Thai Monks Trade Gun And Theft Claims

[webfact]

Thai monks trade gun and theft claims

BANGKOK, September 22, 2011 (AFP) - Buddhist monastic life usually conjures images of serenity and peace, but monks at one Thai temple have lodged rival police complaints alleging lies, theft and threats at gunpoint.

Jirawat Pasanano said he was forced to leave his temple after two fellow monks beat him up, brandished a gun at him and demanded he quit his lucrative morning alms route in Bangkok, according to a police spokesman.

But the two accused men, Pitch Prapasaro, 26, and a monk known as Auan filed a counter-complaint.

They claim the 44-year-old Jirawat made up the gun incident to get back at Auan, who had accused him of using the temple's name to collect donations that he pocketed himself.

Auan, who is believed to be in his fifties, insisted he had no motive for wanting the alms route.

"It is totally untrue that I used a gun to intimidate him. I have poor health and stopped walking to collect alms five years ago," he told reporters.

An official at the Buddhism Protection division at the Office of National Buddhism said the case was very unusual, adding that no investigation had yet been launched into the monks' behaviour.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-09-22

[IAMSOBAD]

The Hub of B.S.

[GazR]

Who's been a bad boy then ?

[BigC]

i think that is peacefull. threaten to put someone to death with a gun. i mean u can't get more quite than death lol

[stuandchris]

Ah Buddhism, the peaceful religion, unless you are Thai

[connor6063]

Corrupt monks, Anything new?

When i became a monk some of the monks had multiple girlfriends that visited on different days. They also just sat around and smoked all day.

Edited September 22, 2011 by connor6063

[janverbeem]

The Hub of B.S.

The hub of fake budhism

[fabianfred]

Corrupt monks, Anything new?

When i became a monk some of the monks had multiple girlfriends that visited on different days. They also just sat around and smoked all day.

According to the Vinaya...if a monks has sex...he is no longer a monk...just maquerading as one...cheating the lay-people and acquiring much bad karma every minute he doesn't disrobe. Hell is guaranteed for these types.

The name of the monk who says he is too sick to go on alms-round....auan ...sounds like the Thai nickname for 'fatty'...so perhaps his illness is self-inflicted and really just laziness. Even in my temple perfectly healthy monks are too lazy to go on alms-round, prefering to sit and await offerings.

Alms-round is my favorite part of the day.... not for what I receive but for giving the people the opportunity to get some merit....even just a schoolkid who gives a nice 'Wai' earns merit...and a smile from me to see them having a correct attitude.

[geriatrickid]

Corrupt monks, Anything new?

When i became a monk some of the monks had multiple girlfriends that visited on different days. They also just sat around and smoked all day.

According to the Vinaya...if a monks has sex...he is no longer a monk...just maquerading as one...cheating the lay-people and acquiring much bad karma every minute he doesn't disrobe. Hell is guaranteed for these types.

The name of the monk who says he is too sick to go on alms-round....auan ...sounds like the Thai nickname for 'fatty'...so perhaps his illness is self-inflicted and really just laziness. Even in my temple perfectly healthy monks are too lazy to go on alms-round, prefering to sit and await offerings.

Alms-round is my favorite part of the day.... not for what I receive but for giving the people the opportunity to get some merit....even just a schoolkid who gives a nice 'Wai' earns merit...and a smile from me to see them having a correct attitude.

Your position could easily be interchanged with those that support an organized religion's postion as a means to control the populace. A correct attitude? What is that? Deference to a group of people that position themselves as VIPs to be obeyed and to be catered do? Obedience to those who abuse their positions of trust?

I am not attacking those that have taken a vow of poverty and ask in an honest manner for the support of the community. Rather this business and it is a business, that trades on the superstitions and fears of people is one of the reasons why some societies demonstrate an inability to progress .It brings to mind the European period where people would purchase an Indulgence. There are far too many insincere monks wandering about that no one dares touch for fear of having bad luck or getting in trouble. Wearing monks robes doesn't make someone good or worthy of deference. Let them live as a monk first and show that they are worthy of that deference. I would rather a child showed polite prudence than blind obedience.

