andywadsworth Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I hired a builder we had a contract, quite a big job he has disappeared with a substantial amount of money. Any advice gratefully received. thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I would have thought that the police station would be a good place to start. Failing that, have a beer, cry into it a bit, and learn that Thailand has more than its fair share of crooks and incompetent losers (many of whom are farang, not Thai). Don't give any money to them that you cant afford to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebhead Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 School boy error, should have done some research before handing over cash!!! JH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyDrinker Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Indeed! Head to the nearest police station and take it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 School boy error, should have done some research before handing over cash!!! JH Sounds like it comes from the voice of experience ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlexo Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I would have thought that the police station would be a good place to start. Failing that, have a beer, cry into it a bit, and learn that Thailand has more than its fair share of crooks and incompetent losers (many of whom are farang, not Thai). Don't give any money to them that you cant afford to lose. Perfectly defined and well said! And plenty of very naive men (farangs) JL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwbkk Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Andy, do go to the police. // dfw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebhead Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 School boy error, should have done some research before handing over cash!!! JH Sounds like it comes from the voice of experience ... No, but you'd pretty much have to be a retard to do that!!! in Thailand or anywhere else.... JH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB1950 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Indeed! Head to the nearest police station and take it from there. But don't expect much, they'll take a report. It'll probably end there. Kiss you money goodbye and attribute it to an expensive education. We learn more from mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Indeed! Head to the nearest police station and take it from there. But don't expect much, they'll take a report. It'll probably end there. Kiss you money goodbye and attribute it to an expensive education. We learn more from mistakes. If you offer the BiB a little incentive to get your money back, this will get them moving...ie get the cash back donate a percentage to the Policeman's ball....obviously this is done once the money is back in your hand...not before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 School boy error, should have done some research before handing over cash!!! JH Sounds like it comes from the voice of experience ... No, but you'd pretty much have to be a retard to do that!!! in Thailand or anywhere else.... JH Certainly though you're above it all, God forbid you've never made a mistake like paying too much for a product or service.. It must suck to live life so guarded and suspicious without trust of anyone .. The guy had a contract and trust is a 2 way street as from a contractors perspective he could have just as easily screwed him by NOT paying so trust is instituted and an agreement for a deposit is made and unfortunately stolen.. Once again crucifying the VICTIM for being a bit trusting of what turns out to be a scum bag that ripped him off is just a bit judgmental.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adder Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 When doing business with builders here or anywhere for that matter . Never give them large amouts of cash. You go with them or sorce the materials yourself . If they don't like it then get a different builder . If you do not have the time to do that then tell the builder to get most things delivered between 9am &11am & you will be there to pay cash on delivery . The first thing you should do is checkout peoples recomendations. I had a builder in Patts do some work for me .He was good but I still clocked him on the con for about 8kbt . He didn't get away with it because I had agreed with him (my own suggestion) that he would get a 15k bonus if there where no probs with the work standard & he didn't try any con's .I told him I would spot any con so just don't try it. He did a con for 8k if he got away with it & lost 15k because I caught him. He did ask for it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebhead Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 School boy error, should have done some research before handing over cash!!! JH Sounds like it comes from the voice of experience ... No, but you'd pretty much have to be a retard to do that!!! in Thailand or anywhere else.... JH Certainly though you're above it all, God forbid you've never made a mistake like paying too much for a product or service.. It must suck to live life so guarded and suspicious without trust of anyone .. The guy had a contract and trust is a 2 way street as from a contractors perspective he could have just as easily screwed him by NOT paying so trust is instituted and an agreement for a deposit is made and unfortunately stolen.. Once again crucifying the VICTIM for being a bit trusting of what turns out to be a scum bag that ripped him off is just a bit judgmental.. Does n't say anywhere i am above making mistakes, they are your words. After all the horror stories