Are Thais Taught Anything About The World Outside Of Thailand

[Kananga]

But that's not a single country Somchard. Focus. Focus.

[Richard4849]

Yes to all. Reading comprehension is not your forte, jungle boy.

[kerryk]

I was under the impression

the Thai education system taught Thais to be subservient and obey their 'betters'.

while

the western education system taught their pupils to rebel against their society.

I think the aims are the exact opposite.

You just know that Richard will not address this problem or the importance of a free press to international knowledge in education.

He'll just say that western press isn't free either and we are just assuming it is because of our superior western attitude...

Somchai says: and I just got chastised for going off topic? Education, now the free press?

I wonder if these farangs know the meaning of the word "obfuscation" in their language?

See, he couldn't deal with the question. Of course a free press is important to education. But more than that is the other question about the Thai education system teaching children what Thai peasants need to know as evidenced by the last election and the feeling of many educated Thais that the peasants are not ready for a free press or full voting rights as evidenced by the suggestion that college graduates get two votes. Is Somchai in favor of this too?

So blather on about grammar and avoid the issue of Thai students remaining ignorant of the world at large because they are not ready for that kind of knowledge.

[Richard4849]

"Censorship" in the Thai press -- such that it exists -- is entirely and completely limited to domestic issues (the monarchy, mostly).

We were talking about Thais learning about the outside world.

The freedom (or lack thereof) in the local press does exactly zero to prohibit Thais learning about the world around them. It is all there for them to explore -- in the press, on TV, and on the internet, if they want to.

It's not a North Korea situation.

[mikechudej]

Thai education system is not the greatest in the world. I can say that because I am Thai. I've been studied in Thailand as well as some of the Western countries. The system don't really encourage kids to think. It's still the same today as it was 30 year ago.

[Richard4849]

Agreed. Could be better.

But I'd say exactly the same about the American, British, and UK public school systems.

All pretty much suck.

[mikechudej]

That's why one should never stop learning.

[kerryk]

"Censorship" in the Thai press -- such that it exists -- is entirely and completely limited to domestic issues (the monarchy, mostly).

We were talking about Thais learning about the outside world.

The freedom (or lack thereof) in the local press does exactly zero to prohibit Thais learning about the world around them. It is all there for them to explore -- in the press, on TV, and on the internet, if they want to.

It's not a North Korea situation.

One you are completely wrong but I can't tell you why because TV is censored. I guess that proves my point. How many internet sites are blocked as of today?

But you couldn't answer my question. All you have to do is push the reply button. This was the post. "See, he couldn't deal with the question. Of course a free press is important to education. But more than that is the other question about the Thai education system teaching children what Thai peasants need to know as evidenced by the last election and the feeling of many educated Thais that the peasants are not ready for a free press or full voting rights as evidenced by the suggestion that college graduates get two votes. Is Somchai in favor of this too?

So blather on about grammar and avoid the issue of Thai students remaining ignorant of the world at large because they are not ready for that kind of knowledge.

[soomak]

Careful, you may end up giving me an example of how poor the standard of English proficiency is in Thailand Especially when compared to the poorer, less economically developed Vietnam I had just returned from.

The importance of English proficiency is way overrated. Japan vs Philippines, Korea vs Vietnam, and so on. "Less economically developed Vietnam" is correct. What has higher English proficiency done for them?

The comparison should not be Japan vs Philippines, it should be countries with similar level of development.

Let's compare the Philippines with Thailand for example:

How has English helped the Filipinos:

1. Hundreds of thousands of Filipinos are employed in call centers and customer support centers, serving western clients.

My company employs 5 of them as we speak.

I would consider employing Thais - but they just can't speak, read or write English well enough.

2. Millions of Filipinos are employed abroad as nurses, house keepers, care-takers, sales representatives, and many other jobs.

Almost all of them communicate with employers and clients in English.

For example, in my country, all the care-takers for old people are Filipino, as well as many house keepers.

Thais are employed only in agriculture, where language is not relevant.

