Private Boat Owners Urged To Help Lower Level Of Chao Phraya: Flood Crisis

[chinook]

Silly people, the Thais, but we know that already. Do they ever bother with dredging?

[Chang_paarp]

I thought Thailand had a navy. Does this mean they have no ships in the navy?

[Buchholz]

I thought Thailand had a navy. Does this mean they have no ships in the navy?

Pheu Thai Party MP Ong-at Wachiraphong said they were bringing in the Navy to assist in the ship-propeller-driven flood control idea of Pheu Thai Party Science Minister and Let's Dine On Endangered Species Director Plodprasop. Article in the other paper.

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Edited September 23, 2011 by Buchholz

[rubl]

I thought Thailand had a navy. Does this mean they have no ships in the navy?

With sea-going vessels you might need to dredge the Chao Praya a bit and demolish some bridges to allow their passage. Mind you it would be nice to see the HTMS Chakri Naruebet moving past. Smallest aircraft carrier in the world, but still a draught of 6.12 metres (20.1 ft).

Edited September 23, 2011 by rubl

[thaibeachlovers]

I thought when I read the headline that they were going to fill the boats with water up river and empty them down river! LOL.

This is on a level with the statement some time ago that Thailand would not be affected by rising sea levels because it was far from melting ice at the poles!

Perhaps they are intending to start a "hub" for stupid government statements!

[phiphidon]

I thought Thailand had a navy. Does this mean they have no ships in the navy?

Pheu Thai Party MP Ong-at Wachiraphong said they were bringing in the Navy to assist in the ship-propeller-driven flood control idea of Pheu Thai Party Science Minister and Let's Dine On Endangered Species Director Plodprasop. Article in the other paper.

.

I've already explained whose idea it was Buchholz and it wasn't the PTP Science Ministers'.................or anybody else in the PTP for that matter.

[biplanebluey]

not funny really but can't help but giggle at the mind's eye pic of all the "uniforms" floundering around in muddy water holding their I-phones out of the water....

and all those extra bodies in the water making the level go up !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 24, 2011 by metisdead
Font resized.

[lexilis]

I am not a hydraulic engineer nor do I know about Chao Praya flow dynamics but I spent 10 minutes doing some simple kinetic energy calculations. Based on some very generous assumptions (like 100% efficiency) I estimated that if 30 boats could increase the velocity of a column of water corresponding to the diameter of their propellers by 1 meter per second the total kinetic energy of river flow would increase by .0000071 per cent. I am pretty sure the actual impact would be much less than this. Surely the scientists would have done some kind of calculations like this. Yes? Hello? Hello?

[farang000999]

let me guess this guy is a red shirt?

[Tanaka]

I find it difficult to believe the science minister could be this stupid.

They say a recent experiment in Noi River in Ayutthaya has shown that the propellers of the 30 boats will increase the river water speed by 20%.

They measured the water flow at 4 meters behind the tugs.

.Quote/ Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi said the 30 boats have increased the flow rate by three times./Unquote

Now he says it is 300%.

As for your remark about his brain capacity. If this science or technology minister is this clever, what do you think is the intelligence level of the other ministers?

[AleG]

I find it difficult to believe the science minister could be this stupid.

They say a recent experiment in Noi River in Ayutthaya has shown that the propellers of the 30 boats will increase the river water speed by 20%.

They measured the water flow at 4 meters behind the tugs.

.Quote/ Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi said the 30 boats have increased the flow rate by three times./Unquote

Now he says it is 300%.

As for your remark about his brain capacity. If this science or technology minister is this clever, what do you think is the intelligence level of the other ministers?

I'm reminded of PTPs promise of appointing the most qualified persons to ministerial positions, not based on political connections or special favours.

If this guy is the most qualified for heading the science ministry I shudder to think what stock the lesser candidates may have come from. I picture some candidates unable to write their names on their resume while others just chew on the crayons.

[Dag]

I have a canoe with 2 paddles I am prepared to offer to assist.

[Crushdepth]

I find it difficult to believe the science minister could be this stupid.

They say a recent experiment in Noi River in Ayutthaya has shown that the propellers of the 30 boats will increase the river water speed by 20%.

They measured the water flow at 4 meters behind the tugs.

.Quote/ Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi said the 30 boats have increased the flow rate by three times./Unquote

Now he says it is 300%.

As for your remark about his brain capacity. If this science or technology minister is this clever, what do you think is the intelligence level of the other ministers?

Of course it will be measurably faster behind the tugs. But if you measure it 50 metres downstream, will you be able to detect any difference?

