DSI Urges Police To Provide Forensic Proof On Red-Shirt Protest Victims

[Buchholz]

Seh Deng was killed by water melon soldiers or tomato cops, a right wing fascist got out of control after the raid on the hospital. Dangerous for the "Reds" and their international reputation. One of the conspiracy theories, plausibility very high.

Plausibility miniscule to nil.

The trajectory of the bullet that killed him points clearly to the upper floors of a building that was under complete control of the military forces, and not of an empty building that rogue soldiers could have accessed.

There is an advantage in attending public hearings in which forensic evidence is presented by investigators to the public ...

Wonder if the survivors reminisced over the good times with their fallen comrade when they reunited today.

.

Any source for the photo Buchholz?

Seh Daeng 'sneaked' into Cambodia to see Thaksin

Published on November 17, 2009

Major-General Khattiya Sawatdiphol yesterday admitted he had sneaked into Cambodia to meet ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Cambodian premier Hun Sen last week.

The politically active Army specialist better known as Seh Daeng said he managed to slip past immigration at the checkpoint by using his connections with Cambodian troops along the border.

"I was a warrior in Prachin Buri and know Cambodian soldiers very well. I was a trainer for many Cambodian military commanders," he said.

While in Siem Reap, he met Thaksin, who hugged him and introduced him to Hun Sen as "this warrior [who] used to fight against you at Ta Phraya and Chong Bok", referring to the scenes of two border battles in the 1980s.

Hun Sen shook his hand and said: "I saw you many times."

Later, he had his photo taken, flanked by Hun Sen and Thaksin. In the photo, Khattiya wore a red shirt and a black jacket carrying the logo of his political party, Khattiyatham.

"It was worth it. But I did not stay there too long. I had to climb the fence back into the house," he said.

Earlier, he denied entering Cambodia, saying the man in the photo was a look-alike.

Thaksin was in Cambodia as a "shadow prime minister who does not want to cut ties with Cambodia", he said.

The government of Abhisit Vejjajiva seemed to become envious after the Pheu Thai Party's chief adviser, Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, met with Hun Sen and then Thaksin became Cambodia's economic adviser, he said.

"The two countries fought from 1979-89, but bilateral ties were not cut. Now Abhisit is prime minister, and the ties are cut. He has been prime minister for 10 months, and he challenges Cambodia to a war," Khattiya said.

A military source in Sa Kaew province yesterday said Khattiya entered Cambodia last Friday without undergoing immigration procedures. He passed through the Klong Luek border checkpoint in Sa Kaew and was picked up by a Cambodian-government vehicle on the other side of the border, said the source.

Another Army source said an initial investigation found Khattiya had not requested permission to travel to a foreign country. Defence Ministry regulations require any military officer to ask for permission from the Army and the defence minister before leaving the country.

The Army will likely set up a fact-finding team to investigate Khattiya's trip to Cambodia to determine whether he had sufficient reason to leave the country without first seeking permission from his supervisors, said the source.

-- The Nation 2009-11-17

[rubl]

That hardly exonerates yours and others attitude to these matters e.g "cameraman running around" as though he was deliberately offering himself up as a target. All the usual excuses will no doubt now be trotted out, they shouldn't have been there, they were warned etc. I stand by my opinion of some pretty hard nosed bar stewards on this forum.

""A group of Special Forces soldiers came up from behind the army soldiers and engaged a group of armed militants farther ahead near the Rachadamri BTS station. A gun battle erupted, with the militants using M79s to fire at least eight or nine grenades towards the soldiers gathered on Rachadamri Road. A grenade exploded among a group of soldiers, fatally wounding one and severely injuring Canadian freelance journalist Chandler Vandergrift, who was standing with them" - HRW statement"

"I am a working journalist, and was at many of the hotspots and frontlines all over the place when things happened. That is my job. I am here to tell the tales because i was at times lucky, and at times because i made the right calls. No - i am not bullet proof, several of my colleagues were shot, as you may recall. Some of them not far away from where i was (such as Nelson Rand, Chandler Vaandergrift, and a Matichon photographer).

I was not just on the sides of the protesters, i was also at the side of the military. Such as during the battle at the National Memorial on April 28, where one soldier died of friendly fire in front of me (yes, i have taken his photo - this was a photo i did not enjoy taking). I was behind the military on May 19, and yes, i, and all of my colleagues there have seen how the military shot indiscriminately at everything that moved before and after they crossed the barricade (several protesters were killed there, and one journalist - Fabio Polengi, who was at the side of the protesters).

On April 10 i was working on both sides - first on the side of the military, and then on the side of the protesters."

[phiphidon]

You forget that there were about 2000 injured as well.

Maybe even more. Curious that figures on type of injuries and numbers have never been published. As far as I know that is. Any idea?

