Thai Sayings and Phrases Wanted

[Peppy]

A prescient phrase for those that watched the news this evening:

สีซอให้ควายฟัง / see saw hai khwaai fang / to play the fiddle for buffaloes

I think an approximate English equivalent is "cast pearls before swine"--even the best bits of wisdom are lost on idiots. (Though perhaps it's actually a case of the clever pigs/buffaloes realizing that pearls/fiddle music won't put food in their bellies.  )

[bannork]

A prescient phrase for those that watched the news this evening:

สีซอให้ควายฟัง / see saw hai khwaai fang / to play the fiddle for buffaloes

I think an approximate English equivalent is "cast pearls before swine"--even the best bits of wisdom are lost on idiots. (Though perhaps it's actually a case of the clever pigs/buffaloes realizing that pearls/fiddle music won't put food in their bellies.  )

I saw that on the royal news, Princess Sirindhorn playing the sor (Thai violin) to some buffaloes!

[RickBradford]

The phrase is identical in Vietnamese, although the translation is 'lute' (Đàn nguyệt) rather than 'fiddle' - I expect the instruments are quite similar.

[bannork]

Apologies if this one has been on before- หอกข้างเเคร่ literally, the spear beside the litter( as in a litter a king is carried on), meaning the person can't live or sleep peacefully, he has to watch out for and be prepared for his enemies.

I can expand on this one now,it means the person cannot trust those close to him,he sleeps but that spear next to his bed could be used to harm him and the person who would harm him is one who can get inside his house, namely someone close to him.

He must beware of those close to him.

[Peppy]

The phrase is identical in Vietnamese, although the translation is 'lute' (Đàn nguyệt) rather than 'fiddle' - I expect the instruments are quite similar.

That's interesting... I wonder if there are similar phrases in any other countries in the region. Perhaps it's of Chinese origin?

Looking up the "Đàn nguyệt" on Wikipedia, I see that it is indeed a lute (played by plucking the strings like a guitar)--actually quite unlike the Thai ซอ / saw, which is a fiddle (played with a bow, like a violin).

For pictures, and more information about the instruments, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Đàn_nguyệt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_u

[Joosesis]

A prescient phrase for those that watched the news this evening:

สีซอให้ควายฟัง / see saw hai khwaai fang / to play the fiddle for buffaloes

I think an approximate English equivalent is "cast pearls before swine"--even the best bits of wisdom are lost on idiots. (Though perhaps it's actually a case of the clever pigs/buffaloes realizing that pearls/fiddle music won't put food in their bellies. )

I have a vocab question. I had never seen สี before meaning to play. I'd like to know more about this usage. Is it for any instrument? any stringed instrument? Is it used here as a rhythmic pair with the word ซอ because they start with similar consonents?

[Peppy]

I have a vocab question.  I had never seen สี before meaning to play.  I'd like to know more about this usage.  Is it for any instrument?  any stringed instrument?  Is it used here as a rhythmic pair with the word ซอ because they start with similar consonents?

สี can mean to rub against, to draw, to mill, etc. In this case it refers to the action of drawing the bow against the strings of the fiddle, so no, it can't be used for just any instrument, only fiddles and violins.

Some other common words/phrases in which you might see or have seen it include:

แปรงสีฟัน / bpraeng-see-fun / toothbrush (lit. brush for rubbing against teeth)

ยาสีฟัน / yah-see-fun / toothpaste (lit. medicine for rubbing against teeth)

โรงสี / rohng-see / a ricemill (lit. a building (with a specific purpose) for milling) sometimes โรงสีข้าว

Note that this word is spelled and pronounced exactly like the word for "colour" (สี), although it's a different word with a different meaning!

[Joosesis]

Ah, thanks, Peppy...great examples!

[DavidHouston]

From a discussion with Ted Koppel about a recent article he wrote:

" . . . but I believe there was a sense among certain of President Bush's advisers that an attack on Iraq, if successful,would serve as a warning to Iran, Syria, North Korea and a number of other potentially belligerent states.There is an old expression in the Middle East that 'you kill the chicken to scare the monkey.' "

Thai: เชือดไก่ให้ลิงดู

[bannork]

From a discussion with Ted Koppel about a recent article he wrote:

" . . . but I believe there was a sense among certain of President Bush's advisers that an attack on Iraq, if successful,would serve as a warning to Iran, Syria, North Korea and a number of other potentially belligerent states.There is an old expression in the Middle East that 'you kill the chicken to scare the monkey.' "

Thai: เชือดไก่ให้ลิงดู

And so the circle is completed, back to Random Chances, the original poster!