I wouldn't like to speculate on your second question. Although I get a lot of amusement out of the antics of their (and I quote) "brilliant economic team"

Edited September 24, 2011 by Crushdepth

[WarpSpeed]

I find it difficult to believe the science minister could be this stupid.

They say a recent experiment in Noi River in Ayutthaya has shown that the propellers of the 30 boats will increase the river water speed by 20%.

They measured the water flow at 4 meters behind the tugs.

.Quote/ Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi said the 30 boats have increased the flow rate by three times./Unquote

Now he says it is 300%.

As for your remark about his brain capacity. If this science or technology minister is this clever, what do you think is the intelligence level of the other ministers?

Of course it will be measurably faster behind the tugs. But if you measure it 50 metres downstream, will you be able to detect any difference?

I wouldn't like to speculate on your second question. Although I get a lot of amusement out of the antics of their (and I quote) "brilliant economic team"

Well this has been discussed in another thread and the qualified conclusion is yes, as it creates a "bubble" of water (as another poster succinctly put it) behind the tugs that is forced by momentum and will continue downstream backed up by more water as long as the tugs are running, as the water will not flow back upstream given the downstream natural momentum of the rivers' flow..

Edited September 24, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[TAWP]

1) No-one is claiming the basic idea doesn't work (one poster seemingly tried to shut other posters up by some vague allusion to LM), as a concept, aka propellers will push on the water downstream.

2) The current number of boats and the number of boats they will manage to gather will be far-far-far from enough to have any major impact. An afternoon of rain [or lack off] will have much more impact.

3) A real solution would be prevention and having proper counter-measures when that prevention-plan eventually fail - not to call on private citizens, sporting the smallest boats, to 'help out'...and offer to pay the gas-money.

[Buchholz]

They can't really believe that, can they?

I would humbly suggest the the esteemed science minister be relieved of his post ASAP and put in charge of paper clips, after completing his treatment at the local mental hospital...

No it doesnt work.

He's not giving up on his idea.

.

[Buchholz]

Government Seeks Boat Owners' Help to Drain Run-offs

The Science and Technology Minister asks boat owners to help the government expedite its efforts of draining run-offs in the swelling Chao Phraya River into the sea before the middle of this month when the hide tide hits.

Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Surasawadi said large-size boats anchored in the Chao Phraya River in Bangkok could help boats provided by the government to speed up the drainage of water into the sea.

By getting their engines running while anchored, the boats are used to push water out into sea at a faster pace.

Plodprasop stated water should be drained in the next ten days before the high-tide period, which will take place between October 17 and 18.

Moreover, four more storms are expected to hit at the time.

Plodprasop stated any boat owners wanting to join the government's effort can directly call his mobile phone number at 081-496-6644 to give their information on name, home address and the size and type of their vessels.

He said the government will pay for petrol for boats joining the effort.

On the suggested construction of more large dams to handle flooding in short-term, the minister said the matter is still being studied and needs more time and thorough consideration.

-- Tan Network 2011-10-05

[rogerdee123]

About 20 years ago a guy ran for mayor of Bangkok and his name was "Smith Smithian" ... no kidding. This is not a joke.

He had several new ideas to solve the major problems in Bangkok.

His solution to the flooding problem was .... "To dig a big hole"

Also his innovative solution to Bangkok's traffic problem was ... "to make all the traffic lights green"

There were more ...... my memory fades ....

I just tried to google him but unfortunately he didn't rate a google entry.

[ParadiseLost]

This is one for Mythbusters...

[sfbandung]

The only real way to increase water flow is to increase its capacity to flow by making the river deeper and wider at the mouth. I'm not sure this is even feasible. Does it empty into deep water at the Gulf of Thailand. Is there silt build up occurring at the mouth?

[Buchholz]

The only real way to increase water flow is to increase its capacity to flow by making the river deeper and wider at the mouth. I'm not sure this is even feasible. Does it empty into deep water at the Gulf of Thailand. Is there silt build up occurring at the mouth?

"Is there silt build up occurring at the mouth?"

Are you talking about Science Minister Plodprasop?

[sfbandung]

The only real way to increase water flow is to increase its capacity to flow by making the river deeper and wider at the mouth. I'm not sure this is even feasible. Does it empty into deep water at the Gulf of Thailand. Is there silt build up occurring at the mouth?

"Is there silt build up occurring at the mouth?"

Are you talking about Science Minister Plodprasop?

Ha ha! Very quick for this hour of the morning. I think in the case of the honorable (?) minister there's some very arid landscape just behind and upwards of the mouth.