Still the OP is about 13 deaths out of the 91 in that dreadful period April - May 2010.

I've not seen a list of deaths and their "causes" either, apart from this; http://hirvikatu10.n...hailand/?p=1386

Note I have only posted the April 10th part of the total report which spans the years October 1947 until 2010. It's title will no doubt be greeted with derision by the usual suspects but seems to have been well researched.

For what its worth it is interesting to note that the 5 soldiers seemed to have died from blast injuries but out of the 21 civilian deaths 9 had head shot injuries and 7 with chest (and above) injuries, seemingly not consistent with aiming at lower limbs as was supposed to be the case. ALL of the people mentioned below died. 26 people are noted to have died but only 25 are shown below. I'm not sure who the the 26th person was - maybe the retired soldier?

The crackdown on 10 April around the Democracy Monument

1. Mr.Hiroyuki Muramoto, 43, A Japanese Reuters reporter. He was shot in the right chest and died on the way to the hospital.

2. Mr. Sawat Wong-ngam, 43, was shot in the head

3. Mr. Todsachai Mekngamfah, 44, was shot in the left chest

4. Mr. Charoon Chaimaen, 46, was shot in the right chest

5. Mr. Wasan Phutong, 39, was shot in the head from the back through to the front

6. Mr. Sayam Wattananukul, 53, was shot in the chest from the back

7. Mr. Monchai Sae-jong, 54, breathing failure from lung disease, died in the hospital

8. Mr. Amphon Tatiyarat, 26, was shot in the back of the head; the bullet went right through to the front

9. Mr. Yutthana Tongcharoenporn, 23, was shot in the head from behind

10. Mr. Praison Thiplom, 37, was shot in the head from the front through the back neck, died in the hospital

11. Mr. Kriengkrai Tanoi, 24, was shot in the thigh and the bullet lodged in his stomach, died in the hospital

12. Mr. Kanung Chatthe, 50, was shot in the right chest

13. Soldier Puriwat Praphan, 25, seriously wounded in the head

14. Soldier Anupong Muangraphan, 21, bruised chest, muscles in both legs were torn

15. Mr. Napaphol Phaopanas, 30, was shot in the stomach. He died in the hospital.

16. Col. Romklao Thuwatham, 43, the right neck was torn, both legs were smashed

17. Soldier Singha Onthrong, left chest and the front thigh was torn

18. Soldier Anupong Hommalee, 22, his head was hit by a bomb blast. He died in hospital.

19. Mr. Saming Taengphen, 49, was shot in the head and died in the hospital

20. Mr. Somsak Kaewsan, 34, was shot in the left chest, he died in the hospital

21. Mr. Boontham Thongpui, 40, was shot in the forehead

22. Mr. Terdsak Fungklinchan, 29, wounded in the left chest, he died in the hospital

23. Unidentified man, around 40-50 years old, wounded from the thigh cut through his blood vessels, he died in the hospital

24. Mr. Mana Arjran, 23, was shot in the head from behind, bullet went right through

25. Mr. Anan Sirikulwanich, 54, was shot

The total number of people killed at Panfah area was 26 people – 5 soldiers and 21 citizens (including 1 Japanese journalist and one retired solider).

[phiphidon]

Wonder if the survivors reminisced over the good times with their fallen comrade when they reunited today.

.

Any source for the photo Buchholz?

Seh Daeng 'sneaked' into Cambodia to see Thaksin

Published on November 17, 2009

Major-General Khattiya Sawatdiphol yesterday admitted he had sneaked into Cambodia to meet ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Cambodian premier Hun Sen last week.

The politically active Army specialist better known as Seh Daeng said he managed to slip past immigration at the checkpoint by using his connections with Cambodian troops along the border.

"I was a warrior in Prachin Buri and know Cambodian soldiers very well. I was a trainer for many Cambodian military commanders," he said.

While in Siem Reap, he met Thaksin, who hugged him and introduced him to Hun Sen as "this warrior [who] used to fight against you at Ta Phraya and Chong Bok", referring to the scenes of two border battles in the 1980s.

Hun Sen shook his hand and said: "I saw you many times."

Later, he had his photo taken, flanked by Hun Sen and Thaksin. In the photo, Khattiya wore a red shirt and a black jacket carrying the logo of his political party, Khattiyatham.

"It was worth it. But I did not stay there too long. I had to climb the fence back into the house," he said.

Earlier, he denied entering Cambodia, saying the man in the photo was a look-alike.

Thaksin was in Cambodia as a "shadow prime minister who does not want to cut ties with Cambodia", he said.

The government of Abhisit Vejjajiva seemed to become envious after the Pheu Thai Party's chief adviser, Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, met with Hun Sen and then Thaksin became Cambodia's economic adviser, he said.

