Did You Show "Signs" As A Child?

[Jingthing]

http://www.slate.com/id/2303739/

When Do Gay Kids Start "Acting Gay"?

Sometimes when they're toddlers.

In early childhood, in some cases. A hefty pile of research shows that boys as young as 3 years old who break from traditional gender roles have a high likelihood of becoming gay adults. Predictive behaviors include playing with Barbie dolls, shying away from roughhousing, and taking an interest in makeup and women's clothing. (Read the Explainer's take on why boys prefer to play with sticks while girls go for dolls here.) The relationship isn't one-to-one, however, and it's certainly not the case that all boys who love Barbie dolls will later identify as gay. The correlation is much weaker in the other direction: A disproportionate number of boys who don't conform to gender stereotypes turn out to be gay men, but lots of gay men played with G.I. Joe as boys and quarterbacked the high-school football team. Neither does the relationship appear to be as strong among girls. Tomboys aren't as likely to become lesbian adults.

In my case, mixed, I played with with sister's friends when they played with dolls but wasn't exactly into it, not into roughhousing, but no interest at all in makeup/drag.

For a totally hilarious look at this issue in a t.v. show, catch the last show of the current season of Curb Your Enthusiasm!

Some clips --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UsGVCdEJds

also v=3VZKXJ_9Gw0&feature=related

Edited September 14, 2011 by Jingthing

[endure]

The only sign that I showed was a preoccupation with kitchen utensils when I was about 8. A kitchen sink filled with water and a few pots and pans would keep me happy all afternoon. I was quite into rough-housing

Edited September 14, 2011 by endure

[LeCharivari]

I thought there was still confusion about what the "signs" were as adults?

[Jingthing]

I thought there was still confusion about what the "signs" were as adults?

Not this again.

[Jingthing]

There is another aspect of this "showing signs" issue that might seriously muck up making definitive conclusions about the relation between showing signs and later becoming gay. That is that the children often GET THE MESSAGE from the world either explicitly or unconsciously that they are acting in ways that adults don't like to see. So is it the showing signs or the way important people in kid's lives REACT to the signs?

[endure]

I thought there was still confusion about what the "signs" were as adults?

Not this again.

It is preferable to the never-ending self examination that seems to be prevalent in this forum. Most of us just accept the fact that we're gay and get on with our lives without the need to constantly scan the internet for self-justification. Can't you just pop down to Pattayaland Soi 3 and ask for a happy ending?

[Jingthing]

I thought there was still confusion about what the "signs" were as adults?

Not this again.

It is preferable to the never-ending self examination that seems to be prevalent in this forum. Most of us just accept the fact that we're gay and get on with our lives without the need to constantly scan the internet for self-justification. Can't you just pop down to Pattayaland Soi 3 and ask for a happy ending?

Ouch! Or should I say AH! What are you? Some kind of anti-intellectual? The examined life is not worth living? Where did you get from this topic, NOT accepting being gay? Really, dude, if the topic doesn't interest, why the need for such a personal attack? There are plenty of OTHER places to talk about going for a paid wank, yes?

[endure]

Socrates was my best mate.

[endure]

Ouch! Or should I say AH! What are you? Some kind of anti-intellectual? The examined life is not worth living? Where did you get from this topic, NOT accepting being gay? Really, dude, if the topic doesn't interest, why the need for such a personal attack? There are plenty of OTHER places to talk about going for a paid wank, yes?

I'm not quite sure if non-Commonwealth colonials are allowed to say 'wank'. I think you need permission from the nearest British Embassy.

[tombkk]

Ouch! Or should I say AH! What are you? Some kind of anti-intellectual? The examined life is not worth living? Where did you get from this topic, NOT accepting being gay? Really, dude, if the topic doesn't interest, why the need for such a personal attack? There are plenty of OTHER places to talk about going for a paid wank, yes?

I'm not quite sure if non-Commonwealth colonials are allowed to say 'wank'. I think you need permission from the nearest British Embassy.

The Oxford Dictionary (a British dictionary, for those who don't know) say they can:

wank vs. wank (US)

The Webster's (US dictionary, for those who don't know) defines it as a British term though:

wank

OK, I think I'd better go back into lurking and enjoying you two. Where's the popcorn when you need it?

Edited September 16, 2011 by tombkk

[Jingthing]

Well, I did try to start a serious conversation here but it seems yet another gay thread has succumbed to the lowest cummon denominator.

