Enter Before The Xth ?

[swisstouristpattaya]

ok, i go a TR visa stating enter before the 30th april 2012?

can I enter thailand the 30th april? or should i enter the 29th.

[david555]

before

[lopburi3]

I have not seen any report in the last decade of people not being allowed to enter on the 30th in such cases. It appears to be unfortunate wording rather than intent but to be 100% I would still recommend arrival the day before as it reads in English - I have had it pointed out to me in the past by Immigration Officer so some did read it that way. But I suspect so many travelers just read it as the end of the 30th that they no longer will try to enforce.

[Briggsy]

Thanks, Lopburi3. I also wondered about this.

[david555]

I have not seen any report in the last decade of people not being allowed to enter on the 30th in such cases. It appears to be unfortunate wording rather than intent but to be 100% I would still recommend arrival the day before as it reads in English - I have had it pointed out to me in the past by Immigration Officer so some did read it that way. But I suspect so many travelers just read it as the end of the 30th that they no longer will try to enforce.

Would you recommend this also by visa run multiple / double entry to do for activation an entry in the present" visa climate", you always advise to activate last entry BEFORE "use before date "

However , i could understand with a delaying flight they could consider ....if schedule is narrow to expiring date

[lopburi3]

Yes I would always try to allow several days as travel can go array and people do get sick so be a prepared 'scout'.

[david555]

Yes I would always try to allow several days as travel can go array and people do get sick so be a prepared 'scout'.

and visarun vans can break down , or night before to late out ..., or even your clock can get down by electrical breakdown (happens often at night...) or they simply forget you.....; ( never happened to me as "good tours" ring night before and 2à minutes before pickup they are coming .:jap:

Those reasons let me always do my visa run 1 day early , so also booked my next trip Flight Airasia to PP 29 feb 2012 as my visa date ends 1 march

no trust " Murphy & Laws "

[lopburi3]

Perhaps someone could suggest this be one of the questions for new Immigration Commisioner and that perhaps it could be changed to "use by" as is indicted on packagages and well known by most consumers.

A "Use-By" date is the last date recommended for the use of the product while at peak quality.

[david555]

Perhaps someone could suggest this be one of the questions for new Immigration Commisioner and that perhaps it could be changed to "use by" as is indicted on packagages and well known by most consumers.

A "Use-By" date is the last date recommended for the use of the product while at peak quality.

i know you are refering to "use best by " but "before is BEFORE "and visa is no food and can / would / could strictly be used like that , never forget they are bureacrats ......, how many be already instructed to go back to bank as they like bankstatement same day for retirement exstensions....!!

it is at the dicretion from the Offic.......;and so on the Thai magical stick to reward or to punish T.I.T.

[asdecas]

How much clearer does it have to be? Before means before. Is 30th April before 30th April?

Sheesh!

[visarunner]

The Royal Thai Embassies use 2 different kind of wordings.

The printed sticker issued by most Embassies says ENTER BEFORE, the Consulate with a rubberstamp use MUST BE UTILIZED BY.

Current practice is that Thai Immigration Officials will accept the visa if OP enter on 30th April.

May be the wording should change to ENTER ON/BEFORE.

[lopburi3]

How much clearer does it have to be? Before means before. Is 30th April before 30th April?

Sheesh!

As has been pointed out that is not what it seems to mean so that is the issue - as well as not all English second language speakers would be able to make the distinction even if it did. Normally when a date is printed the time is to the end of that date and most visitors will assume that to be the case - and in practice Immigration allows that.

[david555]

How much clearer does it have to be? Before means before. Is 30th April before 30th April?

Sheesh!

As has been pointed out that is not what it seems to mean so that is the issue - as well as not all English second language speakers would be able to make the distinction even if it did. Normally when a date is printed the time is to the end of that date and most visitors will assume that to be the case - and in practice Immigration allows that.

it is easy tofind out the final conclusion ....... just enter on the date after "use before" :jap: , and do not whine after if...... !

pS ; i would call this a" Russian roulette visa"

Edited September 25, 2011 by david555

[moe666]

Why take a chance how many people have cut it close and came up short and then wonder what happen. As that old saying goes why take a chance

[daiwill60]

Surely it would be easier and more clear to just state USE BEFORE THE END OF THE DAY 30th of month X , to save any confusion .

After all if my visa gives me 90 days, then i expect 90 days , otherwise it isn't a 90 day visa, it is an 87/88/89 day visa.

Edited September 25, 2011 by daiwill60

[ljerams]

Visas dates and periods allowed by the Immigration Dept. have always been the full period of 30 days, 90 days and whatsoever.

Date of entry being the first day. Hence, count the period you are given from day one and you will be legal.

