How To Think Like Thai

[Auntie Dah]

Auntie Dah is making some stories in Thai and word-for-word translation from thai to english, try to show you how Thai people think, if you have sound on your computer you can hear the first one at:

http://auntiedahtestsite.blogspot.com/

My student who helped me said that maybe Thaivisa.com would like to have these on its website, but tell me to ask "website would need to allow for embedding Macromedia Flash files". If anyone interested in this, please reply, I am happy to help.

[BambinA]

sawasdee ka Pah Dah, i will listen to it soon สวัสดีค่ะป้าดา แล้วหนูจะลองฟังนะค่ะ

ps ...i just ok checked it out .. good story and eng. subtitle is pretty funny ..i like it

Edited November 5, 2005 by BambinA

[siamesekitty]

Thanks for the link naka!

The English translations are... entertaining , but educational as well! (the word-for-word translation helps in understanding each Thai word )

Edited November 6, 2005 by siamesekitty

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

Very interesting to read the word by word translation of Thai, but I have a question.

To me if I see the word by word translation it not always make sense, I mean the order of the words in a sentence.

So Iwould like to know from A Thai that speaks and understands English which language makes more sense in terms of sentence structure.

But also from a foreigner that is good in Thai language.

To me if I read the word by word translation it is very messy (the Thai language I mean).

KR,

Alex

[meadish_sweetball]

I think to make the link useful, there should be two English translations.

First, the word for word translation, and then, the correct English translation.

It may also be a good idea to not translate words with special grammatical functions to the letter (for example ตัว 'tua' as 'body' - because like Alex says, it makes no sense in English to say [cat two body] แมวสองตัว - just as little as it makes sense in Thai to say อย่างไรเป็นคุณกำลังทำ (Word-for-word translation of 'How are you doing?') which is a perfectly acceptable phrase in English.

You need 'คุณสบายดีไหมครับ/คะ' underneath so a Thai person can understand the meaning of the phrase. Otherwise it is too confusing.

Arrange the text along the same lines for English speakers, like this:

แมว สอง ตัว

cat two body

Two cats.

I hope that helps.

[AlexLah]

Hi Meadish,

What I actually mean is that the word by word translation is a very good thing to sort of get a grasp on how Thai's are communicating.

But the difficult part for me is that when looking at the word by word translations I get a feeling that the Thai language is very messy at some times. I just ask myself how will I ever see/learn the logic of building a sentence in that way.

For me it is even more difficult because I have to translate the English translation of Thai into Dutch to fully understand.

So for me altough English is not my native language it makes more sense (easier to follow).

I asked a Thai friend about this and she did not know what I was talking about. For her English was very confusing sometimes.

I gave her the example of the two cats as you mentioned and she was just staring and asked me why I did not see the logic of cat two body.

Anyway hopefully one day I will be able to speak reasonable Thai and understand the logic behind it.

KR<

Alex

[sbk]

OK, so we don't say cat two body but we do say two glasses of water, two cans of coke. We do have a similar classifier system but not as extensive.

I have never bothered trying to "figure out" Thai but just accept it the way it is. Many rules in English are similarly non-sensical (i before e except after c, why? for an example).

[meadish_sweetball]

OK, so we don't say cat two body but we do say two glasses of water, two cans of coke. We do have a similar classifier system but not as extensive.

I have never bothered trying to "figure out" Thai but just accept it the way it is.  Many rules in English are similarly non-sensical (i before e except after c, why? for an example).

Some rules just are, that is correct - and when learning, you use the method that suits you the best.

Still, there is a clear logic behind 'maeow sawng tua' - but as a beginner you don't see that logic unless somebody explains it so it makes sense, like you just did above, sbk. That is the point I was trying to make above... By just providing a word-for-word translation into English, the story will not make much sense to us, and we will have lots of questions - but nobody to answer them.

To really understand classifiers, a beginner needs to hear something like the following:

In the Thai language, each noun takes an additional word specifically used for counting. This type of word is called 'classifier' or 'collective noun'.

