Highway Police To File Lawsuit Against Thai Land Transport Federation

[housepainter]

Only because they couldn't get any police to investigate it!

So .................. let's be clear: they are accussed of corruption. That is extortion. Their response is to 'sue' for another 50m baht, expecting an out of court settlement.

More money for nothing.

Sounds about right.

[theoldgit]

Whilst I voted yes, I have not really bribed an officer but I have been the victim of extortion, I can recall three occasions where I have been flagged down for a non violation, rather than argue the case at the Police Bank my girlfriend has paid in the region of 100 Baht.

I think the "officers" set the figure they will accept so as to make it not worth while the victim taking time to argue the case.

Do you mind to give us the details of the "extortion" ?

When I say I was flagged down for a non-violation, I meant I was flagged down for a non-violation, in asking for money to save going to the police station that's extortion in my book.

[newermonkey]

Does anyone think a truck driver will stand up in court and testify against the brown uniformed mobsters... NO WAY.. they don't have a witness protection scheme here.

[Chopperboy]

When should people start think about consequences here. Overloading the truck gives much higher maintenance costs on the equipment. The overloaded trucks destroys the roads, for the public's annoyance, and giving the government unexpected maintenance costs on the roads. Its a win-win for all parts in the long run to start to follow the rules. Increased safety as well, as an overloaded truck will have much longer braking distance..

It's not just overloaded trucks the destroy the roads. Up here in the boonies we have a lovely new recently widened road. It's been finished just over one year. It's literally falling apart as the new sections have no hardcore or base aggregate. Simply tarmac on soil. Imagine how long that lasts in rainy season. It's a very dangerous road now with the outside lanes are unusable. I bet the contractor on that job got a nice new pickup and a few rai of land somewhere.

If you wonder why they build roads like that, its because they are following the US army 1960s manual for road building. Its not intended for modern traffic volumes or to last a long time.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Chopperboy

[JurgenG]

Whilst I voted yes, I have not really bribed an officer but I have been the victim of extortion, I can recall three occasions where I have been flagged down for a non violation, rather than argue the case at the Police Bank my girlfriend has paid in the region of 100 Baht.

I think the "officers" set the figure they will accept so as to make it not worth while the victim taking time to argue the case.

Do you mind to give us the details of the "extortion" ?

When I say I was flagged down for a non-violation, I meant I was flagged down for a non-violation, in asking for money to save going to the police station that's extortion in my book.

Maybe a misunderstanding on my side, I'm not a native english speaker.

What do you call a non-violation ? You didn't do anything, you had your diving lincense, insurance ... but they still wanted to take you to the police station ?

Edited September 16, 2011 by JurgenG

[blacksuitdandruff]

sounds like they're out of options when it comes down to this move...now only if the crack defendant lawyers could find witnesses to prove it.

[theoldgit]

Maybe a misunderstanding on my side, I'm not a native english speaker.

What do you call a non-violation ? You didn't do anything, you had your diving lincense, insurance ... but they still wanted to take you to the police station ?

I call it a non-violation when no violation occurred, and no I didn't break any laws. I didn't say they wanted to take me to the police station, I said the officer said I could pay him or argue my case at the police station.

In answer to your other remark, before you edited it, three times in five years of driving, yes, maybe I am unlucky.

When did we actually meet?

Edited September 16, 2011 by theoldgit

[housepainter]

They are a useless bunch of ill equipped un-educated thugs.

When they are not mudering the innocent, they are fitting up the innocent, killing children along with their mothers and shooting first because they can't be bothered to ask any questions.

Smoking and drinking on duty, running prostitution and gambling dens, they are a blight on the land.

Personally, I have been subject to extortion several times. It is not bribery it is extortion. They stop you up country for no reason. Claim you are speeding even when you re-join the highway from a gas station and are accelerating under 80 kph.

I refuse to pay.

They do cave in but then I've not met the mindless thugs that seem to make the headlines over drunken shootings of tourists or the rape of single women etc etc.

They are a disgrace. An abomination.

We all have experienced it.

There has yet to be a flood of emails stating how kind a Thai policeman is.

Needles and hay stacks.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Yeh right I have had to pay off one guy only 100baht for driving in the right hand lane.

Same here!!! In Bangkok we crossed a line about 1 metre too early upon turning right and got pulled over - 100 baht averted the need to consficate my wife's ID card. Another time, coming back from Koh Chang we were accused of speeding (we probably were in all honesty) - again that magic Neung roi baht piece of paper did the trick.

