kerryk Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Correct, and one of the interesting things about the US view of history is that it is most certainly white man's Victors' history. I was amused and bemused to see people lauding the election of Barack Obama as some kind of cathartic victory in relation to race relations. I think even he tried to play that aspect of his victory down. He was abandoned by his African father ( for whatever reason, not mine to judge ) and brought up by his white mother, blah blah blah and once again it's not mine to judge. What tickles me are Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century. While the Brits were " colonising " what were the Americans doing? Having a tea party in the Wild West? Offering balloons and party hats to the Native Americans? Or going to war against the long standing population and land grabbing not only from the Native Americans but from the Mexicans too. Hypocrites. The US will turn full circle when a Native American becomes President. Questions... So do Native Americans think that world history isn't the way the rest of Americans (not all of whom are White Men) do? Or are you specifically referring to US history? If so, do they think they won? Or do they believe they their lands weren't taken and their cultures all but destroyed as "white man victor's history" does indeed tell us happened? How does Obama's family history relate to "white mans victor's history"? How often do you hear Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century? And why do these alleged Yanks (or you) confine it to the 19th century? Does what the Americans did change anything about what the British did? Or are we not supposed to talk about anyone else's wrongdoings if we have some of our own? (if so, the Brits will have to take back a LOT of discussion -- much of it accurate and some not -- of US evils). Why the quotes around "colonizing" -- was it not really that? I won't even get into the fallacy of the full circle bit. SC Cowboy did a better job than I could anyway even if I am inclined to add some things to it... One more question: what's that on your shoulder? Why don't you start a thread about Brits and Americans? Why are you trying to derail this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Correct, and one of the interesting things about the US view of history is that it is most certainly white man's Victors' history. I was amused and bemused to see people lauding the election of Barack Obama as some kind of cathartic victory in relation to race relations. I think even he tried to play that aspect of his victory down. He was abandoned by his African father ( for whatever reason, not mine to judge ) and brought up by his white mother, blah blah blah and once again it's not mine to judge. What tickles me are Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century. While the Brits were " colonising " what were the Americans doing? Having a tea party in the Wild West? Offering balloons and party hats to the Native Americans? Or going to war against the long standing population and land grabbing not only from the Native Americans but from the Mexicans too. Hypocrites. The US will turn full circle when a Native American becomes President. Is Barack Obama black? Does that matter? I don't think it really matters where your ancestors of great antiquity were born. Since aboriginal americans make up a relatively small proportion of the total population of american citizens, one would not expect to see more than the very occasional president from that minority. Of course, we could also argue that aborigines are hampered by legislation that encourages idleness amongst the tribes, and reliance on tribal income, as well as a culture which differs from the mainstream US culture of entrepreneurship and personal ambition. Do the tribal cultures of the aboriginal americans encourage learning about foreign countries? Or is such learning foisted on them through their participation in main-stream education? Anyway, I shouldn't go too hard on the US for the way they treated the abos. We've all of us had to fight for lebensraum at some stage in our history, and the Americans have been doing it since they were brits. SC I totally agree with every word you have written there.....you are 100% correct. I am only pointing the irony of colonials complaining about colonization. I wasn't really arguing, other than for the sake of it. The only point I was trying to correct or contradict was the implication that it was necessary for an aboriginal american to become president to demonstrate that the US 'had come full circle;, which I interpreted to mean 'was free of racial prejudice and bias'. Inevitably, regardless of the openness and equality of society, sub-groups which have privileges that discourage them from working, and their own culture which discourages participation in mainstream economic life, will always be vulnerable to disadvantage. And due to the small number of aboriginals in comparison to americans of immigrant stock, we would expect only a fairly small proportion of American presidents to be from the indigenous tribes. I was really just reminding you, and all of us in general, to be tolerant of the vagaries of others... SC I'm not arguing with you, I'm agreeing with you SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Correct, and one of the interesting things about the US view of history is that it is most certainly white man's Victors' history. I was amused and bemused to see people