Two Thai Men Fighting Extradition To Australia To Face Trial For Murder

[Wallaby]

What a pathetic excuse to say "Not get a fair trial because of racism" in Australia, Factually incorrect and their lawyer must be desperate or else he knows something about the Thai judiciary I dont know.. ? Yes Im sure he does, Another reason why NO government from the "developed world" should allow a foriegner to be extradited to Thailand for a "trial"

Out of curiosity, would you want to be tried in Thailand for murder of a Thai man? Or would you prefer to be tried back home?

Do you think you would get a fair trial in Thailand, as a farang accused of murdering a Thai? I think the concern about not getting a fair trial in a foreign country is a valid one.

That said, extradition should proceed in my opinion, because Australia is where the evidences are, and while they are innocent until proven guilty, proving them guilty should be given a fair chance. What kind of investigation could be done in Thailand for a murder in Australia? And the victim's family shouldn't be forced to fly to Thailand to seek justice for a crime committed in Australia

I dont disagree with you or the points you make however we are a very hypocritical mob.

Remember Schapelle Corby and the cries of 'bring her back" , 'she's not getting a fair trial', blah, blah blah. This was for a drug trafficker.

then remember the aussie boy sentenced to death in singapore IIRC because of drug trafficking? Asian australian boy FWIW. Quite sad i dont even recall his name dont you think?

Anything to do with aussie perception of one being more 'aussie' than the other?

Anyone claiming there isnt sufficient grounds to claim 'racism' in Australia is either ignorant or has their head buried in the sand.

Now you really are off on a tangent. I don't know many people that wanted Corby home because they thought she was innocent. Most wanted her home because they didn't think what she did was worth 20 years. I may also add that quite a few, not sure of most, but a lot of people consider the brother was the one that should be in gaol in her place.

I'm not so sure of the case of the oz lad sentenced to death in Singapore but just so you know, oz doesn't have the death penalty and the majority of people here think the govt should do whatever it can to get someone off the death penalty.

Heard of the Bali Nine? A couple of asians and aussies in that lot. The only ones getting any sort of sympathy are the ones, maybe only one now, that has the death penalty. The govt is doing all it can to get hist death sentence commuted, he's of asian decent or may even have been born in asia. Not many people really care about the others. So really you are clutching at straws with your claim of racism. Apples and oranges with the cases you mention.

[Misterwolf]

What a pathetic excuse to say "Not get a fair trial because of racism" in Australia, Factually incorrect and their lawyer must be desperate or else he knows something about the Thai judiciary I dont know.. ? Yes Im sure he does, Another reason why NO government from the "developed world" should allow a foriegner to be extradited to Thailand for a "trial"

Out of curiosity, would you want to be tried in Thailand for murder of a Thai man? Or would you prefer to be tried back home?

Do you think you would get a fair trial in Thailand, as a farang accused of murdering a Thai? I think the concern about not getting a fair trial in a foreign country is a valid one.

That said, extradition should proceed in my opinion, because Australia is where the evidences are, and while they are innocent until proven guilty, proving them guilty should be given a fair chance. What kind of investigation could be done in Thailand for a murder in Australia? And the victim's family shouldn't be forced to fly to Thailand to seek justice for a crime committed in Australia

I dont disagree with you or the points you make however we are a very hypocritical mob.

Remember Schapelle Corby and the cries of 'bring her back" , 'she's not getting a fair trial', blah, blah blah. This was for a drug trafficker.

then remember the aussie boy sentenced to death in singapore IIRC because of drug trafficking? Asian australian boy FWIW. Quite sad i dont even recall his name dont you think?

Anything to do with aussie perception of one being more 'aussie' than the other?

Anyone claiming there isnt sufficient grounds to claim 'racism' in Australia is either ignorant or has their head buried in the sand.

