To The Old Hands ..

[South]

This thread is for the old hands. Comments from others are welcome.

For me, this country before the advent of the internet, cheap airfares, the addition of expressways, the skytrain, the subway et al was much much better than it is now for the sole reason that it remained 'undiscovered'. Since the advent of the internet in particular, the numbers of 'foreigners/westerners' has escalated in uncountable numbers and that initial 'feel' has gone. What are your thoughts? Has Thailand lost its initial appeal?

Edited August 28, 2011 by South

[Ulysses G.]

I loved it 20 years ago and I love it now. To me it has just gotten better and better as I can finally get good International music, food, books, TV shows and movies easily.

The only thing that I miss from the old days is that other Westerners were mostly happy to be allowed to live here and did not moan, whine and complain as much.

[mca]

The only change that bothers me a little is the massive increase in the number of cars on the road and the associated traffic jams. In town every journey has doubled in time.

[richard_smith237]

Back in the day.... I remember first reading the lonely planet and wondering why after reading Joe Cummings' comments would anyone bother coming to Thailand - it was clearly better many years ago and we've missed the boat.

Having been here 15 years the major changes I have seen are

> The fluctuations in exchange rates: 35b/£ to 90b/£ and back to 40b/£.

> The skyline of many cities has changed dramatically.

> The sky train while not really improving traffic has improved many journeys across town at busy times.

> Gone are the days where I get a beach hut for B120 purely for the experience - Its comfort and aircon now !

The major change has perhaps taken place in me, It's impossible to tell if this change has occurred due to getting older or whether its Thailand's influence. I suspect a combination of both....

Am I an old timer ? I'm not old (mid 30's) - Perhaps a mid-timer...

Edited August 29, 2011 by richard_smith237

[South]

I loved it 20 years ago and I love it now. To me it has just gotten better and better as I can finally get good International music, food, books, TV shows and movies easily.

The only thing that I miss from the old days is that other Westerners were mostly happy to be allowed to live here and did not moan, whine and complain as much.

But, was it not an appeal then that you could not get 'international music, food, TV shows etc;? The 3 hour journey from Don Muang to the city, the taxis with whom you had to barter a fare. The 'looks; one used to get ..... I miss all of that.

[Ulysses G.]

It was fun as a tourist, but I missed all that modern stuff when living here full time. The only other thing that I really miss from the old days is that the night life was much wilder back then.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[South]

Back in the day.... I remember first reading the lonely planet and wondering why after reading Joe Cummings' comments would anyone bother coming to Thailand - it was clearly better many years ago and we've missed the boat.

Having been here 15 years the major changes I have seen are

> The fluctuations in exchange rates: 35b/£ to 90b/£ and back to 40b/£.

> The skyline of many cities has changed dramatically.

> The sky train while not really improving traffic has improved many journeys across town at busy times.

> Gone are the days where I get a beach hut for B120 purely for the experience - Its comfort and aircon now !

The major change has perhaps taken place in me, It's impossible to tell if this change has occurred due to getting older or whether its Thailand's influence. I suspect a combination of both....

Am I an old timer ? I'm not old (mid 30's) - Perhaps a mid-timer...

I remember 31B/£ and whenever it went above 35 I was happy!

The skyline has changed incredibly, but, having said that so has the skyline of most cities. As for changing in oneself, of course but as one gets older one always relates to 'back in the old days ....'

[hedonist44]

Not sure if being here 20 years qualifies me as being an old timer, but to answer the question, I still love it here and would live no where else.

I first came to Thailand working for Jack Nicklaus and lived in Pattaya for 11 years. After the kid came along I still enjoyed living there, but did not feel it was a suitable place to raise my child, so we packed up and moved to Chiang Mai and have been there ever since.

Yeah, traffic has gotten worse, it's allot more populated now and it seems that there are allot more <deleted> around, but I just stay away from all that as much as possible and try to keep to myself.