[tominbkk]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

[1bbcd5]

The Hub of B.S.

[nurofiend]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

i remember after a very long drunken night in chiang mai, i gave a monk two ham and cheese 7/11 toasties during the alms as i stood outside the shop... he seemed happy with them!!

he even asked me do i have a place to stay and if i wanted to go back with them to sleep in the temple, and no i'm not a scruffy homeless looking old man who he felt sorry for..i'm 27, so i would've been around 23-24 at the time.... he must've just really liked those toasties!! haha

Edited September 23, 2011 by nurofiend

[fabianfred]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

i remember after a very long drunken night in chiang mai, i gave a monk two ham and cheese 7/11 toasties during the alms as i stood outside the shop... he seemed happy with them!!

he even asked me do i have a place to stay and if i wanted to go back with them to sleep in the temple, and no i'm not a scruffy homeless looking old man who he felt sorry for..i'm 27, so i would've been around 23-24 at the time.... he must've just really liked those toasties!! haha

I smile at everybody...not because I'm pleased at what they have donated...but to see them doing good by making merit. A monk smiling at you and inviting you to stay at a temple isn't cause to suspect him as a sex-fiend. The PC BS which has overrun Europe and the US isn't here yet fortunately, so it is still possible to smile at someone without being branded a rapist.

[fabianfred]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

Most monks take two meals a day which is OK as long as they are between dawn and noon....only the strict forest monks tend to have only one meal a day. Actually there is little difference between one big meal lasting an hour at ten O'clock and two smaller meals at 8 O'clock after alms-round and another before mid-day.

I'm sure sexual harrasment does go on, especially as you say during the temporary ordination of young novices during their summer holiday season. That doesn't imply all monks are like that....and even if they were nobody is forced to support them.

Too many Farangs get on here and start spouting BS about how the Thais shouldn't give to monks and shouldn't give so much. What business is it of yours if they have a correct understanding of the Dhamma and want to make merit....nobody forces them....we monks do not...and cannot ask for things. Westerners are notoriously stingy when it comes to giving when it gets in-your-face and personal. They are happy to send money to an anonymous large charity and feel good about themselves, but on the ground simple giving, especially when there is a hint of religion around..... another matter.

[Thaddeus]

The Saffron Mafia strikes again.

[fabianfred]

Corrupt monks, Anything new?

When i became a monk some of the monks had multiple girlfriends that visited on different days. They also just sat around and smoked all day.

According to the Vinaya...if a monks has sex...he is no longer a monk...just maquerading as one...cheating the lay-people and acquiring much bad karma every minute he doesn't disrobe. Hell is guaranteed for these types.

The name of the monk who says he is too sick to go on alms-round....auan ...sounds like the Thai nickname for 'fatty'...so perhaps his illness is self-inflicted and really just laziness. Even in my temple perfectly healthy monks are too lazy to go on alms-round, prefering to sit and await offerings.

Alms-round is my favorite part of the day.... not for what I receive but for giving the people the opportunity to get some merit....even just a schoolkid who gives a nice 'Wai' earns merit...and a smile from me to see them having a correct attitude.

Your position could easily be interchanged with those that support an organized religion's postion as a means to control the populace. A correct attitude? What is that? Deference to a group of people that position themselves as VIPs to be obeyed and to be catered do? Obedience to those who abuse their positions of trust?

I am not attacking those that have taken a vow of poverty and ask in an honest manner for the support of the community. Rather this business and it is a business, that trades on the superstitions and fears of people is one of the reasons why some societies demonstrate an inability to progress .It brings to mind the European period where people would purchase an Indulgence. There are far too many insincere monks wandering about that no one dares touch for fear of having bad luck or getting in trouble. Wearing monks robes doesn't make someone good or worthy of deference. Let them live as a monk first and show that they are worthy of that deference. I would rather a child showed polite prudence than blind obedience.