Finally, we were pulled over for general checks 500 metres from our school and because we had a brand new car with blackened windows they asked my wife to show them the registration/log book. They peered into the car and spotted me and there was a nod between them to signal that they should maybe let us go as they could see that I (a farang) was looking less than happy about supplying them with their 'morning coffee' money!!!!

[Billmont]

My wife and I have been caught a few times and had to pay about THB 100 or sometimes 200. Perhaps we were speeding because it is difficult to keep to 80kph and I would not argue if they said that we were doing 90kmh. Anyway I do not consider this to be a problem and I accept this small payment as much better than the UK with points etc and I do not really consider it as a shakedown. However just a couple of weeks ago we were leaving Bangkok on the tollway and as we passed through the Toll we noticed about 30 or more police. One pointed for us to pull over. My sister-in-law was driving and a very cautious driver and up to this point I was going to tell her to get a move on as her slow driving can somtimes get to me. I mention this as we were not doing over 80kph. The Policeman noticed that we had a Korat number plate which I believe was the reason we were pulled over. The Policeman smelt of alcohol and demanded THB 1000 for speeding. A discussion followed between the Policeman my wife and sister-in-law. The Policeman was saying either pay up or come back down to Bangkok tomorrow for your licence and to pay the fine. He knew that it would cost us about THB2000 in fuel, apart from a wasted day to return so he had us over a barrel. Eventually we settled at THB500, that that was a shakedown as we were definately not speeding. This is the first time that I had experienced such "road robbery" especially when dealing with a Policeman that had been drinking, not a pleasant experience and certainly I was not going to argue incase the gun came out!

[MAJIC]

Brits should member that anyone bribing a public official anywhere in the world is liable for upto 10 years in jail in the UK. If I go back then I will be facing life.

It would be a very foolish person who resorted to Bribery in the UK,

so from your Post,it would seem you have done it many times!

And your anecdotal evidence is..................?

[MAJIC]

Having seen 3 overturned lorries laden with double high loads of Sugar cane,

It would seem highly unlikely, that they would have gone through a weigh Bridge.

[ingvar]

Has any1 in TV gone the full way up to court with a supposed traffic rule violation?

My suspicion is that even if you did violate the traffic rule, the evidence by BIB is gathered in such a way it will not stand up in court.

Of course going to court is a ridiculous suggestion because of the costs and time involved (years upon years and 100,000 Bath later in court fees you are finally in court).

I have been stopped and paid the usual "passage" fee many times, but one time just to see what happens I just sat in my car and refused to acknowledge any wrongdoing (I actually did speed quiet significantly). The officer got more and more agitated and I asked him "show me your evidence" upon which he presented a notebook with some very difficult to read license plate number and pointed to my number, with a time note and speed indication of 140 km/h. I said "thats not right, you must have made a mistake?" . At that point he started to have a long agitated monolog with himself in which the word "farang" appeared repeatedly. I said "OK! OK! I did it!". The officer looked at me and asked "you admit?" "yes" OK he said you can go and waved me off"

Who said the BIB don't have any humor !.

Anyway the point is, the kind of evidence presented would not stand up in any court I think?

[ronthai]

I guess all the people whom voted NO in the poll, do not ever drive here in Thailand or have been here just a few weeks and got lucky.

[Chopperboy]

Has any1 in TV gone the full way up to court with a supposed traffic rule violation?

These things are all rubber stamped, depending on the offense the fine could be aprox 7,000 for drunk driving, 6,000 no license etc.

[MAJIC]

Maybe the motorists of Thailand should launch a class action against the police for decades of roadside shakedowns?

I'm 35, British, been here 4 years or so. An older (65) British friend was telling me about his youth in Manchester, where the police would regularly be bribable, and one would go out driving illegally for some reason (license, lights, whatever) knowing that if you were caught, you could hand over a fiver or something and be on your way.

Then the police wages were raised. Suddenly it wasn't worth the coppers' risking their jobs over such a payment, and the regime changed. The youth were pretty pissed off that their easy life was changed and they suddenly found themselves having to obey the law more, or of course hiding their violations better. My friend was pretty emphatic about it changing the way things worked forever.

Now traffic cameras automate the whole process in England, the police corruption in England is just at a higher level. It is a systematic corruption that goes hand in hand with other government agencies. It is to generate money for the state for the high level public workers' pensions and expenses. The UK police get their cut.