lauding the election of Barack Obama as some kind of cathartic victory in relation to race relations. I think even he tried to play that aspect of his victory down. He was abandoned by his African father ( for whatever reason, not mine to judge ) and brought up by his white mother, blah blah blah and once again it's not mine to judge. What tickles me are Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century. While the Brits were " colonising " what were the Americans doing? Having a tea party in the Wild West? Offering balloons and party hats to the Native Americans? Or going to war against the long standing population and land grabbing not only from the Native Americans but from the Mexicans too. Hypocrites. The US will turn full circle when a Native American becomes President. Questions... So do Native Americans think that world history isn't the way the rest of Americans (not all of whom are White Men) do? Or are you specifically referring to US history? If so, do they think they won? Or do they believe they their lands weren't taken and their cultures all but destroyed as "white man victor's history" does indeed tell us happened? How does Obama's family history relate to "white mans victor's history"? How often do you hear Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century? And why do these alleged Yanks (or you) confine it to the 19th century? Does what the Americans did change anything about what the British did? Or are we not supposed to talk about anyone else's wrongdoings if we have some of our own? (if so, the Brits will have to take back a LOT of discussion -- much of it accurate and some not -- of US evils). Why the quotes around "colonizing" -- was it not really that? I won't even get into the fallacy of the full circle bit. SC Cowboy did a better job than I could anyway even if I am inclined to add some things to it... One more question: what's that on your shoulder? Why don't you start a thread about Brits and Americans? Why are you trying to derail this thread? I don't have anything particular to say about the topic you suggest. I'm not trying to derail anything. I'm responding to a post on this thread. Just as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Correct, and one of the interesting things about the US view of history is that it is most certainly white man's Victors' history. I was amused and bemused to see people lauding the election of Barack Obama as some kind of cathartic victory in relation to race relations. I think even he tried to play that aspect of his victory down. He was abandoned by his African father ( for whatever reason, not mine to judge ) and brought up by his white mother, blah blah blah and once again it's not mine to judge. What tickles me are Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century. While the Brits were " colonising " what were the Americans doing? Having a tea party in the Wild West? Offering balloons and party hats to the Native Americans? Or going to war against the long standing population and land grabbing not only from the Native Americans but from the Mexicans too. Hypocrites. The US will turn full circle when a Native American becomes President. Questions... So do Native Americans think that world history isn't the way the rest of Americans (not all of whom are White Men) do? Or are you specifically referring to US history? If so, do they think they won? Or do they believe they their lands weren't taken and their cultures all but destroyed as "white man victor's history" does indeed tell us happened? How does Obama's family history relate to "white mans victor's history"? How often do you hear Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century? And why do these alleged Yanks (or you) confine it to the 19th century? Does what the Americans did change anything about what the British did? Or are we not supposed to talk about anyone else's wrongdoings if we have some of our own? (if so, the Brits will have to take back a LOT of discussion -- much of it accurate and some not -- of US evils). Why the quotes around "colonizing" -- was it not really that? I won't even get into the fallacy of the full circle bit. SC Cowboy did a better job than I could anyway even if I am inclined to add some things to it... One more question: what's that on your shoulder? Why don't you start a thread about Brits and Americans? Why are you trying to derail this thread? OK, so let's get back on thread. Education comes from multiple sources, we rely upon our schools to put fundamental knowledge into our children, then after that we hope to use some parental input etc. Probably now for most of us our education comes from the mainstream media. So if we accept that the level of education in Thailand is limited due to the developing nature of the country, how reliable are the media outlets in educating the people of Thailand?. Is there a Thai language history channel? Or National Geographic equivalent? and how about news output? Is it highly censored? ( I know some internet output is, and I know that subject that cannot be named is ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kananga Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Correct, and one of the interesting things about the US view of history is that it is most certainly white man's Victors' history. I was amused and bemused to see people lauding the election of Barack Obama as some kind of cathartic victory in relation to race relations. I think even he tried to play that aspect of his victory down. He was