A Buddhist would understand the meaning of correct view......showing respect to those who deserve respect...monks, parents, teachers, etc. As a Western non-Buddhist I am not suprised you do not understand.

If you want a monk to be ordained for ten years and show that he can live simply and keep his morals before you decide he is worthy of your offerings....then he would die of starvation before then.

Buddhism does not control anyone...we do not threaten people with hell for not believing in us...unlike some religions. We do not even go out teaching to people, unless they request we do so.

[jimbeam1]

Corrupt monks, Anything new?

When i became a monk some of the monks had multiple girlfriends that visited on different days. They also just sat around and smoked all day.

According to the Vinaya...if a monks has sex...he is no longer a monk...just maquerading as one...cheating the lay-people and acquiring much bad karma every minute he doesn't disrobe. Hell is guaranteed for these types.

The name of the monk who says he is too sick to go on alms-round....auan ...sounds like the Thai nickname for 'fatty'...so perhaps his illness is self-inflicted and really just laziness. Even in my temple perfectly healthy monks are too lazy to go on alms-round, prefering to sit and await offerings.

Alms-round is my favorite part of the day.... not for what I receive but for giving the people the opportunity to get some merit....even just a schoolkid who gives a nice 'Wai' earns merit...and a smile from me to see them having a correct attitude.

Your position could easily be interchanged with those that support an organized religion's postion as a means to control the populace. A correct attitude? What is that? Deference to a group of people that position themselves as VIPs to be obeyed and to be catered do? Obedience to those who abuse their positions of trust?

I am not attacking those that have taken a vow of poverty and ask in an honest manner for the support of the community. Rather this business and it is a business, that trades on the superstitions and fears of people is one of the reasons why some societies demonstrate an inability to progress .It brings to mind the European period where people would purchase an Indulgence. There are far too many insincere monks wandering about that no one dares touch for fear of having bad luck or getting in trouble. Wearing monks robes doesn't make someone good or worthy of deference. Let them live as a monk first and show that they are worthy of that deference. I would rather a child showed polite prudence than blind obedience.

Well Put.

jb1

[californiabeachboy]

The bottom line is that monks are still people, most good and some, not so much. I really don't see anything about becoming a monk that changes the fundamental nature of people - it only changes the outward appearance.

[jpinx]

A Buddhist would understand the meaning of correct view......showing respect to those who deserve respect...monks, parents, teachers, etc. As a Western non-Buddhist I am not suprised you do not understand.

If you want a monk to be ordained for ten years and show that he can live simply and keep his morals before you decide he is worthy of your offerings....then he would die of starvation before then.

Buddhism does not control anyone...we do not threaten people with hell for not believing in us...unlike some religions. We do not even go out teaching to people, unless they request we do so.

True, but you assume the correctness is universal across all situations and life-styles. I love buddhism, but I dislike any organised religion for what it allows within it's hierarchy. Look at the mees of the RC church, the multiple evangelical churches in USA, etc. You appear to be a genuine person and I hope you spread acceptance and content to those you meet, but please do not expect your chosen belief to apply to everyone.:jap:

[iono]

Something that has always bothered me about alms and the making merit thing giving to the monks seems backwards....as a monk aren't you seeking to become a better person? Wouldn't it make sense for the monk to be out in the community doing for the poor, cutting wood, washing clothes, helping the elderly, there is a whole list of things that can be done to help people...giving guidance on how to be a better human with positive action seems the best way to becoming a better person with a chance of skipping reincarnation the next go around....but with all religions humanity seems to get in the way....

[Thaddeus]

Something that has always bothered me about alms and the making merit thing giving to the monks seems backwards....as a monk aren't you seeking to become a better person? Wouldn't it make sense for the monk to be out in the community doing for the poor,

Yes, but that isn't the way it works here. The local Wat operates like a bank, with one notable exception, only deposits are allowed, no withdrawals.

I prefer to make merit by feeding my dog, at least he provides a useful service and doesn't just sit there with his paw out.

[Gers1873]

Monks are humans with human failings they are not perfect and amongst thousands of monks there will be one or twop 'bad apples'.