"The two countries fought from 1979-89, but bilateral ties were not cut. Now Abhisit is prime minister, and the ties are cut. He has been prime minister for 10 months, and he challenges Cambodia to a war," Khattiya said.

A military source in Sa Kaew province yesterday said Khattiya entered Cambodia last Friday without undergoing immigration procedures. He passed through the Klong Luek border checkpoint in Sa Kaew and was picked up by a Cambodian-government vehicle on the other side of the border, said the source.

Another Army source said an initial investigation found Khattiya had not requested permission to travel to a foreign country. Defence Ministry regulations require any military officer to ask for permission from the Army and the defence minister before leaving the country.

The Army will likely set up a fact-finding team to investigate Khattiya's trip to Cambodia to determine whether he had sufficient reason to leave the country without first seeking permission from his supervisors, said the source.

-- The Nation 2009-11-17

Oh, so you were just pushing the boundaries of taste. Fair enough, to be expected.

[rubl]

You forget that there were about 2000 injured as well.

Maybe even more. Curious that figures on type of injuries and numbers have never been published. As far as I know that is. Any idea?

Still the OP is about 13 deaths out of the 91 in that dreadful period April - May 2010.

I've not seen a list of deaths and their "causes" either, apart from this; http://hirvikatu10.n...hailand/?p=1386

Note I have only posted the April 10th part of the total report which spans the years October 1947 until 2010. It's title will no doubt be greeted with derision by the usual suspects but seems to have been well researched.

For what its worth it is interesting to note that the 5 soldiers seemed to have died from blast injuries but out of the 21 civilian deaths 9 had head shot injuries and 7 with chest (and above) injuries, seemingly not consistent with aiming at lower limbs as was supposed to be the case. ALL of the people mentioned below died. 26 people are noted to have died but only 25 are shown below. I'm not sure who the the 26th person was - maybe the retired soldier?

list removed

The interesting part of the list of dead is the number of head injuries some of which described as 'from the back'. As you indicate the army had orders 'aim low, legs'. Still the black shirts who unexpectedly started shooting were amongst the protesters.

One thing is clear, the unexpected existence of the armed black shirts and the lobbing of grenades on the Colonel caused panic which caused more deaths. The army was not prepared for that, they were not really prepared for mob control. In Western countries the police has special units, but here the police was unable and/or unwilling to interfere, hence the involvement of the army. In itself asking for problems.

BTW the "It's title will no doubt be greeted with derision by the usual suspects" may be true, but not necessary to mention. It's almost provoking, asking for comment.

[Buchholz]

Wonder if the survivors reminisced over the good times with their fallen comrade when they reunited today.

Any source for the photo Buchholz?

Seh Daeng 'sneaked' into Cambodia to see Thaksin

Published on November 17, 2009

Major-General Khattiya Sawatdiphol yesterday admitted he had sneaked into Cambodia to meet ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Cambodian premier Hun Sen last week.

The politically active Army specialist better known as Seh Daeng said he managed to slip past immigration at the checkpoint by using his connections with Cambodian troops along the border.

"I was a warrior in Prachin Buri and know Cambodian soldiers very well. I was a trainer for many Cambodian military commanders," he said.

While in Siem Reap, he met Thaksin, who hugged him and introduced him to Hun Sen as "this warrior [who] used to fight against you at Ta Phraya and Chong Bok", referring to the scenes of two border battles in the 1980s.

Hun Sen shook his hand and said: "I saw you many times."

Later, he had his photo taken, flanked by Hun Sen and Thaksin. In the photo, Khattiya wore a red shirt and a black jacket carrying the logo of his political party, Khattiyatham.

"It was worth it. But I did not stay there too long. I had to climb the fence back into the house," he said.

Earlier, he denied entering Cambodia, saying the man in the photo was a look-alike.

Thaksin was in Cambodia as a "shadow prime minister who does not want to cut ties with Cambodia", he said.

The government of Abhisit Vejjajiva seemed to become envious after the Pheu Thai Party's chief adviser, Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, met with Hun Sen and then Thaksin became Cambodia's economic adviser, he said.

"The two countries fought from 1979-89, but bilateral ties were not cut. Now Abhisit is prime minister, and the ties are cut. He has been prime minister for 10 months, and he challenges Cambodia to a war," Khattiya said.

A military source in Sa Kaew province yesterday said Khattiya entered Cambodia last Friday without undergoing immigration procedures. He passed through the Klong Luek border checkpoint in Sa Kaew and was picked up by a Cambodian-government vehicle on the other side of the border, said the source.

Another Army source said an initial investigation found Khattiya had not requested permission to travel to a foreign country. Defence Ministry regulations require any military officer to ask for permission from the Army and the defence minister before leaving the country.

