Getting Fired And Severance Pay

[racyrick]

Need some help. I am a foreigner working for a company legally with a work permit etc. for over 1 1/2 years.

When I started, and still to this day, they have no probation period, no standard operating procedures, etc.

My question is, if they fire me, am I still entitled to the 3 months of my salary as severance?

I have no employment contract, but I do have a paper showing the guarantee of my salary that I used to try and get credit cards and for immigration for my extension of visa based on my marriage to a Thai.

Thanks for your help.

[jonclark]

I'd suggest you accept it and chalk it up to experience as if you peruse it you could leave yourself and your 'working life ' open to further scrutiny. Without a contract they have got you by the knackers.

Hope this helps

edit - misread the original post

Edited September 26, 2011 by jonclark

[Soutpeel]

If you are fired for specific "offenses" you will not receive severance, but if the company lets you go ie makes you redundant then yes, you are entitled to severance pay per standard Thai labour law T&C's

[racyrick]

If you are fired for specific "offenses" you will not receive severance, but if the company lets you go ie makes you redundant then yes, you are entitled to severance pay per standard Thai labour law T&C's

Thanks, it would be a redundancy issue if it happens.

How soon after they make me redundant do they have to pay my severance?

Thanks again

[Soutpeel]

If you are fired for specific "offenses" you will not receive severance, but if the company lets you go ie makes you redundant then yes, you are entitled to severance pay per standard Thai labour law T&C's

Thanks, it would be a redundancy issue if it happens.

How soon after they make me redundant do they have to pay my severance?

Thanks again

in theroy it should be paid the last day of work with your last salary, and to prompt the next question, if you have problems getting your severance, you need to talk to the department of labour who issued your WP...

Edited September 26, 2011 by Soutpeel

[PattayaParent]

Are you sure it's a lump sum 3 months severance?

I thought it is 1 month per year worked.

[Soutpeel]

Are you sure it's a lump sum 3 months severance?

I thought it is 1 month per year worked.

He will not get 3 months, it will be 1 month + pro-rata... to get the full 3 months you are correct.... 3 years, my mistake, didnt read his OP correctly.

[jonclark]

If you are fired for specific "offenses" you will not receive severance, but if the company lets you go ie makes you redundant then yes, you are entitled to severance pay per standard Thai labour law T&C's

Thanks, it would be a redundancy issue if it happens.

How soon after they make me redundant do they have to pay my severance?

Thanks again

Just playing devils advocate here, as I'm sure these questions would be asked by a labour tribunal.

If you don't have an employment contract, prove they have sacked you or made you redundant as opposed to you simply having finished your verbally agreed working period (which is what the company might cynically turn around and do) . Remember the onus is on you to show you have been unfairly sacked.

[FritsSikkink]

Without the contract i don't give you much chance to get anything.

[chunktal]

Are you sure it's a lump sum 3 months severance?

I thought it is 1 month per year worked.

He will not get 3 months, it will be 1 month + pro-rata... to get the full 3 months you are correct.... 3 years, my mistake, didnt read his OP correctly.

This may help if you can prove you worked there. From the Labour Protection Act B.E. 2541 (A.D 1998) so not sure if there is a more up to date version but this is the one I have.

Chapter 11 - Severence Pay.

Nothing in it about pro-rata, Section 118 (3) employed 1 year to 3 years shall be entitled to a 90 day payment equivalent to the last rate of pay.

I scanned it but it was too big a file to attach, I'll try again in a bit for you.

[PattayaParent]

Severance pay is not related to unfair dismissal.

It is paid on completion of contract.

[Soutpeel]

Without the contract i don't give you much chance to get anything.

The contract per se is irrelevant, as the OP can prove he has worked for the company via payslips and seeing as he has a valid WP the labour office can see he has paid tax/social security and has worked more than 12 months for the company, therefore the company cannot say he was working on a fixed 12 month contract and is not eligble for severance.

If the company decides not to renew his "contract" with the company they will be required to pay severance per the standard T&C's laid down in the labour act.

[FritsSikkink]

http://www.aseanhrmech.org/downloads/thailand-Labour_Protection_Act_of_1998.pdf

[FritsSikkink]

Without the contract i don't give you much chance to get anything.

The contract per se is irrelevant, as the OP can prove he has worked for the company via payslips and seeing as he has a valid WP the labour office can see he has paid tax/social security and has worked more than 12 months for the company, therefore the company cannot say he was working on a fixed 12 month contract and is not eligble for severance.

If the company decides not to renew his "contract" with the company they will be required to pay severance per the standard T&C's laid down in the labour act.