abandoned by his African father ( for whatever reason, not mine to judge ) and brought up by his white mother, blah blah blah and once again it's not mine to judge. What tickles me are Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century. While the Brits were " colonising " what were the Americans doing? Having a tea party in the Wild West? Offering balloons and party hats to the Native Americans? Or going to war against the long standing population and land grabbing not only from the Native Americans but from the Mexicans too. Hypocrites. The US will turn full circle when a Native American becomes President. Questions... So do Native Americans think that world history isn't the way the rest of Americans (not all of whom are White Men) do? Or are you specifically referring to US history? If so, do they think they won? Or do they believe they their lands weren't taken and their cultures all but destroyed as "white man victor's history" does indeed tell us happened? How does Obama's family history relate to "white mans victor's history"? How often do you hear Americans banging on about British Imperialism in the 19th century? And why do these alleged Yanks (or you) confine it to the 19th century? Does what the Americans did change anything about what the British did? Or are we not supposed to talk about anyone else's wrongdoings if we have some of our own? (if so, the Brits will have to take back a LOT of discussion -- much of it accurate and some not -- of US evils). Why the quotes around "colonizing" -- was it not really that? I won't even get into the fallacy of the full circle bit. SC Cowboy did a better job than I could anyway even if I am inclined to add some things to it... One more question: what's that on your shoulder? Why don't you start a thread about Brits and Americans? Why are you trying to derail this thread? OK, so let's get back on thread. Education comes from multiple sources, we rely upon our schools to put fundamental knowledge into our children, then after that we hope to use some parental input etc. Probably now for most of us our education comes from the mainstream media. So if we accept that the level of education in Thailand is limited due to the developing nature of the country, how reliable are the media outlets in educating the people of Thailand?. Is there a Thai language history channel? Or National Geographic equivalent? and how about news output? Is it highly censored? ( I know some internet output is, and I know that subject that cannot be named is ). No Thai language history channel, or geographic channel, although English language ones are shown here. Perhaps a greater basic level of English proficiency from schooling would help here, but I have been told that's not necessary by another poster who didn't really have any alternatives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazygourmet Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 "An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't."__ Anatole France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 No Thai language history channel, or geographic channel, although English language ones are shown here... The History Channel and National Geographic Channel are both available in Thai. Oh, but that's white man victor's stuff... Personally most of my education does NOT come from the mainstream media (as described by the poster who posited such, ie TV shows). I read. And more to the point, I observe the world and all that I can found out about it (or care to -- which is a fair amount) and think (as best as I'm able)...which brings us back to critical/analytic thought and how even all informed Thais (educational experts, scholars etc) will tell you is generally NOT a component of Thai education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong38 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 A big part of education in the West is critical thinking. You can learn all the non creative things that require only rote memorization but without questioning things you can't learn critical thinking. It is also a big part of what makes things interesting. If I couldn't have disagreed with my professors I would not have studied half as hard. There are so many things that a Thai person can't question that non questioning becomes part and parcel of the education process. This is especially true in history as is evidenced by the lack of knowledge of the Franco Thai war of 1940 and later WW II and Vietnam. You have to be able to admit your country was wrong. I am an American and fought in Vietnam and I have no trouble admitting my country and I were wrong. Without the ability to criticize my country I would not be much of a scholar. Excellently put, spot on/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 ... One more question: what's that on your shoulder? Its a parrot. To keep the monkey away. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) ... One more question: what's that on your shoulder? Its a parrot. To keep the monkey away. SC Excellent Edited September 22, 2011 by theblether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I like the history channel however I don't remember seeing my kids or anyone's rush home to watch it. The Japanese education system seems driven by fear. Thais won an international welding competition last year and my GF tells me Thai welders are much sought after in the steel fabrication business. She says it is because they have a steady hand and patience more than welders from other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo9 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Maybe they should just piss it up against the wall?? Oh no, the farangs do that in Thailand already......... All kidding aside though, that's a good point you raised there. I'm a bit amazed that there are not more cases of food poisoning etc The sewerage systems are rudimentary to say the least, and the amount of street food that is consumed is high. So sticking to topic to some extent, are the Thais taught food hygiene to any extent? are they taught well? or is it non-existent? Edited September 22, 2011 by theblether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Maybe they should just piss it up against the wall?? Oh no, the farangs do that in Thailand already......... All kidding aside though, that's a good point you raised there. I'm a bit amazed that there are not more cases of food poisoning etc The sewerage systems are rudimentary to say the least, and the amount of street food that is consumed is high. So sticking to topic to some extent, are the Thais taught food hygiene to any extent? are they taught well? or is it non-existent? Everywhere I've been in Asia, staff absenteeism through 'food poisoning' has been much higher than I experienced in the UK; whenever I was personally afflicted, it was normally accompanied by a throbbing head and pains in the wallet SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo9 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 my girlfriends little boy is 3 year old walks out the front door and pisses everywhere... getting <deleted> tired of it and telling her oh but guess what he is sick again today.. som num na Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Good example of lack of education. Typical urine is sterile and does not cause disease. Maybe Thais know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Maybe they should just piss it up against the wall?? Oh no, the farangs do that in Thailand already......... All kidding aside though, that's a good point you raised there. I'm a bit amazed that there are not more cases of food poisoning etc The sewerage systems are rudimentary to say the least, and the amount of street food that is consumed is high. So sticking to topic to some extent, are the Thais taught food hygiene to any extent? are they taught well? or is it non-existent? Everywhere I've been in Asia, staff absenteeism through 'food poisoning' has been much higher than I experienced in the UK; whenever I was personally afflicted, it was normally accompanied by a throbbing head and pains in the wallet SC I think you will find it is safer to drink urine than eat hamburgers if one relies on food poisoning statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo9 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Good example of lack of education. Typical urine is sterile and does not cause disease. Maybe Thais know this? smells great though doesnt it when you walk out the door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo9 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Good example of lack of education. Typical urine is sterile and does not cause disease. Maybe Thais know this? smells great though doesnt it when you walk out the door Oh and it attracts flies too which is even better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Good example of lack of education. Typical urine is sterile and does not cause disease. Maybe Thais know this? As there are numerous instances where one can't recondition.....or educate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo9 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Maybe they should just piss it up against the wall?? Oh no, the farangs do that in Thailand already......... All kidding aside though, that's a good point you raised there. I'm a bit amazed that there are not more cases of food poisoning etc The sewerage systems are rudimentary to say the least, and the amount of street food that is consumed is high. So sticking to topic to some extent, are the Thais taught food hygiene to any extent? are they taught well? or is it non-existent? Everywhere I've been in Asia, staff absenteeism through 'food poisoning' has been much higher than I experienced in the UK; whenever I was personally afflicted, it was normally accompanied by a throbbing head and pains in the wallet SC I think you will find it is safer to drink urine than eat hamburgers if one relies on food poisoning statistics. Think you will find out that hamburgers taste better... Being an x soldier and tried them both ill take my chances with the meat ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Good example of lack of education. Typical urine is sterile and does not cause disease. Maybe Thais know this? smells great though doesnt it when you walk out the door Better than a polyester football shirt but neither will make you sick. I guess it is what you get used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Maybe they should just piss it up against the wall?? Oh no, the farangs do that in Thailand already......... All kidding aside though, that's a good point you raised there. I'm a bit amazed that there are not more cases of food poisoning etc The sewerage systems are rudimentary to say the least, and the amount of street food that is consumed is high. So sticking to topic to some extent, are the Thais taught food hygiene to any extent? are they taught well? or is it non-existent? Everywhere I've been in Asia, staff absenteeism through 'food poisoning' has been much higher than I experienced in the UK; whenever I was personally afflicted, it was normally accompanied by a throbbing head and pains in the wallet SC I think you will find it is safer to drink urine than eat hamburgers if one relies on food poisoning statistics. Not if you come out on the piss with me its not. Though to be sure, food poisoning is the least of my worries. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Good example of lack of education. Typical urine is sterile and does not cause disease. Maybe Thais know this? As there are numerous instances where one can't recondition.....or educate. As on Thai Visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They should be taught that pissing on your front porch causes disease and illness... no wonder the children are sick everymonth... Banging your head against a wall telling them its not good to do Good example of lack of education. Typical urine is sterile and does not cause disease. Maybe Thais know this? As there are numerous instances where one can't recondition.....or educate. As on Thai Visa. Indeed, Kerry.... Indoctrination and social engineering manifest itself in a variety of ways. And it's not the exclusive domain of those people. Such manipulated character is quite easily applied throughout the Occidental. Obvious....to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 my girlfriends little boy is 3 year old walks out the front door and pisses everywhere... getting <deleted> tired of it and telling her oh but guess what he is sick again today.. som num na Who's more stupid? The three-year-old kid that pisses on the front door? The mother that lets him do it? Or the farang that lives with it? Serious question. Im not taking the ____ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 my girlfriends little boy is 3 year old walks out the front door and pisses everywhere... getting <deleted> tired of it and telling her oh but guess what he is sick again today.. som num na Who's more stupid? The three-year-old kid that pisses on the front door? The mother that lets him do it? Or the farang that lives with it? Serious question. Im not taking the ____ Its not a race. Just because you might be less stupid than your neighbours, is no reason not to improve. Perhaps if the three-year-old was smarter he could teach the others the benefits of education, or tolerance. If the mother was smarter, she could teach discipline, or cultural sensitivity If the farang was smarter, he could teach obedience or expalin hygiene better. We're none of us perfect, and so much as we think ourselves better than others we hold back our own development until they surpass us SC Anyway, love is more important than smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 my girlfriends little boy is 3 year old walks out the front door and pisses everywhere... getting <deleted> tired of it and telling her oh but guess what he is sick again today.. som num na Who's more stupid? The three-year-old kid that pisses on the front door? The mother that lets him do it? Or the farang that lives with it? Serious question. Im not taking the ____ Its not a race. Just because you might be less stupid than your neighbours, is no reason not to improve. Perhaps if the three-year-old was smarter he could teach the others the benefits of education, or tolerance. If the mother was smarter, she could teach discipline, or cultural sensitivity If the farang was smarter, he could teach obedience or expalin hygiene better. We're none of us perfect, and so much as we think ourselves better than others we hold back our own development until they surpass us SC Anyway, love is more important than smart Teach the kid to use a toilet. GFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So to summarize, critical thinking is a western construct that has no place in the Thai educational system. Pivotal moments of the 20th century have no bearing upon the Thais, so they are better off learning about their own regional superiority instead. It is okay to make derogatory comments about certain kinds of Americans and Brits. And last and should be least, all urine is sterile(only if the donor does not have diseased kidneys, a UTI, or an unclean foreskin)and it is perfectly okay to urinate around one's home. You must have been reading a different thread from me. My understanding was that a reasonable summary of the thread would be "Effectively, No" and the rest was Off-Topic SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 So to summarize, critical thinking is a western construct that has no place in the Thai educational system. Pivotal moments of the 20th century have no bearing upon the Thais, so they are better off learning about their own regional superiority instead. It is okay to make derogatory comments about certain kinds of Americans and Brits. And last and should be least, all urine is sterile(only if the donor does not have diseased kidneys, a UTI, or an unclean foreskin)and it is perfectly okay to urinate around one's home. Us clever Westerners come to Thailand to take advantage of the local population with our superior technology and intelligence/education. After we get here because of our Western morals we have to justify our existence and can either go one of two ways, help the Thais get smart or become a Thai apologist and say the Thais are already smart. The Thai reaction to this is to piss on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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