Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[uptheos]

Somehow I think the phrase "undesirable inconvenience" probably sums up their feelings.

But what a spectacular showing of inhumanity and ignorance even in the supposed apology!

Personally I would be more interested in seeing who paid for that humongous poster, not a cheap item.

Well said Sally, the apology is nothing more than an 'undesirable inconvenience'.

From the way the whole thing was put together, from having the correct swastikas and the place draped out like Nuremberg, I would say that this WAS NOT the kids idea at all, the idea came from the dear sister and colleagues and finances (from school fees) were allotted - so that's where the buck stops.

I think Thailand's Minister of Education (if they have one) should make a statement.

Edited September 28, 2011 by uptheos

[WarpSpeed]

from Sacred Heart School of Chiang Mai via Email

REF: Deeply Apologies

To whom this may concern,

On 23 September 2011, at Sacred Heart School of Chiang Mai has organized a sport day activity and it has been divided into groups of 7 different colors and amongst its various colors, there was the "Red" color group which was dressed up imitating some Nazi symbols. The purpose and motivation was to provide a sense of participation in much closer knowledge of being together for this particular "Red" color group. In fact, the main reason and desire behind of imitating some of these symbols was not to create any differences of damaging each individual image and identity.

We, the entire Sacred Heart School personal are deeply saddened by this incident which has caused much undesirable inconvenience. And we wish to extent our sincerity and our deepest regret towards all those who have provided us the utmost knowledge and are more aware of getting our teachers, staffs and students in fulfilling and realizing in the most respectful and civilize behavior in this society. We will be take more serious approach and provided more positive behavior for not creating any sure event in our school compound in anytime, anywhere.

We deeply and sincere apologies.

Yours respectfully,

Sr. Darunee Sripramong

Director of Sacred Heart School

Geeez! If that's the best English they can provide that is just as distressing ..

But gives an interesting insight into why English usage is so bad in Thailand, if this is what is coming out of a school director imagine what is being taught...

I was thinking that exactly.... With the exception that I was thinking along the lines of more like 'tragic' instead of "interesting"..

Edited September 28, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Thai at Heart]

Where does it say there was no scholarships offered, no donation of goods or money?

Its always easy and entertaining to condemn others based on our own conjecture, but others might take what you had said seriously. You should not over-estimate the intelligence of your readers

(easily done on this forum)

SC

Missed the link out. They state scholarships here, I was wondering since they bother to go all the way to the hills to see the hilltribes, (essentially a tourist day out) if they offer them any scholarships.

It says we go to learn. It makes make no mention of donations to.

For Sister Darunee Sripramong, head of the Sacred Heart School in Chiang Mai, because in Thai society minorities are marginalised and treated with condescension, “each year we have our students take part in outdoor immersion programmes. As part of this, they spend a night up in one of 10 to 20 hill villages. They bring their books and material but they also learn from the hill tribes; for instance, the way they cook rice and enjoy life.”

I would call the idea of privately educated school kids going to the mountains for a day to learn how "happy" the hill tribes are, the height of condescending behaviour.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/In-Catholic-schools,-young-Thais-are-educated-to-grow-in-society-16412.html

Then beyond this

http://www.thailandhilltribeholidays.com/How-to-Travel-Responsible-Thailand.html

The stories about how the hilltribes are exploited as a tourist attraction is well documented, so, one would wonder what this woman of the cloth is doing to prevent such exploitation by marching her pupils up there on a day trip to "learn" from them. The idea is to give to the poor, not to take.

Anyway, I would hope that the pupils are today busy ferrying the poor and infirm out of the impending flood, and preparing food packs to help out with the impending inundation.

[Thai at Heart]

The purpose and motivation was to provide a sense of participation in much closer knowledge of being together for this particular "Red" color group.

I guess they decided re-enacting last years riots in Bangkok, too controversial.

