Farang Held In Phuket Drug Bust

[Here Today]

Yes, it would be a story of a world where harm minimisation is what's most important. Governments would cease to lie about substances, instead choosing to educate the public. Everyone would be free to use if they do not harm anyone but themselves.

But does it work this way? A friend of mine who has been clean for years recently started using heroin and cocaine again and is moving around from place to place downtown. This time she has her 6 yr. old daughter with her who is supposed to be going to school. She was in school for a couple of weeks and now is out again, the social services has been phoning here trying to track them down. My friend is a native woman who was apprehended from her own parents and adopted out to a white family when she was 3 or 4. Don't know what will happen to her daughter now, the girl's father molested her when she was younger and is not allowed to see her now by court order.

[britmaveric]

Sorry no sympathy what so ever for anyone who peddles drugs and this includes family.

Perhaps govt should begin a new plan for those who get caught smuggling drugs they should be made to use the entire product themselves say in a couple days.

[bkkmadness]

Our own govt. done a pretty good job smuggling drugs back in the days of the empire, or at least by turning a blind eye to it.

Its a profitable business, always will be whilst it stays illegal, but of course some get caught.

Sod em really, they knew the risks and I'm sure they made plenty of cash during it and if they have any brains they have some of that stashed to help them out of this situation and cover them when they get out.

Edited November 5, 2005 by bkkmadness

[markokang]

Firstly, I hate drugs and most things against the law, thats why we have laws!

I believe in punishment,...BUT..........

No one should be put to death for anything!

Life in jail is enough (as long as it is really life!)

Anyone that says death is deserved needs a head check (Or a heart check)

We are living breathing animals, death is something reserved for someone or something greater than us! How dare any of you judge and condem a living being to death!

<deleted>!

[Bangkokbob]

BANGKOK (AFP): -- Thai police have arrested a Briton, his Thai wife and

two Hong Kong men in connection with a seizure of 40 kilograms (88

pounds) of heroin.

The Hong Kong residents, Chung Oi Fung, 42, and Leung Pak Lun, 21, were

arrested late Friday in front of a hotel in the popular Thai resort

island of Phuket.

The Hong Kong men were carrying two pieces of luggage containing 100

bars of pure heroin estimated at 35 million baht (875,000 dollars).

Police later arrested Briton Ian James Newton, 49, and his Thai wife

Sungwan Newton, 38, who were waiting to receive the heroin from the

Hong Kong men at the hotel.

"The suspects confessed to possession of heroin and drug trafficking,

which could earn them a death sentence" if convicted, Colonel Chatree

Paisalsilp of Thailand's Narcotics Suppression Bureau Police told AFP.

He said the four were part of an international drug trafficking gang

that authorities from Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Norway and the

United States had cooperated in tracking for three months.

--AFP 2005-11-05

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Bangkokbob]

This should teach them not to hone in on a Thai controlled business. They didn't arrest any Thais did they ? Must be a farang controlled lab somewhere near by.

[cdnvic]

Didn't we go through this conversation the other day?  I believe it made 27 pages before it was closed.

  C'mon cdnvic, you should know better, this thread will go nowhere.

I don't doubt it, but we have to give it a chance. There are those out there who are willing to debate intelligently. Unfortunately they usually have manners and get drowned out by the emptyheaded bufoonery that don't.

cv

[wombat]

people keep on smuggling it because they do in fact get away with it, and make a lot of money in the process. I'd hardly say it is much more risky than rock climbing, but you make a lot more cash out of it.

So why the 'why do they do it' comments. What percentage of people do you think get caught?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oz customs guesstimate they catch 10% of what comes into the country

[Phuket_Brad]

NICE ONE,IF GUILTY HOPE THEY GET THE CHOP !!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the Britt is convicted, the boat will be siezed and put up for auction. However, this will take a long time, maybe years?

[Nam Kao]

lethal injection

[retirednavyman]

Life imprisonment without the possibility of parole is a much worse punishment than having a death sentence hanging over your head (no pun intended, lol).

They should rot away in a Thai prison (which i'm sure is much worse than a stateside prison) and the authorities should throw away the key. A death sentence is not necessarily a deterrent.....

Mike from Tacoma Washington

[ayakiawe]

Many years ago I had a horrible back ache.

