Bt100,000 Excise Tax Cut For First-Car Buyers

[katabeachbum]

Trolling post from a newbie removed. Please read up on Forum rules. More trollnig or breach of rules will face more severe consequences

[katabeachbum]

Does the buyer get any guarantee that he/she gets his 100K rebate one year from now? I mean if this gets popular we are talking about millions of Baht.

Will it be printed in the sales contract, finance contract or in the letter saying you can't sell the car in five years?

The Thai Gov't has earmarked 30 Billion Baht to support the scheme - so your millions are well covered

Given that finance companies are not able to become the rebate beneficiaries, what it'll actually mean is that it'll become harder to finance a car, not easier (due to higher risk of default due to falling into debt with the excise dept).

So the Govt's expecation that it will stilmulate an additional 500,000 new car sales is very unlikely to materialize.

Bottom line, they won't be needing all of that 30BN Baht allotted to the scheme.

As for the the transfer of ownership waiver, this will go into the vehicles Tabien Rot (blue book) as a permanent record, and the only way around it will be to repay the excise department the full tax amount rebated, and have them offically cancel the waiver. It's impossible to transfer ownership of a vehicle without the Tabien Rot.

the release of 500.000 vehicls for sale in 5-6 years will have a major impact on all second hand value. Od they do not choose to graduate the transfer clause pending on how much have been refunded, to spread impact on secondhand market. Like 30k refund 3 years, 60k = 4 years and 100k 5 years, this would make it a 3-6 years scheme, not destroying all secondhand market in a 15 months frame

[wandrinstar]

Bout time they started to scrap some like the U.K.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Bout time they started to scrap some like the U.K.

Problem is, theyre' not scrapping anything like the UK's GFC-driven Scrappage scheme. All it means for us is more traffic congestion, more red plate lunatics, harder fininace, and even worse service levels from an already crappy sales team.

So glad I don't have to shop at these price points, and that none of my cars would qualify for the scheme

Edited September 18, 2011 by MoonRiverOasis

[MoonRiverOasis]

the release of 500.000 vehicls for sale in 5-6 years will have a major impact on all second hand value.

I've been to'ing and fro'ing on this one for a few days now - and I get paid to advise on these types of things

On one hand, you have the price gap between new and used substantially narrowed, along with the price-gap between 4-door and 2-door pickups normalized. This suggests that new 2-door pickup sales and used car prices alike will be impacted.

On the other hand you have the bombshell that the beneficiary for the scheme is non-transferrable, so financiers cannot take full advantage of the scheme.

Then you have the absolute fact that this promotion will encourage more people to take on a debt than might normally would, meaning two things: finance defaults will increase, and thus finance costs will increase (along with the entry requirements) - I'm certain the actuaries at all of the finance co's have already been factoring this into their rates and approvals processes.

All of this suggests that new car finance will become even harder to get - which leads to a knock-on effect of increasing demand in the used-car market, thus supporting used car values.

At the end of the day, my reckoning is that most people who take advantage of the scheme and dont' default will be very people who didn't need the scheme in the first place, that finance will become so hard to get that the program will struggle to meet even half of it's intended target sales, and that used vehicles prices will be effected almost immediately and remain effected for at least the next 5-8 years - but perhaps not to the degree that might otherwise seem logical.

Edited September 18, 2011 by MoonRiverOasis

[LeCharivari]

the release of 500.000 vehicls for sale in 5-6 years will have a major impact on all second hand value.

I've been to'ing and fro'ing on this one for a few days now - and I get paid to advise on these types of things

.....

At the end of the day, my reckoning is that most people who take advantage of the scheme and dont' default will be very people who didn't need the scheme in the first place, that finance will become so hard to get that the program will struggle to meet even half of it's intended target sales, and that used vehicles prices will be effected almost immediately and remain effected for at least the next 5-8 years - but perhaps not to the degree that might otherwise seem logical.

My view too, MRO, for what its worth.

I think the panic over a "major impact" on second hand prices may well be unfounded, particularly as the scheme is only legislated to last just over a year. Many Thais eligible (over 21, first time buyers) who will not need finance may well not want to keep their vehicles for the minimum 5 year period so the numbers actually taking up the scheme may be a lot less than anticipated. My guess would be that there would be some impact now, as those eligible who might have bought a recent secondhand car will buy a new one instead, but it will be nothing like the full amount of excise refund some have suggested as that would only apply if all buyers were eligible, and a larger (but temporary) impact in 5 - 6 years time when those buying under the scheme are first able to sell their cars.