The Army will likely set up a fact-finding team to investigate Khattiya's trip to Cambodia to determine whether he had sufficient reason to leave the country without first seeking permission from his supervisors, said the source.

-- The Nation 2009-11-17

Oh, so you were just pushing the boundaries of taste. Fair enough, to be expected.

It was just a mix of current events and the mentioning of Seh Daeng that prompted a natural inquiry.

When friends get together they often discuss and reminisce about times with those that have departed.

Hun Sen's spokesman said they didn't discuss politics today, so perhaps they talked about old buddies and perhaps joking about his fun times illegally border hopping.

.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Buchholz

[nicknostitz]

You forget that there were about 2000 injured as well.

Maybe even more. Curious that figures on type of injuries and numbers have never been published. As far as I know that is. Any idea?

Still the OP is about 13 deaths out of the 91 in that dreadful period April - May 2010.

There is a lot that hasn't been published...yet.

Some of that is very sensitive.

And some of that, such as injuries, etc were at the time not convenient to publish. Very few papers at the time published stories of the dead and injured, mostly Thai papers, foremost Khao Sot, Matichon, and Thai Rath - as much as they could get away with, which wasn't much. Only a few satellite TV channels did pieces on what happened, such as TNN, and Khom Chad Luek on nation TV (who interviewed me as well). Nothing on state controlled channels. It was a time of fear, and many people who saw things did not dare to come out, and only few journalists did have the courage to go against the mainstream - which was "Yes, We Can"...

The People's Information Center has done some excellent work on getting data on what you asked.

I have taken portrait photos on several injured that have lasting disabilities. One of them was shot in the head, and a portion of his brain and skull had to be taken out, his head is on one side caved in. He is doing amazingly well, considering his injuries.

Another man, a middle aged resident of Bon Gai, who was shot when he wanted to go to Tesco on May 14th, is paralyzed from his chest down, and will have stay in his bed for the rest of his life.

One more guy i have photographed when he was shot in his buttocks at the 14th (next to Nelson Rand) has a fragmented hip that will not heal anymore. He is still coming to the protests, i have last week taken a photo of him when he attended the funeral of Vasan the flagman. He cannot sit properly anymore.

There is another protester around, who is now blind, and has constant headaches as the bullet is still lodged in his forehead. He was a motorcycle taxi driver, and sells now lottery tickets. One more guy i know has had his foot nearly shot off, and needs a few more operations before he can walk again without crutches.

There are many more protesters i know whose wounds have now healed up.

[nicknostitz]

The interesting part of the list of dead is the number of head injuries some of which described as 'from the back'. As you indicate the army had orders 'aim low, legs'. Still the black shirts who unexpectedly started shooting were amongst the protesters.

More interesting is that the DSI described some of these head shots as "from the back" when the bits information we had on forensic evidence said exactly the opposite. Similar to the statements and retractions on the bullet that killed Hiro. There, for example, is an interesting article, that shows how the DSI was fiddling with the information flow:

http://www.zenjournalist.com/2011/06/in-memory-of-hiro-muramoto/

[rubl]

The People's Information Center has done some excellent work on getting data on what you asked.

http://www.peaceandjusticenetwork.org/?page_id=288

Sorry I just pick out this sentence. It's just that we had this discussion on PIC and VoiceTV before, only two months ago!

[rubl]

The interesting part of the list of dead is the number of head injuries some of which described as 'from the back'. As you indicate the army had orders 'aim low, legs'. Still the black shirts who unexpectedly started shooting were amongst the protesters.

More interesting is that the DSI described some of these head shots as "from the back" when the bits information we had on forensic evidence said exactly the opposite. Similar to the statements and retractions on the bullet that killed Hiro. There, for example, is an interesting article, that shows how the DSI was fiddling with the information flow:

http://www.zenjournalist.com/2011/06/in-memory-of-hiro-muramoto/

The description 'from the back' is taken from the link phiphidon provided. I don't think the DSI had anything to do with that.

http://hirvikatu10.net/timeupthailand/?p=1386

[nicknostitz]

The People's Information Center has done some excellent work on getting data on what you asked.

http://www.peaceandj...rg/?page_id=288

Sorry I just pick out this sentence. It's just that we had this discussion on PIC and VoiceTV before, only two months ago!

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4574976

Well, and here the discrediting game continues - cannot argue the facts, just discredit the messengers.

Sad.

[rubl]

The People's Information Center has done some excellent work on getting data on what you asked.

http://www.peaceandj...rg/?page_id=288

Sorry I just pick out this sentence. It's just that we had this discussion on PIC and VoiceTV before, only two months ago!