As far as the Thai's go, I never had a problem with them and still don't. They seem to be as hospitable and accommodating to me as they were the first day I arrived. I know you read threads on here about all the bad things that go on, how people are scammed, robbed and all the bad road mishaps, road rage and so on, but Jezzz, it was always a hit and miss when going out on your bike or in your car for a ride. There's just allot more people out there now (Forieners) and so your bound to hear more whining from people who think everything Thailand should be as in their own country.

I live up on the side of Doi Suthep in Hangdong, Chiang Mai and that is where I will most likely take my last breath. There must be allot of other old timers here that feel the same as I do towards this wonderful country we now call home.

Don't let all the negative post in this site be of much concern as some people just like to bitch and see their own words in print. I believe most of the old timers would rather keep our mouths shut, and let the newbies loose all the sleep over the not so important things. One day they also will become old timers and will have gone though a change in attitude, at least one would hope. If not, then their in for a long hard road....

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Do miss filling up my gas tank for baht 100 max, a wee bit more costly these days.

Don't miss having to carry a wad of baht along in my pocket when on an upcountry jaunt, nice to have ATMs all over the place now.

Don't miss the passenger ferry there at the Nong Khai-Thaduea crossing to Laos, was tough in the dry season with the Mekong really low toting one or two suitcases down and up the stairs.

Nice having aircon in the taxis, don't miss the old Datsun Bluebirds with the meter, used exclusively for holding the driver's hat.

Mac

[South]

Not sure if being here 20 years qualifies me as being an old timer, but to answer the question, I still love it here and would live no where else.

I first came to Thailand working for Jack Nicklaus and lived in Pattaya for 11 years. After the kid came along I still enjoyed living there, but did not feel it was a suitable place to raise my child, so we packed up and moved to Chiang Mai and have been there ever since.

Yeah, traffic has gotten worse, it's allot more populated now and it seems that there are allot more <deleted> around, but I just stay away from all that as much as possible and try to keep to myself.

As far as the Thai's go, I never had a problem with them and still don't. They seem to be as hospitable and accommodating to me as they were the first day I arrived. I know you read threads on here about all the bad things that go on, how people are scammed, robbed and all the bad road mishaps, road rage and so on, but Jezzz, it was always a hit and miss when going out on your bike or in your car for a ride. There's just allot more people out there now (Forieners) and so your bound to hear more whining from people who think everything Thailand should be as in their own country.

I live up on the side of Doi Suthep in Hangdong, Chiang Mai and that is where I will most likely take my last breath. There must be allot of other old timers here that feel the same as I do towards this wonderful country we now call home.

Don't let all the negative post in this site be of much concern as some people just like to bitch and see their own words in print. I believe most of the old timers would rather keep our mouths shut, and let the newbies loose all the sleep over the not so important things. One day they also will become old timers and will have gone though a change in attitude, at least one would hope. If not, then their in for a long hard road....

I'm sure you'll qualify with 20 years under your belt! (The 11 years in Pattaya might add 30 though!!)

The traffic has got worse, agreed, not so much for the amount of foreigners coming here but IMHO the amount of motorcycle drivers etc who have become able to get cars/pickups or whatever on very easy credit terms. The 'locals' are still some of the nicest people you will ever meet (outside the tourist areas) and I'm sure a lot of 'visitors' could learn 'hellova' lot here and take their 'learnings' home with them.

A question for you though ... 20 years ago did you see the same amount of farangs/foreigners/westerners as you see now?

[Ulysses G.]

A question for you though ... 20 years ago did you see the same amount of farangs/foreigners/westerners as you see now?

No but there were plenty living here and they were mostly insane. They did like being here though, so they get credit for that. Most of them have drifted off to Cambodia as it is more like it used to be here when everything was wide open and few laws were enforced.

[South]

Do miss filling up my gas tank for baht 100 max, a wee bit more costly these days.

Don't miss having to carry a wad of baht along in my pocket when on an upcountry jaunt, nice to have ATMs all over the place now.