For those thinking of selling a sub-1500cc car or a 4 door pick-up, then, it would seem that the time to avoid selling would be before 31 Dec 2012 (when the scheme ends) and after Sept 2016 (5 years from when it started) for a couple of years when there will be a lot of owners wanting to sell who bought under the scheme. If the Vigo replacement comes out in 2014 then trading in my PreRunner shouldn't be affected ......

[Felt 35]

Does the buyer get any guarantee that he/she gets his 100K rebate one year from now? I mean if this gets popular we are talking about millions of Baht.

Will it be printed in the sales contract, finance contract or in the letter saying you can't sell the car in five years?

The Thai Gov't has earmarked 30 Billion Baht to support the scheme - so your millions are well covered

Given that finance companies are not able to become the rebate beneficiaries, what it'll actually mean is that it'll become harder to finance a car, not easier (due to higher risk of default due to falling into debt with the excise dept).

So the Govt's expecation that it will stilmulate an additional 500,000 new car sales is very unlikely to materialize.

Bottom line, they won't be needing all of that 30BN Baht allotted to the scheme.

As for the the transfer of ownership waiver, this will go into the vehicles Tabien Rot (blue book) as a permanent record, and the only way around it will be to repay the excise department the full tax amount rebated, and have them offically cancel the waiver. It's impossible to transfer ownership of a vehicle without the Tabien Rot.

Covered….and safe and sure as the minimum wage promise,TIT

Personally I prefer bicycle ….. Paraya`s preference is another subject!

[stefan2519]

The full list of vehicles that will be able to claim the excise back

Cars, Single cabs and Double cabs

All have been copied from another site!

[MoonRiverOasis]

The full list of vehicles that will be able to claim the excise back

Cars, Single cabs and Double cabs

All have been copied from another site!

Just found them at the MThai news website...

Pricing for the new Ranger, BT-50 and Colorado are all in there... someone is going to get into trouble for this

[MoonRiverOasis]

The full list of vehicles that will be able to claim the excise back

Cars, Single cabs and Double cabs

All have been copied from another site!

Just found them at the MThai news website...

Pricing for the new Ranger, BT-50 and Colorado are all in there... someone is going to get into trouble for this

OK, have only processed about half of the new models so far, but already it's quite clear that prices for the next gen are going to increase anywhere from 50K to a whopping 150K Baht.

A cynic might suggest that the excise rebate has been "priced in"... Good thing I'm not a cynic hey

Edited September 19, 2011 by MoonRiverOasis

[skybluestu]

The full list of vehicles that will be able to claim the excise back

Cars, Single cabs and Double cabs

All have been copied from another site!

Just found them at the MThai news website...

Pricing for the new Ranger, BT-50 and Colorado are all in there... someone is going to get into trouble for this

Any chance of a link please?

[MoonRiverOasis]

The full list of vehicles that will be able to claim the excise back

Cars, Single cabs and Double cabs

All have been copied from another site!

Just found them at the MThai news website...

Pricing for the new Ranger, BT-50 and Colorado are all in there... someone is going to get into trouble for this

Any chance of a link please?

http://news.mthai.com/headline-news/131121.html

[skybluestu]

The full list of vehicles that will be able to claim the excise back

Cars, Single cabs and Double cabs

All have been copied from another site!

Just found them at the MThai news website...

Pricing for the new Ranger, BT-50 and Colorado are all in there... someone is going to get into trouble for this

Any chance of a link please?

http://news.mthai.co...ews/131121.html

Thanks. I can see the expected rebate amount but it doesn't have the actual price of the cars/trucks. I though you said there was an increase of 50-150,000 baht?

[MoonRiverOasis]

Thanks. I can see the expected rebate amount but it doesn't have the actual price of the cars/trucks. I though you said there was an increase of 50-150,000 baht?

Nope, that bit requires a little math and some inside knowledge of retail margins..

When I get some more free time I'll post up a list,,, if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

[stefan2519]

Well I found this on another site, I'm not to sure if I'm allowed to post it but what the hell.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Well I found this on another site, I'm not to sure if I'm allowed to post it but what the hell.

Those seem reasonably close, but appear to be based on a constant retail margin, which is not the actual case - in fact there's trucks listed there at > 1M Baht, which would exclude them from the list (1M Baht is the ceiling price for the rebate), heh.