I mean really painful and non stop pain.

It was just too much to bear and I can take a lot of pain believe me.

Normally I don’t take any drugs or anything like that for anything. Not even aspirin!

But after ten days of… well let’s just say too much pain; I started to think more about taking something just to get some relief.

Someone offered me a prescription drug made from the poppy stem, I forget the exact name.

Another “friend” offered me a pure looking white powder called heroine made from the same plant I have been told.

So I said, ok I never tired it before and I could at least tell everyone I tried it once in my life so I took the heroine option as long as I was going to try a pain killer.

He put it on the end of a cig (I don’t smoke either normally nothing) and I took two hits.

All I want to say is it was the worst experience of my life, no question about it. I have had some rotten times on this planet and this was the worst for sure!

Right there and then I thought to myself, if anyone sells this drug they should be shot dead no question about it.

I feel sorry for the Oz man now in Singapore now who was trying to help his twin brother (I have a twin brother too) out but got caught with the stuff too and will be put to death it sounds like soon.

But I can understand why too.

If you haven’t tried this junk maybe you can’t understand how bad it really is. Don’t its not worth it at any cost!

My only question is how someone could ever try it twice?

Got to be really sick in the head!

Why would people pay money for this vial trash?

What kind of world do we live in that people would want to use this in the first place?

Time to get our values reestablished I think on this planet don’t you?

Also why do people put so much energy out for cigarettes and alcohol, even on this web site?

People are actually sounding proud of it too.

It’s a very sick world and people as I look out there and I don’t want to be a part of it.

I feel shame to be in the same race of people who are so destructive to themselves and the planet so very often I must tell you.

People its time to wake up before its too late!

[Sir Burr]

Am not going to get into this debate as I've made my views plain in other threads, but I thought I would share this little known fact.

Up until the mid-eighties, the Singapore government would give elderly Chinese opium addicts a free weekly allowance of opium. This has now stopped.

I don't know if any TV members were knocking around Singapore in the eighties, but if anybody used to go to the original Bugis Street, they would remember a little old Chinese lady in her seventies who used to walk around selling vibrators and dildoes from a large carry-bag. She was a fixture there. Come Friday, she would get her opium allowance from the government and then try to sell it.

Anybody remember her?

[DaveYo]

Except for hearsay and a false passport there's not much of a case against the Kiwi & Thai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a thai court that's enough for a conviction!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These two will not get convicted of dope dealing. Yes the two hong kong pups say that these two are involved, but without catching them in the act of such involvement they are off the hook. When they were searched nothing was found on that boat or in their rooms containing anything illegal. However, the foreigner with fake passport will be charged, and most likely his wife will get to walk out of this free since she is thai national also with no hard evidence on her. Seems the drug agents made their move a weeeeeeeee bit tooo soon.

the two hong kong pups face the heaviest of the rap in all this.

Daveyo

[bannork]

Thailand has some of the most draconian drug laws in Asia and scores of foreigners are on death row for drug-related convictions.

Is this true? I thought no foreigner had been executed, or indeed sentenced to death, for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia all impose the death penalty for drug trafficking. Thailand is lenient by comparrison! Anyone remember this pair??

Two young Australians, Brian Chambers and Kevin Barlow, were hanged in Pudu Prison on July 07, 1986 for alleged drug-trafficking 141.9 grams of heroin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OR THIS ONE??????????

Chilling glimpse into Nguyen's fate

By Catharine Munro

November 6, 2005

With fears growing that Australian heroin trafficker Van Tuong Nguyen could be hanged in Singapore as early as Friday, a gruesome anti-drugs campaign by its Government is providing a rare glimpse into how authorities are planning to end his young life.

The Singaporean Government keeps a tight lid on details of its capital punishment program but, as part of its ruthless anti-drugs push, the story of "David W" reveals the chilling, clinical fate that awaits Nguyen.

"They weighed me today, not because they are worried about me putting on weight, no, not for that," the heroin trafficker writes in his journal.

"They need to know how heavy I am to calculate the length of the rope. It's very scientific. The men in the lab coats write books on how to do it right."

Lawyers don't expect to find out whether their three-year campaign to save Nguyen, 25, will be over until his mother, Kim, receives a letter advising her to make funeral arrangements.