[WarpSpeed]

Of course, the American history that's taught in US schools is biased, and sometimes tends toward chauvinistic myth-making.

I'd go with that. They could do with dispelling the myth that you lot rolled up and saved everyone's ass. I'd posit not many over there know that Britain prevented their country from being taken by a superior air force in the Battle of Britain (WITHOUT the US) and that Germany declared war on the US. As great as the achievements of the US may be, the gung-ho 'we are the shit' attitude irritates many.

I call BS! Oh yee who would think yee so intelligent there was 3 squadrons of VOLUNTEER American pilots known as the Eagle Squadrons that served in the British airforce well before the country as a whole actually joined the conflict. They were key in helping Britain win the Battle of Britain..

Get your facts straight before spouting such tripe, it seems your education system is failing you just as badly or you were just asleep the day they taught the REAL facts in your class, in any case you're welcome on behalf of my dead father...

Eagle Squadrons

Apparently, there was 100-octane Av Gas from the U.S. that is one of those myths (Daily Mail): Battle of Britain U.S. Av Gas

Then the myth of the lend-lease program - 32 Billion to Britain is current dollar value (Wiki): US Lend-lease WWII

Roosevelt understood that to eventually invade Europe it was best to keep Britain from being taken by the Germans.

So one of the reasons commonparlance and jackr are not speaking German now (or even exist) is ...?

I won't bore them with the post-war Marshal Plan and the amount sent to Britain that was allegedly wasted (BBC): Wasted British Aid

I agree on educating lost causes. It's like banging ones head against the wall still the effort must be made and the wisdom applied. It does speak volumes about some and the sources of their education? Which is really ironic given the current context, maybe that explains Harrys actions as well? .. But yet they're oh so enlightened ??

[weary]

I would call the idea of privately educated school kids going to the mountains for a day to learn how "happy" the hill tribes are, the height of condescending behaviour.

I can see why you think that, but if you compare it to not giving a hoot, like most Thais, perhaps you'd be able to see that things have to start somewhere and will never be perfect at the outset. Also, you assume a lot of things that are not explicitly stated anywhere. It looks as if you are simply trying to pick as many faults as you can.

[MaxYakov]

The purpose and motivation was to provide a sense of participation in much closer knowledge of being together for this particular "Red" color group.

I guess they decided re-enacting last years riots in Bangkok, too controversial.

As well as the color-me-Red, Cultural Revolutionist Chairman Mao and his gang of ... how many was that again? Also a little too close to home - geographically and temporally - for comfort.

Edited September 28, 2011 by MaxYakov

[Thai at Heart]

I would call the idea of privately educated school kids going to the mountains for a day to learn how "happy" the hill tribes are, the height of condescending behaviour.

I can see why you think that, but if you compare it to not giving a hoot, like most Thais, perhaps you'd be able to see that things have to start somewhere and will never be perfect at the outset. Also, you assume a lot of things that are not explicitly stated anywhere. It looks as if you are simply trying to pick as many faults as you can.

Well whoopdeedoo.

The school either organises for you to go up into the hills, learn something about history and culture, and give to people with less than yourself, or it organises you to go up into the hills and "learn" from people living essentially in poverty.

All very religiously correct and beneficial for the hilltribes, kids and teachers alike no?

And I quote again

For Sister Darunee Sripramong, head of the Sacred Heart School in Chiang Mai, because in Thai society minorities are marginalised and treated with condescension, “each year we have our students take part in outdoor immersion programmes. As part of this, they spend a night up in one of 10 to 20 hill villages. They bring their books and material but they also learn from the hill tribes; for instance, the way they cook rice and enjoy life.”

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/In-Catholic-schools,-young-Thais-are-educated-to-grow-in-society-16412.html

She has trumpeted her schools achievements at a Catholic conference showing how the hill tribes are treated with condescension, and then she marches the kids up there to learn how they cook rice and "enjoy life". How f*****g quaint. I can just about bare millionaire thai politicians grinning in their Louis Vuitton wellies giving out rice ration packs to people (while they wai) who have just lost everything, but a statement like that is the absolute height of a condescending attitude.