It's worth remembering that there are various inaccuracies with the English translations but the actual rules must be applied as written in the Thai language.

[lopburi3]

Flame removed.

[ljerams]

Thank you Lopburi.

If the flame was concerning my post, the Writer clearly didn't know or understand the basics of Thai Law

[ROMANOBA]

They write BEFORE, they mean NOT LATER THAN.Do not forget 99 percent of officials at Immigration do not speak english ( aside from a few super basic words), so they do not even read the word' BEFORE'.What counts is the NUMBER written on the visa, if it's 30 and you come in/out on 30 it's fine to them. If you try to follow the letter of the immigration instructions written in english you will find hundreds of contradictions,incongruities, and plane english mistakes.Tjis is why tons of questions arise around matters which should be simple and easy....Actually it's humiliating for us, foreigners, to have to TRY to understand what they mean...It's NOT only a questiion of language, if you go to Cambogia or Laos rules are simple and simply understandable, and their english is not better than here in Thailand....

before

[jobsworth]

This is an excellent thread and I am so glad to have found it.

I was staying in Koh Kong in Cambodia on February 22nd 2011

and my non-o visa for Thailand said:-

"This visa must be utilized before 23 February 2011

if passport remains valid."

which I took to mean that I could enter Thailand on February 23rd 2011.

Out of curiosity I telephoned to Lucky Motorcycles in Phnom Penh

who are my experts on visa matters

who said NO that I would not be able to use my visa on February 23rd 2011.

So naturally I made a rush for the border and "utilized my non-o visa".

I then asked the immigration officer this very question with a little Thai and a little English.

He seemed to confirm that it could not be used on February 23rd 2011.

The wording is a little ambiguous especially since it has been translated from the original Thai.

English people do not use the word UTILIZE.

A previous non-o visa stated "ENTER BEFORE DD-mmm-YYYY" which was very clear.

[david555]

This is an excellent thread and I am so glad to have found it.

I was staying in Koh Kong in Cambodia on February 22nd 2011

and my non-o visa for Thailand said:-

"This visa must be utilized before 23 February 2011

if passport remains valid."

which I took to mean that I could enter Thailand on February 23rd 2011.

Out of curiosity I telephoned to Lucky Motorcycles in Phnom Penh

who are my experts on visa matters

who said NO that I would not be able to use my visa on February 23rd 2011.

So naturally I made a rush for the border and "utilized my non-o visa".

I then asked the immigration officer this very question with a little Thai and a little English.

He seemed to confirm that it could not be used on February 23rd 2011.

The wording is a little ambiguous especially since it has been translated from the original Thai.

English people do not use the word UTILIZE.

A previous non-o visa stated "ENTER BEFORE DD-mmm-YYYY" which was very clear.

my latest Thai Visa in consulate cambodia also used the statement "'enter BEFORE "

about your statement English does not use the word UTILIZE ...........maybe he reason for them to be so manny overstaying (just joking ...... no flaming

Cambodia E visa use the words: "visa expiry date"

Edited September 25, 2011 by david555

[ljerams]

As I stated earlier the period on the Visa is inclusive of the day of entry, day one. Hence a 90 day period starts on day 1 and ends on day 90.

But if you are traveling by road or train you still have to cross the Border not later than the 90th day.

Hope that helps.

[daiwill60]

Today's escapade to Kohn Kaen Visa / Immigration office.

On the 20th March I entered Thailand with a Non Imm B Multiple visa with a view o begin teaching here.

I counted my 90days and reported a couple of days prior to the 90 days counted by myself, no problem there. I had started my job in a school by now and the wife came with me to the Immigration office. Where upon i was old that as i was not yet in receipt of my Work Permit they could not give me 90 days report and would only give me 60 days as i was married to a Thai. 1900 bht please sir, OK Fair enough Guv,i'll get my 90 days next time when i have my WPermit, see you then Khop Khun Krap.

Reported in prior to my 60 days running out only to be told that as the University which employs me in a Satit school had only given me a contract to 30 Sept, (which will then be renewed with a new 1 year contract as they bring all farang employees in line with each other at the same time for contracts), i can only have 50 days until 30th Sept, 1900bht please, Ok fair enough, I'll have my new contract by then and at last we can get things straightened out.

So back i go today, two days early, 1 year contract in hand and new 1 year WPermit, this should be simple today, but then the TIT syndrome resurfaced.

Sorry Sir but you don't have a Teachers licence so we cannot give you a 1 year extension visa.

But I work for University I don't need one .

Ah yes but you are working in a school there .

Yes and I was when you stamped my extension last time when i bought my work permit.

( blank look shrugged shoulders) sorry you need teacher cert if you work in school blah blah.

ok can i have 90 day report now that I have new work permit.