[sarahsbloke]

did we have "Naa nuwer jai Sewer" หน้า เนื้อ ใจ เสื่อ, my personal favourite

Beautiful body, heart of Tiger (Beautiful but merciless)

Used to warn young Thai men about women who squeeze a house and car out of them and then dump them, on the wall at my local wat.

I alway think it's funny that certain Thai ladies have been playing this same game for centuries, it doesn't just happen to foreigners.

on Thai2English I got หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ literally translated (by Thai2English) as naa (face/front/top) neua (flesh/body) jai (heart/spirit/mind) seua (tiger) with 'wolf in sheeps clothing' as the meaning. Not sure I understand the 'naa neua' part, rhymes nicely of course, but i don't understand the use of the words, the sentiment, as sarahsbloke points out, is universal

p.s. I disregarded the 'meat/beef' option for the word เนื้อ

Here is the painting

[anchan42]

did we have "Naa nuwer jai Sewer" หน้า เนื้อ ใจ เสื่อ, my personal favourite

Beautiful body, heart of Tiger (Beautiful but merciless)

Used to warn young Thai men about women who squeeze a house and car out of them and then dump them, on the wall at my local wat.

I alway think it's funny that certain Thai ladies have been playing this same game for centuries, it doesn't just happen to foreigners.

on Thai2English I got หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ literally translated (by Thai2English) as naa (face/front/top) neua (flesh/body) jai (heart/spirit/mind) seua (tiger) with 'wolf in sheeps clothing' as the meaning. Not sure I understand the 'naa neua' part, rhymes nicely of course, but i don't understand the use of the words, the sentiment, as sarahsbloke points out, is universal

p.s. I disregarded the 'meat/beef' option for the word เนื้อ

เนื้อ here means เนื้อสมัน. An extinct species. It a kind of deer.

http://www.verdantplanet.org/animalfiles/%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99

[DavidHouston]

Friends,

I have two questions from the paper regarding the sentence, .

ในขณะที่พรรคเพื่อไทยเปิดเกม"ปรองดอง" ขึ้นมาอย่างไม่มีปี่ไม่มีขลุ่ย

1. Does the phrase "ไม่มีปี่ไม่มีขลุ่ย" mean "without fanfare"?

"คำคล้องจอง" is not very helpful. For the definition of "ไม่มีปี่ไม่มีขลุ่ย", the book says, "ไม่มีปี่ไม่มีกลอง". For "ไม่มีปี่ไม่มีกลอง", the book says, "(สำ) ไม่มีเค้า, ไม่มีปี่ไม่มีขลุ่ย ก็ว่า" I think we call that a tautology.

2. Does the use of the phrase "เปิดเกม . . . ขึ้นมา" imply "insincerity" with respect to participation in the reconciliation process?

Thus, might the sentence be read to say,

"While at the same time, the Phua Thai party will start putting on a charade of "reconciliation" without any fanfare."

What do you think?

Thanks.

[SoftWater]

Here is the painting

Totally OT, I know, but I love this picture; surely it should be hung up somewhere around the beer-bar zones for the unsuspecting fresh-off-the-boat farangs....

It also strikes me as quite ironic for a large segment of the Thai population...it seems to me that its many of the ladies doing the work and their other halves that are sitting around dreaming of material wealth without doing much to earn it.

[Benchamas]

When cat's away, mice plays = maew mai yuu, noo raa roeng / แมวไม่อยู่ หนูร่าเริง

[bannork]

I was reading about the official who was creating a stir about bought positions and the paper said-ฟาดหัวฟาดหาง literally to thrash the head and tail about, exhibiting rage as a bull, crocodile, buffalo may do- in human terms to be angry, create a fuss because one is furious.

[klons]

I was reading about the official who was creating a stir about bought positions and the paper said-ฟาดหัวฟาดหาง literally to thrash the head and tail about, exhibiting rage as a bull, crocodile, buffalo may do- in human terms to be angry, create a fuss because one is furious.

The other day while I was studying how not be a hot head when fighting

foer a parking space, I came across something similar.