Your points are accurate but your logic is flawed in some respects. I've been to the PI. Man, they've got some problems. Major problems. Your point number 2 is particularly accurate--which somewhat supports my points. Millions of the most educated and capable Filipinos are living and working overseas--but not at home. Says a lot about the conditions in the PI, don't you think?

So if you were to compare the Philippines to Thailand today in terms of future prospects, short, medium, and long term, there's no comparison. Thailand is moving in the right direction, the PI is not.

I was trying to explain how English proficiency is important and how it creates opportunities that the average Thai does not have.

The Philippines is a poor and badly run country, and people there make far too many kids to allow for a steady progress. However - this has nothing to do with English proficiency.

However, the Filipinos, as individuals, have a chance of creating a better life for themselves, because they are quite well educated, and they speak, read and write English.

English proficiency has helped many of my countrymen as well, as they work in international hi-tech companies, or in local hi-tech company targeted at the international market.

As a result, they earn western salaries, which are hard to obtain in other fields of employment.

I really don't see any of that happening in Thailand.

[kerryk]

Agreed. Could be better.

But I'd say exactly the same about the American, British, and UK public school systems.

All pretty much suck.

That is more than absurd. You are saying the American and UK public school systems are the same as the Thai education system?

[Richard4849]

Agreed. Could be better.

But I'd say exactly the same about the American, British, and UK public school systems.

All pretty much suck.

That is more than absurd. You are saying the American and UK public school systems are the same as the Thai education system?

The same in one respect: they could all use improvement.

[Richard4849]

"Censorship" in the Thai press -- such that it exists -- is entirely and completely limited to domestic issues (the monarchy, mostly).

We were talking about Thais learning about the outside world.

The freedom (or lack thereof) in the local press does exactly zero to prohibit Thais learning about the world around them. It is all there for them to explore -- in the press, on TV, and on the internet, if they want to.

It's not a North Korea situation.

One you are completely wrong but I can't tell you why because TV is censored. I guess that proves my point. How many internet sites are blocked as of today?

But you couldn't answer my question. All you have to do is push the reply button. This was the post. "See, he couldn't deal with the question. Of course a free press is important to education. But more than that is the other question about the Thai education system teaching children what Thai peasants need to know as evidenced by the last election and the feeling of many educated Thais that the peasants are not ready for a free press or full voting rights as evidenced by the suggestion that college graduates get two votes. Is Somchai in favor of this too?

So blather on about grammar and avoid the issue of Thai students remaining ignorant of the world at large because they are not ready for that kind of knowledge.

Approximately 80,000 sites currently blocked.

approx. 80% of them deal with the monarchy

Approx. 19% of them are pornographic websites

So what, exactly, is it about the outside world that Thailand's internet censors are currently blocking?

I'm very curious to hear your position, as all I see blocked are anti-monarchy and smut sites.

Compare this to China, which blocks Facebook, YouTube, etc. etc.

[kerryk]

Agreed. Could be better.

But I'd say exactly the same about the American, British, and UK public school systems.

All pretty much suck.

That is more than absurd. You are saying the American and UK public school systems are the same as the Thai education system?

The same in one respect: they could all use improvement.

Florida and Somalia both have hot weather and beaches vacations in both places must be about the same.

[kerryk]

"Censorship" in the Thai press -- such that it exists -- is entirely and completely limited to domestic issues (the monarchy, mostly).

We were talking about Thais learning about the outside world.

The freedom (or lack thereof) in the local press does exactly zero to prohibit Thais learning about the world around them. It is all there for them to explore -- in the press, on TV, and on the internet, if they want to.

It's not a North Korea situation.

One you are completely wrong but I can't tell you why because TV is censored. I guess that proves my point. How many internet sites are blocked as of today?

But you couldn't answer my question. All you have to do is push the reply button. This was the post. "See, he couldn't deal with the question. Of course a free press is important to education. But more than that is the other question about the Thai education system teaching children what Thai peasants need to know as evidenced by the last election and the feeling of many educated Thais that the peasants are not ready for a free press or full voting rights as evidenced by the suggestion that college graduates get two votes. Is Somchai in favor of this too?

So blather on about grammar and avoid the issue of Thai students remaining ignorant of the world at large because they are not ready for that kind of knowledge.