But a person of the cloth sending privately educated kids to "learn" from oppressed hill tribers.

Not one word of, we stayed for a week and built a school with donations, we helped to put in an irrigation system, we helped to provide 1000 books, we took 100k baht of childrens clothes, we gave them 50k of farming tools, we offer 5 scholarships per year to the tribe, we go once a month to give out medicine. No we go for one day a year to learn?????? Is this the most ludicrous SRP program you have ever heard of or not?

The hypocrisy stinks. Outdoor Immersion Program = organised trip to remind us how bloody lucky we are in the world.

What did you learn kids? That the hill tribers get a very hard time of it and not too many people help.

Anyone interested in helping? No we are too busy learning how they cook rice and how happy they are to have so little.

Replace hill tribes, with starving ethiopians and see how it reads.

The godly care about the rights of the poor; the wicked don't care at all. - Book of Proverbs

Edited September 28, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[Kananga]

The purpose and motivation was to provide a sense of participation in much closer knowledge of being together for this particular "Red" color group.

I guess they decided re-enacting last years riots in Bangkok, too controversial.

As well as the color-me-Red, Cultural Revolutionist Chairman Mao and his gang of ... how many was that again? Also a little too close to home - geographically and temporally - for comfort.

There is absolutely no excuse why they could not have all worn ginger wigs and pranced around singing "Money's too tight to mention".

[rgs2001uk]

Lost in the discussion is the fact that Sacred Heart Catholic School is under the guidance an influence of the Roman Catholic Church. The RC has a very clear position on Nazis and the the events related to WWII: It abhors the event and considers the Nazi period to be one horrible sin. I'm not trying to start a debate on the Church, but am emphasizing that there can be no excuse for this event at a Catholic school because it violates the current position of the Church Having students parading about in nazi garb is an affront and rebuke to the Church. As such, the argument that the poor dears were ignorant or that the swastika is a good luck sign etc holds no water. The use of non Christian symbols, particularly those associated with practices and customs not consistent with Church teachings and positions is contrary to the Church doctrine, and are neither encouraged nor promoted by Church associated entities.

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic clergy needs to assert itself in this matter. Either the school is worthy of being called a Catholic School or it is not. At the very least, someone needs a smack across the head from a Sister Mary Margaret and needs to revisit the compulsory morals class and curriculum.

I suggest that you reconsider Pope XII's relationship with Nazi Germany. Pacelli had much to answer for. Are you aware that it was the Catholic Church that provided the escape route through Genoa for the Odessa organisation to filter high ranking Nazis to South America? The Catholic Church, much the same of the Nazis, is an engine of oppression. It should come as no great surprise that those indoctrinated students should pull such a stunt. Can you name just one prosperous Catholic country? Forget contraception ladies, just keep churning out more recruits for our faith and ignore your health, your financial situation and the world population crisis. Go on believing the mis-truths and lies we spread and keeping the money rolling in.

What chances that these stupid, ignorant, young people will surprise us next year and parade around pretending to be Hasadic Jews?

In a previous thread I said; sooner or later those with extreme right wing, anti Jewish, anti Catholic and racist views will make an appearance, they always do.

And it appears I was right.

Slowly but surely they are crawling out of the woodwork.

I do not know why the Mods haven't yet closed these threads because if they continue on too long, then they just become platforms for the extremists and political loons.

And please let me remind Thai visa that many comments being made on here, do contravene many of the rules.

Whether you agree with it or not, the history of the Catholic Church is well documented, thankfully for all to read and form their own opinions..

There is a difference between being anti Catholic and being anti the Church of Rome.

There are at least two posters on here with a knowledege of the Church of Romes history superior to mine, and we should be thanful for them for reminding those not as well informed.