หัวฟัดหัวเหวี่ยง

as in

แม้กระทั่งโดนแย่งที่จอดรถก็โกรธหัวฟัดหัวเหวี่ยงจะเอาเรื่องเอาราวกับเขา

I found หัวฟัดหัวเหวี่ยง somewhere on the net where it said it means to flounce.

So I had to look up flounce which I think means to exagerate yor actions.

My translation of the phrase would be:

Even when I fight for a parking stop, I flounce my anger and take offense at him.

[bannork]

จับผิด to always find fault with something, someone,

เชิงรุก to be proactive

[bannork]

I'm wondering how the meaning of เขียนเสือให้วัวกลัว differs from RC's original post on this thread on slitting the chicken's throat in front of the monkey, ie set an example (for others to fear)

[bannork]

A story in the paper today was about 2 brothers, one had some cows which he used to graze in front of his brother's house, unfortunately they always left their calling cards which he didn't bother to clear up.

In the end the 'victim' went to his brother's house with a gun and shot him dead, the phrase used can be translated as (to pluck up/ be full of)Dutch courage: ดื่มสุราย้อมใจ before shooting ก่อนยิง ...

[Tod Daniels]

I was just reading a thai magazine called ดารานางแบบ and it had an interesting analogy in it when describing the physical attributes of one of their cover models (a girl from ร้อยเอ็ด, named กุ๊งกิ๊ง กิติกา).

Sadly, I can't find the mag now as I think some thai friend 'borrowed it'; I seem to remember that it said something along the lines of; หน้าประถม นมมหาลัย or face like a primary school student with breasts like a college girl. The other nite out on the streets the thai guys I sit with said it's usually spoken with มัธยม and not มหาลัย at the end. Still I thought it was a great idiom to describe a young-ish looking, yet well endowed thai girl. ..

In other news, (while I might have posted this before, it came up again just the other nite) when I was sitting outside drinking Blend 285 and SangSom with my thai guy friends .

Usually we drink, eat, watch the hordes of tourists wander down my soi to the over priced, marginal quality, totally bland tasting thai food restaurant Cabbages & Condoms. We talk sports, politics, spend time ogling the women, and offer out comments in poor taste about the people passing buy, (in other words, pretty much the same thing guys in any other country would do passing time drinking, )

A VERY attractive foreign gurl walked by; however, it was oh-so obvious that her hair was dyed . I mentioned to my friends we had an idiom in english which asks the question, "I wonder if the drapes match the carpet?" When I explained it to them that by drapes we meant the hair on her head, and by carpet we meant the hair the in the other area; they fell about the place, laughing until they nearly were weeping. They said there is no similar analogy in thai as most thai women have dark 'drapes' and unless they are 'carpet-less', they have one that matches too. They did think it was funny though.

FWIW: those guys have given me more hi-usage middle aged thai guy interaction idioms, slang, and colloquially spoken phrases than I can even remember. Now if I don't take my small notebook outside when I go, I end up having them เข้าหูซ้ายทะลุหูขวา just minutes later.

It is my experience especially in the area I live, that ANYONE can make friends with thai women, but finding quality thai guys to hang out with who are close to my age, education, etc was a tough row to hoe, early on. It's one of the reasons that even though I hate the area , I'm loathe to move ; I've got such good thai friends.

[kokesaat]

The last time I heard เฉือดไก่ให้ลิงดู (killing a chicken to show off to a pack of monkeys) was when Seh Daeng was killed while being interviewed by an international reporter. Today's editorial in one of Bangkok's English papers is carrying the same line in reference to the axing of the vice commerce minister (for corruption), the highest-ranking political office holder ever dismissed by the prime minister. The idiom is followed by a simple meaning: 'sending a message'

[kokesaat]

" เฉือดไก่ให้ลิงดู "

Sorry about that.......it's เชือดไก่ให้ลิงดู......เชือด meaning 'to slash/to cut'

[Tod Daniels]

I recently picked up Andrew Biggs' third book in his series called ภาษาอังกฤษง่ายนิดเดียว.

In it I came across the idiomatic phrase ชาติหน้าตอนบ่าย ๆ. I thought the answer was so good I had to post it here.