The low level officers are generally clean especially outside London, but there is a systematic corruption especially the "overtime and sick payments". Growing numbers of UK police have second jobs. Police are enforcers for the state, the police will deny all this of course, they are master liars, well UNTIL the newspapers use the freedom of information act to get the real behaviour out in the open.

in Australia, the epitome of the nanny state, your car can be taken by the police if you are caught speeding and of course they will sell them on to their mates .

But in Thailand the low level cops are "bribable" (good word) , they always seem to live in good houses in Thailand on new estates.

Oh my friend you know absolutely nothing about the Australian police. Best if you keep quiet or at least check your facts 1st. You said nothing but cow manure.

Yes.

And judging by the ridiculous codswollop,he has written about the UK Police,he has an Axe to grind,and I doubt he has any such experience in either Countries,add some Pig Manure as well.

[OldeBellPedr]

Maybe the motorists of Thailand should launch a class action against the police for decades of roadside shakedowns?

I'm 35, British, been here 4 years or so. An older (65) British friend was telling me about his youth in Manchester, where the police would regularly be bribable, and one would go out driving illegally for some reason (license, lights, whatever) knowing that if you were caught, you could hand over a fiver or something and be on your way.

Then the police wages were raised. Suddenly it wasn't worth the coppers' risking their jobs over such a payment, and the regime changed. The youth were pretty pissed off that their easy life was changed and they suddenly found themselves having to obey the law more, or of course hiding their violations better. My friend was pretty emphatic about it changing the way things worked forever.

Times can change. Given time. And an incentive to change.

so what are you saying? You want a sytstem of speed cameras on every street trapping you for beng 5mph over the speed limit, being breathalysed for having 2 pints of beer, points on your licence for not wearing a seat beat/ crash helmet?

Some of you guys seem to want to recreate the restrictive societies we came here to get away from! Surely a couple of hundred baht to the Police Benevolent Fund is better than heavy official fines and driving bans. N'est Pas?

[drdoom6996]

They demand money from everybody else. Why not these guys. The only thing special about them is they got a lawyer. If they need someone to testify, I can and my 17 year old daughter was with me, no hearsay.

[drdoom6996]

Maybe the motorists of Thailand should launch a class action against the police for decades of roadside shakedowns?

I'm 35, British, been here 4 years or so. An older (65) British friend was telling me about his youth in Manchester, where the police would regularly be bribable, and one would go out driving illegally for some reason (license, lights, whatever) knowing that if you were caught, you could hand over a fiver or something and be on your way.

Then the police wages were raised. Suddenly it wasn't worth the coppers' risking their jobs over such a payment, and the regime changed. The youth were pretty pissed off that their easy life was changed and they suddenly found themselves having to obey the law more, or of course hiding their violations better. My friend was pretty emphatic about it changing the way things worked forever.

Times can change. Given time. And an incentive to change.

so what are you saying? You want a sytstem of speed cameras on every street trapping you for beng 5mph over the speed limit, being breathalysed for having 2 pints of beer, points on your licence for not wearing a seat beat/ crash helmet?

Some of you guys seem to want to recreate the restrictive societies we came here to get away from! Surely a couple of hundred baht to the Police Benevolent Fund is better than heavy official fines and driving bans. N'est Pas?

NO IT IS NOT IT IS STEALING DUE TO INTIMIDATION. WAKE UP.

[thaimite]

I would love to offer apoliceman in the UK 100 baht to let me off for some motoring misdemeanour.

I can imagiine the court when this policeman stood up and told everybody I had tried to bribe him with 2 quid.

If they believed him I could then reasonably plead insanity!!

[drdoom6996]

Once (many years ago) when my wife was driving she was sytopped for driving in the right hand lane.

When asked for her license she said she did not have one, and gave the cop 20 baht instead.

When I questioned her as to why she did not show her license, she said that "if she had given the guy the license , then it would have cost her 100 baht to get it back!!"

We used to have several trucks and always mde sure our drivers had a wad of 20 Baht notes to give as "Tea Money" if stopped.

Amazingly the Miracle of Thailand.

[falang3000]

My favorite was when I was pulled into one of the "drunk traps" after going to a carnival with the family. I had not had a drink in several days (I know, hard to believe). According to their "breatha-lie-zer" I think I was legally dead. Blew a 0.44 or something. At least make it realistic.

[Chopperboy]

I would love to offer apoliceman in the UK 100 baht to let me off for some motoring misdemeanour.