Approximately 80,000 sites currently blocked.

approx. 80% of them deal with the monarchy

Approx. 19% of them are pornographic websites

So what, exactly, is it about the outside world that Thailand's internet censors are currently blocking?

I'm very curious to hear your position, as all I see blocked are anti-monarchy and smut sites.

Compare this to China, which blocks Facebook, YouTube, etc. etc.

Sorry Richard can't answer against TV rules.

[Richard4849]

"Censorship" in the Thai press -- such that it exists -- is entirely and completely limited to domestic issues (the monarchy, mostly).

We were talking about Thais learning about the outside world.

The freedom (or lack thereof) in the local press does exactly zero to prohibit Thais learning about the world around them. It is all there for them to explore -- in the press, on TV, and on the internet, if they want to.

It's not a North Korea situation.

One you are completely wrong but I can't tell you why because TV is censored. I guess that proves my point. How many internet sites are blocked as of today?

But you couldn't answer my question. All you have to do is push the reply button. This was the post. "See, he couldn't deal with the question. Of course a free press is important to education. But more than that is the other question about the Thai education system teaching children what Thai peasants need to know as evidenced by the last election and the feeling of many educated Thais that the peasants are not ready for a free press or full voting rights as evidenced by the suggestion that college graduates get two votes. Is Somchai in favor of this too?

So blather on about grammar and avoid the issue of Thai students remaining ignorant of the world at large because they are not ready for that kind of knowledge.

Approximately 80,000 sites currently blocked.

approx. 80% of them deal with the monarchy

Approx. 19% of them are pornographic websites

So what, exactly, is it about the outside world that Thailand's internet censors are currently blocking?

I'm very curious to hear your position, as all I see blocked are anti-monarchy and smut sites.

Compare this to China, which blocks Facebook, YouTube, etc. etc.

Sorry Richard can't answer against TV rules.

Send me a PM then.

[Richard4849]

Agreed. Could be better.

But I'd say exactly the same about the American, British, and UK public school systems.

All pretty much suck.

That is more than absurd. You are saying the American and UK public school systems are the same as the Thai education system?

The same in one respect: they could all use improvement.

Florida and Somalia both have hot weather and beaches vacations in both places must be about the same.

No one made such a ludicrous comparison. I said they were alike IN ONE RESPECT...not "about the same" or anything remotely similar.

[SteeleJoe]

Agreed. Could be better.

But I'd say exactly the same about the American, British, and UK public school systems.

All pretty much suck.

Of course you agreed. More important than the fact that it's true -- and is exactly what virtually every single Thai I've spoken to on the topic over 30 years (that must be hundreds) has said, a Thai said it and therefore you have to like it. But there's no possible way you could have agreed without going for the astonishingly predictable and kneejerk reaction: 'but the west is too'.

[Richard4849]

Agreed. Could be better.

But I'd say exactly the same about the American, British, and UK public school systems.

All pretty much suck.

Of course you agreed. More important than the fact that it's true -- and is exactly what virtually every single Thai I've spoken to on the topic over 30 years (that must be hundreds) has said, a Thai said it and therefore you have to like it. But there's no possible way you could have agreed without going for the astonishingly predictable and kneejerk reaction: 'but the west is too'.

Wha? Are you trying to paint me as a Thai apologist? Shall I say some bad things about Thailand to gain your respect?

The state of the sidewalks is terrible.

Driving manners are terrible.

There is no excuse for double-pricing, whether private or public business.

The Phuket and Pattaya baht-bus mafias need to be eradicated.

TAT and the cops don't do anything but pay lip service to the tourist scam problem.

Have I proven myself worthy yet?

Back to the educational system. Some of the smartest people I've ever met are products of the Thai educational system, and some of the dumbest.

I meet lots of smart Thais, and lots of dumb ones. Wow, just like farangs.

PS: where's my PM with information on how internet censorship is creating a block to Thais wanting to learn about the outside world. I'm waiting.

[SteeleJoe]

1) I've said time and time again on this forum (not that I'd expect you to be aware of it) tand lesewhere over the years that I have as little time and much contempt for the obsessive Thai bashers as I do for their opposites.