I checked and you are right. The severance pay for more than 1 year and less then 3 years is 90 days pay

[CBBK]

You are entitle to 90 day if you have been noticed a month in advance. If not noticed a month in advance, you are entitled to 1 month extra on top of the 90 days.

BTW, I had a terrible experience I like to share: 3 years ago the company I worked for came into financial turbulence. Out of 60 staff they fired about 4 people. Then they asked the rest of us to downsize salary 20 % because of the financial trouble they had. "Of course" all of us said yes to this as it seemed pretty obvious that the alternative was to get laid off.

So - here we went - accepted 20% less salary but THE DAY AFTER we received our first reduced salary, half of all staff also received a note we were laid off!!! Now - I was entitled to 7 month severance, but as severance is calculated ON YOU LAST PAY CHECK, I was paid 7 x salary with 20% LESS! At that time my salary was around 175,000 B. 175,000 x 7 - 20% equals 245,000 B he saved on me alone. What a b.....!

If was done by a cheap dirty Canadian company with a very dirty lawyer behind setting it all up!!

If this happen to you, always ask to ensure you severance with FULL amount before you sign any notes of reduces salaries.

[samran]

If you are fired for specific "offenses" you will not receive severance, but if the company lets you go ie makes you redundant then yes, you are entitled to severance pay per standard Thai labour law T&C's

Thanks, it would be a redundancy issue if it happens.

How soon after they make me redundant do they have to pay my severance?

Thanks again

Just playing devils advocate here, as I'm sure these questions would be asked by a labour tribunal.

If you don't have an employment contract, prove they have sacked you or made you redundant as opposed to you simply having finished your verbally agreed working period (which is what the company might cynically turn around and do) . Remember the onus is on you to show you have been unfairly sacked.

You don't have to be unfairly sacked - just made redundant for whatever reason (I guess all sacking's are unfair).

The labour court has shown itself time and again to be extremely sympathetic to workers rights - both Thai's and foreigners.

[racyrick]

http://www.aseanhrme...Act_of_1998.pdf

Thank you so much for the information and link.

It does say in Section 118 (2) if you work at least 1 year and less than 3 years, you are entitled to severance pay of ninety days wages or the previous ninety days wages prior to losing your job.

[london]

http://www.aseanhrme...Act_of_1998.pdf

Thank you so much for the information and link.

It does say in Section 118 (2) if you work at least 1 year and less than 3 years, you are entitled to severance pay of ninety days wages or the previous ninety days wages prior to losing your job.

Sadly Racyrick, you may not get anything due to lack of a contract.

Don't just think that you will get money.......but if you do, then regard it as good luck rather than an entitlement.

[Soutpeel]

http://www.aseanhrme...Act_of_1998.pdf

Thank you so much for the information and link.

It does say in Section 118 (2) if you work at least 1 year and less than 3 years, you are entitled to severance pay of ninety days wages or the previous ninety days wages prior to losing your job.

Sadly Racyrick, you may not get anything due to lack of a contract.

Don't just think that you will get money.......but if you do, then regard it as good luck rather than an entitlement.

Having a contract per se has no bearing on whether the OP gets severance or not....he can prove he is/was employed by the company by virtue of payslips/the DOL has records for the issue of his WP etc etc, and is not a case of luck....if he qualfies he is entitled to the money...luck plays absolutely no part in this...

[racyrick]

http://www.aseanhrme...Act_of_1998.pdf

Thank you so much for the information and link.

It does say in Section 118 (2) if you work at least 1 year and less than 3 years, you are entitled to severance pay of ninety days wages or the previous ninety days wages prior to losing your job.

Sadly Racyrick, you may not get anything due to lack of a contract.

Don't just think that you will get money.......but if you do, then regard it as good luck rather than an entitlement.

Just curious, you don't think the letter I have that guarantees my salary and states the start of my employment will do as well as my work permit along with my tax payments?

[london]

http://www.aseanhrme...Act_of_1998.pdf

Thank you so much for the information and link.

It does say in Section 118 (2) if you work at least 1 year and less than 3 years, you are entitled to severance pay of ninety days wages or the previous ninety days wages prior to losing your job.

Sadly Racyrick, you may not get anything due to lack of a contract.

Don't just think that you will get money.......but if you do, then regard it as good luck rather than an entitlement.

Having a contract per se has no bearing on whether the OP gets severance or not....he can prove he is/was employed by the company by virtue of payslips/the DOL has records for the issue of his WP etc etc, and is not a case of luck....if he qualfies he is entitled to the money...luck plays absolutely no part in this...

You and I have different experiences of what can happen here.

He MAY qualify and he MAY be entitled. This does NOT guarantee he will be paid.

He may be made redundant. This alone implies that the company is having a hard time financially. I doubt that their priority will be to pay redundancy payments.

Sadly, luck DOES play a part.