Don't miss the passenger ferry there at the Nong Khai-Thaduea crossing to Laos, was tough in the dry season with the Mekong really low toting one or two suitcases down and up the stairs.

Nice having aircon in the taxis, don't miss the old Datsun Bluebirds with the meter, used exclusively for holding the driver's hat.

Mac

B8/litre I think, there were no B1000 notes, only the huge B500 things.... and B10 notes too! Yes, very few ATMs and come to think of it, very few 7/11s! The old BKK taxis with NO meter!! Everywhere you wanted to go, you had to agree a price first .... got stung quite a few times I did!!

[South]

A question for you though ... 20 years ago did you see the same amount of farangs/foreigners/westerners as you see now?

No but there were plenty living here and they were mostly insane. They did like being here though, so they get credit for that. Most of them have drifted off to Cambodia as it is more like it used to be here when everything was wide open and few laws were enforced.

Depends where you were ... first place I lived in permanently there was one old American who had been in Thailand for 20+ years, a Missionary or something, He had his church cum (no pun intended)/English School and within 3 years the farang population had multiplied by around 5! In the Mrs's hometown, over a couple of decades the farang population has gone from a small handful to well over 100 .... and those same people along with development etc have changed the place from how I originally knew it.

Good or bad? I'm still thinking about it ...

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, you are right. I lived in Chiang Mai and there were already plenty of (mostly crazy) expats. It was a lot of fun I have to admit

Edited August 29, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[MrJohnson]

Not sure if being here 20 years qualifies me as being an old timer, but to answer the question, I still love it here and would live no where else.

I first came to Thailand working for Jack Nicklaus and lived in Pattaya for 11 years. After the kid came along I still enjoyed living there, but did not feel it was a suitable place to raise my child, so we packed up and moved to Chiang Mai and have been there ever since.

Yeah, traffic has gotten worse, it's allot more populated now and it seems that there are allot more <deleted> around, but I just stay away from all that as much as possible and try to keep to myself.

As far as the Thai's go, I never had a problem with them and still don't. They seem to be as hospitable and accommodating to me as they were the first day I arrived. I know you read threads on here about all the bad things that go on, how people are scammed, robbed and all the bad road mishaps, road rage and so on, but Jezzz, it was always a hit and miss when going out on your bike or in your car for a ride. There's just allot more people out there now (Forieners) and so your bound to hear more whining from people who think everything Thailand should be as in their own country.

I live up on the side of Doi Suthep in Hangdong, Chiang Mai and that is where I will most likely take my last breath. There must be allot of other old timers here that feel the same as I do towards this wonderful country we now call home.

Don't let all the negative post in this site be of much concern as some people just like to bitch and see their own words in print. I believe most of the old timers would rather keep our mouths shut, and let the newbies loose all the sleep over the not so important things. One day they also will become old timers and will have gone though a change in attitude, at least one would hope. If not, then their in for a long hard road....

Nice post. Of course Thailand has changed, but then so has everywhere else. That is the nature of the universe. Nothing ever stays the same. ....but as that old song goes....."...ya gotta accentuate the positive...eliminate the negative...latch on to the affirmative...and don't mess with Mr. In-between...." Or something like that.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Do miss filling up my gas tank for baht 100 max, a wee bit more costly these days.

Don't miss having to carry a wad of baht along in my pocket when on an upcountry jaunt, nice to have ATMs all over the place now.

Don't miss the passenger ferry there at the Nong Khai-Thaduea crossing to Laos, was tough in the dry season with the Mekong really low toting one or two suitcases down and up the stairs.

Nice having aircon in the taxis, don't miss the old Datsun Bluebirds with the meter, used exclusively for holding the driver's hat.

Mac

B8/litre I think, there were no B1000 notes, only the huge B500 things.... and B10 notes too! Yes, very few ATMs and come to think of it, very few 7/11s! The old BKK taxis with NO meter!! Everywhere you wanted to go, you had to agree a price first .... got stung quite a few times I did!!

