Toilet Breather

[nellyp]

I live in a house supplied by ny school and i have trouble with the toilet. It used to be a squat toilet but they have cemented a western toilet over the hole. I am having trouble because.

1/ The tank fills up very quickly, it is not a big tank about 800mm diameter and it looks about1.5 meters deep. i am having this emptied at the least every 2 weeks. The other teachers do not have theirs emptied at all since we started. (I have a faamily of three, the other teachers are 2 to a house-with the same sized tanks).

2/ I am having trouble with the waste going into the tank from the toilet when the tank is 2/3rds full. The flush will not take the waste away so we use a bucket, when the waste goes down the pipe we have water bubbling back through the system bringing the waste back up and practically garggling with the water.

The trouble only started after we had a roof extended out so we could park our car behind the house. i have read that this could be a problem with air escaping. I have left the cover off the sceptic tank to try to help this but understand that I need a breather pipe. Where would the pipe need to go into the system as the people who work on the houses are the school groundsmen who seem a bit perplexed by these problems.

I am also concerned that when we flush the toilet when the tank is empty i can see water going into the tank well after the toilet has been flushed.

Any help with thebreather pipe would be great. The tank is situated about 2-2.5m from the toilet

Cheers

[PattayaParent]

The trouble only started after we had a roof extended out so we could park our car behind the house

Was there a vent pipe through the roof before the builders started? Maybe they have plugged this up?

It wouldn't explain why your septic tank fills though, sounds like the outflow from it is blocked? I doubt a vacuum would be preventing it from flowing out as it would be broken momentarily when you flush.

Edited August 31, 2011 by PattayaParent

[Lost in LOS]

put your own pipe in the tank and run it up a wall somewhere

you can also buy the bacteria that will eat up the waste, including toilet paper

try both and see whats up

[meatboy]

bacteria blocks 37bht.home pro,1every 3months,just fush em down the pan.

[A. BOOZER]

bacteria blocks 37bht.home pro,1every 3months,just fush em down the pan.

Do you have a product name for these bacteria blocks? A picture of the label would be extremely helpful.

[nellyp]

The trouble only started after we had a roof extended out so we could park our car behind the house

Was there a vent pipe through the roof before the builders started? Maybe they have plugged this up?

It wouldn't explain why your septic tank fills though, sounds like the outflow from it is blocked? I doubt a vacuum would be preventing it from flowing out as it would be broken momentarily when you flush.

I didn't know there would be an outflow, would this be just a pipe going into the earth to allow liquiud waste to seep into the earth, leaving just solid waste? How would it be possible to find this?

[nellyp]

put your own pipe in the tank and run it up a wall somewhere

you can also buy the bacteria that will eat up the waste, including toilet paper

try both and see whats up

I have been told that it is no use just putting a pipe into the tank, that you need to put it into thepipe running from thedown pipe from the toilet. Is there a reason to run the breather up a wall apart from the smelling releasing further up? I will definately be buying the blocks, that sounds like a good idea

Cheers

[PattayaParent]

The trouble only started after we had a roof extended out so we could park our car behind the house

Was there a vent pipe through the roof before the builders started? Maybe they have plugged this up?

It wouldn't explain why your septic tank fills though, sounds like the outflow from it is blocked? I doubt a vacuum would be preventing it from flowing out as it would be broken momentarily when you flush.

I didn't know there would be an outflow, would this be just a pipe going into the earth to allow liquiud waste to seep into the earth, leaving just solid waste? How would it be possible to find this?

Well if you can lift the cover and look at the opposite side to the inlet there should be an outlet pipe provided it is a 2 chamber construction. The solid waste stays in the first chamber, mostly, with the remainder settling in the second and the liquid runs out to a soakaway. (Edit: 1 chamber tanks may still be in older properties)

If you have only 1 chamber that is a holding tank that requires emptying then it is a bit small if it needs emptying every 2 weeks or you are using the toilet a hell of a lot (it's about 500 flushes capacity)

.

How long have you been in the house before the problem occurred? Did the previous tennants make a similar complaint?

edit: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Septic_tank

http://www.inspectapedia.com/septbook.htm

Edited August 31, 2011 by PattayaParent

[PattayaParent]

put your own pipe in the tank and run it up a wall somewhere

you can also buy the bacteria that will eat up the waste, including toilet paper

try both and see whats up

I have been told that it is no use just putting a pipe into the tank, that you need to put it into thepipe running from thedown pipe from the toilet. Is there a reason to run the breather up a wall apart from the smelling releasing further up? I will definately be buying the blocks, that sounds like a good idea

Cheers

Yes the vertical vent pipe should be part of teh soil stack and extend above the roof line to release the smells and provide ventilation to prevent a vacuum.