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4574976

Well, and here the discrediting game continues - cannot argue the facts, just discredit the messengers.

Sad.

It works both ways, dear Nick.

Anyway, bye for now. I'm on a re-run of StarWars, now episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. Have fun

[473geo]

You forget that there were about 2000 injured as well.

Maybe even more. Curious that figures on type of injuries and numbers have never been published. As far as I know that is. Any idea?

Still the OP is about 13 deaths out of the 91 in that dreadful period April - May 2010.

I've not seen a list of deaths and their "causes" either, apart from this; http://hirvikatu10.n...hailand/?p=1386

Note I have only posted the April 10th part of the total report which spans the years October 1947 until 2010. It's title will no doubt be greeted with derision by the usual suspects but seems to have been well researched.

For what its worth it is interesting to note that the 5 soldiers seemed to have died from blast injuries but out of the 21 civilian deaths 9 had head shot injuries and 7 with chest (and above) injuries, seemingly not consistent with aiming at lower limbs as was supposed to be the case. ALL of the people mentioned below died. 26 people are noted to have died but only 25 are shown below. I'm not sure who the the 26th person was - maybe the retired soldier?

The crackdown on 10 April around the Democracy Monument

1. Mr.Hiroyuki Muramoto, 43, A Japanese Reuters reporter. He was shot in the right chest and died on the way to the hospital.

2. Mr. Sawat Wong-ngam, 43, was shot in the head

3. Mr. Todsachai Mekngamfah, 44, was shot in the left chest

4. Mr. Charoon Chaimaen, 46, was shot in the right chest

5. Mr. Wasan Phutong, 39, was shot in the head from the back through to the front

6. Mr. Sayam Wattananukul, 53, was shot in the chest from the back

7. Mr. Monchai Sae-jong, 54, breathing failure from lung disease, died in the hospital

8. Mr. Amphon Tatiyarat, 26, was shot in the back of the head; the bullet went right through to the front

9. Mr. Yutthana Tongcharoenporn, 23, was shot in the head from behind

10. Mr. Praison Thiplom, 37, was shot in the head from the front through the back neck, died in the hospital

11. Mr. Kriengkrai Tanoi, 24, was shot in the thigh and the bullet lodged in his stomach, died in the hospital

12. Mr. Kanung Chatthe, 50, was shot in the right chest

13. Soldier Puriwat Praphan, 25, seriously wounded in the head

14. Soldier Anupong Muangraphan, 21, bruised chest, muscles in both legs were torn

15. Mr. Napaphol Phaopanas, 30, was shot in the stomach. He died in the hospital.

16. Col. Romklao Thuwatham, 43, the right neck was torn, both legs were smashed

17. Soldier Singha Onthrong, left chest and the front thigh was torn

18. Soldier Anupong Hommalee, 22, his head was hit by a bomb blast. He died in hospital.

19. Mr. Saming Taengphen, 49, was shot in the head and died in the hospital

20. Mr. Somsak Kaewsan, 34, was shot in the left chest, he died in the hospital

21. Mr. Boontham Thongpui, 40, was shot in the forehead

22. Mr. Terdsak Fungklinchan, 29, wounded in the left chest, he died in the hospital

23. Unidentified man, around 40-50 years old, wounded from the thigh cut through his blood vessels, he died in the hospital

24. Mr. Mana Arjran, 23, was shot in the head from behind, bullet went right through

25. Mr. Anan Sirikulwanich, 54, was shot

The total number of people killed at Panfah area was 26 people – 5 soldiers and 21 citizens (including 1 Japanese journalist and one retired solider).

A rather pertinant quote from Buchholtz, regarding the treatment of drugs suspects by the police - drugs suspects that contained people who were possibly heavily armed, probably desperate to avoid the death sentence if found guilty at trial, and fully aware of the crime they were committing.....

Buchholz, on 2011-09-11 22:27:40, said:

I realize you're just trolling, but as none were found guilty at a trial, ALL of the people killed were innocent.

Edited September 17, 2011 by 473geo

[Buchholz]

A rather pertinant quote from Buchholtz, regarding the treatment of drugs suspects by the police - drugs suspects that contained people who were possibly heavily armed, probably desperate to avoid the death sentence if found guilty at trial, and fully aware of the crime they were committing.....

Buchholz, on 2011-09-11 22:27:40, said:

I realize you're just trolling, but as none were found guilty at a trial, ALL of the people killed were innocent.

Red Shirts equating to heavily armed drug dealers. If you say so.

[473geo]

A rather pertinant quote from Buchholtz, regarding the treatment of drugs suspects by the police - drugs suspects that contained people who were possibly heavily armed, probably desperate to avoid the death sentence if found guilty at trial, and fully aware of the crime they were committing.....

