Credit Blacklists

[Saghalien]

Hi

About two years ago my Thai girlfriend got involved with a direct selling company called Gold U Gold. Also at the same time she bought a small car on credit to help her get around on business. It was a Chery (Chinese) she bought. 69.000 Baht down (8%) and 6,800 Baht a month for six years. I tried to dissuade her as it was obviously a pyramids scheme and I could not see Gold U Gold continuing to grow as it was for six more years. Well she never listened to me (would you believe that) and the car went back to where it came from about a week ago.

All fair enough and no problem. But now she reckons she is on a credit blacklist and can not leave the country. I was hoping to take her to the UK next summer with our two kids to see my 82 year old Mum for one last time.

Now I don't know how credit works in Thailand (or the UK for that matter). I can see that Finance companies would get together and have a "blacklist" but why would the immigration people have this blacklist and stop people leaving the country ? Also I can not see the Finance company or the Chery distribution company being out of pocket. I would have thought they had both made a small profit from the whole thing.

Does anybody have any comments on the above ? I tend to think that my girlfriend has been given a bit of bad information, but I wouldn't like for us all to be heading to the UK on holiday, only for the Misses to be apprehended at immigration. Just a little bit stressful ...

[Richard4849]

Not true.

[Spoonman]

"69.000 Baht down (8%)" wowzers thats like 800k for a nasty chinese shitbox, as for the rest of it, I reckon she is telling porky pies there as well.

[robblok]

Is she not paying off her debt then ? If not she might be on a blacklist but im not sure it would apply to leaving the country.

[Dave9000]

It is inconceivable that debts could prevent someone from travelling overseas. The finance company cannot take someone's passport. As the car was only relinquished a week ago, there will be no court judgement as yet and even then, it would be unusual for such a judgement to have any effect upon a person's freedom to cross borders. The one thing which should be considered is that computer systems do not recognise geography and your girlfriend will not be able to avoid the debt merely by changing locations.

Irrespective of whether or not the vendors and their finance company have made a profit, they will want repayment of the full amount. That is their right under the terms of the contract which your friend will have signed. She owes the money and if she tries to avoid payment, she will have a crappy life no matter where she resides. The good news is that finance companies respond well to communication. If they are kept informed of your friend's whereabouts and, as long as you make an offer of payment (even if the amount is significantly less than the original repayments scheduled under the contract) they will leave her largely alone. It will be wise to try to get them to commit to a total sum of indebtedness, as this will effectively prevent the continued accumulation of interest.

The alternative is to redeem the vehicle and sell it, and use the sale price to defray, in part or in full, the finance company's debt. If you allow the finance company to sell the car on your behalf (which will happen unless you redeem it) they will sell it without much consideration of the return and will, in the meantime, rack up a hefty 'administration' bill for you to pay; and again, all this will be covered and will have been agreed to by your girlfriend when she signed the original contract.

The fact is that when you deal with finance companies, you will always be severely dealt with if you default. The wise thing to do is to not default, pay the arrears,sell the car and make an arrangement for the repayment of the balance. Then you can both get on and live a happy life knowing that no representative of the XYZ finance company is going to knock on your door in Bangkok, London or Ooodnagalahbi. As for a credit 'black list'; what happens is that there is a central reporting agency which is paid for in part by all contributing finance companies. They will report any overdue payments, late payments, defaults etc and, until the debt is cleared, the details remain available to all members of the agency with a flagged warning. That warning will disappear along with the debt, but the history will remain available and will resurface with each successive finance application. This will not necessarily prevent her from getting finance in the future, but it will mean that she will pay a higher rate of interest as she will be seen, initially at least, as a high risk investment.

By my rough computation, you will owe approximately 245,000bht. (60 x 6,800 + 69,000deposit, less paid 24 x 6,800). A 2 year old car of any sort, in good condition and with papers, should sell for 245k. But, even if you have say three months arrears, and sell the car for only 200k, your total idebtedness to the finance company will only be about 65k after the sale. Ask them for time to pay and there should be no problem.....

That's the theory anyhow!

Edited September 23, 2011 by Dave9000

[Soutpeel]

If its purely a civil case then they can't stop her leaving the country, however if in the business dealing she has also comitted a criminal act, ie fraud (passing a bad cheque for example) and there is a case before the BiB, she could very well be prevented from leaving the country, but this would have nothing to do with a debtors blacklist per se.

[PattayaParent]

"69.000 Baht down (8%)" wowzers thats like 800k for a nasty chinese shitbox, as for the rest of it, I reckon she is telling porky pies there as well.

Maybe the OPs bad maths as the total repayment over 6 years is 489,600 plus the deposit of 69,000 makes a total price of 558,600 of which the finance company probably makes 40%.

[Richard4849]

Correct: no chance of immigration black list based on a civil matter. If your lady has a warrant out for her arrest on a matter of a criminal nature -- or she is out on bail awaiting trial -- different story altogether.