you hear about unreputable builders as well as many other services had the guy done some proper research then there was a fare less likely chance of this happening. Still a school boy error.... JH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Indeed! Head to the nearest police station and take it from there. But don't expect much, they'll take a report. It'll probably end there. Kiss you money goodbye and attribute it to an expensive education. We learn more from mistakes. If you offer the BiB a little incentive to get your money back, this will get them moving...ie get the cash back donate a percentage to the Policeman's ball....obviously this is done once the money is back in your hand...not before... Always wondered about the efficacy of this advice; I mean, say in this case the builder was given B 100k in advance to buy materials and absconds with the money...so you report it to the police and give them all the details along with a 10% "finders fee" for the return of the money. So what's to stop them, if they catch up with the thief, from making their own deal of say 50 or 75% of the money for not "finding" him? As for the op's problem, yeah, if you have a valid contract, you can try the police or a lawyer if the amount warrants it, but unless it's a substantial amount of money, probably not worth your trouble. Edited August 20, 2011 by FarangBuddha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Always wondered about the efficacy of this advice; I mean, say in this case the builder was given B 100k in advance to buy materials and absconds with the money...so you report it to the police and give them all the details along with a 10% "finders fee" for the return of the money. So what's to stop them, if they catch up with the thief, from making their own deal of say 50 or 75% of the money for not "finding" him? As for the op's problem, yeah, if you have a valid contract, you can try the police or a lawyer if the amount warrants it, but unless it's a substantial amount of money, probably not worth your trouble. Your right there is nothing to stop the BiB, but as per opinion of some posters the BiB will do nothing just reporting it......lost his money, Report it with a financial incentive for the BiB attached.....he may get something back, may get nothing back, its a chance you take, you never know he may talk to the only honest bent BiB in the station....but the OP hasnt lost anything by trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnxforever Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 You would need to give more detail of what went on and how much money was involved. If you have a legally binding written, signed contract - go to the police and report it! I know it's too late now but - you should never pay more to any contractor here than the percentage of work they have already delivered - if they don't have the money to get started with a project then you are not dealing with a reputable company anyway and then it is better for you to purchase all materials yourself and just pay them for the labour. But at the end it does not really matter how you do it because they will still try to take you to the cleaners - been there - just built a house - at the end they tried to ripp me off - but it kind of backfired on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I'd start with a bar to drown my sorrow and then I'd try to move on, giving that you already made the mistake of paying the guy upfront. Sorry for your incident, btw, but at least now you learned your lesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjie Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 You would need to give more detail of what went on and how much money was involved. If you have a legally binding written, signed contract - go to the police and report it! I know it's too late now but - you should never pay more to any contractor here than the percentage of work they have already delivered - if they don't have the money to get started with a project then you are not dealing with a reputable company anyway and then it is better for you to purchase all materials yourself and just pay them for the labour. But at the end it does not really matter how you do it because they will still try to take you to the cleaners - been there - just built a house - at the end they tried to ripp me off - but it kind of backfired on them! Why would anyone start work without receiving a deposit? It would just mean they would be succeptable to not being paid and a client who can't afford a deposit is someone who can't afford the work. Choose a reputable company is surely the simplest solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Why would anyone start work without receiving a deposit? It would just mean they would be succeptable to not being paid and a client who can't afford a deposit is someone who can't afford the work. Choose a reputable company is surely the simplest solution. I did jobs for other people in Europe for over 20 years until last year. I never asked for any payment in advance, even when ordering expensive equipment for them. Many of them I worked for at a distance, and many I never even met as they lived in other countries. In that time I must have had getting on for 2000 customers. They all paid, and only one ever ripped me off, and that wasn't for much at all, just about 50% of the labour part of the bill. So I didn't really lose anything, just worked for less than normal. Put it down to karma or whatever: I've certainly never lost any sleep over it and in all that time have never felt the need to ask for a deposit. Interestingly, since being in Thailand, I have been ripped-off twice in under one year by farangs who "work" here, both with "reputable" companies. Luckily