This is the word order used in Thai when counting:

noun + numeral + classifier

maeow + sawng + tua

cat + two + body

The classifier for most animals and objects with four legs (like chairs and tables) is ตัว 'tua' or 'dtooa'. Other words take other classifiers. The classifier for humans is คน 'khon', which is also used as a normal noun, meaning 'person'.

When you do not know which classifier to use, you can always substitute the classifier word for อัน 'an'.

In actual fact, อัน 'an' should be restricted to small objects and gadgets, but it is also used as a catch-all classifier for instances when you do not know which one to use.

[sbk]

I've heard dtooah for a person too, seems insulting to me but maybe I'm wrong?

[BambinA]

I've heard dtooah for a person too, seems insulting to me but maybe I'm wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it can be insult babe ..actaully 'tua' or 'dtooa' ตัว in TH we use for animal and object ..

but u can use that word for fun with closed friend ..without insult

[Thaipwriter]

your website's not rendering properly when viewed with "Opera"

[johng]

I hear Thais calling each other ตัวเอง frequently, they never seem to be insulted.

[meadish_sweetball]

I hear Thais calling each other  ตัวเอง  frequently, they never seem to be insulted.

Indeed, but that's a different case, where ตัว 'tua' is not a classifier. In that context it just means 'yourself' or 'oneself' and is a synonym to ตนเอง (ton eeng).

As a contrast, if in reference to a party invitation, you would ask somebody 'มากันกี่ตัว' (maa kan kii tua) that would be an insult, because it indicates you count the guests as animals, not people - the correct classifier to use here is คน 'khon'.

[~G~]

Great work Auntie Dah! Makes it very easy to learn.

Edited November 10, 2005 by ~G~

[sbk]

I've heard dtooah for a person too, seems insulting to me but maybe I'm wrong?

it can be insult babe ..actaully 'tua' or 'dtooa' ตัว in TH we use for animal and object ..

but u can use that word for fun with closed friend ..without insult

Nope, just in general conversation. Could be a southern turn of phrase? For example: fat guy walking down the beach is dtua ooan. Seems mean to me but my husband says not.

[BambinA]

Nope, just in general conversation. Could be a southern turn of phrase? For example: fat guy walking down the beach is dtua ooan. Seems mean to me but my husband says not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

eemmm... how can i explain

'dtooa' ตัว = body / dtua ooan = fat body

but i get your point that it seems meen to you ..anyhow many mean words in farangland, sometime in TH its just common word

example,(just saw the racist tread) - Black, (dum) can be insult for farang but in thai its just common word, we dont mean to be "mean"

it just like it's pretty bad manner if we ask about "age" for farang..but in TH its not that big deal

[Tiger7Moth]

Hi Meadish,

What I actually mean is that the word by word translation is a very good thing to sort of get a grasp on how Thai's are communicating.

But the difficult part for me is that when looking at the word by word translations I get a feeling that the Thai language is very messy at some times. I just ask myself how will I ever see/learn the logic of building a sentence in that way.

For me it is even more difficult because I have to translate the English translation of Thai into Dutch to fully understand.

So for me altough English is not my native language it makes more sense (easier to follow).

I asked a Thai friend about this and she did not know what I was talking about. For her English was very confusing sometimes.

I gave her the example of the two cats as you mentioned and she was just staring and asked me why I did not see the logic of cat two body.

Anyway hopefully one day I will be able to speak reasonable Thai and understand the logic behind it.

KR<

Alex

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have been studying with a Thai tutor here in Bangkok. For the most part, for a long time, I have tried to understand Thai language and structure. Often, things don't make sense to me and I will ask my tutor. Sometimes she is able to explain. But, some times she says, "just have to know" - as in there is no explanation.

I am now trying to not be so ridged. If I understand something, OK, if not, I will just try to learn the Thai expression and accept it.