This is no different from any religion. To criticize all monks for the actions of a few would be like saying all RC priests are paedophiles based on the actions of a some who entered the priesthood to satisfy their own sexual perversions.

Even if the OP is proven to be true this merely shows that some people pose as monks to satisfy their own greed.

For every 'fake corrupt monk' how many genuine ones are in temples on a daily basis.

[samjaidee]

Ah Buddhism, the peaceful religion, unless you are Thai

Buddhism is a peaceful philosophy regardless of where it is.

Any violence or threats of violence have nothing to do with Buddhism.

[fabianfred]

Something that has always bothered me about alms and the making merit thing giving to the monks seems backwards....as a monk aren't you seeking to become a better person? Wouldn't it make sense for the monk to be out in the community doing for the poor, cutting wood, washing clothes, helping the elderly, there is a whole list of things that can be done to help people...giving guidance on how to be a better human with positive action seems the best way to becoming a better person with a chance of skipping reincarnation the next go around....but with all religions humanity seems to get in the way....

Only rarely do we get the chance to be reborn human....only rarely does a Buddha appear and teach the true Dhamma. The true Dhamma is a gift without price, exceeding all others. Studying the Dhamma then practicing it (meditation), before going and teaching it are a monk's duties. A monk is more useful doing this than any other common kind of work or social assistance. Building schools, hospitals, feeding the poor etc. are noble, but short term....only helping people with their present day problems and suffering. Teaching people the Dhamma whereby they can understand the causes of suffering, helps them find relief now, and also can help them escape all future suffering by avoiding rebirth. A far more long term help.

Edited September 23, 2011 by fabianfred

[bankei]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

Too many Farangs get on here and start spouting BS about how the Thais shouldn't give to monks and shouldn't give so much. What business is it of yours if they have a correct understanding of the Dhamma and want to make merit....nobody forces them....we monks do not...and cannot ask for things. Westerners are notoriously stingy when it comes to giving when it gets in-your-face and personal. They are happy to send money to an anonymous large charity and feel good about themselves, but on the ground simple giving, especially when there is a hint of religion around..... another matter.

Hi Fabian

I would put it to you that is not a correct understanding of Dhamma.

Westerners are notoriously generous when it comes to helping people in need. Thais seem notoriously generous when it comes to helping themsevles (eg. by acquiring 'merit').

Plenty of monks do ask for things. One recently asked me to buy him a mobile phone. What about all those sermons where they preach how good it is to make merit?

Bankei

[jpinx]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

Too many Farangs get on here and start spouting BS about how the Thais shouldn't give to monks and shouldn't give so much. What business is it of yours if they have a correct understanding of the Dhamma and want to make merit....nobody forces them....we monks do not...and cannot ask for things. Westerners are notoriously stingy when it comes to giving when it gets in-your-face and personal. They are happy to send money to an anonymous large charity and feel good about themselves, but on the ground simple giving, especially when there is a hint of religion around..... another matter.

Wow - you really have got it very wrong. I ran a charity for some years in UK and I know exactly how generous people are there. People in Thailand are only generous when they get something back -- like merit...........

[iono]

Only rarely do we get the chance to be reborn human....only rarely does a Buddha appear and teach the true Dhamma. The true Dhamma is a gift without price, exceeding all others. Studying the Dhamma then practicing it (meditation), before going and teaching it are a monk's duties. A monk is more useful doing this than any other common kind of work or social assistance. Building schools, hospitals, feeding the poor etc. are noble, but short term....only helping people with their present day problems and suffering. Teaching people the Dhamma whereby they can understand the causes of suffering, helps them find relief now, and also can help them escape all future suffering by avoiding rebirth. A far more long term help.