2) As for gaining my respect (not that I think you actually want it or should), being critical about those (safe) things now doesn't change what you posted on in this thread (and others I've seen). It doesn't make your arguments sound, objective or intellectually honest.

3) Education and intelligence are two different things. Your comment and the fact that some of the smartest people I know are Thai (I've been married to one of those very people nearly 2 decades) ultimately says very little if anything about the Thai education system.

4) Nowhere did I -- or anyone else that I recall (but I could be wrong) -- state or imply that a person is more likely to be intelligent if they are a Farang or that there aren't smart and dumb among both groups. Two words: Straw. Man.

5) Why are you asking me about a PM that I know nothing about and has nothing to do with me?

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

The comparison should not be Japan vs Philippines, it should be countries with similar level of development.

Let's compare the Philippines with Thailand for example:

How has English helped the Filipinos:

1. Hundreds of thousands of Filipinos are employed in call centers and customer support centers, serving western clients.

My company employs 5 of them as we speak.

I would consider employing Thais - but they just can't speak, read or write English well enough.

2. Millions of Filipinos are employed abroad as nurses, house keepers, care-takers, sales representatives, and many other jobs.

Almost all of them communicate with employers and clients in English.

For example, in my country, all the care-takers for old people are Filipino, as well as many house keepers.

Thais are employed only in agriculture, where language is not relevant.

Your points are accurate but your logic is flawed in some respects. I've been to the PI. Man, they've got some problems. Major problems. Your point number 2 is particularly accurate--which somewhat supports my points. Millions of the most educated and capable Filipinos are living and working overseas--but not at home. Says a lot about the conditions in the PI, don't you think?

So if you were to compare the Philippines to Thailand today in terms of future prospects, short, medium, and long term, there's no comparison. Thailand is moving in the right direction, the PI is not.

I was trying to explain how English proficiency is important and how it creates opportunities that the average Thai does not have.

The Philippines is a poor and badly run country, and people there make far too many kids to allow for a steady progress. However - this has nothing to do with English proficiency.

However, the Filipinos, as individuals, have a chance of creating a better life for themselves, because they are quite well educated, and they speak, read and write English.

English proficiency has helped many of my countrymen as well, as they work in international hi-tech companies, or in local hi-tech company targeted at the international market.

As a result, they earn western salaries, which are hard to obtain in other fields of employment.

I really don't see any of that happening in Thailand.

The big advantage that Filippinos have is that they can leave their country of birth and education to pay tax in far more benign countries, leaving their own country to the corrupt and incompetent. On the other hand, overseas foreign workers are one of the biggest contributors to the Philippines' balance of trade.

SC

[Kananga]

1) I've said time and time again on this forum (not that I'd expect you to be aware of it) tand lesewhere over the years that I have as little time and much contempt for the obsessive Thai bashers as I do for their opposites.

2) As for gaining my respect (not that I think you actually want it or should), being critical about those (safe) things now doesn't change what you posted on in this thread (and others I've seen). It doesn't make your arguments sound, objective or intellectually honest.

3) Education and intelligence are two different things. Your comment and the fact that some of the smartest people I know are Thai (I've been married to one of those very people nearly 2 decades) ultimately says very little if anything about the Thai education system.

4) Nowhere did I -- or anyone else that I recall (but I could be wrong) -- state or imply that a person is more likely to be intelligent if they are a Farang or that there aren't smart and dumb among both groups. Two words: Straw. Man.

5) Why are you asking me about a PM that I know nothing about and has nothing to do with me?

Excellent points. You've unravelled poor old Somchard into tiny threads.

[StreetCowboy]

1) I've said time and time again on this forum (not that I'd expect you to be aware of it) tand lesewhere over the years that I have as little time and much contempt for the obsessive Thai bashers as I do for their opposites.

2) As for gaining my respect (not that I think you actually want it or should), being critical about those (safe) things now doesn't change what you posted on in this thread (and others I've seen). It doesn't make your arguments sound, objective or intellectually honest.

3) Education and intelligence are two different things. Your comment and the fact that some of the smartest people I know are Thai (I've been married to one of those very people nearly 2 decades) ultimately says very little if anything about the Thai education system.

