Thai Court Hears Evidence In Case By Transgender

[webfact]

Court hears evidence in case by transgender

By The Nation

Administrative judges convened yesterday for the first time to hear evidence on a petition filed five years ago by the Sexual Diversity Network against the Ministry of Defence for labelling a transgender as "suffering from permanent psychosis" in her military discharge document (Sor Dor 43).

An initial opinion was read by one of the judges that by doing so the ministry had violated the rights of the plaintiff, Samart "Namwarn" Meecharoen, and must correct her Sor Dor 43 document.

"I am quite happy but we will have to wait for the final decision on September 13. With the word 'psychosis' written on my military paper, it's impossible to get a job," said Namwarn.

The judge's statement, however, was greeted with cautious optimism by LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender] activists.

"The judge's opinion that the plaintiff should instead be categorised as 'katoey' [hermaphrodite] is not accurate. Transgenders do not have sexual organs of both sexes like hermaphrodites. It is hoped Namwarn's paper will be corrected to 'gender discordance' - the term agreed on by the Ministry of Defence and Sexual Diversity Network to be used for future transgender draftees," said an LGBT activist who wished to remain anonymous.

"It is also disturbing that transgenders who have undergone sex reassignment surgeries are considered by the judge as 'suffering from mental disorder' and the judge only found in favour of the plaintiff because she had not had surgery," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-08-31

[Travelish]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

[sting0001]

I do have the honor to met Samart soem years ago (not for fun I do precise), and I am quite glad to hear she/he will be give a chance to proove her/his worth.

On a personal note, Samart is an well behave, well articulate person, spoken english fluently (Way better than I do), well educated (by thai standart) , and at that time (things may change, so I do not know for today) was not involved at all in the sex industry ( but worked in a travel agency part time to pay for the study).

All of that for saying that it is good that everyone to be given a chance to start correct life (apologies for the bad english); up to her/him to seize that chance and move up along the social ladder.

[Boater]

"The judge's opinion that the plaintiff should instead be categorised as 'katoey' [hermaphrodite] is not accurate. Transgenders do not have sexual organs of both sexes like hermaphrodites. It is hoped Namwarn's paper will be corrected to 'gender discordance' - the term agreed on by the Ministry of Defence and Sexual Diversity Network to be used for future transgender draftees," said an LGBT activist who wished to remain anonymous.

well at least the judge has an education, Ladyboys are NOT hermaphrodite's , otherwise they would be having babies !

not surprised then didnt bring Lady Gaga into to testify !

[warfie]

"The judge's opinion that the plaintiff should instead be categorised as 'katoey' [hermaphrodite] is not accurate. Transgenders do not have sexual organs of both sexes like hermaphrodites. It is hoped Namwarn's paper will be corrected to 'gender discordance' - the term agreed on by the Ministry of Defence and Sexual Diversity Network to be used for future transgender draftees," said an LGBT activist who wished to remain anonymous.

well at least the judge has an education, Ladyboys are NOT hermaphrodite's , otherwise they would be having babies !

not surprised then didnt bring Lady Gaga into to testify !

I read that statement quite differently, to me it reads that the judge is ignorant and categorised the plaintiff as hermaphrodite and it's the LGBT activist who is educated enough to know the difference and point out the inaccuracy.

Or, have I read it wrong?

[Richard4849]

The judge obviously did not mean "katoey" in I guess what is its literal sense, "a hermaphrodite", but it in its more common usage to mean a male transvestite or transsexual.

[samjaidee]

The judge obviously did not mean "katoey" in I guess what is its literal sense, "a hermaphrodite", but it in its more common usage to mean a male transvestite or transsexual.

In a court of law words can only be used in their literal sense, especially by a judge.

[Richard4849]

The judge obviously did not mean "katoey" in I guess what is its literal sense, "a hermaphrodite", but it in its more common usage to mean a male transvestite or transsexual.

In a court of law words can only be used in their literal sense, especially by a judge.

I don't think "katoey" is a formal legal word...

[hungryhippo]

Why are TVs discharged from military service in the first place? Are they not good fighters or something?

[Richard4849]

Why are TVs discharged from military service in the first place? Are they not good fighters or something?

They'd definitely keep the other troops happy...

[tombkk]

The judge obviously did not mean "katoey" in I guess what is its literal sense, "a hermaphrodite", but it in its more common usage to mean a male transvestite or transsexual.

A katoey (commonly translated as ladyboy) is not a hemaphrodite at all. The word means "male-to-female transvestite or transgender person".

I think we are dealing with a bad translation by The Nation. I would like to know what the judge really said, and what Khun Nanwarn's comment really was (in Thai).