I dont know how pointing out historical facts, however unpalatable you may find them can be considered contravening any rules.

For those wishing to read and form their own opinions the following link may be of some help,

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Goldhagen.htm

Should you wish to accuse the author of being anti Catholic, direct your comments to him.

The comments mentioned above, ' Are you aware that it was the Catholic Church that provided the escape route through Genoa for the Odessa organisation to filter high ranking Nazis to South America?', have already been documented in a book called The Dollar And The Vatican.

I find it strange that we shouldnt forget the attrocities committed by Nazis, yet some would rather we turn a blind eye to acts carried out by the Church of Rome.

[uptheos]

This comment from a blog site (Thai) says a lot. http://www.prachatai.com/journal/2011/09/37093

'Where it was not too bad. If I study the history of World War II. I know it's very emotional. Hitler took the Jews into the camp to detain people. Soviet soldiers were killed, burned houses and killed over the Gibraltar Games countless civilians is very bad. I will use it. The German. Nazi symbols are banned and illegal. Thailand, we never studied it seriously. Because we are one with the Japanese and Nazis'.

[uptheos]

What did you learn kids? That the hill tribers get a very hard time of it and not too many people help.

Well, I hope they went in the dry season otherwise they would get muddy shoes!

[Thai at Heart]

This comment from a blog site (Thai) says a lot. http://www.prachatai.com/journal/2011/09/37093

'Where it was not too bad. If I study the history of World War II. I know it's very emotional. Hitler took the Jews into the camp to detain people. Soviet soldiers were killed, burned houses and killed over the Gibraltar Games countless civilians is very bad. I will use it. The German. Nazi symbols are banned and illegal. Thailand, we never studied it seriously. Because we are one with the Japanese and Nazis'.

Indeed. We capitulated to save our ass from the same fate as the Philippines or the Chinese, and the Nazi's would have welcomed our superior beings with open arms. the level of delusion in this country is sometimes very very scary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

The historian Chalmers Johnson has written that:

It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians [i.e. Soviet citizens]; the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese.

Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers—and, in the case of the Japanese, as [forced] prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not Russia) you faced a 4% chance of not surviving the war; [by comparison] the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30%.[29]

[harrry]

What did you learn kids? That the hill tribers get a very hard time of it and not too many people help.

Well, I hope they went in the dry season otherwise they would get muddy shoes!

No problem....a bit of boot licking from the downtrodden will get them clean.,

[MaxYakov]

I would call the idea of privately educated school kids going to the mountains for a day to learn how "happy" the hill tribes are, the height of condescending behaviour.

I can see why you think that, but if you compare it to not giving a hoot, like most Thais, perhaps you'd be able to see that things have to start somewhere and will never be perfect at the outset. Also, you assume a lot of things that are not explicitly stated anywhere. It looks as if you are simply trying to pick as many faults as you can.

So do you think we can count on their taking that huge 'Nazism' banner to the Hill People who can find something actually useful to do with it? Maybe they should take the other Nazi regalia as well. Can't help wondering the risk of inadvertently spawning a Neo-Nazi movement in the Hills by such charitable activity.

Edited September 28, 2011 by MaxYakov

[F1fanatic]

One thing the Nazis have in common with the Thais is their reinvention of history to propagate a nationalist sentiment among the populus.

This cannot be repeated often enough. Its depressing the way Thais are even now taught that they are pretty much the 'pinnacle' of the world....

[uptheos]

Who is The Minister for Education in Thailand and shouldn't he/she be making a statement, especially at a time when PM Yingcluck is calling Thailand the 'hub of education'.

[uptheos]

So do you think we can count on their taking that huge 'Nazism' banner to the Hill People who can find something actually useful to do with it? Maybe they should take the other Nazi regalia as well. Can't help wondering the risk of inadvertently spawning a Neo-Nazi movement in the Hills by such charitable activity.

Stop Press:

Lisu and Akha people hold Nazi rally on top of Wawee!!

