Starting A Fish Farm

[ozzydom]

i know it could be done that way too.

as for now, at least i know where to buy fish feed already, while have no clue yet, - and that seem to include the locals too, for my surprise-, where to find small chicks or ducks.

Other thing:

local "expert girl" says she knows nothing about Cyanide...she says cleaning the pond is/can be done with phoon khao, about 70-80kg/rai...

is this above correct? can do the job, or needs cyanide too?

tt. Cyanide is extremely hard to source ,one of the products we use with success is Zapocure 1,

it is actually a snail killer and freely available for about 200 baht per 10 kg bag.

Zapocure looks like sawdust and soil mix, all you do is broadcast it over the surface after you have pumped pond down as low as you can,many small fish actually jump out of the water and die ,it even drives larger snakeheads out of the mud and kills them.

We dust the bottom of our pumped out ponds at the rate of 50 kg Poon Khao per rai, it helps neutralise nitrates and organisms in the mud,works better if done during the dry season.

[tingtong]

So, sourced 30kgs of Poon Khao today...just in case, though probably about 20kgs will be needed judging from your numbers, i will try out things first on the smallest lake, that is about 600 m2....

I will look up this snail killer, Ozzydom, thx.

Today also went to see KK fisheries department, got some info to check out, they were friendly, but otherwise not too much. They also didnt seem to hear about cyanide. they recommend the same poon khao.

they sell fishes, but small quantities it seems, like 50/bag...the price isnt that competitive neither. If tilapia, i think it will definately be Nam Sai, while small size, but 35 satang only...and it is sex reversed.

Else i couuld probably source them to myself from my lakes, but then again the result will be the same, plenty different sizes in the end, not what i have in mind.

Meanwhile catfishes do well in the little pool of theirs, after 8 days they seem to be bigger visually, and still 100% survival. In the moment i will keep them where they are.

Edited September 14, 2011 by tingtong

[RedBullHorn]

Cyanide...Thai pronounce it as "da'ang sir night"

[IsaanAussie]

RBH,

I spent some time watching your youtube videos. Great setup, congratulations. Really like the fish sizing gear and the pumps. Sure beats having to hook up belts on the rot thai.

IA

[tingtong]

will have to wait till i get a better net, before able to watch youtube

A silly? question to Ozzydom:

Is this poison dangerous to human? when i mentioned to my wife first she was delighted that it can kill pla chon in the mud, but then came the question: can i still eat it after?

she would be heartbroken to waste those presumable big enough and delicious pla chons...me care less, i dont really eat fish much.

[RedBullHorn]

If you put them in fresh clean water and change the water every 2 hours for 4-5 time, yes you can eat them at your own risk !

Villagers will eat them and cyanide was once easily available before it becomes a controlled item. They would use a small quantity to stunt the fishes in the damed stream and quickly put them in fresh clean water before they die, once in a clean water environment, the fishes will start to regain conscience and some never.

But i don't know about Zapocure 1 that Ozzy is using.

Edited September 15, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[tingtong]

thx, RBH,

as it seems it the moment i wont be able to get cyanide. so, probably have to try Ozzy's alternative. Of course i will try to fish out as much as i can before going drastic...

[RedBullHorn]

One of my favourite video, this one is from Lagos, Nigeria. 1'600 in this concrete pond measuring 6m x 3m, they were discussing about

space affecting sizes, the Clarias batrachus are 5 months old, weighs 800gm -1kg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V5wnaj44o0

Edited September 15, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[mellow1]

Reading the sky and observing weather patterns and planning ahead are things within the learning curve for a successful fish farmer

Hello RBH, planning ahead is what we are in the process of doing now. As you may remember, last winter we discovered that our catfish stopped growing, and actually lost weight, even though we where feeding them. An expensive lesson.

We are planning to sell off all our grown out stock, and only have fingerlings ready to grow, as the weather warms up again, this time. Unless you have a better suggestion.

[mellow1]

I know I will get some stick for this but I have a pond I tip a wheel barrow of chicken poo in it when I can remember. It pays for most of my beer. I am Not a fish farmer, but my pond pays its way. I have never brought a bag of food and never had an problems. Catfish eat anything you give. Just a note from the other end of the scale... LOL

We are competing with fish farmers who do exactly what you describe. We feed our fish commercial pellets which contain 32% protein. We use a recirculating system, our clients can tell the difference in the quality of the meat between these feeding styles, and prefer to buy our fish.

[RedBullHorn]

Hi mellow1, nice to see your post...A contributing reason to that past misfortune could be the brood stocks. There is a secret in how long they're kept for production purposes. The fingerlings that i've got is from a reputable nursery farm in Nakon Nayok, from the brood stock parents F1 series 23 (F naeng luoon yeesip sam) .... 5 years ago the fingerlings i was raising was brood stocks using F1 series 15.

Although i integrate piggeries into my Clarias farm, i never let those run off goes into any of my ponds.