No you need teacher certificate and 90 day reports only given on 1 year extension visas .

Ok what can i do then? , you can have 60 day extension

you can have 60 day extension if you come back here WITH YOUR WIFE on or before 30th September ( the day stamped in passport by the way), or you can use your multiple entry B and go out of country for 1 day then come back into Thailand with 90 day stamp in your passport.

Oh, I happen to have my wifes passport with me and her Ta bien Baan book will that be ok?

No, she must be here in person then we can give you 60 day stamp and that will be ANOTHER 1900 bht when you come back, this will give you time to apply for teachers licence, and once you have REGISTERED AN APPLICATION for a licence ( which is valid for two years, for you to have to do the test) you can come back here and we will give you the 1 year extension visa, and that will be another 1900 bht thanks.

So Basically i have been working in a school for the best part of 5 months now without a work permit initially, and am now being told that i did need a teacher licence as well, in spite of the fact that the Immigration has been to see the people responsible for staff paperwork at the University in question, and nobody bothered to discuss licences for the element of staff that work in the school section of the aforementioned University and the fact that i have ben to immigration twice and nothing hasbeen mentioned.

Also why was i led to believe that, had i had a work permit the first time i visited the office i would have had a 90 day report not a 60 , only to be told today that that would not have been the case as that is nothing to with my multiple entry B visa , which is purely to go in and out of Thaialnd, and that it is because i am married to a thai that i have had a 60 day stamp, ???? Does this mean that when my B visa runs out i can just keep going back for a 60 day report with no further visa requirement because i am married to a Thai????????

What can one say, apart from TIT

there are a few questions for the new immigration minister to be asked here i think.

,

[lopburi3]

There is no 90 day reporting for those on visa entry so that is first mistake. You should have departed Thailand and returned for a new 90 day stay. What you received was a 60 day extension based on marriage as you did not qualify for employment extension of stay.

Instead of leaving returning for a new 90 day stay you tried again but because of no contract supporting a one year extension received only for the remaining time on your contract.

Now you return again rather than making a quick exit/return (no need to stay out of country more that a minute) to find you do not have the required license to teach (believe first year they allow exemption) and are properly advised exit/return for 90 days or bring wife again (which is not normally allowed) for a new 60 day extension. That requires proof of visiting wife but you object to proving that with wife as everyone has to do for that extension (which I point out again is never issued back-to-back to normal applicants).

So Basically i have been working in a school for the best part of 5 months now without a work permit initially.

Which is not legal (even if common).

90 day address reports are filing a TM.47 form and start 90 days after you apply for your first extension of stay (date you applied for that 60 days). If you depart Thailand it starts again on day of entry. It has nothing to do with stay in Thailand.

[daiwill60]

There is no 90 day reporting for those on visa entry so that is first mistake. You should have departed Thailand and returned for a new 90 day stay. What you received was a 60 day extension based on marriage as you did not qualify for employment extension of stay.

Instead of leaving returning for a new 90 day stay you tried again but because of no contract supporting a one year extension received only for the remaining time on your contract.

Now you return again rather than making a quick exit/return (no need to stay out of country more that a minute) to find you do not have the required license to teach (believe first year they allow exemption) and are properly advised exit/return for 90 days or bring wife again (which is not normally allowed) for a new 60 day extension. That requires proof of visiting wife but you object to proving that with wife as everyone has to do for that extension (which I point out again is never issued back-to-back to normal applicants).

So Basically i have been working in a school for the best part of 5 months now without a work permit initially.

Which is not legal (even if common).

90 day address reports are filing a TM.47 form and start 90 days after you apply for your first extension of stay (date you applied for that 60 days). If you depart Thailand it starts again on day of entry. It has nothing to do with stay in Thailand.

Thanks Lopburi for clarifying what i thought was total lack of communiation on part of Immigration.

I was always under the impression on my arrival over here that i had to get out and in every 90 days too.

However i do think that the main problem here is the lack of coherent communication, regarding requirements, between myself, the dept's of the university responsible for over seeing our paperwork. and their communications with immigration office, who actually came to the university to discuss with the said staff and inform them of their requirements, and by the sound of it failed to discuss the farang teachers working in the school section of the university.

These ongoing problems have also been combined with the farcical time it takes the aforementioned Uni to get contracts and work permits organised for the staff they employ (upto 2 months to get a contract under ones nose) and subsequent misinformation given by people who have everything in order and had advsed me that i did not need to leave the country once i had a work permit and a contract. The University backed this up with a statement to me that although i didnt have a permit the letter they wrote to immigration, for me to take on my first visit, would be ok as they had spoken to someone there and i should just show them the paperwork they gave me. MMMMMMM!!!