I suspect that you may have one (although it's not always the case, TIT) and the builder has done something to it when altering your roof.

[Lost in LOS]

put your own pipe in the tank and run it up a wall somewhere

you can also buy the bacteria that will eat up the waste, including toilet paper

try both and see whats up

I have been told that it is no use just putting a pipe into the tank, that you need to put it into thepipe running from thedown pipe from the toilet. Is there a reason to run the breather up a wall apart from the smelling releasing further up? I will definately be buying the blocks, that sounds like a good idea

Cheers

running from the toilet is best if you can find the pipe and tap into it, then run it up the roof. I have one in my toilet drain but the tank still didnt work right. I tapped into the top of my tank and ran it up the wall [yes, for the smell] and the tank drained better. The bacteria will work well, you can find it in Home works in the section where they have the buckets and cleaners. it will be very clear on the label in english

[meatboy]

bacteria blocks 37bht.home pro,1every 3months,just fush em down the pan.

Do you have a product name for these bacteria blocks? A picture of the label would be extremely helpful.

havnt got any at home at the moment but the wife thinks tesco sells them as well,they are on the shelfs that sell cleaning fluids,about the size of a scotch brite scouring pad,cardboard cover, pkt of white powder inside.just empty contents down the pan and tip a bucket of water down as well.most of the houses on moobans have the same systems but there is an awful lot of people dont know about them,we only found out by chance but they are a must.

[nellyp]

The trouble only started after we had a roof extended out so we could park our car behind the house

Was there a vent pipe through the roof before the builders started? Maybe they have plugged this up?

It wouldn't explain why your septic tank fills though, sounds like the outflow from it is blocked? I doubt a vacuum would be preventing it from flowing out as it would be broken momentarily when you flush.

I didn't know there would be an outflow, would this be just a pipe going into the earth to allow liquiud waste to seep into the earth, leaving just solid waste? How would it be possible to find this?

Well if you can lift the cover and look at the opposite side to the inlet there should be an outlet pipe provided it is a 2 chamber construction. The solid waste stays in the first chamber, mostly, with the remainder settling in the second and the liquid runs out to a soakaway. (Edit: 1 chamber tanks may still be in older properties)

If you have only 1 chamber that is a holding tank that requires emptying then it is a bit small if it needs emptying every 2 weeks or you are using the toilet a hell of a lot (it's about 500 flushes capacity)

.

How long have you been in the house before the problem occurred? Did the previous tennants make a similar complaint?

edit: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Septic_tank

http://www.inspectapedia.com/septbook.htm

Ther tank is a 1 chamber tank and I don't believe we are using it a lot, though 3 of us use it twice a day at least. The previous tennant had no problems. It is impossible for me to take the lid off as they have laid a cement floor over the back of the house. Luckily they marked out where the tank was so I chiseled an opening that unfortunately is not large enough for me to check anythng but I can see the waste water coming into the tank.

The toilet is downstairs in my house (no upstairs toilet), so if I run a breather can I just tap (drill a hole) into the top of the tank and run a pipe from it? Or should I try to dig out the soil pipe and tap into that? Thanks a lot for your advice.

[nellyp]

put your own pipe in the tank and run it up a wall somewhere

you can also buy the bacteria that will eat up the waste, including toilet paper

try both and see whats up

I have been told that it is no use just putting a pipe into the tank, that you need to put it into thepipe running from thedown pipe from the toilet. Is there a reason to run the breather up a wall apart from the smelling releasing further up? I will definately be buying the blocks, that sounds like a good idea

Cheers

running from the toilet is best if you can find the pipe and tap into it, then run it up the roof. I have one in my toilet drain but the tank still didnt work right. I tapped into the top of my tank and ran it up the wall [yes, for the smell] and the tank drained better. The bacteria will work well, you can find it in Home works in the section where they have the buckets and cleaners. it will be very clear on the label in english

I have decided that I could break the soil pipe running from the toilet if I try to tap into it. Any ideas on how to tap into a cement pipe? Otherwise I will run a pipe from the tank. I am assuming that you mean the sceptic tank and not the flush tank.