Buchholz, on 2011-09-11 22:27:40, said:

I realize you're just trolling, but as none were found guilty at a trial, ALL of the people killed were innocent.

Red Shirts equating to heavily armed drug dealers. If you say so.

No Buchholz, this is the impression you have been projecting.........but apparently by your own word.......ALL of the people killed were innocent

Edited September 17, 2011 by 473geo

[Buchholz]

A rather pertinant quote from Buchholtz, regarding the treatment of drugs suspects by the police - drugs suspects that contained people who were possibly heavily armed, probably desperate to avoid the death sentence if found guilty at trial, and fully aware of the crime they were committing.....

Buchholz, on 2011-09-11 22:27:40, said:

I realize you're just trolling, but as none were found guilty at a trial, ALL of the people killed were innocent.

Red Shirts equating to heavily armed drug dealers. If you say so.

No Buchholz, this is the impression you have been projecting.........but apparently by your own word.......ALL of the people killed were innocent

I've never previously equated the Red Shirts to heavily armed drug dealers. You did.

I also have never tried to make Drug War killings analogous to the Red Shirts, eg. How many Army soldiers died during the Drug War? How many Red Shirts that died were children?

.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Buchholz

[473geo]

That's Ok Buchholz.......I can live with the concept that in your view there are only limited similarities between the groups, mine too.........but this does not alter the fact that in both instances people died without trial.......and in your words if that be the case....................."ALL of the people killed were innocent".

[nicknostitz]

How many Red Shirts that died were children?

.

One child was shot dead during last year's protests - it took over a month until they could get the boy's identity as he lived in an orphanage at Makkasan. He died near Morleng.

[nicknostitz]

How many Red Shirts that died were children?

.

One child was shot dead during last year's protests - it took over a month until they could get the boy's identity as he lived in an orphanage at Makkasan. He died near Morleng.

One deaf old lady collecting garbage was shot dead by army snipers (lots of witnesses), who could not hear the protesters shouting at her not to cross the sniper-fire field at Samliem Dindaeng.

Edited September 17, 2011 by nicknostitz

[Buchholz]

That's Ok Buchholz.......I can live with the concept that in your view there are only limited similarities between the groups, mine too.........but this does not alter the fact that in both instances people died without trial.......and in your words if that be the case....................."ALL of the people killed were innocent".

How about if you allow me to use my own words instead of you attempting to do so?

.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

How many Red Shirts that died were children?

.

One child was shot dead during last year's protests - it took over a month until they could get the boy's identity as he lived in an orphanage at Makkasan. He died near Morleng.

One deaf old lady

Rather than respond to yourself several dozen more times to include others, can you limit your replies to the post you're quoting in regards to children.

Thanks.

[Siam Simon]

Wonder if the survivors reminisced over the good times with their fallen comrade when they reunited today.

.

Any source for the photo Buchholz?

Seh Daeng 'sneaked' into Cambodia to see Thaksin

Published on November 17, 2009

Major-General Khattiya Sawatdiphol yesterday admitted he had sneaked into Cambodia to meet ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Cambodian premier Hun Sen last week.

The politically active Army specialist better known as Seh Daeng said he managed to slip past immigration at the checkpoint by using his connections with Cambodian troops along the border.

"I was a warrior in Prachin Buri and know Cambodian soldiers very well. I was a trainer for many Cambodian military commanders," he said.

While in Siem Reap, he met Thaksin, who hugged him and introduced him to Hun Sen as "this warrior [who] used to fight against you at Ta Phraya and Chong Bok", referring to the scenes of two border battles in the 1980s.

Hun Sen shook his hand and said: "I saw you many times."

Later, he had his photo taken, flanked by Hun Sen and Thaksin. In the photo, Khattiya wore a red shirt and a black jacket carrying the logo of his political party, Khattiyatham.

"It was worth it. But I did not stay there too long. I had to climb the fence back into the house," he said.

Earlier, he denied entering Cambodia, saying the man in the photo was a look-alike.

Thaksin was in Cambodia as a "shadow prime minister who does not want to cut ties with Cambodia", he said.

The government of Abhisit Vejjajiva seemed to become envious after the Pheu Thai Party's chief adviser, Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, met with Hun Sen and then Thaksin became Cambodia's economic adviser, he said.

"The two countries fought from 1979-89, but bilateral ties were not cut. Now Abhisit is prime minister, and the ties are cut. He has been prime minister for 10 months, and he challenges Cambodia to a war," Khattiya said.

A military source in Sa Kaew province yesterday said Khattiya entered Cambodia last Friday without undergoing immigration procedures. He passed through the Klong Luek border checkpoint in Sa Kaew and was picked up by a Cambodian-government vehicle on the other side of the border, said the source.