Now you really are off on a tangent. I don't know many people that wanted Corby home because they thought she was innocent. Most wanted her home because they didn't think what she did was worth 20 years. I may also add that quite a few, not sure of most, but a lot of people consider the brother was the one that should be in gaol in her place.

I'm not so sure of the case of the oz lad sentenced to death in Singapore but just so you know, oz doesn't have the death penalty and the majority of people here think the govt should do whatever it can to get someone off the death penalty.

Heard of the Bali Nine? A couple of asians and aussies in that lot. The only ones getting any sort of sympathy are the ones, maybe only one now, that has the death penalty. The govt is doing all it can to get hist death sentence commuted, he's of asian decent or may even have been born in asia. Not many people really care about the others. So really you are clutching at straws with your claim of racism. Apples and oranges with the cases you mention.

You just proved my point.

What does it tell you that we all have an opinion on Corby with a wide range of views, heaps of media coverage, etc, but neither you nor i can name the aussie that was sentenced to death and killed in singapore regardless of the fact we apparently find the death sentence so abhorrent in our country. Why is this you think?

You mention the Bali 9. I would suggest that the 'average' aussie would identify one of the non asian 9 before one of the aussie asian 9 in a pic. That Rush kid and that dyke have had a lot more coverage in the media than the asian/aussies who incidentally have been charged and sentenced as the ringleaders.

[ToffeEFCpower]

Australia can kick off right now if they like. Their AFP (Australian Federal Police) have their base in Bangkok.

[dancw3]

If the courts decide that because they are Thai they must be before a Thai court

Then all Australians should be sent back to Australia and not face a Thai Court for the same reasons

Isn't it funny we read of a Thai on the run in Cambodia that states he will not face a Thai court as they do not give true justice and her is happy to face an international court and if proved guilty is happy to face the decision now we have the complete opposite

Guess like my Thai Wife

Thais never do any thing wrong

ha ha

Don't know that it has anything to do with Thais. Generally when people are involved in legal proceedings they will go for the route that appears to be to their advantage, what ever it might be.. Nothing surprising in the above. AS for you Thai wife. I very much prefer my Thai wife to my first wife who was American. And to all my former western girl friends for that matter. Actually I remember that always right as a common theme with western women. God. Its amazing, all the Thai bashers who contribute to this forum If you don't like Thais, what are you doing here?

[Wallaby]

You just proved my point.

What does it tell you that we all have an opinion on Corby with a wide range of views, heaps of media coverage, etc, but neither you nor i can name the aussie that was sentenced to death and killed in singapore regardless of the fact we apparently find the death sentence so abhorrent in our country. Why is this you think?

You mention the Bali 9. I would suggest that the 'average' aussie would identify one of the non asian 9 before one of the aussie asian 9 in a pic. That Rush kid and that dyke have had a lot more coverage in the media than the asian/aussies who incidentally have been charged and sentenced as the ringleaders.

I don't know how I've proved your point. I think the Corby issue was simply because she was female, not a bad sort, her brother and father were involved in drugs, and she had the loudest obnoxious sister on the planet which made her a bit hard to ignore.

I still have no idea about the Singapore matter but how does that equate to being racist? I don't know of all people that get the death penalty. As for the Bali 9. I've heard of the girl, I think her name is Lawrence, I've heard of Rush and I've heard of Sukumaran (have no idea how to spell it). I don't have a clue of the other names or who they are. So I know of only 3 of them, how does that equate to racism?

David Hicks didn't exactly receive nice treatment. When the UK were getting their prisoners back our govt was letting him rot. Was that racist?

Don't forget, if a jury finds someone guilty the prisoner can then appeal on the grounds that, on the evidence presented, the jury made an 'unsafe' verdict. There are many instances of juries verdicts being overturned because the appeal court found that a reasonable person could not convict on the evidence presented.

So really, there are checks and balances. Not perfect, but it will do me until the perfect system is found.

I really think you are clutching at straws.

[Oberkommando]

What happened to presumption of innocence?