Here's the question he received;

สวัสดีค่ะ คุณแอนดรูว์

ช่วยกรุณาบอกดิฉันว่า ชาตินี้ ชาติหน้า ชาติที่แล้ว ชาติหน้าตอนบ่าย ๆ จะพูดว่าอย่างไรเป็นภาษาอังกฤษ

ขอบคุณค่ะ

Moo (หนองคาย)

His answer was this;

ชาติหน้าตอนบ่ายหรือ... คงต้องแปลว่า late afternoon in my next life ใช่ไหมครับ แปลตรงตัวอย่างนี้สนุกดีสำหรับคนไทยเรา แต่ฝรั่งฟังไม่รู้เรื่องเลย..

โดยรวมฝรั่งไม่เชื่อเรื่องหลายชาติ ชาวคริสต์เชื่อว่า เกิดมาครั้งเดียว และต้องสะสมบุญตลอดชีวิต พอสิ้นชีวิตพระเจ้าประมวลว่า มีความดีมากว่าความชั่ว หรือ ความชั่วมากว่าความดีซึ่งเป็นบ่งบอกว่า จะใช้เวลานิรันดรที่สวรรค์หรือนรก

อย่างไรก็ดี ชาติ ใช้คำว่า life หรือ lifetime เช่น

Buddhists believe you spend many lifetimes learning valuable lessons.

(ชาวพุทธเชื่อว่า คุณต้องกลับมาใช้หลายชาติเพื่อสะสมบุญและความรู้สำคัญ)

ดังนั้น ชาติก่อน คือ in my last life แต่ใช้ past life ได้เหเหมือนกัน เช่น

Maybe we knew each other in out past lives.

(บางทีชาติก่อนเราได้รู้จักกัน)

Do you remember anything from your past life?

(คุณจำอะไรได้จากชาติที่แล้วไหม)

ส่วน ชาติหน้า คือ in my next life เช่น

We'll meet again in our next life.

(ชาติหน้าพบกันอีกที)

แต่ที่ข้อยกเว้นครับ นั่นคือที่ผมพูดตั้งแต่ต้น ชาติหน้าตอนบ่ายๆ ไม่ควรแปลตรงตัวครับ คำแปลที่ถูกต้องคือ NEVER หรือที่ฝรั่งใช้สำนวนว่า แม้ 1 ล้านปีก็ไม่ทำ เช่น

When are you going to fall in love with me?

(คุณจะหลงรักผมเมื่อไรล่ะ)

Never in a million years.

(ชาติหน้าตอนบ่าย ๆ)

Anyway sorry for shamelessly typin’ this right outta his book, but I'd never heard the idiom ชาติหน้าตอนบ่ย ๆ before. Thought you guys might find it of interest.

The one good thing about his books is they’re written at a low medium level and anyone with even marginal thai reading skills like myself can make their way thru them pretty well. Seeing as they explain idiomatic thai expressions in engrish, you can usually figure out new vocab you don't know by word elimination between the thai and engrish you do know.

I did have one question about the use of the ๆ character. In the idiom ชาติหน้าตอนบ่าย ๆ does the ‘repeat symbol’ mean to repeat both words like ตอนบ่าย ตอนบ่าย or do you just repeat the word บ่าย twice? Sometimes with word compounds I don’t know how much I’m supposed to repeat when I see that symbol.

Also apologies in advance if there's errors in the thai script. My desk lamp just burned out. It's tough for 'old eyes' to make out the small thai font in the book.

thanx Tod

[Peppy]

I did have one question about the use of the ๆ character. In the idiom ชาติหน้าตอนบ่าย ๆ does the ‘repeat symbol’ mean to repeat both words like ตอนบ่าย ตอนบ่าย or do you just repeat the word บ่าย twice? Sometimes with word compounds I don’t know how much I’m supposed to repeat when I see that symbol.

You just repeat บ่าย--so it's ชาติหน้าตอนบ่ายบ่าย.

I've had the same problem with not knowing how much to repeat; I guess it's just a case of copying what you hear.

[Tod Daniels]

You just repeat บ่าย--so it's ชาติหน้าตอนบ่ายบ่าย.

I've had the same problem with not knowing how much to repeat; I guess it's just a case of copying what you hear.

Thanx for that, I had never heard the phrase before, so really didn't know how much to repeat.