4) Nowhere did I -- or anyone else that I recall (but I could be wrong) -- state or imply that a person is more likely to be intelligent if they are a Farang or that there aren't smart and dumb among both groups. Two words: Straw. Man.

5) Why are you asking me about a PM that I know nothing about and has nothing to do with me?

Excellent points. You've unravelled poor old Somchard into tiny threads.

I was asking Somchai about this when I met him in the pub this evening, and he said he was right dead mortified by all this bickering. He'd only pointed out a few possible grammatical errors to Richard , to improve his own English, because his teacher was a whinging Scouse git with an impenetrable accent, and suddenly Richard was off on the third crusade.

Its a sad day when you can;t even trust your imaginary friends to back you up.

SC

[Kananga]

1) I've said time and time again on this forum (not that I'd expect you to be aware of it) tand lesewhere over the years that I have as little time and much contempt for the obsessive Thai bashers as I do for their opposites.

2) As for gaining my respect (not that I think you actually want it or should), being critical about those (safe) things now doesn't change what you posted on in this thread (and others I've seen). It doesn't make your arguments sound, objective or intellectually honest.

3) Education and intelligence are two different things. Your comment and the fact that some of the smartest people I know are Thai (I've been married to one of those very people nearly 2 decades) ultimately says very little if anything about the Thai education system.

4) Nowhere did I -- or anyone else that I recall (but I could be wrong) -- state or imply that a person is more likely to be intelligent if they are a Farang or that there aren't smart and dumb among both groups. Two words: Straw. Man.

5) Why are you asking me about a PM that I know nothing about and has nothing to do with me?

Excellent points. You've unravelled poor old Somchard into tiny threads.

I was asking Somchai about this when I met him in the pub this evening, and he said he was right dead mortified by all this bickering. He'd only pointed out a few possible grammatical errors to Richard , to improve his own English, because his teacher was a whinging Scouse git with an impenetrable accent, and suddenly Richard was off on the third crusade.

Its a sad day when you can;t even trust your imaginary friends to back you up.

SC

He must have left soon after you because I've just had Somchai pop up on facebook messenger. I couldn't believe it when he started talking in text speak. Its m8 this and LMFAO that. If I didn't know Somchai was more highly educated than Stephen Hawking and occasionally provides speech lessons to the Queen (The real one in England) I would have sworn it was Rocky Balboa.

[Patron]

most uneducated people are in the USA.

they dont know where Paris is, they don't know thailand, and confuse switzerland with sweden, they never heared about foreign money, dont know who kadafi was,in fact they know nothing!

they watch the news, and they are still clueless.they have internet, and are still clueless. mean not all, not US people living outside of the USA, but most of US people don't have much in their head

thai people know where europe is, unlike US.they even know france, switzerland,...ok, education is not the best, but I think thai people know a little bit more than US people, ladies know how to coock, clean, and take care of a man. US girls, pfff!

I wish I was from Stockholm like you. It's not fun being a clueless American. Do Swiss ladies know how to coock?

[mca]

Somchai says that in Por. 6 he was taught that the adjectival form of the verb "obfuscate" was "obfuscatory".

I hope you're taking the piss now Richard.

[SteeleJoe]

1) I've said time and time again on this forum (not that I'd expect you to be aware of it) tand lesewhere over the years that I have as little time and much contempt for the obsessive Thai bashers as I do for their opposites.

2) As for gaining my respect (not that I think you actually want it or should), being critical about those (safe) things now doesn't change what you posted on in this thread (and others I've seen). It doesn't make your arguments sound, objective or intellectually honest.

3) Education and intelligence are two different things. Your comment and the fact that some of the smartest people I know are Thai (I've been married to one of those very people nearly 2 decades) ultimately says very little if anything about the Thai education system.

4) Nowhere did I -- or anyone else that I recall (but I could be wrong) -- state or imply that a person is more likely to be intelligent if they are a Farang or that there aren't smart and dumb among both groups. Two words: Straw. Man.

5) Why are you asking me about a PM that I know nothing about and has nothing to do with me?