[whybother]

The Science and Technology Minister asks boat owners to help the government expedite its efforts of draining run-offs in the swelling Chao Phraya River into the sea before the middle of this month when the hide tide hits.

Once the water gets drained, who gets the boats out?

[Buchholz]

The Science and Technology Minister asks boat owners to help the government expedite its efforts of draining run-offs in the swelling Chao Phraya River into the sea before the middle of this month when the hide tide hits.

Once the water gets drained, who gets the boats out?

They can call Joe's Towing Service

[steveromagnino]

Let's face it, the idea of using boats is the thought process of a 3 year old. Not entirely surprising in this case.

the rate of flow is

Q = AV

where V = a fucntion of the radius of the area and the slope of the water surface

A = cross sectional area

The reason flooding occurs at this time of year especially late afternoon

- tide is high so the rate of flow slightly decreases (you cannot have the river level lower than the sea)

- the amount of water coming from the north is massively increased and subject to spillover from the dams

Digging out the river mouth does little; the delta is already very wide and is not the sticking point. Channel modification upstream may help increase velocity, but anyhow that's not possible in days or weeks, that is a yearly exercise. It might help velocity slightly due to reducing friction, but anyhow the prevailing SW monsoon will slowly silt up any channel as a function of nature anyhow.

The problem anyhow is not primarily a flow issue, it's a volume issue. Gravity takes care of the flow rate already; the higher the water level the faster it flows (as a result of the slope S in the manning equation).

Adding boats to push the water away does virtually nothing except waste a ton of fuel; the reason the water isn't flowing away is because the water level is already exgtremely high and so the gates are staying shut upsteam; if you run the engines, millions of them, they still won't be as efficient as a pump and running the water at high pressure...which the BMA has installed and been running; and is helping substantially.

PT basically have no solutions for this, and cannot solve it with some 1 day action (despite their press attempts to do so); I am not sure many governments could; at least they could be doing a lot to support the populace. it was embarrassing seeing their giveaway last week; a queue of about 30 people cycling round and round picking up rice and suppies....solely for the cameras.

As always, i standby for that call up when the PT leadership admit they know nothing and ask or my generous guidance :-) I am well versed in consulting with them, having also taught 5-7 year olds basic concepts of science and economics 5555555 two subjects that are obviously not part of the red shirt university curriculum.

[shunima]

Now that we have the mobile phone number of our dear Science Minister, should we send him these links for a better understanding? :-)

http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/geol204/riversystems.htm

http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/geol204/riverflooding.htm

[kurnell]

I propose a better idea. Get all the girls from Lolitas, Kangaroo, Star of Love etc, take them to the mouth of the river, give them straws and get them to suck the water downstream.

[steveromagnino]

I propose a better idea. Get all the girls from Lolitas, Kangaroo, Star of Love etc, take them to the mouth of the river, give them straws and get them to suck the water downstream.

ROTFLOL

Genius!!!

Although naturally I don't know what any of these places are..... ;-)

[Buchholz]

Now that we have the mobile phone number of our dear Science Minister, should we send him these links for a better understanding? :-)

http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/geol204/riversystems.htm

http://www.tulane.edu/~sanelson/geol204/riverflooding.htm

Does he have a Twitter account?

.

[TackyToo]

Government Seeks Boat Owners' Help to Drain Run-offs

The Science and Technology Minister asks boat owners to help the government expedite its efforts of draining run-offs in the swelling Chao Phraya River into the sea before the middle of this month when the hide tide hits.

Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop Surasawadi said large-size boats anchored in the Chao Phraya River in Bangkok could help boats provided by the government to speed up the drainage of water into the sea.

By getting their engines running while anchored, the boats are used to push water out into sea at a faster pace.

Plodprasop stated water should be drained in the next ten days before the high-tide period, which will take place between October 17 and 18.

Moreover, four more storms are expected to hit at the time.

Plodprasop stated any boat owners wanting to join the government's effort can directly call his mobile phone number at 081-496-6644 to give their information on name, home address and the size and type of their vessels.

He said the government will pay for petrol for boats joining the effort.

On the suggested construction of more large dams to handle flooding in short-term, the minister said the matter is still being studied and needs more time and thorough consideration.

-- Tan Network 2011-10-05

What causes all the floods? The rain! Here is another Thai-style Einstein-Award solution to prevent rain: Why not order all aircrafts in Thailand (propeller & jet) in front of low pressure areas- give full throttle and blow away the clouds?

And no,- I don't hold a post of a Science and Technology Minister!