corner the expiry date of those trips.

Edited August 19, 2011 by beano2274

[bkkjames]

I realize they expire after 30 days, wasn't really the question was it?

Anyways, next time I am on day 30 with 6 trips remaining, I will make a morning of it-entering and exiting 6 times just to ensure I get what I paid for.

[beano2274]

why not calculate how many trips you actually need, you can buy 25 if you think 45 is not gonna get used.

If you had read the card showing all the prices you would have seen that they expire after 30 days, wouldn't you?

[BuckarooBanzai]

I remember some phone cards used to do the same thing - any credit expire after 30 days - maybe some still do.

Just a cheap shot way to force more sales. No other good reason for doing so.

The HUB of 'Businesses Against Customer Care'.

[robblok]

Actually there is an other reason maybe not as pressing as the ones you mentioned.

Its easier to calculate your obligation if things expire after a certain date. Else you will have a hard time making your balance sheets when you never know how many of these cards with value are still floating around.

Not defending it in anyway because i would be pissed too.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Actually there is an other reason maybe not as pressing as the ones you mentioned.

Its easier to calculate your obligation if things expire after a certain date. Else you will have a hard time making your balance sheets when you never know how many of these cards with value are still floating around.

Not defending it in anyway because i would be pissed too.

I thought about this before I posted and concluded that since it is not a monetary obligation this could not be considered a valid reason. It really costs them nothing to honor the purchased seat.

[robblok]

Actually there is an other reason maybe not as pressing as the ones you mentioned.

Its easier to calculate your obligation if things expire after a certain date. Else you will have a hard time making your balance sheets when you never know how many of these cards with value are still floating around.

Not defending it in anyway because i would be pissed too.

I thought about this before I posted and concluded that since it is not a monetary obligation this could not be considered a valid reason. It really costs them nothing to honor the purchased seat.

It is a monetary obligation, in a way because if all those old cards turned up and people used them then a lot less income would be made. So it something that should be on the balance sheet.

But like i said b4 i doubt its the main reason.

edit

if they had a limitless product that did not cost a thing then you were right. But they don't the space has a value and it can be too full.

Edited August 19, 2011 by robblok

[bkkjames]

How about meeting half way-45 trips for 45 days?

[robblok]

How about meeting half way-45 trips for 45 days?

To be honest 45 trips in a month is a bit short. That means no holidays or alternative transportation at all (if you use it twice a month)

[WhizBang]

If memory serves, those trips are discounted.

You could take every trip from one end of the system to the other, in which case you would be saving a lot of money over paying cash. But you would lose money if you only went to the next station.

My guess is that the price you pay for the discount is that the card will expire in 30 days.

My current stored value card does not expire, but I pay the going rate for each trip. No discount.

So the choice is yours. Discount card with expiration, or stored value card without expiration.

[mrclough]

If it states how many trips you have left and states the expiry time then I think it is purely down to you for buying something you don't need. You bought a card which allows you 45 trips in 30 days. You are notified of the balance every time you use it.

How can you justify ranting about something that is your own fault?

You chose the card, you bought the card, YOU didn't use the card, YOUR fault!

Simple as that really. You can't blame someone else for your actions ... or lack of as far as journeys go.

[beano2274]

The cards are mostly intended for those who travel regularly on BTS, to and from work. 45 trips is 22.5 days of work, if people work Saturdays as well then easily used up.

I normally get 25 trips or just even 15, I always work out how often I need to use the card and buy the appropriate number of trips.

[bkkjames]

Out of spite (interest) I purchased one of those refillable ones today (my bts trip is only two stations anyway) and interesting to note that the value i put on it expires in 2013.

[bkkjames]

If it states how many trips you have left and states the expiry time then I think it is purely down to you for buying something you don't need. You bought a card which allows you 45 trips in 30 days. You are notified of the balance every time you use it.

How can you justify ranting about something that is your own fault?

You chose the card, you bought the card, YOU didn't use the card, YOUR fault!

Simple as that really. You can't blame someone else for your actions ... or lack of as far as journeys go.

Thanks MrClough - you are all heart

Anyways I thought that giving the BTS more money in one go for 45 trips actually makes / saves them money in the long wrong. Less transactions for their TV watching staff to do so they can concentrate on counting coins.

[lomatopo]

The OP evidently purchased a "30 Day Smartpass", for which the first condition is:

1. Trips on passes valid for 30 days.

Not sure how anyone could get stumped on that?

These 30 Day Smartpasses offer discounted pricing as a result of a per-trip pricing model and are targeted at daily commuters, with a special pass for students.

The BTS SKY Smartpass is a stored-value pass which is good for give (5) years (but easily renewed at no charge), and offers non-discounted fares. This pass offers the convenience of quick access, instead of waiting for change and using the ticket machine.