[tombkk]

I do have the honor to met Samart soem years ago (not for fun I do precise), and I am quite glad to hear she/he will be give a chance to proove her/his worth.

On a personal note, Samart is an well behave, well articulate person, spoken english fluently (Way better than I do), well educated (by thai standart) , and at that time (things may change, so I do not know for today) was not involved at all in the sex industry ( but worked in a travel agency part time to pay for the study).

All of that for saying that it is good that everyone to be given a chance to start correct life (apologies for the bad english); up to her/him to seize that chance and move up along the social ladder.

And you are entirely sure that Khun Namwarn referred to herself as "Samart"?

Kindly also explain your inuendo "at that time (things may change...) was not involved in the sex industry". Are you involved in the sex industry, have time changed for yourself? Does everybody, when times change, go into the sex industry? Is this normal in your circles?

[sting0001]

I do have the honor to met Samart soem years ago (not for fun I do precise), and I am quite glad to hear she/he will be give a chance to proove her/his worth.

On a personal note, Samart is an well behave, well articulate person, spoken english fluently (Way better than I do), well educated (by thai standart) , and at that time (things may change, so I do not know for today) was not involved at all in the sex industry ( but worked in a travel agency part time to pay for the study).

All of that for saying that it is good that everyone to be given a chance to start correct life (apologies for the bad english); up to her/him to seize that chance and move up along the social ladder.

And you are entirely sure that Khun Namwarn referred to herself as "Samart"?

Kindly also explain your inuendo "at that time (things may change...) was not involved in the sex industry". Are you involved in the sex industry, have time changed for yourself? Does everybody, when times change, go into the sex industry? Is this normal in your circles?

I always addressed to her as Wan , not Samart or Khun Namwan

No inuendo, but it is 4 years that I did not have contact with her, so I do not know what she is doing now! Also, I like to be accurate, so I simply stressed out the folowing : at the moment she filled a complain to the court (roughtly at the same time as the military coup) Wan was finishing her study , was a well behaved , articulated person , well educated too; working in a tour agency (or a travel agency); but having been refused in 2 places due to the problem of her military background.

Futhermore, during her 'incorporation' she was in the first page of Bangkok Post (by luck I suppose) with article explaining TG people does not fit for military service but are still call to recruitment center...

My circles (because it seems you want to make it personal) are quite limitated, the only relations I do have since I moved from Bangkok, are purely professional (work , sleep, work ,sleep). That is necessary as I do work for a quite sucessful company who pay me twice what I would earn in my own country, so I do have better to be fit for duty. My relation with sex workers are limitate to read report about them in TV, I do met Wan because I was doing some tutoring in Chula, and she was friend with one of my pupils (spelling), and said relations were only what the usual rules of good behavior accept (not sure about the quality of my english here, sorry).

I simply found someone way different of the usual stereoptype of the kathoey , so I tried with my broken english to stress out that fact.

I hope the explanation is enought for you, if not please allow me to use the marvellous sentence from Horace (54 before Christus) : Quid Rides? De te fabulla narrature! As your fixation might be construct by a pervert mind as a reflect of your own desire/fantaisie/fantasm about TG people!

Peace and Love

[overherebc]

The judge obviously did not mean "katoey" in I guess what is its literal sense, "a hermaphrodite", but it in its more common usage to mean a male transvestite or transsexual.

Always thought that tranvestite ( probably latin ) meant cross dresser, and transsexual meant sex changed.

Prepared to be corrected.

[richardblanc]

I do have the honor to met Samart soem years ago (not for fun I do precise), and I am quite glad to hear she/he will be give a chance to proove her/his worth.

On a personal note, Samart is an well behave, well articulate person, spoken english fluently (Way better than I do), well educated (by thai standart) , and at that time (things may change, so I do not know for today) was not involved at all in the sex industry ( but worked in a travel agency part time to pay for the study).

All of that for saying that it is good that everyone to be given a chance to start correct life (apologies for the bad english); up to her/him to seize that chance and move up along the social ladder.

And you are entirely sure that Khun Namwarn referred to herself as "Samart"?

Kindly also explain your inuendo "at that time (things may change...) was not involved in the sex industry". Are you involved in the sex industry, have time changed for yourself? Does everybody, when times change, go into the sex industry? Is this normal in your circles?

I always addressed to her as Wan , not Samart or Khun Namwan

No inuendo, but it is 4 years that I did not have contact with her, so I do not know what she is doing now! Also, I like to be accurate, so I simply stressed out the folowing : at the moment she filled a complain to the court (roughtly at the same time as the military coup) Wan was finishing her study , was a well behaved , articulated person , well educated too; working in a tour agency (or a travel agency); but having been refused in 2 places due to the problem of her military background.