To wit --

'wanke_rs' Callous' is loosely defined by the New England Journal of Wankology as "any light abrasion to the shaft of the penis due to either excessive or angry wanking".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=angry%20wanking

New England. New. Not in England.

You don't bloody own the language. Please cope.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[tombkk]

Well, I did try to start a serious conversation here

You did? You obscured that intention very well but embedding two YouTube videos of a comedy series. Wow, who would have known.

Something called the "New England Journal" can be the "Journal of New England" (as you interpreted the term) or the "New Journal of England". Maybe this is more obvious to non-native English speakers who had to study English than to native English-speakers, though.

But obviously, there is nothing academic (or serious) about the link you posted.

[Jingthing]

Well, I did try to start a serious conversation here

You did? You obscured that intention very well but embedding two YouTube videos of a comedy series. Wow, who would have known.

Something called the "New England Journal" can be the "Journal of New England" (as you interpreted the term) or the "New Journal of England". Maybe this is more obvious to non-native English speakers who had to study English than to native English-speakers, though.

But obviously, there is nothing academic (or serious) about the link you posted.

New England is a region in the USA.

Nothing academic in the Slate link? Dude, you didn't bother reading it.

It quotes Richard Green the author of this important ACADEMIC study --

The Sissy Boy Syndrome: The Development of Homosexuality (The Institution for Social and Policy St) see Amazon.com

Look, this isn't a big deal to me that this thread is a dud. MOST of the threads I start are duds, yet some take hold. I thought people MIGHT want to talk about the topic of SIGNS in their own childhood or more generally. But if they don't, they don't. No biggie.

I ALSO thought it was worthwhile posting the Curb Your Enthusiam clips because I think they're totally hilarious and I'm sure some others do too, as that show is one of the most critically acclaimed shows in US television history.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[endure]

I can see that I'm going to have to emulate George and put a big red JOKE at the beginning of some of my posts

[Ijustwannateach]

How about this one?

http://www.theonion.com/video/how-to-find-a-masculine-halloween-costume-for-your,14378/

I hope I don't encourage any self-examination, discussion, or introspection with this video....

(PS, I would hope any viewers could figure this out, but the website is a SATIRE news website. Take it seriously at your own risk).

[endure]

I always do my self-examinations in private. I've found that you can get in serious trouble if you self-examine in public

[Jingthing]

Thanks for the funny Onion video. So we're back on topic?

So here's the checklist --

1. Playing with Barbie dolls

2. Shying away from roughhousing

3. Taking an interest in makeup and women's clothing.

One thing they didn't mention in the article. Maybe you have to read the book. Interest in ... foreign objects.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[endure]

Thanks for the funny Onion video. So we're back on topic?

So here's the checklist --

1. Playing with Barbie dolls

2. Shying away from roughhousing

3. Taking an interest in makeup and women's clothing.

One thing they didn't mention in the article. Maybe you have to read the book. Interest in ... foreign objects.

None of them apply to me. Perhaps I'm not gay at all

The boyfriend isn't going to be best pleased.

[Jingthing]

None of them apply to me. Perhaps I'm not gay at all

The boyfriend isn't going to be best pleased.

Nope. You're stuck being gay.

The (total dreamboat) quarterback of my high school football team was openly bisexual, which was pretty brave for the time. He would say things like, you've got to admit both boys and girls are sexy and what could anyone do, he was the quarterback?

A disproportionate number of boys who don't conform to gender stereotypes turn out to be gay men, but lots of gay men played with G.I. Joe as boys and quarterbacked the high-school football team.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ijustwannateach]

I had a vicarious interest in the theater and in musicals as early as junior high school, which I understand to be something of a 'sign'... Also I was only student in my high school cohort to make it to French 2 and 3, which is nearly always a sign.... but nothing I remember from a time so young that the things on that list would be likely. Toys when I was elementary age were robot-constructo things, electronic games, science kits, puzzles, tools for performing magic tricks, and so forth.

[tombkk]

I had a vicarious interest in the theater and in musicals as early as junior high school, which I understand to be something of a 'sign'... Also I was only student in my high school cohort to make it to French 2 and 3, which is nearly always a sign.... but nothing I remember from a time so young that the things on that list would be likely. Toys when I was elementary age were robot-constructo things, electronic games, science kits, puzzles, tools for performing magic tricks, and so forth.