Obviously everyone would buy the discounted Smartpass if there was no trade-off/penalty; i.e. use it or lose it. Not particularly challenging to understand?

[bkkjames]

The OP evidently purchased a "30 Day Smartpass", for which the first condition is:

1. Trips on passes valid for 30 days.

Not sure how anyone could get stumped on that?

These 30 Day Smartpasses offer discounted pricing as a result of a per-trip pricing model and are targeted at daily commuters, with a special pass for students.

The BTS SKY Smartpass is a stored-value pass which is good for give (5) years (but easily renewed at no charge), and offers non-discounted fares. This pass offers the convenience of quick access, instead of waiting for change and using the ticket machine.

Obviously everyone would buy the discounted Smartpass if there was no trade-off/penalty; i.e. use it or lose it. Not particularly challenging to understand?

You could have saved your smart-mouth speech by reading some of the previous posts that pointed this out. But I guess it wouldn't have offered such a thrill for you would it.

By the way, the per trip pass offers the same conveniences as the Smartpass in terms of quick access etc but you already knew that.

The trade off / or incentive I as I would put it is that we give the BTS much more money in one go - hence the discount. Even the most simple-headed economist could figure out that it's better to have 1 person pay 900 baht at the start of the month versus 30 baht over 30 days in terms of interest, staff labor, wear and tear on machines and so on.

In the end - it's not like the BTS is going to lose money if I take 33 days to use 45 trips or if I use it up in 20 days are they? I will use it as needed and refill as needed.

"Hurry up honey, let's go ride the skytrain today cause I don't want to lose out on those 6 trips that will expire tomorrow. We can get off at Siam, walk through the station, turn-around and walk back in again and repeat 3 times - oh the joy!".

[BuckarooBanzai]

It is obvious some like the business model and some do not. I do not think it is a question of comprehension.

Many believe people who support public transport with longer term commitments deserve discounts without strings attached. Giving repeat customers beneficial treatment is just good business.

[bkkjames]

It is obvious some like the business model and some do not. I do not think it is a question of comprehension.

Many believe people who support public transport with longer term commitments deserve discounts without strings attached. Giving repeat customers beneficial treatment is just good business.

Agreed Buckaroo - guess when you have corner on the market - no need. Surprised they accept credit cards actually.

[lomatopo]

The OP evidently purchased a "30 Day Smartpass", for which the first condition is:

1. Trips on passes valid for 30 days.

Not sure how anyone could get stumped on that?

These 30 Day Smartpasses offer discounted pricing as a result of a per-trip pricing model and are targeted at daily commuters, with a special pass for students.

The BTS SKY Smartpass is a stored-value pass which is good for give (5) years (but easily renewed at no charge), and offers non-discounted fares. This pass offers the convenience of quick access, instead of waiting for change and using the ticket machine.

Obviously everyone would buy the discounted Smartpass if there was no trade-off/penalty; i.e. use it or lose it. Not particularly challenging to understand?

You could have saved your smart-mouth speech by reading some of the previous posts that pointed this out. But I guess it wouldn't have offered such a thrill for you would it.

By the way, the per trip pass offers the same conveniences as the Smartpass in terms of quick access etc but you already knew that.

The trade off / or incentive I as I would put it is that we give the BTS much more money in one go - hence the discount. Even the most simple-headed economist could figure out that it's better to have 1 person pay 900 baht at the start of the month versus 30 baht over 30 days in terms of interest, staff labor, wear and tear on machines and so on.

In the end - it's not like the BTS is going to lose money if I take 33 days to use 45 trips or if I use it up in 20 days are they? I will use it as needed and refill as needed.

"Hurry up honey, let's go ride the skytrain today cause I don't want to lose out on those 6 trips that will expire tomorrow. We can get off at Siam, walk through the station, turn-around and walk back in again and repeat 3 times - oh the joy!".

You still seem unable, or unwilling, to grasp the pricing/packaging concept in use by the BTS.

"Even the most simple-headed economist could figure out that it's better to have 1 person pay 900 baht at the start of the month versus 30 baht over 30 days in terms of interest, staff labor, wear and tear on machines and so on."

Assuming an average per trip price of 30 baht, then yes a stored-value rider or a single-ride customer would pay 900 baht for 30 trips. A 30 Day Smartpass customer would pay between 600 and 690 baht (of which they might have paid between 345 and 900 baht "up front".)

The BTS may also be under some obligation to offer discounted pricing for commuters and students.

Again, if the 30-Day Smartpass had no restrictions on use then everyone would buy one, and the BTS would generate less revenue. So yes, in a way, the BTS would "lose" money.

I guess I'm surprised some are so challenged by the concepts?

[bkkjames]

Loma - I will make it short cause I gotta catch the BTS , I realize this is their policy, I just question why.