Another Army source said an initial investigation found Khattiya had not requested permission to travel to a foreign country. Defence Ministry regulations require any military officer to ask for permission from the Army and the defence minister before leaving the country.

The Army will likely set up a fact-finding team to investigate Khattiya's trip to Cambodia to determine whether he had sufficient reason to leave the country without first seeking permission from his supervisors, said the source.

-- The Nation 2009-11-17

Oh, so you were just pushing the boundaries of taste. Fair enough, to be expected.

It's something that we just have to put up with on this particular forum. Not sure quite why, but that's how it is.

[Siam Simon]

How many Red Shirts that died were children?

.

One child was shot dead during last year's protests - it took over a month until they could get the boy's identity as he lived in an orphanage at Makkasan. He died near Morleng.

One deaf old lady

Rather than respond to yourself several dozen more times to include others, can you limit your replies to the post you're quoting in regards to children.

Thanks.

Have you been appointed by forum management as a moderator, or is it a self-appointment?

[phiphidon]

I've not seen a list of deaths and their "causes" either, apart from this; http://hirvikatu10.n...hailand/?p=1386

Note I have only posted the April 10th part of the total report which spans the years October 1947 until 2010. It's title will no doubt be greeted with derision by the usual suspects but seems to have been well researched.

For what its worth it is interesting to note that the 5 soldiers seemed to have died from blast injuries but out of the 21 civilian deaths 9 had head shot injuries and 7 with chest (and above) injuries, seemingly not consistent with aiming at lower limbs as was supposed to be the case. ALL of the people mentioned below died. 26 people are noted to have died but only 25 are shown below. I'm not sure who the the 26th person was - maybe the retired soldier?

list removed

The interesting part of the list of dead is the number of head injuries some of which described as 'from the back'. As you indicate the army had orders 'aim low, legs'. Still the black shirts who unexpectedly started shooting were amongst the protesters.

One thing is clear, the unexpected existence of the armed black shirts and the lobbing of grenades on the Colonel caused panic which caused more deaths. The army was not prepared for that, they were not really prepared for mob control. In Western countries the police has special units, but here the police was unable and/or unwilling to interfere, hence the involvement of the army. In itself asking for problems.

BTW the "It's title will no doubt be greeted with derision by the usual suspects" may be true, but not necessary to mention. It's almost provoking, asking for comment.

"The interesting part of the list of dead is the number of head injuries some of which described as 'from the back'. "

Well, I don't know about you but my natural reaction to someone firing at me would be "RUN AWAY" putting as much distance as possible between me and them. Not being possessed (pun intended) of a head like Linda Blair from the "Exorcist" the back of my head would therefore be naturally facing the soldiers. No need to make it any more complicated.

As for the title description, I did that so as to not draw attention away from the content, specifically intent on not asking for comment. If you can get past the title, there is a chance of reading further without being predisposed to bias.

[rubl]

"The interesting part of the list of dead is the number of head injuries some of which described as 'from the back'. "

Well, I don't know about you but my natural reaction to someone firing at me would be "RUN AWAY" putting as much distance as possible between me and them. Not being possessed (pun intended) of a head like Linda Blair from the "Exorcist" the back of my head would therefore be naturally facing the soldiers. No need to make it any more complicated.

Another possibility is the man in black shooting from behind. Also at first the mass of protesters was pushing forward, not easy to turn and run. I guess it's a bit too late to determine for most deaths where exactly it occurred and how that relates to the position of others. Unfortunately that means we'll see a lot more speculation.

[nicknostitz]

"The interesting part of the list of dead is the number of head injuries some of which described as 'from the back'. "

Well, I don't know about you but my natural reaction to someone firing at me would be "RUN AWAY" putting as much distance as possible between me and them. Not being possessed (pun intended) of a head like Linda Blair from the "Exorcist" the back of my head would therefore be naturally facing the soldiers. No need to make it any more complicated.

Another possibility is the man in black shooting from behind. Also at first the mass of protesters was pushing forward, not easy to turn and run. I guess it's a bit too late to determine for most deaths where exactly it occurred and how that relates to the position of others. Unfortunately that means we'll see a lot more speculation.

You are grasping for straws, "dear rubl".

There is a lot of evidence available of the April 10 incident, such as the massive amount of bullet holes in street signs, phone boxes and other fixed structures coming from the direction of the military - many of them also head high. There is much smaller amount of bullets holes from the side of the Red Shirts on Kor Hua, and all the bullet holes i could see at Dinso were from the side of the military (the DSI said that they have found a few holes from the the side of the Red Shirts, but said that the vast majority came from the side of the military).

There are videos available showing soldiers firing deliberately in the direction of the protesters on April 10 - their rifles point head high, none of the attachments necessary for firing blanks. These videos were shot from the side of the soldiers.