Asking outside my apartment gate out on the soi straightened me out very quickly. Those thai guys I drink with don't take my spoken thai mistakes all that easy, and are more than happy to correct my errant ways! That's a good thing for me because no one loses face be it speakin' engrish or thai, it's a language exchange, and a drink-fest combined. AND yes, sadly the quality of languages being exchanged goes down in proportion to the amount of alcohol we drink, but still good fun all around. What's that thai idiom for "in one ear and out the other"? Isn't it เข้าหูซ้ายทะลุหูขวา, yeah, we have that a LOT!

Thanx again.

Tod Daniels

[bannork]

An old friend who works in one of the shops in Central World was expressing her exasperation with the red shirts frequent rallies, she said- กวนน้ำให้ขุ่น at first glance it looks like it means to muddy the waters, ie confuse, distort things, but actually she said it means to not let things go, not let sleeping dogs lie, to rake up the past. She compared it to some sediment in water that will sink, leaving the water clear, but if constantly stirred it will remain on the surface. The unpleasant event is remembered and cannot disappear from view and memory.

I think the meaning is similar to ฟื้นฝอยหาตะเข็บ

An idiom meaning provoking conflict, disagreements, disunity is ยุให้รำตำให้รั่ว

And one meaning don't wash your dirty linen in public or bring problems home from work is ความในอย่านำออก ความนอกอย่านำเข้า

[bannork]

An old friend who works in one of the shops in Central World was expressing her exasperation with the red shirts frequent rallies, she said- กวนน้ำให้ขุ่น at first glance it looks like it means to muddy the waters, ie confuse, distort things, but actually she said it means to not let things go, not let sleeping dogs lie, to rake up the past. She compared it to some sediment in water that will sink, leaving the water clear, but if constantly stirred it will remain on the surface. The unpleasant event is remembered and cannot disappear from view and memory.

I think the meaning is similar to ฟื้นฝอยหาตะเข็บ

An idiom meaning provoking conflict, disagreements, disunity is ยุให้รำตำให้รั่ว

And one meaning don't wash your dirty linen in public or bring problems home from work is ความในอย่านำออก ความนอกอย่านำเข้า

A better idiom to explain what I was saying above is เขย่าไว้อย่าให้นอนก้น keep shaking the glass, don't let the sediment sink to the bottom of the glass, ie don't let the past be forgotten, keep reminding people of the bad event.

[yeno]

I bought a book only with proverbs but I liked only a few of them and I've never finished that book. It seems to me that not many Thais know the meaning of those proverbs and they're right, many of them just don't have a verbs, for example, or even resume to a single word.

I like proverbs, but in my language they're build like a normal sentence, with a subject, a verb etc. Like, for example, if I can translate this right: "The leaves won't fall far from the tree" - I think anyone can understand the meaning or can point a situation where this proverb can be used, is a statement. But when I say for example: กะลา , how many of you would guess that what I mean is something not worth the price, something that cheap that it cannot be sold or something is not worthing the price ?!?

I don't know, maybe I'm not too wise for the Thai proverbs

Btw, for those who don't know, กะลา is the coconut shell.

[tgeezer]

I bought a book only with proverbs but I liked only a few of them and I've never finished that book. It seems to me that not many Thais know the meaning of those proverbs and they're right, many of them just don't have a verbs, for example, or even resume to a single word.

I like proverbs, but in my language they're build like a normal sentence, with a subject, a verb etc. Like, for example, if I can translate this right: "The leaves won't fall far from the tree" - I think anyone can understand the meaning or can point a situation where this proverb can be used, is a statement. But when I say for example: กะลา , how many of you would guess that what I mean is something not worth the price, something that cheap that it cannot be sold or something is not worthing the price ?!?

I don't know, maybe I'm not too wise for the Thai proverbs

Btw, for those who don't know, กะลา is the coconut shell.

I tend to agree about proverbs, but only in the way that they need a knowledge of culture to understand.

The one word you quote here though is not confusing because it is in the dictionary.

I think it is unusual in that it is a noun and adjective, but since coconut shells are very common I suppose it makes sense.

The example in the dictionary uses it with another adjective; เก่ากะลา old and worthless. It would need to have some context so that you would know it wasn't a coconut shell:

ไม่มีใครอยากอยู่ที่เรือนเก่ากะลาหลังนี้ noone wants to live in this worthless old shack.

I originally had ไม้ wooden, does anyone think that ไม้ could be inserted? I was thinking of เรือนไม้เก่ากะลา Or perhaps this is not the correct use of the adjective at all.

Help appreciated.