Seriously though I'm sure they could use it, they have little enough. Maybe the good sister could take it up to them on her knees, as penance?

Edited September 28, 2011 by uptheos

[rubin]

My child is attending a Thai school. She never heard of Hitler, Tojo, or World War II. She also never heard of Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire. She has no knowledge of world history at all. This will be her last year in the Thai school.

And so what, are you proud of it?

[uptheos]

My child is attending a Thai school. She never heard of Hitler, Tojo, or World War II. She also never heard of Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire. She has no knowledge of world history at all. This will be her last year in the Thai school.

And so what, are you proud of it?

Are you saying she's graduating or you are pulling her out ?

Edited September 28, 2011 by metisdead
Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes.

[Kananga]

My child is attending a Thai school. She never heard of Hitler, Tojo, or World War II. She also never heard of Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire. She has no knowledge of world history at all. This will be her last year in the Thai school.

And so what, are you proud of it?

Are you saying she's graduating or you are pulling her out ?

Think he's pulling her out. Lets just hope she's not 4 and this is just a knee jerk reaction.

[webfact]

Thai school under fire over Nazi parade

BANGKOK, September 28, 2011 (AFP) - A Catholic school in Thailand has apologised after students dressed up as Nazis for a sports day parade, drawing condemnation from Jewish rights campaigners.

Photos released by the US-based Simon Wiesenthal Center appear to show red banners with swastikas as well as smiling students wearing Nazi uniforms or saluting, some with swastikas painted on their faces.

A government official said Wednesday that, according to the Sacred Heart College in the northern city of Chiang Mai, the parade was organised by the students, who had not intended to cause offence.

"The school officially explained that it was an internal sports day and students who were in the red team wanted to give a surprise by using swastikas as the background since it's the colour red," said Charnwit Tupsuphan, secretary of the Private Education Commission, a government body.

"Both students and the school expressed their regret and apologised," he added. "I've instructed all schools to be more careful about this kind of issue and to use it as a lesson."

The Israeli embassy said it had received a letter of apology after contacting the the school.

"I think that really it was done out of ignorance, not out of bad intentions," Itzhak Shoham, the Israeli ambassador to Thailand, told AFP.

"Many people here in Asia are not aware of what happened in Europe," he added. "They tend to think that he (Hitler) was a hero and not a monster as he really was so I think it is important to strengthen the educational level."

In a statement on its website, the Simon Wiesenthal Center called for "immediate action against all those responsible for promoting and facilitating this disgraceful display", noting that a similar incident had taken place at another school in Bangkok in 2007.

"It is difficult to calculate the hurt such a display inflicted on survivors of the Nazi Holocaust and the families of all victims of Nazism," it said.

The school could not immediately be reached for comment.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-09-28

[rubin]

This is very strange and is smacks of total ignorance of WWII history and Nazi Germany. Don't these teachers read? If I am not mistaken, this is NOT the first time it has happened in Thailand.

Don't take it so seriously, it's only a fancy dress

Do you really think so, or are you just trying to make a joke here?

[MaxYakov]

My child is attending a Thai school. She never heard of Hitler, Tojo, or World War II. She also never heard of Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire. She has no knowledge of world history at all. This will be her last year in the Thai school.

And so what, are you proud of it?

Are you saying she's graduating or you are pulling her out ?

Pursuing a Doctorate in Archaeology at a Thai Uni, perhaps?

Edited September 28, 2011 by MaxYakov

[Thai at Heart]

The school could not immediately be reached for comment.

Just as well the AFP couldn't get hold of the English language printed apology and show it to the world. People would have been wondering whether it was a school for the linguistically challenged or not.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[uptheos]

The Israeli embassy said it had received a letter of apology after contacting the the school.

"I think that really it was done out of ignorance not out of bad intentions," Itzhak Shoham, the Israeli ambassador to Thailand, told AFP.