That went out the window when they fled back to Thailand just hours after the murder.

[Oberkommando]

Don't know that it has anything to do with Thais. Generally when people are involved in legal proceedings they will go for the route that appears to be to their advantage, what ever it might be.. Nothing surprising in the above. AS for you Thai wife. I very much prefer my Thai wife to my first wife who was American. And to all my former western girl friends for that matter. Actually I remember that always right as a common theme with western women. God. Its amazing, all the Thai bashers who contribute to this forum If you don't like Thais, what are you doing here?

There's a big difference between pointing out injustice and corruption and 'liking Thais.'

Someday you will hopefully learn to make that distinction when you have more time under your belt here (or maybe not, as there are many who have lived here years and take any criticism of Thailand as a personal insult).

The same people crying out for the extradition of Lee Aldhouse to Thailand to face justice are strangely absent on this thread. I wonder why?

[brandy]

What a pathetic excuse to say "Not get a fair trial because of racism" in Australia, Factually incorrect and their lawyer must be desperate or else he knows something about the Thai judiciary I dont know.. ? Yes Im sure he does, Another reason why NO government from the "developed world" should allow a foriegner to be extradited to Thailand for a "trial"

Out of curiosity, would you want to be tried in Thailand for murder of a Thai man? Or would you prefer to be tried back home?

Do you think you would get a fair trial in Thailand, as a farang accused of murdering a Thai? I think the concern about not getting a fair trial in a foreign country is a valid one.

That said, extradition should proceed in my opinion, because Australia is where the evidences are, and while they are innocent until proven guilty, proving them guilty should be given a fair chance. What kind of investigation could be done in Thailand for a murder in Australia? And the victim's family shouldn't be forced to fly to Thailand to seek justice for a crime committed in Australia

I dont disagree with you or the points you make however we are a very hypocritical mob.

Remember Schapelle Corby and the cries of 'bring her back" , 'she's not getting a fair trial', blah, blah blah. This was for a drug trafficker.

then remember the aussie boy sentenced to death in singapore IIRC because of drug trafficking? Asian australian boy FWIW. Quite sad i dont even recall his name dont you think?

Anything to do with aussie perception of one being more 'aussie' than the other?

Anyone claiming there isnt sufficient grounds to claim 'racism' in Australia is either ignorant or has their head buried in the sand.

I hope Corby dies in prison, that was the media calling for to be brought home. Everyone I know in Oz thinks she should rot where she is so don't let the media be your guide.

[Swiss1960]

I think there are many things to consider when we talk about such cases:

1) The main question is whether the country where the fugitive is held, does extradite his own citizens to other countries. Switzerland as an example never extradites Swiss citizens if the Swiss citizen does not agree in writing.

2) The second question is whether an extradition is possible under various circumstances. Switzerland extradites other fellows only with exceptions and restrictions, i.e. if the alleged crime is also punishable under Swiss law, if it is not politically motivated or when Switzeland has guarantees that their will not be a death penalty imposed / seeked on the fellow to be extradited.

3) The third question is whether a court procedure is possible, if the extradition is not granted. Swiss criminal law clearly states that Swiss courts DO investigate alleged crimes in foreign countries if not otherwise possible (i.e. extradition is not possible). The foreign country will need to cooperate with the Swiss federal or district attorney and the court hearing will be held in the district where the fugitive is residing / has been captured.

So really the question is whether Thailand does extradite their own citizens even if they object (they obviously do, otherwise their would be no court hearing) and if the will decide against extradition, the second question is whether they will pursue the criminal complaint from the Australian government in a Thai court.

Lee Aldhouse has one more problem... even if the British court will not extradite him to Thailand (maybe for humanitarian reasons...), the family of the US citizen can of course submit a criminal complaint in a US court... which would mean that there will be a second extradition request that then might be granted, if the US will commit to not pursue the death penalty...

[eljeque]

Have the two men been asked "Why did you leave Australia so quickly after the murder?"