I can imagiine the court when this policeman stood up and told everybody I had tried to bribe him with 2 quid.

If they believed him I could then reasonably plead insanity!!

There was a story a while back that a Thai living in the UK tried to offer a bribe to a UK police office for a driving offense and received a prison sentence.

Mind, I used hang out in London with a Thai kid who had a diplomatic merc. I sometimes drove it for him because he had no license and the car had no tax either. It once had a puncture on the road to Gatwick and the cops stopped and changed the tyre for him!

Edited September 16, 2011 by Chopperboy

[koto]

Don't take kickbacks or bribes my arse. I can assure you 100% they do. I have been pulled over 1/2 dozen times for nothing and booked. Got the option if you want a receipt (infringement notice) then you pay 200 baht fine if you not want receipt then 100 baht fine. Get stopped at those highgway roadblocks and they see you are farang so the dollar signs light up and they ask you to pull to the side of the road. We know where they all are now between Chiangmai and Nakon Sawan so when we get close I change driving with the wife proceed through the stops and no shakedown.

My experience in BKK has been completely the opposite. I can honestly say I've driven through 100s of checkpoints and have never been stopped. I've only stopped when I have genuinely done something wrong (unfortunately right in front of a cop or a group of cops) and then I paid my bribe and was off. But I've never been stopped or hassled for nothing.

Also

I see many people driving in a way that they should be getting tickets daily, Thai and Farang, to many people become to relaxed over here and "never" follow the rules, I'm sure most that pay many bribe/fines, would have much bigger problems where they came from, over here many forget common sense driving, sometimes get caught with their shorts down, now and again one might need to donate for the cause but if it is every week, maybe driving school.

[peecee]

Brits should member that anyone bribing a public official anywhere in the world is liable for upto 10 years in jail in the UK. If I go back then I will be facing life.

Sorry you can't come back, but the nick's are all full!

[Udox]

I have never been given the option of paying a 'bribe'

On the occasions I have been stopped - my 'alleged offence' is told to me and then the amount I must pay to the officer.

I have never offered cash as an incentive for a reduced amount to pay - so cannot be called a bribe.

If guilty then its a bona-fida fine - and I would pay up

If not guilty - its extortion - and whether you pay is your decision. I would argue until I thought it was going to be detrimental to the situation, but usually works if you stand your ground (and really didn't do it)

Getting tired of the people putting it down to the low salaries of the police - so need supplementing. Did they have their arm twisted to become a policeman or was it by choice?

Its well known that a career in the police has many 'fringe benefits' and I have heard that the more 'profitable' postings (Pattaya, Phuket etc) are seen as financial heaven !

[a99az]

A bit like killing the goose that lade the golden egg.

[OzMick]

There is a common line of reasoning on this thread that the corruption exhibited by police is acceptable because it is cheap. It is NOT cheap for Thais. How would you feel if a bobby or a CHiP pulled you over and demanded a hundred quid/$100 payment for a mythical speeding offence? Outrage? But here it's OK because it's cheap?

Nor is it likely to decrease if the BIB were paid more. All that would happen is the police station car-park would see flasher vehicles, because police here have no fear of being caught. And until such fear is instilled, they will never stop.

Why has the old "fiver in a licence" trick disappeared? Because anti-corruption police started catching, charging, firing and jailing corrupt officers. If there is an Internal Affairs dept of the BIB, I have never heard of it. What would happen if every time we were stopped, a mobile phone came out and the proceedings were videoed?

Police in Oz states have different laws. In some states it is possible to have your car confiscated for serious repeat vehicle offences, but AFAIK notfor speeding.

Off topic a bit: several years back a Brit was taking the law (that the owner of a vehicle caught on a speed camera was liable if he did not nominate the driver) to the EU court of justice because it was forcing him to give evidence. Does anybody know how that panned out?

[kropotkin]

Silly poll question.

I have never bribed in my life, no.

But the police have extorted money from me, yes.

So my answer is ??????

[janverbeem]

Why has the old "fiver in a licence" trick disappeared? Because anti-corruption police started catching, charging, firing and jailing corrupt officers. If there is an Internal Affairs dept of the BIB, I have never heard of it. What would happen if every time we were stopped, a mobile phone came out and the proceedings were videoed?

They started with the same actions in Thailand about 10 years ago.It was all over the tv stations at that time with highway police officers caught on hidden camera's.

As usual in Thailand it lasted about 2 weeks.