There is more forensic evidence which will hopefully now published, after Tharit has now apparently retracted his previous statements on the killing of Hiro.

You can be sure, that sooner or later much of what happened that day will be made available to the public.

[rubl]

Another possibility is the man in black shooting from behind. Also at first the mass of protesters was pushing forward, not easy to turn and run. I guess it's a bit too late to determine for most deaths where exactly it occurred and how that relates to the position of others. Unfortunately that means we'll see a lot more speculation.

You are grasping for straws, "dear rubl".

There is a lot of evidence available of the April 10 incident, such as the massive amount of bullet holes in street signs, phone boxes and other fixed structures coming from the direction of the military - many of them also head high. There is much smaller amount of bullets holes from the side of the Red Shirts on Kor Hua, and all the bullet holes i could see at Dinso were from the side of the military (the DSI said that they have found a few holes from the the side of the Red Shirts, but said that the vast majority came from the side of the military).

There are videos available showing soldiers firing deliberately in the direction of the protesters on April 10 - their rifles point head high, none of the attachments necessary for firing blanks. These videos were shot from the side of the soldiers.

There is more forensic evidence which will hopefully now published, after Tharit has now apparently retracted his previous statements on the killing of Hiro.

You can be sure, that sooner or later much of what happened that day will be made available to the public.

Not clutching at straws, just a bit of speculation. Anyway you seem to confirm the Robert A. report with the army firing thousands of rounds into the mass of protesters. So clearly all deaths by bullets that evening are on their account, all 16 of them. Mind you, my mother could probably shoot straighter than those soldiers. I still maintain that without the grenades and without the man in black there might not have been a single death.

Most of the truth will come out eventually.

[nicknostitz]

Another possibility is the man in black shooting from behind. Also at first the mass of protesters was pushing forward, not easy to turn and run. I guess it's a bit too late to determine for most deaths where exactly it occurred and how that relates to the position of others. Unfortunately that means we'll see a lot more speculation.

You are grasping for straws, "dear rubl".

There is a lot of evidence available of the April 10 incident, such as the massive amount of bullet holes in street signs, phone boxes and other fixed structures coming from the direction of the military - many of them also head high. There is much smaller amount of bullets holes from the side of the Red Shirts on Kor Hua, and all the bullet holes i could see at Dinso were from the side of the military (the DSI said that they have found a few holes from the the side of the Red Shirts, but said that the vast majority came from the side of the military).

There are videos available showing soldiers firing deliberately in the direction of the protesters on April 10 - their rifles point head high, none of the attachments necessary for firing blanks. These videos were shot from the side of the soldiers.

There is more forensic evidence which will hopefully now published, after Tharit has now apparently retracted his previous statements on the killing of Hiro.

You can be sure, that sooner or later much of what happened that day will be made available to the public.

Not clutching at straws, just a bit of speculation. Anyway you seem to confirm the Robert A. report with the army firing thousands of rounds into the mass of protesters. So clearly all deaths by bullets that evening are on their account, all 16 of them. Mind you, my mother could probably shoot straighter than those soldiers. I still maintain that without the grenades and without the man in black there might not have been a single death.

Most of the truth will come out eventually.

No, i neither confirm nor contest Amsterdam's report, presently. I do my own investigations. And honestly what you maintain or speculate here will play no role whatsoever as the closest you have been to this incident is conversing with me on this forum here.

Thousands of rounds were possibly fired into the protesters by the soldiers, not all of them though head high, as we have seen with the many bullet holes high up in the Democracy monument, and other fixtures on the streets. Many though were shot towards the protesters.

I will refrain from commenting on your mother.

[rixalex]

And honestly what you maintain or speculate here will play no role whatsoever as the closest you have been to this incident is conversing with me on this forum here.

Play no role whatsoever? Excuse me, but this is a public discussion forum, not a court of law, or an official investigation. Every member is given an exactly equal role - that being contribution.

[djlest]

For anyone who was actually on the streets last year, and i mean really on the streets while the events were kicking off.

Whether the army fired on the camera men by mistake or not

It was a full on war after 8pm

It was chaos and even the reds were not wearing red uniforms so they could attack the army without being fired on first.

It was a dirty fight - and no matter how many died in the process.

The reds could have avoided it all if they did not barricade the business sector with sharpened bamboo and bring in weapons.

In any WAR (which is what the reds declared)

there will be innocent casualties and mistakes due to fatigue, confusion or fear.

Trying to cast the blame on the army or the reds...

Sorry but for someone who was witness to the whole thing, as i was living directly opposite the red camp.

I have no dellussions as to what really went on - peaceful protest in the name of democracy was certainly absolute lies.

Edited September 18, 2011 by djlest