Lex Lasry, QC, said the letter should come two weeks before the appointed date.

But others in his support group fear death could be as imminent as the end of this week, despite the pleas of the Australian Government, human rights bodies and Nguyen's family and friends.

Federal Parliament will pass a motion of "profound regret" tomorrow that the Singaporean Government will continue with his planned execution.

The motion will have support across the political spectrum. Staunch Liberal Party human rights activist Judi Moylan, from South Australia, will move the motion, which will be seconded by NSW Labor MP Julia Irwin. But such pleas have so far failed to rescue Nguyen from the gallows.

In the days leading up to his hanging, authorities are expected to give Mrs Nguyen a daily 30-minute visit, instead of the regular allowance of one 30-minute visit a week, because her son has been "banking" his visiting time.

But she will not be able to touch the son she gave birth to in a refugee camp and brought to Australia on a boat. Instead, he will sit behind a thick glass pane.

A Catholic chaplain is available to Nguyen, who converted to the faith a year ago. His last rites are expected to be formulated together, said Peter Norden, who presides at Nguyen's former primary school in the Melbourne suburb of Richmond.

The chaplain would probably consult with Nguyen about whether final rituals were conducted before or after he died, Father Norden said.

Traditionally, the executed are anointed with oil after death.

"[but] that would be something that the priest would discuss," said Father Norden, who has visited death-row prisoners around the world.

As church groups and human rights watchdog Amnesty International hold candlelight vigils across Australia, Nguyen is expected to be moved into a special cell and be allowed to choose his meals. He will be executed in secret, unlike in the US, and Mrs Nguyen will only be able to collect his body or remains hours later.

"You are advised to make the necessary funeral arrangements," the prison superintendent has written to other families of death row prisoners.

"If you are unable to do so, cremation will be carried out by the state."

Before Nguyen is hanged, authorities will prepare his noose by putting him on the scales, says a website sanctioned by Singapore's Minister of Home Affairs, which provides a rare glimpse into death row procedures.

The website, by the National Council against Drug Abuse, tells the story of David W - an inmate who was hanged five years ago for heroin trafficking. It is designed to scare teenagers away from using illegal drugs. It reveals a strategy for ensuring a quick, struggle-free death for traffickers such as Nguyen, who will be hooded just before execution.

"There are good reasons for hooding the prisoner. First, it is very important that the condemned person does not move at the last moment, just as the lever is being pulled, which could easily alter the position of the noose and thus cause them a slow death.

"The second reason is to minimise rope burns and marking of the skin." Mrs Nguyen will receive a death certificate that will note "fracture/ dislocation of the cervical spine consequent upon judicial hanging".

Mr Lasry and fellow Melbourne barrister Julian McMahon remain tight-lipped about what legal avenues are still available.

The refusal to consider further appeals followed the delivery of a petition by 100 Australian parliamentarians to Singapore to spare the Australian's life.

Source: The Sun-Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/chilling-...195.html?page=2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When 4 Thai guys were hanged 3 or 4 years ago in Singapore the newspapers went into quite a lot of detail, they said after hanging the prisoner is cut down, put on a slab and his, (I think wrist), vein is severed, draining the prisoner of blood to ensure he's really dead.

[midas]

I dont drink anymore ( gave it up 4years ago ) and I dont smoke and I certainly don`t do drugs ..............But I also don`t know the answer to the following question. How, when and why did World Governments decide drugs are so evil that people can be executed for mere possession ( i.e. not even consumption ) and yet alcohol is accepted by the State ( of World Economies ) to such an extent that it is taxable source of revenue for them ? Who decided and when the fine line is between the social damage from alcohol abuse ( e.g. drunk drivers causing innocent fatalities )compared to other drug abuse ? In other words why has alchohol been " accepted " while in Thailand even Ectasy can in theory earn you a death sentence if its a big enough quantity ?

[vilma]

The police then went to the Yacht Haven Marina and arrested Briton Ian James Newton, 49, and his Thai wife Sangwan Newton, 38, the owners of the 15-meter yacht Short Time.

===================================================

I have no compassion for any drug-dealing people. As they would say in Thailand "are you Tupid ?!"