How sure are you that she is being completely open with you about her situation?

[trevorg]

"69.000 Baht down (8%)" wowzers thats like 800k for a nasty chinese shitbox, as for the rest of it, I reckon she is telling porky pies there as well.

Maybe the OPs bad maths as the total repayment over 6 years is 489,600 plus the deposit of 69,000 makes a total price of 558,600 of which the finance company probably makes 40%.

Dave9000's maths aren't much better 6 years is 72 months and by my reckoning she still owes 326,400.

I haven't borrowed money from a finance company but my stepson did for a motorbike and then couldn't afford the repayments. From his experience, there is no 'discount' for paying off early and by returning the vehicle, they'll sell it off for a nominal amount (with an admin charge) and you'll still owe them a load of money and have no vehicle. Better to try and sell privately and continue to pay your monthly instalments. Though this may not be possible if you don't have the required paperwork. All of this would have been in the contract.

But I agree with the other posters, she should attempt to make arrangements repay the debt and this issue should not affect her ability to leave the country.

[Mirth]

It's not blacklist, just watchlist. I asked my wife, she said it's true if it's a finance company. Immi are paid by finance companies to watch out for and detain any person/s who are on their watchlist. She won't go to prison, they just detain her till the finance company ppl turn up. After that, it's up to the agreement made but by then, she would have missed her flight already.

[Dave9000]

My maths may not tabulate according to 72 x 6,800. However, if you take into account the rebate for interest (which I assume is where the 8% figure comes from) you will find the current payout, providing the figures cited by the original poster are correct, will be almost right on the money. If however, you run the debt full-term, the total sum payable will be closer to your estimate. Whether there is a discount for paying the debt early depends upon one thing alone. That is whether the finance was granted under hire purchase or personal loan. If it was hire purchase, then it says a lot about the original credit-worthiness of the girlfriend....and the step-son.

"69.000 Baht down (8%)" wowzers thats like 800k for a nasty chinese shitbox, as for the rest of it, I reckon she is telling porky pies there as well.

Maybe the OPs bad maths as the total repayment over 6 years is 489,600 plus the deposit of 69,000 makes a total price of 558,600 of which the finance company probably makes 40%.

Dave9000's maths aren't much better 6 years is 72 months and by my reckoning she still owes 326,400.

I haven't borrowed money from a finance company but my stepson did for a motorbike and then couldn't afford the repayments. From his experience, there is no 'discount' for paying off early and by returning the vehicle, they'll sell it off for a nominal amount (with an admin charge) and you'll still owe them a load of money and have no vehicle. Better to try and sell privately and continue to pay your monthly instalments. Though this may not be possible if you don't have the required paperwork. All of this would have been in the contract.

But I agree with the other posters, she should attempt to make arrangements repay the debt and this issue should not affect her ability to leave the country.

[Sharp]

As to be seen clearing or cleared the dept

Bit me in the ass before

[trevorg]

My maths may not tabulate according to 72 x 6,800. However, if you take into account the rebate for interest (which I assume is where the 8% figure comes from) you will find the current payout, providing the figures cited by the original poster are correct, will be almost right on the money. If however, you run the debt full-term, the total sum payable will be closer to your estimate. Whether there is a discount for paying the debt early depends upon one thing alone. That is whether the finance was granted under hire purchase or personal loan. If it was hire purchase, then it says a lot about the original credit-worthiness of the girlfriend....and the step-son.

"69.000 Baht down (8%)" wowzers thats like 800k for a nasty chinese shitbox, as for the rest of it, I reckon she is telling porky pies there as well.

Maybe the OPs bad maths as the total repayment over 6 years is 489,600 plus the deposit of 69,000 makes a total price of 558,600 of which the finance company probably makes 40%.

Dave9000's maths aren't much better 6 years is 72 months and by my reckoning she still owes 326,400.

I haven't borrowed money from a finance company but my stepson did for a motorbike and then couldn't afford the repayments. From his experience, there is no 'discount' for paying off early and by returning the vehicle, they'll sell it off for a nominal amount (with an admin charge) and you'll still owe them a load of money and have no vehicle. Better to try and sell privately and continue to pay your monthly instalments. Though this may not be possible if you don't have the required paperwork. All of this would have been in the contract.

But I agree with the other posters, she should attempt to make arrangements repay the debt and this issue should not affect her ability to leave the country.

Agree completely Dave, HP, not 100% sure (as I've never done it), but usually when you buy a vehicle on 'tick' the seller offers an HP deal from a finance company over a fixed term, not a loan. I also said it would be written in her contract/ agreement. You assumed a loan and I assumed HP. I apologise for criticising your maths, we just made different assumptions as neither of us had the full story!

[meatboy]

we cleared a debt for a family member,there is no rebate on interest for early payment,the full amount must be paid and any missed payments interest will be added again.so if the rate is8% missed payments will be at least 16%int.a lot of finance firms sell the debt and i know you dont want these people chaseing you.