Ah, South, you've got the timeline of things mixed up.

Back in The Day, circa 2507, the Datsuns had meters, they just didn't work. Then as those taxis rusted out and were replace, and the law had change, no meters in the non-aircon taxis.

Re ATMs, not "very few," more like NONE.

Mac

[lovelomsak]

I too donot know if my 20years qualifies me for oldtimer. I read a bit about Thailand and had a British friend who had lived in Chiang Mai in the early 1950's tell me about Thailand. He had worked in the teak logging and wrote a book on it so had a lot to tell me.So when I arrived I felt lots of changes had already happened.

I got 18 baht to the dollar then. There were villages without a single truck or car. Toyota,Honda,Nissan etc were very few, Diahatsu was the big seller with lots full of them in Chiang Mai.I cannot remember seeing a 4 door pickup back then. Thais were curiuosly friendly just wanting to get to know a foreigner. Koh Samui a person could rent a beach hut for 80 to 100 baht.

Everything was mom and pop shops. Far less commercial and modern. Just about impossible to get change for 1000 baht note in a restaurant or small market. 500 baht notes could even be a problem,to use.

To me back then seemed to be Thai but now it is becoming just another Asian country developing and losing its own culture. The want or need for material wealth has changed it a lot.

[MrHammer]

Funny how the 90s are considered 'old hand'. You'd think that even Thailand was up to speed at that time? I would have loved to have discovered Thailand in the 60s or 70s or even 80s which I understand where something of a golden age?

[boracic]

MUCH BETTER . Never go anywhere not on BTS/MRT ?

Can order Pizza and KFC

Watch Premier League

Supermarkets..did u ever try shopping at the mom and pop's everything unpriced and covered in dust ?

I first came here unofficially, chasing Chinese over the Malaya border, with the Hampshires 1955

Officially 1973.and I'm "hard core" twice over.

[Ulysses G.]

Everything was mom and pop shops. Far less commercial and modern. Just about impossible to get change for 1000 baht note in a restaurant or small market. 500 baht notes could even be a problem,to use.

It WAS impossibe. There was no 1,000 baht note back then.

[JurgenG]

I came here for the first time as a kid with my parents in the early 80's. Thailand has changed a lot but so I have.

As a kid I really enjoyed pretending we were the Swiss Robinson in the small bungalow my parents were renting in Koh Samui.

Nowadays I enjoy staying in a 5 stars resort with Spa and WiFi.

I'm fine with the evolution of Thailand. Actually a more modern Thailand would suit me even better.

[GreenSnapper]

Everything was mom and pop shops. Far less commercial and modern. Just about impossible to get change for 1000 baht note in a restaurant or small market. 500 baht notes could even be a problem,to use.

It WAS impossibe. There was no 1,000 baht note back then.

You are right Ulysses. 500B was the biggest, but for me even 100B was a lot of cash.

But may be he got some 1000B notes from a money changer and was surprised he couldn't use them...

[Boksida]

The only change that bothers me a little is the massive increase in the number of cars on the road and the associated traffic jams. In town every journey has doubled in time.

I don't know which town you live in, but in Bangkok I think the traffic situation has actually improved since 1980. We were pretty much at gridlock before the first expressway, ring roads, more bridges, urban railways etc were built. The traffic situation in all provincial capitals just seems to be getting worse though.

[yermanee]

25 years and counting.

Yes it has changed a lot, but the biggest change is that 25 years ago I felt 50 years younger than I do now.

Coming from a country where a middle aged single man's chances of meeting a youngish woman for a bit more than socializing, were either very slim indeed or a very expensive

exercise.

No need to go into details, but what a change Thailand was and still is.

What living standards concern they are way better than they used to be, plus the fact that nearly all the food items that I used to crave for are now readily available makes living here a lot more agreeable.

I do miss the old days fun and games though.