In addition to "natural" differences between Thai and English, I am sure Thai language is full of idiomatic expressions, as is English. When talking to my Thai tutor in English, I have become aware that I often use idomatic expressions that don't make sense literally. Here is an example from American English, "ballpark estimate". I know what it means from experience but if I did not know from experience, even with English as my native language it would not make any sense. This expression means the estimate does not have to be precise. If you think of a sports stadium and playing field, the estimate could be anywhere on the playing field even if the actual "number" is in a very different place on the playing field. But, if it is not even in the stadium, "outside the ballpark", it is not OK.

Some of the idiomatic expressions I say, I can explain. But, some I have no idea why the collection of words convey the meaning they do. "Just have to know".

[Auntie Dah]

sawasdee ka Pah Dah, i will listen to it soon  สวัสดีค่ะป้าดา แล้วหนูจะลองฟังนะค่ะ

ps ...i just ok  checked it out .. good story  and  eng. subtitle  is  pretty funny ..i like  it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Auntie Dah thanks everybody for comments, and will make a new story with better sound this week.

Maybe it will help if english speaking people remember that they say sometimes "I would like beer Singh, two bottles" which is similar with Thai thinking. My student tell me that in American Army they must say "Beans, two cans, screwdriver, one each". So I think that if you listen to direct translation you can quickly learn how to "think Thai".

Thai people sometimes embarrassed to tell direct translation because their teacher long time ago say "that is WRONG" even though the teacher can not speak very good english themself! But I think that if you learn "think thai" you will understand more about thai people and maybe learn thai faster and more fun.

[sleepyjohn]

Auntie Dah

I went to

http://auntiedahtestsite.blogspot.com/

and thought the idea brilliant.

Are you going to do more?

John

[sleepyjohn]

Also if you hear someone referring to you as "mun" smack them in the mouth of they're small and weak looking. This happened to me in a row over a car rental where we were both explaining to a policeman. But as far as I'm concerned "mun" is fishwife talk.

John

[meadish_sweetball]

If you're in the North, you'll have to slap a lot of people then, as using 'mun' to refer to a third person is nothing strange in the local dialect, and not at all as disrespectful as it is in a Central Thai context.

It looks like you've been here for quite some time and already know that if you get too aggressive, you lose face. You may make people fear you if you are imposing enough, but nobody will show you any true respect.

If you want people to stop using 'mun' when referring to you, just tell them you find it offensive. If they persist, you may give them a knuckle sandwich (and face the consequences). That's the rules of the game. You instigate aggression, and in everybody's eyes, you lose.

[Nepal4me]

I've heard dtooah for a person too, seems insulting to me but maybe I'm wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it can be insult babe ..actaully 'tua' or 'dtooa' ตัว in TH we use for animal and object ..

but u can use that word for fun with closed friend ..without insult

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, just in general conversation. Could be a southern turn of phrase? For example: fat guy walking down the beach is dtua ooan. Seems mean to me but my husband says not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sbk, I think in this case "dtua" isn't actually a classifier. It's more like saying "that person has a fat body". I would interpret it as the Thai way of shortening sentances. It would have a similar meaning to "Khon neung khon nii mii dtua uan" So the "dtua" in this case wouldn't be a classifier but rather an adjective.

Meadish, would this be correct?

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes Nepal, that's the way I interpret it too - 'dtua' just means 'body' in this case, it is not used to 'count' the noun. If we go back to the original example that set off this discussion, that is why a straight translation from Thai into English makes little sense - because when 'dtua' functions as a classifier, it should not be translated as 'body' - then you are not conveying the function it serves in Thai, you are only confusing the reader.

A similar example would be if I translated Swedish to the letter -

What are you for one? I feel not again you.

Vad är du för en? Jag känner inte igen dig.

(=Who are you? I don't recognize you.)

This word order makes perfect sense in Swedish, but as you can see, it looks really messed up in English - a translation like that can only be clarifying if it is accompanied by a correct translation to compare it with - then you will perhaps be able to grasp the underlying patterns in the other language - if there is no correct translation, you are only left with confusion, and perhaps the feeling that the other language is 'illogical' - because you fail to see the structure.