Excellent points. You've unravelled poor old Somchard into tiny threads.

I was asking Somchai about this when I met him in the pub this evening, and he said he was right dead mortified by all this bickering. He'd only pointed out a few possible grammatical errors to Richard , to improve his own English, because his teacher was a whinging Scouse git with an impenetrable accent, and suddenly Richard was off on the third crusade.

Its a sad day when you can;t even trust your imaginary friends to back you up.

SC

BRILLIANT

[kerryk]

One you are completely wrong but I can't tell you why because TV is censored. I guess that proves my point. How many internet sites are blocked as of today?

But you couldn't answer my question. All you have to do is push the reply button. This was the post. "See, he couldn't deal with the question. Of course a free press is important to education. But more than that is the other question about the Thai education system teaching children what Thai peasants need to know as evidenced by the last election and the feeling of many educated Thais that the peasants are not ready for a free press or full voting rights as evidenced by the suggestion that college graduates get two votes. Is Somchai in favor of this too?

So blather on about grammar and avoid the issue of Thai students remaining ignorant of the world at large because they are not ready for that kind of knowledge.

Approximately 80,000 sites currently blocked.

approx. 80% of them deal with the monarchy

Approx. 19% of them are pornographic websites

So what, exactly, is it about the outside world that Thailand's internet censors are currently blocking?

I'm very curious to hear your position, as all I see blocked are anti-monarchy and smut sites.

Compare this to China, which blocks Facebook, YouTube, etc. etc.

Sorry Richard can't answer against TV rules.

Send me a PM then.

Sorry Richard I went to bed.

I respect Thailand and the laws of the country so I won't write anything transmitted over the INTERNET even by PM that might be against those laws.

Your defense of Thai censorship is unusual for a Western person. I have heard it before by educated Thai people (Yellow shirts). They held that censorship was necessary because the farmers were not able to understand the complexities of information presented by a free press and freedom of speech. At the time I was lecturing on post WW II South East Asia, a period they were very interested in.

Although I agreed with much the yellow shirts stood for we always had two sticking points that came back to education. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press they always said both were good ideals but because of the limited extent of Thais education they were not able to handle either yet.

So both the Thai intelligentsia and I both thought freedom of speech and the press were good things where we differed was, I thought it was a part of a good education and they thought a good education was a preliminary to implementing freedom of speech and the press. They still hold sway over Thai education and the farmers sons and daughters are taught only things that will not cause debate or stimulate critical thinking.

The discussion is actually a hollow point as the media will eventually win out and universal education will find a way into previously insular Thai education. Knowledge of the West will progress like MacDonald's and Coke and the Borg. It is useless to resist.

[KarenBravo]

The Thai education system teaches Thai kids what is important for them to know, while the Western system does the same.

That's exactly right.

That Thailand has a glorious past and is absolutely the best place to be from.

To accept their lot in life.

Not to question wiser, older heads.

[HeavyDrinker]

The Thai education system teaches Thai kids what is important for them to know, while the Western system does the same.

That's exactly right.

That Thailand has a glorious past and is absolutely the best place to be from.

To accept their lot in life.

Not to question wiser, older heads.

Piffle!

It's not right at all.

Western education actually teaches students how to think for themselves.

Thai education teaches students what the powers want them to know and theirs is not to question why....

That's the complete opposite of what Richard (or was it Somchai?) wrote.

Edited September 24, 2011 by HeavyDrinker

[KarenBravo]

The Thai education system teaches Thai kids what is important for them to know, while the Western system does the same.

That's exactly right.

That Thailand has a glorious past and is absolutely the best place to be from.

To accept their lot in life.

Not to question wiser, older heads.

Piffle!

It's not right at all.

Western education actually teaches students how to think for themselves.

Thai education teaches students what the powers want them to know and theirs is not to question why....

That's the complete opposite of what Richard (or was it Somchai?) wrote.

Sorry, forgot to take off the last seven words from the quote.

My comments are in regard to the Thai education system only.

I totally agree that the western education system teaches one to think for themselves, encourages questions and questioning.

Edited September 24, 2011 by KarenBravo