in each case it amounted to under 2000Baht, which, I suppose, just goes to show just how small the brains are of farangs who have to work here. Had they had a bit more imagination they might have got something worth having out of me. I don't lose any sleep over that either (2000B may be a big deal to them, but not to me), but I have learnt not to trust any farang in Thailand, and as of now I wouldn't give any of them 1 satang, or offer any help at all to them, or trust them in any way. Nasty, dishonest, grasping lot they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 You would need to give more detail of what went on and how much money was involved. If you have a legally binding written, signed contract - go to the police and report it! I know it's too late now but - you should never pay more to any contractor here than the percentage of work they have already delivered - if they don't have the money to get started with a project then you are not dealing with a reputable company anyway and then it is better for you to purchase all materials yourself and just pay them for the labour. But at the end it does not really matter how you do it because they will still try to take you to the cleaners - been there - just built a house - at the end they tried to ripp me off - but it kind of backfired on them! I would agree that if it involves a sizable amount then the contract should specify progress payments to be made at specified keypoints with an 10% retention to be paid at end of contract, not practical completion stage but a specified "maintenance" period (maybe three months ) so any faults can be picked up and rectified if the builder wants the retention money. This money should be deposited into an interest bearing acoount with joint signitatures for withdrawal with any interest going to the builder (not much interest in LOS tho). This way the builder should be paid fairly and the client gets what he pays for. However in LOS this is only contract management theory and there will be shortsighted ways one of the parties will try to rip the other of just for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatCage Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) It doesn't help andywadsworth but in my experience he could easily be in for 1m baht, that is the figure a builder will often require just as a deposit and to mobilize workers and dig holes for footings. Edited August 21, 2011 by CatCage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmybkk Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 A few years ago we hired a farang-owned building firm to do some renovations for a business I'm involved in. The farang guy had worked with the same Thai contractor for around 5 years - he gave the guy some money to go buy materials and after 3 days of hearing "they'll be delivered tomorrow" the Thai contractor disappeared, leaving all of his workers from upcountry on the site and in the sh*t, salaries not paid etc. etc. It turned out that the guy had some gambling debts that had mounted up and so he turned his back on a 5-year business relationship and all his workers. The bottom line is I don't think the OP should be beating himself up too much over this. It can happen to anyone. We all make mistakes. Going forward, hopefully the OP's got the guy's ID card etc. Suggest you go make a report at the station as others have suggested. Doubt you'll get your money back but at least you'll be making life a bit more difficult for the guy. I'm assuming the contract was just between you and him and that it wasn't a contract with his company? If it was with a company then file the police report and go see a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luudee Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Simple. Wait a few weeks, than ask your friends to call him, asking for some work to be done with offers he can not refuse. All he will see is $$$$. catch up with the shit when he does how up. Deal appropriate (2x4 and good police friends recommended). Always got any money +++ back ... Cheers, rudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 So your builder didn't have a office or a house? You don't know his name and from where he comes from? Did you just meet this guy on the road and he claimed he was a builder so you handed him over the cash straight away? Some more details on the story might help..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David006 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 been there done that !.small deposit only ...contractor did a runner...civil court only option but your medical bills may go through the roof...lol I went that route with a little recompense but would not bother again....took two years nearly... .think you will find that the police will tell you it is civil not criminal so you are SOL in that regard Contracts are worthless here it would seem... pay as you go is the only way methinks....steep learning curve...! do ignore the wise <deleted>... they have probably pissed more money up the wall or put into "GF's pockets" than you have potentially lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I have learnt not to trust any farang in Thailand, and as of now I wouldn't give any of them 1 satang, or offer any help at all to them, or trust them in any way. Nasty, dishonest, grasping lot they are. You must to be thai? So far i only got scammed by 1 farang, he was (is) a sponsor and have a big company, probably the biggest of his kind in Thailand, so it was a bit my fault to trust these people and give them money in advance, i reported the story at the time and it's still visible on the forum. Certainly i am in no way going to consider all americans being cheats, because of this bad apple, it was