It's true that it will taste different and the smell from the water being mix with the run off of piggery actually clinged deep into its flesh, nobody likes it, wholesalers, retailers and comsumers...even me !

Edited September 15, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[RedBullHorn]

One of my favourite video, this one is from Lagos, Nigeria. 1'600 in this concrete pond measuring 6m x 3m, they were discussing about

space affecting sizes, the Clarias batrachus are 5 months old, weighs 800gm -1kg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V5wnaj44o0

Testing, testing (have be trying to embed video, guess the old way won't work any more)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V5wnaj44o0&list=FLHF6ViBaVgHcfS0QIx5O48g&index=1

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Woohoo~ It works ! Thanks to the "Insert media" button...

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[tingtong]

will have to wait till i get a better net, before able to watch youtube

A silly? question to Ozzydom:

Is this poison dangerous to human? when i mentioned to my wife first she was delighted that it can kill pla chon in the mud, but then came the question: can i still eat it after?

she would be heartbroken to waste those presumable big enough and delicious pla chons...me care less, i dont really eat fish much.

Still will need Ozzydom's answer to this matter

I wish to get down to practicals after the weekend and meeting at IssanAussie. Might not be the best season to start, but it have to do for now.

[ozzydom]

will have to wait till i get a better net, before able to watch youtube

A silly? question to Ozzydom:

Is this poison dangerous to human? when i mentioned to my wife first she was delighted that it can kill pla chon in the mud, but then came the question: can i still eat it after?

she would be heartbroken to waste those presumable big enough and delicious pla chons...me care less, i dont really eat fish much.

Still will need Ozzydom's answer to this matter

I wish to get down to practicals after the weekend and meeting at IssanAussie. Might not be the best season to start, but it have to do for now.

As I dont have a cast iron Thai tummy,I dont eat anything that has died in such a way,with me its "fresh or forget it".

If you dig a drainage sump in the lowest point of your pond and pump from there,you wont have much water left and any snakeheads will come up from the mud usually within 48 hours in warm weather, I leave it till then to administer the poison.

We try to catch as many small fish as possible with fine hand nets before poisoning ,these we boil up for the ducks and geese.

Spread the word that you are pumping a pond and the locals will turn up in droves to collect anything edible(and some things that you may think arnt )all at no cost to you.

Rotenone is another poison used to clear out unwanted fish,I sourced some about 6 years ago but havnt had any luck since,Merkk and Sigma both make it and it is one of the main products used in USA for that purpose.

[tingtong]

Thanks, Ozzydom!

this week we should start to pump out water from the lake, with our exsiting arrangement of pump it will take rather long time, but as the water will get lower we will get into fishing out what we can with nets, and either transfer to other lake, or find some other use for them.

today found this fish in the lake, could someone help with a name pls

[RedBullHorn]

That's a Mud Carp (Cirrhinus molitorella). Common Thai name is Pla Keng, it can weight up to >10kg.

The one below weighs 6kg.

To differentiate a Java Barb/Silver Barb and a Mud Carp , just look at the eye colour and the high hump before the spiny dorsal fin. All 3 species are ray-finned fishes, sub-class of the bony fishes.

Edited September 19, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[tingtong]

Thanks.

Good to know that it can grow quite big. Anyway, ended up going back to the lake, wife can eat later

[tingtong]

a little update:

the lake is empty, most fish is out, of the tiny ones still in and alive, as well as i think 2 pla chon or similar too...

quite muddy down there, so, cant be 100% sure.

but almost good is not good enough with the pla chon, so, i think i will try Ozzydom's poison if can get my hand on it today, in the little shallow water there is left in the bottom.

then the lime powder.

so far the the last 2 days was no rain, lucky for us.

the fishing was with some thai help, part family, part their friends, cost was food and drink, and transporting it...

the food was mostly fish they caught anyway. I think there must have about 20kg fish, mixed everything, then as mentioned they took lots of other things too out, loads of pla siw, those little never growing big fishes, and must have probably 3-4kg of snails too, as well a decent amount of small shrimps.

i let them have most of the fish, and all the rest, but no money was additional, so, a fair deal.

oh, they used mostly a home made battery operated device to knock out the fish with the current, then collect them...

these must be missed, probably hiding in the mud yesterday.

there must have at least 25 pla chon, and some other ugly brown one said to also be predator fish.

if all done, then a week or 2 later i hope to get the little tilapia in.

[RedBullHorn]

The ugly brown one could either be Marbled Sand Goby (Pla Boo), predatory fish. In the South or in Malaysia it fetch very high price, about 250 THB/kg wholesale. Or the Sucker fish (Pla Doot), also brown in colour but it is worthless.

This Marbled Sand Goby weighs about 1.5kg

Edited September 25, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[tingtong]

Pla Boo it is, indeed

had 2 pcs about 5-600gr each...

done with the poisoning, hopefully the last 2 pla chons what we took out...just before that 4 others came out unpoisoned...

tomorrow will do the liming, promise is that no rain till the 28th will see, i could live with that for sure.

how long i should wait after, till i start to fill back the water?

any guidelines there?