I am, however very interested in this 15 Mtr. yacht named "Short-Time" ! Maybe the 'tupid' British-Kiwi needs money for his attorneys ? ? Wanna sell this boat ? ?  I am very keen to discuss this matter.

Me Too but I am in hongkong

[torrenova]

The reality is that they will not face the death sentence and the king's "advisors" will grant either a transfer to their own country or release the bastards after a few years.

I say execute them, but slowly.

The old medieval stuff I like. Say a hungry rat on the sromach, under a tin and a candle put on the tin to heat it up. The rat then eats through the person to get away from the heat !

Or, as it was bonfire night yesterday, hung, drawn and quartered ?

[Neeranam]

legalise the stuff and end the problem

Hear here!

How, when and why did World Governments decide drugs are so evil that people can be executed for mere possession ( i.e. not even consumption ) and yet alcohol is accepted by the State ( of World Economies ) to such an extent that it is taxable source of revenue for them ? Who decided and when the fine line is between the social damage from alcohol abuse ( e.g. drunk drivers causing innocent fatalities )compared to other drug abuse ? In other words why has alchohol been " accepted " while in Thailand even Ectasy can in theory earn you a death sentence if its a big enough quantity ?

Very good questions!

Pure heroin is not any worse than pure whisky.

[george]

Update:

Australian police help arrest drug baron

BANGKOK: -- Australian and New Zealand investigators have assisted in the arrest of a British man and his Thai wife in a drugs bust which resulted in the seizure of 100 bars of pure heroin worth about $A2 million.

Police in Bangkok said authorities from Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, Norway and the United States had been tracking the drug barons for three months.

Police in Phuket arrested Englishman Ian Newton, 49, and his Thai wife, Sungwan, 38, as they waited to take delivery of the drugs at a local hotel.

The drugs weighed 40 kilograms and they were found in the luggage of two Hong Kong men, Chung Oi Fung, 42, and Leung Pak Lung, 21, as they arrived outside the Phuket hotel on Saturday.

All four were said to be part of an international drugs ring whose activities had been monitored since late July this year.

-- AAP 2005-11-06

[cdnvic]

The old medieval stuff I like. Say a hungry rat on the sromach, under a tin and a candle put on the tin to heat it up. The rat then eats through the person to get away from the heat !

Or, as it was bonfire night yesterday, hung, drawn and quartered ?

Ok, but this is not ever going to happen. What realisticly do you think should be done?

cv

[FREDPAT]

I dont drink anymore ( gave it up 4years ago ) and I dont smoke and I certainly don`t do drugs ..............But I also don`t know the answer to the following question. How, when and why did World Governments decide drugs are so evil that people can be executed for mere possession ( i.e. not even consumption ) and yet alcohol is accepted by the State ( of World Economies ) to such an extent that it is taxable source of revenue for them ? Who decided and when the fine line is between the social damage from alcohol abuse ( e.g. drunk drivers causing innocent fatalities )compared to other drug abuse ? In other words why has alchohol been " accepted " while in Thailand even Ectasy can in theory earn you a death sentence if its a big enough quantity ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's my take on the death penalty and death for drug smuggling, in particular. On one hand, yes, the laws sometimes appear Draconian, particularly in Asia (but also in the US). Japan is much the same. The main problem I have with the death penalty is in the event that the accused is found not guilty, for whatever reason, you can't "take back" the death penalty. Better to let a 1,000 guilty men go free, rather than kill one innocent man." I wholeheartedly agree with this, particularly if I'm the innocent man.

There are many good arguments that are for or against the death penalty, but I think the one I mentioned above is the most important for AGAINST. Besides, who, anywhere in the world, is in the moral position to decide whether someone lives or dies and for what offenses? Sure, death for murderers seems like a good idea, but again, WHAT IF???? However, if you're completely unforgiving and insist on the death penalty, why then use lethal injection or hanging???? "Why," you may ask "should they be able to die peacefully as if asleep, when your loved ones died horrible, excruciatingly painful deaths?" My answer is, "they shouldn't." Bring back torture. Better yet, and from a taxpayer's point of view, reinstate "chain gangs" and/or hard labor, while reducing sentences and, by extension, the burden on the taxpayer. Throw them in a pit with a pick axe, making big rocks into little rocks, and feed them bread and water after an 18-hour day. But, cut the length of their sentence by half or more. Of course, you could really punish them by taking away their TV priveleges! This, to me, would be a far more effective deterent than death, especially if the offender doesn't fear death. If this is the case, where's the punishment? You could argue that the person who murders without remorse may have a mental state that may actually welcome death, as a person like this could have been tormented their entire lives, for whatever reason, which brought them to this point in their lives where they can commit murder with impunity and no remorse.