So only a monk will be able to attain true enlightenment as they practice and teach the Dhama and all others will have to wait until their progression through many different manifestations before being reborn as a human again so they can then become monks and then practice and teach the Dhama.....and woe is him who is born a christian, muslim...or me.....ok all tongue and cheek...but man it all sounds a bit fuzzy...on that note my wife's dead ex-husband's father became a monk and was able to pay for his new home...her uncle Mr. Mafia became a monk and has led a very fruitful life for years.....all in all we are just humans reaching for something when we can't explain it...religion fills the void that scares us i.e. the unknown....scarey stuff noooo....

[cheshiremusicman]

Something that has always bothered me about alms and the making merit thing giving to the monks seems backwards....as a monk aren't you seeking to become a better person? Wouldn't it make sense for the monk to be out in the community doing for the poor, cutting wood, washing clothes, helping the elderly, there is a whole list of things that can be done to help people...giving guidance on how to be a better human with positive action seems the best way to becoming a better person with a chance of skipping reincarnation the next go around....but with all religions humanity seems to get in the way....

Only rarely do we get the chance to be reborn human....only rarely does a Buddha appear and teach the true Dhamma. The true Dhamma is a gift without price, exceeding all others. Studying the Dhamma then practicing it (meditation), before going and teaching it are a monk's duties. A monk is more useful doing this than any other common kind of work or social assistance. Building schools, hospitals, feeding the poor etc. are noble, but short term....only helping people with their present day problems and suffering. Teaching people the Dhamma whereby they can understand the causes of suffering, helps them find relief now, and also can help them escape all future suffering by avoiding rebirth. A far more long term help.

This is the kind of B.S. that keeps the 'Masses in their place' and always will, and has allowed the parasitical religions to live off the general populous for thousands of years through the power of retribution to the 'none believer'

If you take a young child and 'indoctrinate them' early enough you can get them to 'believe' in anything no matter how ridiculous or stupid.

Islam is the real proof of this and as a 'Religion' it just proves that you can go backwards not forwards with thinking. No child brought up in an 'Islamic' society has a chance of free thought, it is like being a caged animal with no hope of escape except death if you dare to try and cross the line into free thinking.

I do not wish to upset those people that get solace from their 'Religions',and I do respect their feelings, but I do think that the world would be a far better place without any Religions. The number of wars that have been fought (and are still being fought with even more vehemence than before) under the banner of religion have accounted for tens of millions of deaths around the world and will continue to do so.

I think that the only people who had a sensible concept of a 'diety' were the Inca's; who at least had the common sense to worship the Sun; without who's existence we would not be here (and continue to exist) in the first place.

Seems to me from what I've seen in my life that all the 'Religions' of the world all seem to (and forgive the pun) prey on the poor and uneducated. Was it Lenin who said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" - Sorry, but how true.

[ginjag]

Ah Buddhism, the peaceful religion, unless you are Thai

Buddhism is a peaceful philosophy regardless of where it is.

Any violence or threats of violence have nothing to do with Buddhism.

I'm sorry if this is off topic, but the Bkk mega probs-all involved were atheist.????

[khaowong1]

Corrupt monks, Anything new?

When i became a monk some of the monks had multiple girlfriends that visited on different days. They also just sat around and smoked all day.

According to the Vinaya...if a monks has sex...he is no longer a monk...just maquerading as one...cheating the lay-people and acquiring much bad karma every minute he doesn't disrobe. Hell is guaranteed for these types.

The name of the monk who says he is too sick to go on alms-round....auan ...sounds like the Thai nickname for 'fatty'...so perhaps his illness is self-inflicted and really just laziness. Even in my temple perfectly healthy monks are too lazy to go on alms-round, prefering to sit and await offerings.

Alms-round is my favorite part of the day.... not for what I receive but for giving the people the opportunity to get some merit....even just a schoolkid who gives a nice 'Wai' earns merit...and a smile from me to see them having a correct attitude.

I'm like you Fred. I love going on Alms-round. I love the people who come out to offer me food. I love the kids who participate with their parents. I smile and say good morning to each and everyone. And I think it makes them happy to see me. Even if I don't feel good I go. Alms-round in Bangkok must be a whole lot different than at my place. Our average daily money donation is about 50 baht. And that's on a good day. I most certainly don't go for the money.