Technical reason? I doubt it. It's because they say, we are the BTS and if you don't like it, don't use it more or less.

Hence why we never have seen a 30 day unlimited pass I guess.

Have a good weekend.

(now I will go top up my smartpass by 100 baht using my AMEX) will report back if I face any issues.

Edited August 19, 2011 by bkkjames

[WhizBang]

<br />Out of spite (interest) I purchased one of those refillable ones today (my bts trip is only two stations anyway) and interesting to note that the value i put on it expires in 2013.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yeah, ok, it expires in 2 years, not 30 days. Sorry if I misled you.

[dantilley]

Reason is to ensure that only regular customers get the most benefits. A 45 trip pass averages at 20 Baht per trip, whereas a 35 trip pass is 21 Baht / trip, 25 trips / 22 Baht, etc. - but only someone who uses the BTS very regularly will buy the 45 trip pass, so they guarantee to only give the cheapest trips possible to the most frequent users.

[jybkk]

Loma - I will make it short cause I gotta catch the BTS , I realize this is their policy, I just question why.

Technical reason? I doubt it. It's because they say, we are the BTS and if you don't like it, don't use it more or less.

Hence why we never have seen a 30 day unlimited pass I guess.

Have a good weekend.

(now I will go top up my smartpass by 100 baht using my AMEX) will report back if I face any issues.

Loma gave you the reason why:

They want to encourage the people to take the BTS often and reward those who do.

It's purely business, it has nothing to do with technical reason.

Why 30 days rather than 45? Probably because they calculated that it would allow too many people to benefit from the highest discount.

It's just a matter of balancing the cost and pushing people to use the BTS more.

Maybe their calculation is wrong, who knows? Only them have the numbers.

Not so long ago, the highest discount was for 40 trips, not 45... Why changing? I guess they realized that too many people were able to use the 40 trips within a month. They rather have them buy 5 additional trips OR pay 2 bahts extra per trip if they decide to go for the 35 trip card.

Now a monthly unlimited pass would be interesting too... depending on the conditions. It would cost more than the 45 trips for sure, but how much more?

Personally, I do about 60 trips a month. I could be interested.

[lomatopo]

Now a monthly unlimited pass would be interesting too... depending on the conditions. It would cost more than the 45 trips for sure, but how much more?

Personally, I do about 60 trips a month. I could be interested.

While there is no doubt the BTS would like to get to 680,000 - 700,000 pax/day (increase ridership) they don't want to necessarily reduce, for lack of a better term, RASM (airline term; revenue per available set mile), or revenue per passenger per trip. Hence it might a long time before you see an unlimited monthly card? There are also 'transferability' issues to deal with, with an unlimited card (i.e sharing).

They also have to balance to social implications, specifically cost per ride for a wide constituency (working people, students, casual riders, foreigners/tourists). I'm not certain but I think there may be some written or unwritten commitments to keep the cost per ride low, even by way of these discounted, per-ride packages?

It may be challenging for some to come up with 735 baht (35 trips) or 900 baht (45 trips) during the monthly pay cycle. This may be 8 ~ 15 % of AGI for transpo (forgetting about the potential near-end and far-end costs: Song Taow, bus, motorcy?).

Finally, on the trips/month calculator, the 35 trip threshold might be best as an average might be 18 workdays per month, so 36 trips. Figuring that there may be some extra personal trips during the weekend (Sunday), and you can just re-up before the 30-day window. For those working 6 days per week, the 45 trip package might be the best option, but with some risk, and additional up front cost?

Edited August 19, 2011 by lomatopo

[theoldgit]

So what's going to happen if the government implements their promise of a capped 20 Baht fare?

[lomatopo]

So what's going to happen if the government implements their promise of a capped 20 Baht fare?

Can you provide an details re: this promise? What was it exactly? Was it a PTP platform issue?

I believe the BMA and BTS will be under some pressure to maintain a 20 baht/ride offering (and sub-20 baht/ride for students) after 1 Jan. 2012, if only on the 900baht/45 ride package, as a result of the Bearing extension? Not sure what may ultimately happen? In the longer 'Udom Suk' thread some well informed people have made mention of the potential pricing challenges and changes made to the ticketing machines (45 baht? 50 baht?) to reflect potential increases in segment pricing. I honestly don't remember the details.

[theoldgit]

So what's going to happen if the government implements their promise of a capped 20 Baht fare?

Can you provide an details re: this promise? What was it exactly? Was it a PTP platform issue?

I don't have my copy of their election manifesto to hand

However, when he was inspecting the Makkasan check-in facility on Friday, the Transport Minister, Sukhampol Suwannathat, is reported by the press as saying that "the flat-rate ticket price of 20 Baht for the MRT, BTS and Airport Rail Link will be introduced as promised".