really disappointing and even upsetting, however he got his karma back, because apart from the big part of the job they lost from me (i only gave them a small job to start with as i had never tryied their services before) i also had many people interested in his "products" which have been happily re-directed to other offers and are currently still in business (...not counting the casual requests for informations on them, for which i don't know how they ended up) People with a western's education should know better than these little cheats in the end backfire much more then the little earning they get on the spot, however, someone seems addicted to this way to live..... Right, got to go out now, i will not be able to reply to any messages till tomorrow evening, enjoy your day everyones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It doesn't help andywadsworth but in my experience he could easily be in for 1m baht, that is the figure a builder will often require just as a deposit and to mobilize workers and dig holes for footings. Seeing this is the Pattaya forum I dont doubt what you say, however to put things into some sort of perspective, anyone being asked for this sort of money should walk away. IF I repeat IF you are dealing with any reputable company in Thailand you WILL NOT be asked for anything like this amount. Dont believe me, then take a walk into the offices of a company such as Landy Home, I believe they have premises in Pattaya, and have a chat with them. The contact will be broken down into about 8 or 9 stages with a percentage to be paid in advance before each stage, with the final payment to be made after taking over the home and it being to your satisfaction. This is not an anti Pattaya bash or anti builder bash, but it is to inform all who read to be careful of those who masquerade as builders and the profit margins involved, the phrase, "taking the piss" comes to mind. I am also wary of the many farang property developers, builders, construction consultants and whatever other guise they go by, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I have learnt not to trust any farang in Thailand, and as of now I wouldn't give any of them 1 satang, or offer any help at all to them, or trust them in any way. Nasty, dishonest, grasping lot they are. You must to be thai? So far i only got scammed by 1 farang, he was (is) a sponsor and have a big company, probably the biggest of his kind in Thailand, so it was a bit my fault to trust these people and give them money in advance, i reported the story at the time and it's still visible on the forum. Certainly i am in no way going to consider all americans being cheats, because of this bad apple, it was really disappointing and even upsetting, however he got his karma back, because apart from the big part of the job they lost from me (i only gave them a small job to start with as i had never tryied their services before) i also had many people interested in his "products" which have been happily re-directed to other offers and are currently still in business (...not counting the casual requests for informations on them, for which i don't know how they ended up) People with a western's education should know better than these little cheats in the end backfire much more then the little earning they get on the spot, however, someone seems addicted to this way to live..... Right, got to go out now, i will not be able to reply to any messages till tomorrow evening, enjoy your day everyones Well I aint Thai I do however subscribe to his point of view. There are many so desperate to stay here they will resort to anything to extend their stay, the fresh off the boat FNGs stand out like sore thumbs and are easy prey for these vermin. And no I havent fallen victim to them for the simple reason I dont trust any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 ^the OP hasn't even said whether the builder was a Thai or a Farang! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokay Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I was not only ripped off, but attacked by my foreman (with a shovel) and some of his workers over it. Filed a police report, and as you can expect, nothing happened. Then someone trashed the project a few weeks later, broke it to pieces inside. I knew it wouldn't go anywhere, but I filed another report anyway and the sorry SOBs in that area didn't even want to come out to look at the damage. The neighbor told us and the police he saw Ann (the foreman) and another guy come and break it up, and as you can imagine, he denied it after I pushed the sorry excuse for police to actually do their job, and that was the end of that. I finished the project up quickly and sold it off. Last I heard about Ann via the one good worker he did have, was that he stiffed all his workers for pay so they all quit. The worker also said Ann was telling people (the falang he gets jobs from) he and I had it out because I thought he as banging my lady. LOL I was going to build a site about it to name and shame this hack (Khun Ann - avoid like the plague), but after I cooled off about it I figured it wasn't worth the headache. Life will take care of him just fine with no help needed from me. Just about everyone I know here has been ripped of to some degree at least once by a contractor. Regardless of how many times you have used them in the past or if you have a contract or not, they will flush it all away over a few thousand baht or less. As many have said before me, don't invest in Thailand more than you are willing to lose, because there is a good chance that is what will happen. If not, you're one of the lucky ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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