Simply put, there are many moral issues (read Universal Laws) related to the use of the death penalty that should preclude the implementation of such, and different cultures will assign different degrees of punishment depending on what laws are applicable. Remember the Nigerian woman who was condemned to death by "stoning" for adultery (the guy was set free), by being buried up to the waist and stoned until dead? Regardless of whether her "act" was deemed morally reprehensible and thus punishable by death, the law by which they live (Sharia law, I believe) dictates that death is an appropriate punishment (although "punishment" in and of itself implies that some sort of atonement for one's sins will ensure that you won't do it again following the administration thereof), and who are we to say differently????

I think the biggest problem with these so-called "Draconian" laws is not that they don't fit in with the "Judeo-Christian morals" that have been rammed down our throats for decades (see "Culture of Fear"), but that they are levied so arbitrarily. Simply put, EVERYONE, regardless of wealth or social position, should be subject to the same laws. I don't know anyone who doesn't know the penalty for drug smuggling in many southeast Asian countries, as well as in Saudi Arabia, is death, but does the punishment really fit the crime???? Japan is much the same in its sentencing, ie, in that it is so arbitrary. For example, I have 3 friends who were busted for drugs in Japan. One guy got 3 years (did 18 months, then deported) for dealing 3 kilos of hashish. Fair enough, but not too harsh, I think. Another mate got knicked for half a gram of hash, spent 3 months in detention, and spent roughly $50,000 on legal fees before he was released and deported. HALF A GRAM OF HASH!!!!!!!!!! To us, this seems a tad bit harsh, but again, that is the law and it is well-known that anything having to do with drugs is harshly punished. The third guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time (a bar when a sting went down), and was asked to VOLUNTARILY provide a urine sample. Almost 2 months later, he was picked up for having a positive pee test, spent 3 months in detention, WITHOUT COUNSEL, and finally deported. THREE MONTHS FOR A POSITIVE PISS TEST!!!!!??????? C'MON!!!! Again, however, who are we to say what is or isn't an appropriate punishment? BUT, when you read things like "Grandfather who murdered grandson by smashing his head against the wall because he used his left hand, rather than his right, when using his chopsticks sentenced to 18 months in prison, suspended for 3 years," it makes you wonder. Another one was "20-year old starves baby to death, stuffing the child in a chest of drawers." When asked why she did it, the young mother admitted, "when I had the baby, it was so cute, but I didn't realize it cried and shat all the time, and this really infringed on my partying schedule, so I killed it." Sentenced to 3 years in prison, suspended for 4 years. If you don't believe me, go to www.japantoday.com, and you'll read many of the same stories.

Just before I left Japan, after 15 years, there was a case involving a marine accused of raping a Japanese woman on the hood of a car outside one of the popular marine hangouts. The evidence was sketchy at best, the "victim's" character was highly questionable, and the defendant pleaded not guilty. Nevertheless, he was found guilty and sentenced to 8 years in prison. When asked what were some of the reasons used to determine sentencing, the judge declared that the defendant "didn't show an appropriate degree of remorse" for his crime. Excuse me, but since when should anyone show remorse for a crime they are pleading not guilty to????? While I don't think 8 years is enough time for rapists, at least let the punishment fit the crime!

Seriously, how can you possibly get more time in jail for a positive pee test than for murder???? Common sense (sorely lacking in both Japan and Thailand) dictates that a sentence for murder would be harsher than for a positive pee test, regardless of what country you're from or what your religious beliefs are.

At the end of the day, the best policy is "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime." It's that simple.

At any rate, I could go on and on, but I've said enough. The alcohol versus drugs argument is better left for another thread.

Anyway, there's my 10 cents' worth.

FREDPAT

[george]

Apparently he had heroin on the boat:

Video:

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411319/624979

[RDN]

The old medieval stuff I like. Say a hungry rat on the sromach, under a tin and a candle put on the tin to heat it up. The rat then eats through the person to get away from the heat !