Thanks for your input

[lopburi3]

Do you have storm water drains? Normally they feed excess water there after the septic process and never (or at least almost) need pumping out or bacteria added. But exit pipes can become blocked and then need to be cleaned or replaced (actually not that big a job in most cases). There should be air vent from below toilet so water can easily flow but if exit pipe into tank is normally above liquid level that should work good enough I suspect (but is sounds as if at 2/3 full it makes pipe below water level?). It should be easy enough to remove toilet and insert an air pipe - all sealed back up with white cement as is normal here. But there needs to be a way to drain water. This time of year however ground water level may naturally be high so that might have something to do with it.

[PattayaParent]

Do you have storm water drains? Normally they feed excess water there after the septic process and never (or at least almost) need pumping out or bacteria added. But exit pipes can become blocked and then need to be cleaned or replaced (actually not that big a job in most cases). There should be air vent from below toilet so water can easily flow but if exit pipe into tank is normally above liquid level that should work good enough I suspect (but is sounds as if at 2/3 full it makes pipe below water level?). It should be easy enough to remove toilet and insert an air pipe - all sealed back up with white cement as is normal here. But there needs to be a way to drain water. This time of year however ground water level may naturally be high so that might have something to do with it.

good point and could explain why the tank is filling up if it's not a blocked exit pipe.

If the water is flowing easily into the tank though I expect there is already a vent in the line.

Edit: just re-read the original post and it seems there is a problem with flow when the tank is 2/3 full which is probably because the pipe into the tank is under water and so not vented because the water is not exiting the tank (the exit pipe should be lower than the entry pipe)

Sounds like you will have to break out the concrete to be able to see into the tank properly OP.

Edited September 1, 2011 by PattayaParent

[nellyp]

Do you have storm water drains? Normally they feed excess water there after the septic process and never (or at least almost) need pumping out or bacteria added. But exit pipes can become blocked and then need to be cleaned or replaced (actually not that big a job in most cases). There should be air vent from below toilet so water can easily flow but if exit pipe into tank is normally above liquid level that should work good enough I suspect (but is sounds as if at 2/3 full it makes pipe below water level?). It should be easy enough to remove toilet and insert an air pipe - all sealed back up with white cement as is normal here. But there needs to be a way to drain water. This time of year however ground water level may naturally be high so that might have something to do with it.

We have no storm drains as I actually live in a small wood behind the school. You are quite right that the toilet mostly works ok while the water level is low, once the waste gets above the pipe, waste will not exit the toilet.When you say there should be an air vent below the toilet do you mean the toilet itself (in the house) or do you mean from the tank (which is below the level of the toilet). i do not know if the workmen inthe school would even know what I am talking about if I told them to fit an air pipe after removing the toilet. Again do you mean a breather pipe running from the bottom of the toilet (but not going into the waste pipe) then up into the roof area (from inside the house) and sealing it around the base of the toilet?

I'm sorry if I sound dull but I am finding it difficult to picture what is going on under this toilet. In the uk I fitted my whole bathroom from an empty room, but here it is so different.

[PattayaParent]

Where the waste enters the pipe that runs down to the septic tank there should be a T with a riser pipe going up to the roof as a vent.

However you will still have problems with the toilet backing up if the septic tank is not emptying.

Edit http://www.google.co.th/search?q=vent+stack&hl=en&biw=979&bih=274&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=4D1fTv6eAsLprAeS7oG9Dw&ved=0CDkQsAQ

Edited September 1, 2011 by PattayaParent

[lopburi3]

The toilet will feed directly into the pipe so the air vent would have to be near the top of the pipe just below the toilet feed (can not go into toilet as would break and you need the loop to keep smells down). A 3/4" water pipe from there to wall and up above ceiling should work. But it seems you also need to drain the tank so that may require a larger pipe from tank itself out into wood into a stone filled area so you do not have to pump every 2 weeks. Such work would not be that expensive as basic labor workers can do but will require cut up floor from tank to wall. As from the land of wood construction always scares me when cement/tile involved but they seem to break it up and replace very easily here.

[Naam]

put your own pipe in the tank and run it up a wall somewhere

you can also buy the bacteria that will eat up the waste, including toilet paper

try both and see whats up

if there is no overflow (and it sure looks like there is none) any bacteria is useless because bacteria do not drain any liquid from the septic tank, they also don't eat up but just break down solids which are then flushed out. an air vent will not solve the problem!

most thai builders have no bloody idea how to install an efficient septic system! and the latter applies to most of their clients too

for the record: a septic tank needs an overflow to a drain field or to an area of the land which is able to absorb the liquid. if the main tank has to be pumped out before it has been used by half a dozen persons for a period of at least 10 years shoot the one who "designed" the system. :jap:

[cmsally]

If this is a kind of rural , not too posh toilet, that you can fiddle around without spoiling the decor; then try for the easiest thing first.