Generally speaking, retail margins are proportionally higher on lower models, with margins decreasing as you move up the range - but special models can sometimes have quite a sharp increase in margin.

In any case, if you were to +/-5% of these, it'd be very close

[wandrinstar]

My concern isnt the way it will work, just that when i want a new one, im not waiting behind a load of Perhapsers .Now Honda has assured me that as a longstanding customer, or rather my Wife, if i want the New City, its waiting for collection as soon as the first one gets in ,and No Deposi, and No Delay. Glad someone worked me out !!.I want a Box of Freebies too.

[MoonRiverOasis]

It appears that Ford's lobbying to have the engine capacity limit for the 100,000 Baht excise tax rebate raised from 1500cc to 1600cc might just be successful - the Thai media is abuzz tonight with reports that the proposal is being sent to cabinet next week, and it would appear that opinion is that it will go through.

If the ceiling is raised, it's not yet clear whether it will be a special case just for the Ford Fiesta 1.6L (Ford's primary argument was that their 1.6L was more fuel effecient than competitor's 1.5L engines), or whether it will apply across the board, in which case it would also benefit other manufacturers.

Edited September 22, 2011 by MoonRiverOasis

[katabeachbum]

It appears that Ford's lobbying to have the engine capacity limit for the 100,000 Baht excise tax rebate raised from 1500cc to 1600cc might just be successful - the Thai media is abuzz tonight with reports that the proposal is being sent to cabinet, and it would appear that opinion is that it will go through.

If the ceiling is raised, it's not yet clear whether it will be a special case just for the Ford Fiesta 1.6L (Ford's primary argument was that their 1.6L was more fuel effecient than competitor's 1.5L engines), or whether it will apply across the board, in which case it would also benefit other manufacturers.

esepcially Toyota with their Altis Corolla 1,6, and as Toyota is very close to the cabinet, I can see this happening within 10 days

[MoonRiverOasis]

It appears that Ford's lobbying to have the engine capacity limit for the 100,000 Baht excise tax rebate raised from 1500cc to 1600cc might just be successful - the Thai media is abuzz tonight with reports that the proposal is being sent to cabinet, and it would appear that opinion is that it will go through.

If the ceiling is raised, it's not yet clear whether it will be a special case just for the Ford Fiesta 1.6L (Ford's primary argument was that their 1.6L was more fuel effecient than competitor's 1.5L engines), or whether it will apply across the board, in which case it would also benefit other manufacturers.

esepcially Toyota with their Altis Corolla 1,6, and as Toyota is very close to the cabinet, I can see this happening within 10 days

Yep. It would also drop the effective price of the Lancer 1.6L CNG to just 552K (MT) or 592K (AT).

Mazda's remaining stock of the old 3 would continue to be problem though, as they were imported from the Philippines..

[katabeachbum]

It appears that Ford's lobbying to have the engine capacity limit for the 100,000 Baht excise tax rebate raised from 1500cc to 1600cc might just be successful - the Thai media is abuzz tonight with reports that the proposal is being sent to cabinet, and it would appear that opinion is that it will go through.

If the ceiling is raised, it's not yet clear whether it will be a special case just for the Ford Fiesta 1.6L (Ford's primary argument was that their 1.6L was more fuel effecient than competitor's 1.5L engines), or whether it will apply across the board, in which case it would also benefit other manufacturers.

esepcially Toyota with their Altis Corolla 1,6, and as Toyota is very close to the cabinet, I can see this happening within 10 days

Yep. It would also drop the effective price of the Lancer 1.6L CNG to just 552K (MT) or 592K (AT).

Mazda's remaining stock of the old 3 would continue to be problem though, as they were imported from the Philippines..

hm, altis corolla 1,6 NGV auto at 740k with tax refund all the sudden became interesting

as the government is about to order 4.000 NGV busses on 5 year lease and 10 year maintance deal, CNG seems to remain

[jamora]

Isn't this new Tax Rebate illegal? It is clearly violating GATT Article 16 under WTO law. And I know that Thailand could try to use Article 24 about regional trade agreements, but then they would still have problems with Proton made in Malaysia and the Toyota Avanza from Indonesia. And as Thailand has entered top ten of the biggest auto industries, Article 18 (about the protection of infant industries) would not really protect them either.

I read that the new finance minister, Boonsong Teriyapirom, claims that this is not an intervention, as it is meant to help the consumers, not the producers, but WTO clearly states that it does not matter who it was meant to help, what matters is what it actually does to the market!