[eljeque]

Was Australia too racist to allow them visas to enter the country?

Was Australia too racist to allow then to attend school?

Was Australia too racist to allow them to own cars?

Was Australia too racist to allow them to .....

What about all of the other Thai people living in Australia, is Australia too racist for all of them as well?

[Misterwolf]

Was Australia too racist to allow them visas to enter the country?

Was Australia too racist to allow then to attend school?

Was Australia too racist to allow them to own cars?

Was Australia too racist to allow them to .....

What about all of the other Thai people living in Australia, is Australia too racist for all of them as well?

So no racism in Australia then according to you?

Oh yeah its all hunky dory cobber aye?

You watch ACA and today tonight by any chance?

[eljeque]

The question is not that there is NO RACISM in Australia, the question is that should they be extradited or shouldn't they be?

All of my statements have to do with "Too Racist" not with "Not Racist" at any point in time concerning everything and everyone.

One can argue that every country is racist, so therefore, no countries should be able to put on trial anyone who is not native to that country?????

The two who did a runner did so in order to avoid going to court.

Their fear was of a fair and unbiased trial, as in Thailand, they can be assured to get an unfair and heavily biased trial, and not be convicted, or be released on bail forever.

[Oberkommando]

Plenty of Asian gang members in Aussie jails, no need to worry about discrimination, they are equally as worthless as the bikie gangs and other scum that end up there.

[Wallaby]

Lee Aldhouse has one more problem... even if the British court will not extradite him to Thailand (maybe for humanitarian reasons...), the family of the US citizen can of course submit a criminal complaint in a US court... which would mean that there will be a second extradition request that then might be granted, if the US will commit to not pursue the death penalty...

The US has no juridiction to request an extradition. Unless of course they can prove Aldhouse was in the US when he planned to go to Thailand to commit murder. I'm afraid it's either Thailand or nothing for Aldhouse.

[softgeorge]

What happened to presumption of innocence?

That went out the window when they fled back to Thailand just hours after the murder.

That they did. It was not direct to Thailand tho. As a member of the Victoria Police and one who has some knowledge of the case I can assure you that these two and the other two have quite a history in Melbourne. Everything being read here is not totally correct.

[eljeque]

Please add in anything else you are aware of, or any other articles from elsewhere, which are allowed to be posted.

[eljeque]

Thailand does extradite people to Aussie, and the USA in the case of the supposed Russian Arms Dealer

http://www.oneperth.com.au/2011/05/05/murder-accused-thai-extradited-to-perth/

News Source

www.oneperth.com.au

Murder charged Brit extradited to Perth

Posted on 05 May 2011. Tags: Crime

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STAFF REPORTER

WA detectives arrived in Perth from Thailand this morning with an extradited 49-year-old man charged with wilful murder.

Police spokeswoman Susan Usher said the man, a British Citizen from Edinburgh, allegedly murdered 24-year-old Andy Arthur Ball in Ellenbrook on or about September 10, 2002.

Ms Usher said that after the alleged murder the man drove himself to Perth International Airport in Mr Ball’s car.

He allegedly bought an air ticket and boarded a flight to Bali, never returning to Western Australia.

In ensuing years, WA police had unsuccessfully tried to find the man in the United Kingdom and Southeast Asia.

On August 3 he was arrested and charged by Thai authorities for alleged Thai immigration breaches.

After the arrest, WA police commenced extradition proceedings culminating in his arrest and return through Perth International Airport at 7.45 this morning.

The man is anticipated to appear in Perth Magistrates Court tomorrow.

[Oberkommando]

So what happened? The verdict was due today was it not?

[hehehoho]

Unless you're posting from 30th November 2011, then no.

[airconsult]

http://www.news.com.au/gallery-0-1225855575507?page=11

Personally I think they are worried about the third-world conditions in Barwon prison (a max-security in Victoria for very naughty people)
(see link for a high-security prison cell picture)