[Crushdepth]

Before you start, visit the provincial fisheries station and ask their advice on what is suitable in the area, where you can get juveniles etc..

* Up north, need to check out the average water temperature year round in the area you want to grow. If its too low the fish won't grow and you might only be able to farm seasonally rather than year round.

* Earthen ponds, concrete is too expensive. Also, tilapia can get a lot of food by filter feeding, earthen ponds are more fertile because the bottom can release nutrients into the water.

* Best to get monosex tilapia, if you don't they breed prolifically in the pond and you get large numbers of stunted fish (not market size).

* Don't even think about farming fish until you are 100% sure where and how you can sell them.

* Don't get the idea that its a case of just chucking some fish, water and food in a hole in the ground. It's a labour intensive business that demands constant attention.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Crushdepth

[tingtong]

hi

not sure if you read back a bit, most points been addressed, but let me just give a quick reply to it.

* local fisheries, and amphur's assigned person checked...amphur's person is really useless, or want to be that, i dont know, but nor have care much to think about it much. if the government want to pay such ppl, their call....no idea where to buy fingerlings, etc...only excuse of hers is that the amphur's poultry guy is on the same level, no idea about where to source chicks, apart from giving a number of a local in the area who contract farm to CP, surely not the way to get some, whatever.

Khon Kaen fisheries department also sells fingerlings, but usually in smaller numbers for pre-order, not too competitive prices, but decent variety.

* location is mid-Issan, Chaiyaphum provence, nearer to Khon Kaen actually, weather is not a problem.

* the ponds are earthen, 3 of them, experimenting with the smallest currently. however the pond walls seem to erode some, will need to conquer that at a later point, else just have bigger but shallower lake to live with.

* while the fisheries department not too competitive, i will get the tilapia from Nam Sai Farm, nice price, monosex tilapia, more trust in that then local guy's fingerlings...in a few 1000s already worth the drive down too...

* small scale farming...so, some we can sell retail, if any left before we get there...wife likes fish. i am sure on this scale it wont be that difficult to figure out a way to sell them when we are there, in 6 months time about...

* honestly, yet i dont see how it is more labour intensive then feeding the dogs daily, or our pet ducks...but since the rice grows most of the time by itself, i think we should be ok to cope with this work too in the moment.

thanks for the advices, things are about to get to the start now...will know more as time goes by.

[Dag]

Outstanding effort by the OP and his charity.....where is he by the way ??

[tingtong]

found maybe another way to get himself sponsored to an exotic vacation?

the charity set up fish farm with locals and do the work for them doesnt seem to be viable, i guess

[Dag]

Not in such a naive uninformed way at least.

[ozzydom]

tingtong.Nam Sai is a good choice for your stock,a word of caution though,you should have very little mortality so do not overstock initially.

To get good growth 1000-1500 fry per rai is plenty, water depth is of not much consequence as Pla Nin live mainly in the top 1 metre of water.(deep ponds are more a hinderance than a help ).

Introduce your fry after your pond water has aged for a couple of weeks.

Fry start better if placed in a hapa for about a month before release,they will learn to come back to where the hapa was for food.

Frog food is ideal to start your fry on.

If you intend giving your fish the minimum of care, read up on greenwater farming ,this creates an environment with a good supply of their natural food(phyto-plankton and micro organisms)making provision of supplementory feed less important.

[RedBullHorn]

Frog feed, <2mm pellet, 37% protein, 20kg sack

That's what i'm using.

Poison will evapourate in 5-7 sunny days, lime and fill up after the days mention and like Ozzy said, season your filled pond for a week to two.

Edited September 27, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[ozzydom]

Frog feed, <2mm pellet, 37% protein, 20kg sack

That's what i'm using.

Poison will evapourate in 5-7 sunny days, lime and fill up after the days mention and like Ozzy said, season your filled pond for a week to two.

Great minds think alike RBH.

[tingtong]

have little luck with the sunny days here, the rain is back...

luckily the day before i was able to finish the phoon khao.

my only hope that since i was quite light handed with the poisoning, the time will be enough for that to evaporate some, and should be deluted enough the rest (the rainwater already started to fill the lake, proably about 30cm water there now) , + in the next 3 weeks wont be fish in the lake anyway, will get them mid-Oct only.

in the meantime let the water age, as you both suggested, and i will have little family vacation, utilizing the mid term school holiday the best.

[RedBullHorn]

Frog feed, <2mm pellet, 37% protein, 20kg sack

That's what i'm using.

Poison will evapourate in 5-7 sunny days, lime and fill up after the days mention and like Ozzy said, season your filled pond for a week to two.

Great minds think alike RBH.

At your riped age of >70... sir, you lead i follow...