I wonder if the new government would have a lawsuit coming soon... One can only hope, as this new law seems to do more bad then good!

[katabeachbum]

does anyone know what happend to Fords 1600cc Fiesta attempt, or 1600cc limit in general? I am about to order a car under this scheme, and prefere the FiestaS hatch or Altis1,6 over City, if I can choose

[soap]

does anyone know what happend to Fords 1600cc Fiesta attempt, or 1600cc limit in general? I am about to order a car under this scheme, and prefere the FiestaS hatch or Altis1,6 over City, if I can choose

My wife tells me that it was on the news this morning that the goverment had declined to include

a 1600 cc in the scheme, but please wait for confirmation.

Can anyone 100% confirm that this scheme is only for Thai and does not include the farang.

I am pretty sure it does not include a farang but as yet i have not read anything that says the farang

cant be included.

[skybluestu]

does anyone know what happend to Fords 1600cc Fiesta attempt, or 1600cc limit in general? I am about to order a car under this scheme, and prefere the FiestaS hatch or Altis1,6 over City, if I can choose

My wife tells me that it was on the news this morning that the goverment had declined to include

a 1600 cc in the scheme, but please wait for confirmation.

Can anyone 100% confirm that this scheme is only for Thai and does not include the farang.

I am pretty sure it does not include a farang but as yet i have not read anything that says the farang

cant be included.

Yes Pat, Thai only with Thai ID card and house book.

[katabeachbum]

does anyone know what happend to Fords 1600cc Fiesta attempt, or 1600cc limit in general? I am about to order a car under this scheme, and prefere the FiestaS hatch or Altis1,6 over City, if I can choose

My wife tells me that it was on the news this morning that the goverment had declined to include

a 1600 cc in the scheme, but please wait for confirmation.

Can anyone 100% confirm that this scheme is only for Thai and does not include the farang.

I am pretty sure it does not include a farang but as yet i have not read anything that says the farang

cant be included.

I will buy one in Thai name first, and if I find myself to qualify I will buy my January Ford Ranger in my name. Several ways to exclude most foreigners without stating it. ID number and Tabien Baan registration being the simplest.

[kartman]

I did read the Government are still trying to work it out (as in my post #38 ) so everybody is happy and most importantly the WTO, and that it therefore may include imports .I don't know about 1600 cc the trade doesn't want that they want anything across the board under 1 million baht ceiling.

[stingray]

Used car tents owner must be steaming

Now the one year old Yaris with 60000km on it will be difficult to sale with just a 40000 THB price difference against a new car.

Wandrinstar, I think the engine size doesn't matter for pickup trucks, only for sedan.

Noone steaming, because they (we) can rent those cars for one year and still get a good price.

Anyway, the finance approval for a "first time car buyer" will be very difficult or almost impossible, because if that "first time car buyer" doesn't pay the monthly rates anymore, after one year when he collected the refund, the finance company have to take (reposess) the car back and can not sale (tranfer ownership) for another 4 years, which is, in other words, a total loss for the finance company. They will propharely sit on huge mountains of unpaid cars, if they loan money to first time car buyers.

And remember the plan was only to help for the poor local first time car buyers (i gess not for foreigners) and if now some farang have the "glory idea", try to finance a new car in his 70' year old grandmother in law or in a bargirl's name, they will not pass the finance requirements either (6 months clean bank records amd clean employment). So the benefits are maybe only for cash buyers. Foreigners can buy in "bg's" name in cash, so the chances that the car will be gone on the next day will be quite high.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Anyway, the finance approval for a "first time car buyer" will be very difficult or almost impossible, because if that "first time car buyer" doesn't pay the monthly rates anymore, after one year when he collected the refund, the finance company have to take (reposess) the car back and can not sale (tranfer ownership) for another 4 years, which is, in other words, a total loss for the finance company.

Yes - so the only real options a finance company have are: 1) Insure the standard 25% downpayment is paid to the dealer PLUS collect and escrow the excise tax refundable amount up-front, or 2) only finance people with 5 years or more of work history, and in a profession whcih suggests they'll continue to be employable/suable for a long time to come, or 3) Require other fully-owned assets as additional collatoral.

None of these are commensurate to a first car buyer..

[wandrinstar]

If they were to check on the Houses, they wouldnt lend enough to buy a tea pot. A fair few will go AWOL, or catch fire .Another half wit populist idea from the crook.