Yermanee :jap:

[Tywais]

One of the best topics, IMO, on TV regarding Thailand before for those who have not seen it > What was Thailand like years ago

I've lived and worked her now for 20 years but have been visiting for a bit over 40 years (1968). In some ways preferred the culture, less hectic, less confrontational then but I'm fine with how things are now and just grew with it.

[GreenSnapper]

25 years ago.... never took a taxi then, too expensive.

Bus 59 (red, no aircon, still running) from Don Muang to Khao San road. 2 hours when there was not much traffic.

Khao San road wasn't as crappy as it is now. One of the poorer neighbourhoods and one wonders why suddenly the guesthouses sprung up there.

Travellers sitting on the footpath, having breakfast at noon, which normally consisted of cheap toast, sticky margarine instead of butter and a Nescafe. The luxury version included a few pieces of papayas or pineapple - all for 20 Baht or so.

Everybody talked about his travel experiences - how he went by smuggler boat from Southern Palawan to Borneo, or overland travel from China to India.

The good old times, when having a fan was luxury and a/c was only for the tourists at Sukhumvit.....

[Beetlejuice]

Yes, you are right. I lived in Chiang Mai and there were already plenty of (mostly crazy) expats. It was a lot of fun I have to admit

You’re so right.

Speaking solely about Chiang Mai, (first visited almost 40 years ago) it was much more fun back in the good old days.

People have said; no it hasn’t changed, it is me that has changed instead. I don`t accept that.

It was like a party every night, other farangs actually spoke with you, there was a lot more on offer and was affordable. It was cheap and nasty where anything goes and I loved it.

These days everything is much more commercial and business minded. The fun party atmosphere has slowly faded away.

Things were pretty primitive back then. It could take up to 5 years to have a phone installed, the main roads were like driving on the surface of the moon, the only source of world news was from the BBC radio World Service, farang food was hard to come by, lady houses were everywhere and so on. But for a farang, this was all paradise, wine, women and song and being a sort of novelty to the Thais. The Thais were always inviting me to their homes or for social gatherings just so that they could get to know me and experience what I was like.

But what made it really enjoyable is that it was such a huge contrast from the West. Seeing another farang outside of town was a rarity in those days. It was like; Doctor Livingstone I presume if 2 farangs passed each other on the street.

Definitely those times were better and I am lucky enough to have been there and able to compare the Thailand of today and the Thailand of yesteryears.

[lovelomsak]

Everything was mom and pop shops. Far less commercial and modern. Just about impossible to get change for 1000 baht note in a restaurant or small market. 500 baht notes could even be a problem,to use.

It WAS impossibe. There was no 1,000 baht note back then.

You are right Ulysses. 500B was the biggest, but for me even 100B was a lot of cash.

But may be he got some 1000B notes from a money changer and was surprised he couldn't use them...

I was pretty sure i saw them so I checked and they have been around a long time since 1925.

Theyw ere changed in 2003

This is a copy from wikipedia info on it

quote

In 1925, notes were issued with the denomination baht used in the English text, in denominations of 1, 5, 10, 20, 100 and 1000 baht.

unquote.

Notice though that the 500 wasnot in circulation at that time it came later..

Maybe that is where the confusion lays.

In1992 there was even a commemorative 1000 baht note with text added to honor the H.M. Queen Sirikit 60 birthday.

Edited August 29, 2011 by lovelomsak

[Kilgore Trout]

The only thing that I miss from the old days is that other Westerners were mostly happy to be allowed to live here and did not moan, whine and complain as much

Oh, stop complaining

[samran]

Don't miss the 3 hour trip in from Don Muang.

An quite happy now that if you know your way about driving in BKK isn't a pain.

Appriciate that the taxi's have meters, and are cheap.

LOVE the skytrain and MRT.

Love that BKK is a more cosmopolitan city, and that you can get more than decent versions of foods from all over the world.

Some of you may say, "well you can be anywhere in the world then", but no, BKK is still uniquely BKK.