Or, as it was bonfire night yesterday, hung, drawn and quartered ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, but this is not ever going to happen. What realisticly do you think should be done?

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

25 years in the Bangkok Hilton will do nicely.

[RDN]

... Briton Ian James Newton, 49,...

--AFP 2005-11-05

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

New Zealand man among four arrested for drugs in Thailand...Kerry Graeme Mitchell, 49...

--AP 2005-11-05

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...Briton Ian James Newton, 49,...

--Phuket Gazette 2005-11-05

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...Englishman Ian Newton, 49,...

-- AAP 2005-11-06

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kiwi behind Bangkok prison bars...

A New Zealander has been arrested ... Kerry Graeme Mitchell, 49,  ...

Source: RNZ/One New

At least we're all agreed on his age.

[marquess]

Allow me to offer my dissenting opinion to the death lovers. 

Even if you think they deserve to die, it's not right for the government to put people to death.  To murder a person for any reason makes the government a murderer, and takes away their credibility to say, "Killing is wrong."

And that's only if you think they deserve to die.  A non-violent crime such as this, with an illegal drug that is only arbitrary. 

Tobacco and alcohol have destroyed more lives than all other drugs combined, by a longshot. 

It's also destroyed more innocent lives, through second hand smoke and drunk driving. 

The law is so embedded in people's minds that it brainwashes them into thinking, for example, that cannibis is worse than alcohol.  It takes a person capable of independant thought to rise above this.

What the Thai government is doing, murdering drug dealers, is far worse than what the drug dealers are doing.  Those who disagree with this, please, take a long hard look at what you're thinking, from a different point of view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you! The death penalty is just legalised murder on the part of governments and makes them no better than those they kill.

[adamski69]

NICE ONE,IF GUILTY HOPE THEY GET THE CHOP !!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree! These people will never learn!! There needs to be public ot televised executions to get the point across that drug trafficking carries the death sentence! You can't pussyfoot around this issue, it needs to be stamped on the mind of 'would be' drug smugglers!

If only the UK adopted the same, maybe that would deter all the Yardies' drug mules!

[dantilley]

There are those out there who are willing to debate intelligently. Unfortunately they usually have manners and get drowned out by the empty headed bufoonery that don't. 

cv

He he, I see what you mean.

Certainly more "empty headed bufoonery" here than anything else, that's for sure...

Edited November 6, 2005 by dantilley

[carlthailand]

Our own govt. done a pretty good job smuggling drugs back in the days of the empire, or at least by turning a blind eye to it.

Its a profitable business, always will be whilst it stays illegal, but of course some get caught.

Sod em really, they knew the risks and I'm sure they made plenty of cash during it and if they have any brains they have some of that stashed to help them out of this situation and cover them when they get out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why they have diplomatic pouches. Several countries are involved directly with the trade. Points one finger towards Nth Korea and what abt the CIA blah blah blah

Edited November 6, 2005 by carlthailand

[johnrh]

Allow me to offer my dissenting opinion to the death lovers. 

Even if you think they deserve to die, it's not right for the government to put people to death.  To murder a person for any reason makes the government a murderer, and takes away their credibility to say, "Killing is wrong."

And that's only if you think they deserve to die.  A non-violent crime such as this, with an illegal drug that is only arbitrary. 

Tobacco and alcohol have destroyed more lives than all other drugs combined, by a longshot. 

It's also destroyed more innocent lives, through second hand smoke and drunk driving. 

The law is so embedded in people's minds that it brainwashes them into thinking, for example, that cannibis is worse than alcohol.  It takes a person capable of independant thought to rise above this.

What the Thai government is doing, murdering drug dealers, is far worse than what the drug dealers are doing.  Those who disagree with this, please, take a long hard look at what you're thinking, from a different point of view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you! The death penalty is just legalised murder on the part of governments and makes them no better than those they kill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frodo: "What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature, when he had a chance!"

Gandalf: "Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need............"

Frodo: "............I can't understand you. Do you mean to say that you, and the Elves, have let him live on after all those horrible deeds? Now at any rate he is as bad as an Orc, and just an enemy. He deserves death."

Gandalf: "Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."