Get a hammer and chisel and knock out a piece of the grout that lines the base of the toilet to make a seal with the floor. Knock out a big enough piece to give you a clear hole between toilet and floor. Then try to flush the toilet. Try to make a hole away from any water flow that may drain in. If a hole towards the back doesn't work , then try one towards the front.

This is not correct plumbing , but when some builder has stuffed something up that is really difficult to fix, it is certainly easiest solution.

[lopburi3]

I sure hope you only do that in an outhouse setting as the smells will be extreme otherwise. There are reasons for S/U bends.

Not to mention that you now have made the bathroom floor an alternative septic tank.

[Naam]

I sure hope you only do that in an outhouse setting as the smells will be extreme otherwise. There are reasons for S/U bends.

Not to mention that you now have made the bathroom floor an alternative septic tank.

you beat me to it! but no bad smell should escape if the toilet was fitted with the correct rubber seal AND the toilet outlet matching the sewage pipe. unfortunately most Thai plumbers use hammer and chisel to "match" toilet and sewage pipe and therefore have no use for the seal (which normally comes with the toilet).

Get a hammer and chisel and knock out a piece of the grout that lines the base of the toilet to make a seal with the floor.

that's the Thai "expert method" of setting a toilet when i saw how they wanted to install the first toilet in my house by putting a huge blob of mortar/grout on the floor i was on the verge of strangling the poor chap.

he was also confused and totally lost when he had to install the first bidet. but he was in good company. when we sold our house in Florida we were asked by potential buyers "what's this for?" and Mrs Naam warned me already before entering any bathroom in a language nobody else understands "don't you dare to say it again!" sometimes i did heed her advice and sometimes i couldn't hold back answering "this is where we wash our vegetables before cooking".

[meatboy]

those bacteria blocks,i must have struck a nerve, home pro/tesco lotus in korat sold out.fri 2/9.

[cmsally]

I sure hope you only do that in an outhouse setting as the smells will be extreme otherwise. There are reasons for S/U bends.

Not to mention that you now have made the bathroom floor an alternative septic tank.

I know its not ideal but when you are faced with a toilet that was fitted by someone else and you don't want to start from scratch again, that is sometimes the easiest option.

It all depends on the situation and how rough and ready the bathroom is.

It doesn't always work out , it depends how they did the original. But I have used this before and its worked wonders with no smell and no sewage. Of course I would have strangled the original builder but in that case he was long been and gone. I just got to inherit his toilet!

[JAS21]

I've been recording the building of our village office...attached are picturees of the vent..it looks like they raised it from the original position due to the 'normal' water level being too high...they found that out after it rained. Also a picture of the 'stuff' that they put in the tank.

Out of interest at the back of the bowl (in the floor) on the toilets in our house are four holes...they are probably vents but we blocked then up due to the smell.......still flush OK though.

[PattayaParent]

^that looks more like the manhole access than a vent.

[meatboy]

those blocks to go down the toilet and into the tank,[ BIONIC the waste digester] small blue box,red and white lettering 200grms.

[kwonitoy]

The trouble only started after we had a roof extended out so we could park our car behind the house

Was there a vent pipe through the roof before the builders started? Maybe they have plugged this up?

It wouldn't explain why your septic tank fills though, sounds like the outflow from it is blocked? I doubt a vacuum would be preventing it from flowing out as it would be broken momentarily when you flush.

I didn't know there would be an outflow, would this be just a pipe going into the earth to allow liquiud waste to seep into the earth, leaving just solid waste? How would it be possible to find this?

As to the tank seeming to be constantly full, In the dry season I won't empty any of my tanks. In the wet season they are about 2/3 permanently full. I'm blessed with a pond with a high berm around it right behind my house and it keeps the water table high in the rainy season.

The tanks are designed to let liquid waste filter out into the surrounding ground but unfortunatly also let water in.

[stgrhe]

For a septic tank to work properly it is meant to be full. The only emptying procedure needed is every now and then to remove sediments.

[PattayaParent]

<br />For a septic tank to work properly it is meant to be full. The only emptying procedure needed is every now and then to remove sediments.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

But every 2 weeks as in the OPs case is a bit much don't you think?