"Many people here in Asia are not aware of what happened in Europe," he added. "They tend to think that he (Hitler) was a hero and not a monster as he really was so I think it is important to strengthen the educational level."

Ho Ho, what a clever, slap in the face for Thai education, from an ambassador.

Edited September 28, 2011 by uptheos

[rgs2001uk]

The Israeli embassy said it had received a letter of apology after contacting the the school.

"I think that really it was done out of ignorance not out of bad intentions," Itzhak Shoham, the Israeli ambassador to Thailand, told AFP.

"Many people here in Asia are not aware of what happened in Europe," he added. "They tend to think that he (Hitler) was a hero and not a monster as he really was so I think it is important to strengthen the educational level."

Ho Ho, what a clever, slap in the face for Thai education, from an ambassador.

The next time I am being labelled anti (insert your choice), I wonder just how far the reply, "I think that really it was done out of ignorance not out of bad intentions," would fly?

[weary]

I would call the idea of privately educated school kids going to the mountains for a day to learn how "happy" the hill tribes are, the height of condescending behaviour.

I can see why you think that, but if you compare it to not giving a hoot, like most Thais, perhaps you'd be able to see that things have to start somewhere and will never be perfect at the outset. Also, you assume a lot of things that are not explicitly stated anywhere. It looks as if you are simply trying to pick as many faults as you can.

Well whoopdeedoo.

The school either organises for you to go up into the hills, learn something about history and culture, and give to people with less than yourself, or it organises you to go up into the hills and "learn" from people living essentially in poverty.

All very religiously correct and beneficial for the hilltribes, kids and teachers alike no?

And I quote again

For Sister Darunee Sripramong, head of the Sacred Heart School in Chiang Mai, because in Thai society minorities are marginalised and treated with condescension, “each year we have our students take part in outdoor immersion programmes. As part of this, they spend a night up in one of 10 to 20 hill villages. They bring their books and material but they also learn from the hill tribes; for instance, the way they cook rice and enjoy life.”

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/In-Catholic-schools,-young-Thais-are-educated-to-grow-in-society-16412.html

She has trumpeted her schools achievements at a Catholic conference showing how the hill tribes are treated with condescension, and then she marches the kids up there to learn how they cook rice and "enjoy life". How f*****g quaint. I can just about bare millionaire thai politicians grinning in their Louis Vuitton wellies giving out rice ration packs to people (while they wai) who have just lost everything, but a statement like that is the absolute height of a condescending attitude.

But a person of the cloth sending privately educated kids to "learn" from oppressed hill tribers.

Not one word of, we stayed for a week and built a school with donations, we helped to put in an irrigation system, we helped to provide 1000 books, we took 100k baht of childrens clothes, we gave them 50k of farming tools, we offer 5 scholarships per year to the tribe, we go once a month to give out medicine. No we go for one day a year to learn?????? Is this the most ludicrous SRP program you have ever heard of or not?

The hypocrisy stinks. Outdoor Immersion Program = organised trip to remind us how bloody lucky we are in the world.

What did you learn kids? That the hill tribers get a very hard time of it and not too many people help.

Anyone interested in helping? No we are too busy learning how they cook rice and how happy they are to have so little.

Replace hill tribes, with starving ethiopians and see how it reads.

The godly care about the rights of the poor; the wicked don't care at all. - Book of Proverbs

You cherry pick because you do not wish to look at the issue more broadly. Up to you. Some would say that charity is the worst form of condescension.

[kerryk]

Has the good Sisters response been apathetic enough and poorly worded enough to push this story onto international front pages?

I'd say if nothing really happens tonight the Nazi Nun has a chancing of making the big time.

[Kananga]

Has the good Sisters response been apathetic enough and poorly worded enough to push this story onto international front pages?

I'd say if nothing really happens tonight the Nazi Nun has a chancing of making the big time.

Her latest photo shoot. Swastika ka! You butterfly? Wai not?