[Soutpeel]

You and I have different experiences of what can happen here.

He MAY qualify and he MAY be entitled. This does NOT guarantee he will be paid.

He may be made redundant. This alone implies that the company is having a hard time financially. I doubt that their priority will be to pay redundancy payments.

Sadly, luck DOES play a part.

That wasnt what you said....you said he may not get anything because of a lack of contract, which is not the case

[BigJohnnyBKK]

>> Need some help. I am a foreigner working for a company legally with a work permit etc. for over 1 1/2 years.

>> When I started, and still to this day, they have no probation period, no standard operating procedures, etc.

>>My question is, if they fire me, am I still entitled to the 3 months of my salary as severance? I have no employment contract, but I do have a paper showing the guarantee of my salary that I used to try and get credit cards and for immigration for my extension of visa based on my marriage to a Thai.

I am answering from hard-won experience on both sides.

You are entitled, regardless of the existence of a contract, that is irrelevant. Even if you had a limited-term contract, that is irrelevant. All that matters is that you were working for them for the required period of time, that you were terminated but not "for cause" (serious egregious violations of law, harming the company etc), and that you are not a teacher for a private school. Being a foreigner is irrelevant, as long as you were working legally (and even then some people say they've gotten help).

All you need is proof of regular income payments, payslips or tax records is fine.

Nothing to do with the Labor Dept, it's a special Labor Court - if you're in BKK, it's on Rama IV heading back toward Silom on the right from the Hualumphong station area, just a block after you go under the highway overpass.

The Labor Court will provide you with free assistance, they have English-speaking lawyers/clerks. It is the one institution I have found in the Thai legal system that is impervious to money/status/corruption, they are genuinely committed to helping employees get what the law states is coming to them.

In your case you are due 90 days + another month if they don't provide you with proper written notice more than 30 days before the ending of your last pay period.

The problem is if they don't want to pay, it can take 3+ months before the hearing, possibly dragged out for a total of over a year. And if the court orders them to pay but they don't can take even longer. But it costs you nothing to file - you will need to get the company papers listing the registered owner, but the clerks can help you with that, or of course your lawyer if you choose to get one. WIthin a day or two, the company will receive the notice to appear, and if you're lucky they might just pay out right away, especially if they value their reputation as a good employer and law-abiding company.

If you want your own private lawyer, they should do it for about B10-15K flat or a percentage - don't go over B20K even if it's on spec.

Good luck!

[racyrick]

>> Need some help. I am a foreigner working for a company legally with a work permit etc. for over 1 1/2 years.

>> When I started, and still to this day, they have no probation period, no standard operating procedures, etc.

>>My question is, if they fire me, am I still entitled to the 3 months of my salary as severance? I have no employment contract, but I do have a paper showing the guarantee of my salary that I used to try and get credit cards and for immigration for my extension of visa based on my marriage to a Thai.

I am answering from hard-won experience on both sides.

You are entitled, regardless of the existence of a contract, that is irrelevant. Even if you had a limited-term contract, that is irrelevant. All that matters is that you were working for them for the required period of time, that you were terminated but not "for cause" (serious egregious violations of law, harming the company etc), and that you are not a teacher for a private school. Being a foreigner is irrelevant, as long as you were working legally (and even then some people say they've gotten help).

All you need is proof of regular income payments, payslips or tax records is fine.

Nothing to do with the Labor Dept, it's a special Labor Court - if you're in BKK, it's on Rama IV heading back toward Silom on the right from the Hualumphong station area, just a block after you go under the highway overpass.

The Labor Court will provide you with free assistance, they have English-speaking lawyers/clerks. It is the one institution I have found in the Thai legal system that is impervious to money/status/corruption, they are genuinely committed to helping employees get what the law states is coming to them.

In your case you are due 90 days + another month if they don't provide you with proper written notice more than 30 days before the ending of your last pay period.

The problem is if they don't want to pay, it can take 3+ months before the hearing, possibly dragged out for a total of over a year. And if the court orders them to pay but they don't can take even longer. But it costs you nothing to file - you will need to get the company papers listing the registered owner, but the clerks can help you with that, or of course your lawyer if you choose to get one. WIthin a day or two, the company will receive the notice to appear, and if you're lucky they might just pay out right away, especially if they value their reputation as a good employer and law-abiding company.

If you want your own private lawyer, they should do it for about B10-15K flat or a percentage - don't go over B20K even if it's on spec.

Good luck!

Thank you Big Johnny and everyone else. You have all been very helpful. I appreciate all responses. Case closed

[nocturn]

Are you sure it's a lump sum 3 months severance?

I thought it is 1 month per year worked.

misposted

Edited September 28, 2011 by nocturn