I know many straight people who like theater and musicals, and also many straight actors. I know many straight people who speak a number of languages. I don't think there is a tell-take sign here.

I had dolls, but they were males, not barbie. I never fancied girls. Mostly, I played with toy cars though.

And I grew up with electronic stuff, got into computing and even studied physics and maths.

Statistics don't apply to everyone, I guess.

[Jingthing]

Statistics don't apply to everyone, I guess.

Not sure what you mean as nothing you said refutes the statistical assertions in the article in any way.

My reading of the article indicates they aren't saying at all that MOST gay adults showed "signs" as children! What they were asserting, which makes sense of course, is that of children who DO show signs, a statistically disproportionate percentage of THAT group do grow up to be gay adults. As in higher probability, not always.

One of the signs, avoiding roughhousing, is more interesting to me. Because if some kids are avoiding that, it implies they are more interested in doing something else. But the article at least doesn't get into the details of that. For example such activities as reading, doing art, theater, etc.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Well, I enjoyed roughhousing, but I did get upset if I broke a nail.

[Jingthing]

Well, I enjoyed roughhousing, but I did get upset if I broke a nail.

Probably what put me off was the custom in my neighborhood to pin you down and fart in your face. It may sound charming, but really, I preferred reading a William Burroughs novel in front of the air conditioner.

Not to mention the practice of hanging the weaker boys to tree limbs by the backs of their jockey shorts. Boys are animals!

Edited September 17, 2011 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

.... Also I was only student in my high school cohort to make it to French 2 and 3, which is nearly always a sign....

......I know many straight people who speak a number of languages. I don't think there is a tell-take sign here.

.....

I had no idea what IJWT was talking about with the "French 2 and 3", but if you're right and speaking a foreign language is "nearly always a sign" in the US it's one of the most bizarre things I've read here (and that's saying something!).

[Jingthing]

Yeah I'm also not really feeling the foreign language thing (excepting Greek?) as an early gay sign. Being a young thespian? Yes, I think so.

Keep the basic concept in mind here.

Boys who wears dresses and play with Barbie dolls --

evidence does show they are more likely to grow up to be gay than those that don't.

So, it also means there are boys behaving like that who don't grow up to be gay and also of course boys showing no "gay signs" who do grow up to be gay.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Jingthing

[endure]

when I was a young teeny one of my daydreams was that I could speak all the languages in the world so that I could speak to anyone I happened to meet. It's only 50 years later that I've just realised what a slapper that makes me

[isanbirder]

Yeah I'm also not really feeling the foreign language thing (excepting Greek?) as an early gay sign. Being a young thespian? Yes, I think so.

Keep the basic concept in mind here.

Boys who wears dresses and play with Barbie dolls --

evidence does show they are more likely to grow up to be gay than those that don't.

So, it also means there are boys behaving like that who don't grow up to be gay and also of course boys showing no "gay signs" who do grow up to be gay.

Chinese boys were traditionally brought up as girls, wearing girls' clothes, to a certain age in order to avert 'bad luck'. One friend of mine who was brought up this way did turn out gay... but subsequently he got married for family reasons, and has two sons of whom he is inordinately proud.

[Jingthing]

Chinese boys were traditionally brought up as girls, wearing girls' clothes, to a certain age in order to avert 'bad luck'. One friend of mine who was brought up this way did turn out gay... but subsequently he got married for family reasons, and has two sons of whom he is inordinately proud.

Huh? What do you mean? All Chinese boys or Chinese boys of a certain class, subgroup? I don't see this as very relevant to this topic. If kids are being forced to dress a certain way as a normal societal pattern, it doesn't come from what they feel like doing themselves. Nothing like a boy growing up who decides on his own accord to raid his Mama's makeup drawer. Of course there are deviant cases. I remember a kid growing up who it was clear had an insane mother, who couldn't accept she had a boy instead of a girl, and made the kid wear girl's clothes to school. You could tell he was deeply suffering and not into it.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

when I was a young teeny one of my daydreams was that I could speak all the languages in the world so that I could speak to anyone I happened to meet. It's only 50 years later that I've just realised what a slapper that makes me

You may be interested then in the Sarah Palin was a slut thread.

On second thought about the languages theory, has anyone else noticed that Esperanto speakers (that strange failed universal language cult) tend to be gay at higher than average expectations?

Probably an academic question as it wouldn't surprise me if most people haven't even met one Esparantophone (sic).

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jingthing