Futhermore, during her 'incorporation' she was in the first page of Bangkok Post (by luck I suppose) with article explaining TG people does not fit for military service but are still call to recruitment center...

My circles (because it seems you want to make it personal) are quite limitated, the only relations I do have since I moved from Bangkok, are purely professional (work , sleep, work ,sleep). That is necessary as I do work for a quite sucessful company who pay me twice what I would earn in my own country, so I do have better to be fit for duty. My relation with sex workers are limitate to read report about them in TV, I do met Wan because I was doing some tutoring in Chula, and she was friend with one of my pupils (spelling), and said relations were only what the usual rules of good behavior accept (not sure about the quality of my english here, sorry).

I simply found someone way different of the usual stereoptype of the kathoey , so I tried with my broken english to stress out that fact.

I hope the explanation is enought for you, if not please allow me to use the marvellous sentence from Horace (54 before Christus) : Quid Rides? De te fabulla narrature! As your fixation might be construct by a pervert mind as a reflect of your own desire/fantaisie/fantasm about TG people!

Peace and Love

if your english seem broken to u

your style is not at all

salutations richard

[connor6063]

Im sorry, but who cares if people change genders. It doesnt mean they are crazy. Starting to sound like the us

[tombkk]

The judge obviously did not mean "katoey" in I guess what is its literal sense, "a hermaphrodite", but it in its more common usage to mean a male transvestite or transsexual.

Always thought that tranvestite ( probably latin ) meant cross dresser, and transsexual meant sex changed.

Prepared to be corrected.

You are right, except that transexual does not necessarily mean "sex changed" in the sense of a Gender Reassingment Surgery. Many transexuals (I think 'transgender' is currently the politically correct term) have not had the surgery but would still be considered to be born in a body with a gender different from their own identity.

[tombkk]

I do have the honor to met Samart soem years ago (not for fun I do precise), and I am quite glad to hear she/he will be give a chance to proove her/his worth.

On a personal note, Samart is an well behave, well articulate person, spoken english fluently (Way better than I do), well educated (by thai standart) , and at that time (things may change, so I do not know for today) was not involved at all in the sex industry ( but worked in a travel agency part time to pay for the study).

All of that for saying that it is good that everyone to be given a chance to start correct life (apologies for the bad english); up to her/him to seize that chance and move up along the social ladder.

And you are entirely sure that Khun Namwarn referred to herself as "Samart"?

Kindly also explain your inuendo "at that time (things may change...) was not involved in the sex industry". Are you involved in the sex industry, have time changed for yourself? Does everybody, when times change, go into the sex industry? Is this normal in your circles?

I always addressed to her as Wan , not Samart or Khun Namwan

No inuendo, but it is 4 years that I did not have contact with her, so I do not know what she is doing now! Also, I like to be accurate, so I simply stressed out the folowing : at the moment she filled a complain to the court (roughtly at the same time as the military coup) Wan was finishing her study , was a well behaved , articulated person , well educated too; working in a tour agency (or a travel agency); but having been refused in 2 places due to the problem of her military background.

Futhermore, during her 'incorporation' she was in the first page of Bangkok Post (by luck I suppose) with article explaining TG people does not fit for military service but are still call to recruitment center...

My circles (because it seems you want to make it personal) are quite limitated, the only relations I do have since I moved from Bangkok, are purely professional (work , sleep, work ,sleep). That is necessary as I do work for a quite sucessful company who pay me twice what I would earn in my own country, so I do have better to be fit for duty. My relation with sex workers are limitate to read report about them in TV, I do met Wan because I was doing some tutoring in Chula, and she was friend with one of my pupils (spelling), and said relations were only what the usual rules of good behavior accept (not sure about the quality of my english here, sorry).

I simply found someone way different of the usual stereoptype of the kathoey , so I tried with my broken english to stress out that fact.

I hope the explanation is enought for you, if not please allow me to use the marvellous sentence from Horace (54 before Christus) : Quid Rides? De te fabulla narrature! As your fixation might be construct by a pervert mind as a reflect of your own desire/fantaisie/fantasm about TG people!

Peace and Love

Just a question here: If you call her Wan, why did you say "he/she" and "Samart" in your first post?

And I still see your reference to katoeys as "usually being prostitutes" (my quotation marks, paraphrasing your words) as a rather offensive correlation.

Ingoring your last and rather offensive sentence, let me tell you that I don't think you are for real. Good night.

[endure]

I seem to recall that the Khun Samart had a farang boyfriend who ran a blog which mentioned Samart's hassle with the military. The blog was shut down some time ago and I can't remember the farang's name.